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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 1:29 pm 
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Regarding Kimi's time at McLaren, they were very accommodating back then - they clearly realized they had top talent in their hands and did everything in their power to give him a car to succeed. For example I remember reading back when Montoya and Kimi were teammates they actually built different noses or front end or some such for the two cars in effort to give both drivers a car that suits their needs, because when Montoya came to the team he found the car optimized for Kimi horrible to drive. I don't think it was ever like that at Ferrari - in 2008 for example they made changes to the car mid-season that didn't really seem to fit Kimi's style - at the time he was still ahead of Massa in the standings, but instead of trying to optimize their car for their reigning world champion they decided on changes that perhaps made for a theoretically faster car but didn't seem to suit Kimi. I still believe if Ferrari had made some different choices back then Kimi would be 2 time WDC and 2009 would've also looked very different. Then again Massa came very close to WDC that year, so can't really fault Ferrari for their choices. There was also the whole fiasco of bringing back Schumi for 2008 as some sort of advisor on car development, and it always seemed to me Kimi and Schumi didn't get along very well. A bizarre move in every respect IMO, it's like telling your drivers we don't value your input but rather bring back a retired driver, especially considering one of the strengths of Kimi has always been his very keen feel on the car and his accurate feedback.

Some other driver more political astute / more interested in 'leading' a team would've probably made their voice heard better, that part is on Kimi, the other part is on Ferrari, they paid Kimi a lot of money and somehow I got the feeling back then after Todt leaved the team that they didn't really give Kimi the focus and trust he should've deserved as their reigning WDC, instead bringing back Schumi and just in general messing things up in a way Ferrari often seem to do when they 'loose it'. Maybe after Todt left there was an absence of leadership and they were used to having a driver like Schumi on board who was as involved as they get, while Kimi is quite the opposite.


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 5:55 pm 
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Good post, agree with you.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 6:10 pm 
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FastEdward wrote:
Regarding Kimi's time at McLaren, they were very accommodating back then - they clearly realized they had top talent in their hands and did everything in their power to give him a car to succeed. For example I remember reading back when Montoya and Kimi were teammates they actually built different noses or front end or some such for the two cars in effort to give both drivers a car that suits their needs, because when Montoya came to the team he found the car optimized for Kimi horrible to drive. I don't think it was ever like that at Ferrari - in 2008 for example they made changes to the car mid-season that didn't really seem to fit Kimi's style - at the time he was still ahead of Massa in the standings, but instead of trying to optimize their car for their reigning world champion they decided on changes that perhaps made for a theoretically faster car but didn't seem to suit Kimi. I still believe if Ferrari had made some different choices back then Kimi would be 2 time WDC and 2009 would've also looked very different. Then again Massa came very close to WDC that year, so can't really fault Ferrari for their choices. There was also the whole fiasco of bringing back Schumi for 2008 as some sort of advisor on car development, and it always seemed to me Kimi and Schumi didn't get along very well. A bizarre move in every respect IMO, it's like telling your drivers we don't value your input but rather bring back a retired driver, especially considering one of the strengths of Kimi has always been his very keen feel on the car and his accurate feedback.

Some other driver more political astute / more interested in 'leading' a team would've probably made their voice heard better, that part is on Kimi, the other part is on Ferrari, they paid Kimi a lot of money and somehow I got the feeling back then after Todt leaved the team that they didn't really give Kimi the focus and trust he should've deserved as their reigning WDC, instead bringing back Schumi and just in general messing things up in a way Ferrari often seem to do when they 'loose it'. Maybe after Todt left there was an absence of leadership and they were used to having a driver like Schumi on board who was as involved as they get, while Kimi is quite the opposite.


Yeah MS advised the to change the car in 2008 when Kimi won first 2 of the 4 races for Felipe :uhoh: and then just slipped away which should have been another title. Missed opportunity that year. I think his best was in especially 2nd half of 2009. 2nd half 2007 was also pretty good and got lucky in the end

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:37 pm 
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I don't understand Ferrari's approach to strategy today. Kimi's first stop was way earlier than Vettel's which took him off the ideal strategy that Vettel ended up with where he had reasonable medium tyres at the end. So he could have done exactly what Vettel did, but with the advantage of being 7s further up the road before the first round of stops. Was Kimi struggling with the softs when they bought him in?

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2016 10:41 pm 
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Ferrari's strategy was once again terrible for Kimi. He was consistently faster than Hulk and at the very least they should have ensured he didn't come out behind him when he pitted. Idiotic move. Kimi seems to get duff strategy after duff strategy these days.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:06 am 
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Seemed to me they just wanted to get him out of Vettel's way.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 6:49 am 
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Very much agree with that, they wanted Kimi out of the way.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 9:55 am 
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Seems to me Kimi's never been anything other than a team player before and has moved out of the way when previously requested to do so. They didn't need to pit him so that he'd come back behind Hulk. Yet another extremely poor strategy call from Ferrari


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 31, 2016 1:53 pm 
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Did anyone else notice something weird about Kimi's
neck after the race? I thought I saw some red markings when he was giving the post race interviews and it seemed he was covering them with his jacket.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2016 3:50 pm 
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https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2016/11/whats-behind-the-rise-and-further-rise-of-kimi-raikkonen-in-f1-2016/

pull/push rod the winning theory...


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 1:16 am 
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Can someone remind me which race it was and what year where Kimi started from the back in a McLaren and stuffed it into the back of a stalled car right at the start?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:13 am 
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flyboy10 wrote:
Can someone remind me which race it was and what year where Kimi started from the back in a McLaren and stuffed it into the back of a stalled car right at the start?

Spanish GP 2003


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:08 am 
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Yes it was crash with Jaguar. If you download this video you can see the crash in 2:42min http://www.mediafire.com/file/3el5womsdyl/the_rising_of_kimi_1.wmv

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:36 pm 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
FastEdward wrote:
Regarding Kimi's time at McLaren, they were very accommodating back then - they clearly realized they had top talent in their hands and did everything in their power to give him a car to succeed. For example I remember reading back when Montoya and Kimi were teammates they actually built different noses or front end or some such for the two cars in effort to give both drivers a car that suits their needs, because when Montoya came to the team he found the car optimized for Kimi horrible to drive. I don't think it was ever like that at Ferrari - in 2008 for example they made changes to the car mid-season that didn't really seem to fit Kimi's style - at the time he was still ahead of Massa in the standings, but instead of trying to optimize their car for their reigning world champion they decided on changes that perhaps made for a theoretically faster car but didn't seem to suit Kimi. I still believe if Ferrari had made some different choices back then Kimi would be 2 time WDC and 2009 would've also looked very different. Then again Massa came very close to WDC that year, so can't really fault Ferrari for their choices. There was also the whole fiasco of bringing back Schumi for 2008 as some sort of advisor on car development, and it always seemed to me Kimi and Schumi didn't get along very well. A bizarre move in every respect IMO, it's like telling your drivers we don't value your input but rather bring back a retired driver, especially considering one of the strengths of Kimi has always been his very keen feel on the car and his accurate feedback.

Some other driver more political astute / more interested in 'leading' a team would've probably made their voice heard better, that part is on Kimi, the other part is on Ferrari, they paid Kimi a lot of money and somehow I got the feeling back then after Todt leaved the team that they didn't really give Kimi the focus and trust he should've deserved as their reigning WDC, instead bringing back Schumi and just in general messing things up in a way Ferrari often seem to do when they 'loose it'. Maybe after Todt left there was an absence of leadership and they were used to having a driver like Schumi on board who was as involved as they get, while Kimi is quite the opposite.


Yeah MS advised the to change the car in 2008 when Kimi won first 2 of the 4 races for Felipe :uhoh: and then just slipped away which should have been another title. Missed opportunity that year. I think his best was in especially 2nd half of 2009. 2nd half 2007 was also pretty good and got lucky in the end


As a big Kimi fan at the time, I remember a poll coming up in here asking how many races would Kimi win in 2008 after he had those 2 wins from 4. The most popular answer was 8-10. Amazing how that car moved away from him. What a frustrating season, he spent the entire year in traffic due to not being able to heat the tyres up for 1 lap. Ferrari should have given him some better strategies to get him clean air (aggressive qualifying strategy). He was the faster car in the races.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 3:42 pm 
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lamo wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
FastEdward wrote:
Regarding Kimi's time at McLaren, they were very accommodating back then - they clearly realized they had top talent in their hands and did everything in their power to give him a car to succeed. For example I remember reading back when Montoya and Kimi were teammates they actually built different noses or front end or some such for the two cars in effort to give both drivers a car that suits their needs, because when Montoya came to the team he found the car optimized for Kimi horrible to drive. I don't think it was ever like that at Ferrari - in 2008 for example they made changes to the car mid-season that didn't really seem to fit Kimi's style - at the time he was still ahead of Massa in the standings, but instead of trying to optimize their car for their reigning world champion they decided on changes that perhaps made for a theoretically faster car but didn't seem to suit Kimi. I still believe if Ferrari had made some different choices back then Kimi would be 2 time WDC and 2009 would've also looked very different. Then again Massa came very close to WDC that year, so can't really fault Ferrari for their choices. There was also the whole fiasco of bringing back Schumi for 2008 as some sort of advisor on car development, and it always seemed to me Kimi and Schumi didn't get along very well. A bizarre move in every respect IMO, it's like telling your drivers we don't value your input but rather bring back a retired driver, especially considering one of the strengths of Kimi has always been his very keen feel on the car and his accurate feedback.

Some other driver more political astute / more interested in 'leading' a team would've probably made their voice heard better, that part is on Kimi, the other part is on Ferrari, they paid Kimi a lot of money and somehow I got the feeling back then after Todt leaved the team that they didn't really give Kimi the focus and trust he should've deserved as their reigning WDC, instead bringing back Schumi and just in general messing things up in a way Ferrari often seem to do when they 'loose it'. Maybe after Todt left there was an absence of leadership and they were used to having a driver like Schumi on board who was as involved as they get, while Kimi is quite the opposite.


Yeah MS advised the to change the car in 2008 when Kimi won first 2 of the 4 races for Felipe :uhoh: and then just slipped away which should have been another title. Missed opportunity that year. I think his best was in especially 2nd half of 2009. 2nd half 2007 was also pretty good and got lucky in the end


As a big Kimi fan at the time, I remember a poll coming up in here asking how many races would Kimi win in 2008 after he had those 2 wins from 4. The most popular answer was 8-10. Amazing how that car moved away from him. What a frustrating season, he spent the entire year in traffic due to not being able to heat the tyres up for 1 lap. Ferrari should have given him some better strategies to get him clean air (aggressive qualifying strategy). He was the faster car in the races.

To be fair, he was still within a shout after Hungary nut a blown engine the next race and an unfortunate going off right at the end in Spa pretty much ended his season. A brain fade at Singapore just underlined it. He does need to take some blame for his own demise I think!


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 8:53 am 
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Interesting discussion between Peter Windsor and Rob Wilson, who has been a long-term admirer of Kimi, about this season and Kimi's weaknesses with the current Pirelli tyres, namely the front ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GVAT5fcWeSM


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:10 pm 
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Bumb...its time to re-open this thread dont you think?
Well...I couldnt believe he is driving there at the age of 38, still doing reasonably well for a middle aged guy..but Australia hasnt never been his strongest spot. Anyways
..he said something mystic after the qualy. He said HE did something that he shouldnt probably have done after the q1. Any thoughts?


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 8:18 pm 
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appletree wrote:
Bumb...its time to re-open this thread dont you think?
Well...I couldnt believe he is driving there at the age of 38, still doing reasonably well for a middle aged guy..but Australia hasnt never been his strongest spot. Anyways
..he said something mystic after the qualy. He said HE did something that he shouldnt probably have done after the q1. Any thoughts?

No, I didn't see that. Odd


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:49 am 
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Zoue wrote:
appletree wrote:
Bumb...its time to re-open this thread dont you think?
Well...I couldnt believe he is driving there at the age of 38, still doing reasonably well for a middle aged guy..but Australia hasnt never been his strongest spot. Anyways
..he said something mystic after the qualy. He said HE did something that he shouldnt probably have done after the q1. Any thoughts?

No, I didn't see that. Odd


Probably just a tweak of front wing too much or something and got caught out somewhere maybe. I can't think of too much else you can do after Q1.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:47 am 
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Today he said it again after the race. He said that they made some kind of mistake with his setup during quali and they knew he was not going to be able to compete with the top three guys in the race. It was pretty much over after the quali.

He also said that they know what they have to do to make it better for the next race. I hope it is true.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:53 pm 
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TSA1981 wrote:
Today he said it again after the race. He said that they made some kind of mistake with his setup during quali and they knew he was not going to be able to compete with the top three guys in the race. It was pretty much over after the quali.

He also said that they know what they have to do to make it better for the next race. I hope it is true.

That is good to hear.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 2:27 pm 
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TSA1981 wrote:
Today he said it again after the race. He said that they made some kind of mistake with his setup during quali and they knew he was not going to be able to compete with the top three guys in the race. It was pretty much over after the quali.

He also said that they know what they have to do to make it better for the next race. I hope it is true.


Hire Alonso?


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:07 pm 
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GingerFurball wrote:
TSA1981 wrote:
Today he said it again after the race. He said that they made some kind of mistake with his setup during quali and they knew he was not going to be able to compete with the top three guys in the race. It was pretty much over after the quali.

He also said that they know what they have to do to make it better for the next race. I hope it is true.


Hire Alonso?


Nahh the car will just get slower. 8O :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 3:08 pm 
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today was a perfect example of why kimi is not a top line driver, not anymore anyway, and extremely frustrating to support. something slightly off with the handling on the ultras and he loses up to a second a lap. vettel alonso hamilton would have found a way to drive around it and get the pace. it reminded me of some races in 2014 where he was nowhere near alonso's pace (which wasnt as frequent as some would believe). it hasnt happened to this extent with vettel before in the previous 2 years.

saying that, his pace on softs was pretty good and didnt lose to much more to vettel. the fastest lap shows how much fuel saving was going on for me. that disappointing. was he really pushing at all?

i was hoping he was going to run a little longer on the ultras as he was doing pb's and then throw the supers on, but ferrari chose to get him out of the way which was fair enough on this occasion.

fully expect him to be right on the pace in china though.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 5:33 pm 
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He said they went for more understeering balance of the car after the practises for quali. It was a mistake as during the first stint with the ultrasoft tires the understeery nature just got worse. He knew already after quali it was a mistake. As he knows as well as us, he hates understeery cars. The car behaved better with softs.
They also know what to do next time around.
I am a bit confused tho why such a experienced driver goes to wrong route with the car.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 26, 2017 7:00 pm 
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Long time no see, appletree! (that rhymes too :] )

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:08 am 
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appletree wrote:
He said they went for more understeering balance of the car after the practises for quali. It was a mistake as during the first stint with the ultrasoft tires the understeery nature just got worse. He knew already after quali it was a mistake. As he knows as well as us, he hates understeery cars. The car behaved better with softs.
They also know what to do next time around.
I am a bit confused tho why such a experienced driver goes to wrong route with the car.

My guess would be that the adjustment was made to compensate for something else that Ferrari were seeing in a practice session, and then once they got into Q2 and started on the ultrasofts they realised that it was a mistake. I believe the weather was cooler for qualy than it was the rest of the weekend with the slight sprinkles and threat of rain, so perhaps that had something to do with it? This is the first time that the new compounds for this season have been used in Australia, and if I recall correctly Ferrari didn't run as much with the ultras in testing as some other teams did, so it's possible that they just ran into some unexpected tyre behaviour and it caught them out.

If that's so, hopefully it won't happen too often during the rest of the season; the more data they get on the tyres as it goes on, the less likely this sort of thing is to happen, I would think.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:24 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Long time no see, appletree! (that rhymes too :] )

Hiya! :thumbup: Cant stay away. Exiting season in hand. Nice to see you again.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 12:29 pm 
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Remmirath wrote:
appletree wrote:
He said they went for more understeering balance of the car after the practises for quali. It was a mistake as during the first stint with the ultrasoft tires the understeery nature just got worse. He knew already after quali it was a mistake. As he knows as well as us, he hates understeery cars. The car behaved better with softs.
They also know what to do next time around.


I am a bit confused tho why such a experienced driver goes to wrong route with the car.

My guess would be that the adjustment was made to compensate for something else that Ferrari were seeing in a practice session, and then once they got into Q2 and started on the ultrasofts they realised that it was a mistake. I believe the weather was cooler for qualy than it was the rest of the weekend with the slight sprinkles and threat of rain, so perhaps that had something to do with it? This is the first time that the new compounds for this season have been used in Australia, and if I recall correctly Ferrari didn't run as much with the ultras in testing as some other teams did, so it's possible that they just ran into some unexpected tyre behaviour and it caught them out.

If that's so, hopefully it won't happen too often during the rest of the season; the more data they get on the tyres as it goes on, the less likely this sort of thing is to happen, I would think.

Your right about that. They didnt run ultra softs much. Ferrari seems to be gentle to its tyres, anyways judging by the first race. Compared to Merc. Or then Mercedes was caught by surprising tyre wear .


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 1:49 pm 
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appletree wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Long time no see, appletree! (that rhymes too :] )

Hiya! :thumbup: Cant stay away. Exiting season in hand. Nice to see you again.

Welcome back, hope you'll be posting more than recently :)

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 4:24 pm 
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Why they didn't put Kimi on super soft on the last stint? Verstappen was faster then anybody on those tyres despite having a worse car...kimi entered one lap after Verstappen so why not do the same?!? I really don't understand Ferrari strategist...time and time again they failed to offer kimi a decent strategy...maybe he would have put some pressure on Bottas.
Anyway, he is past his best, seem so slow...


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 10:26 pm 
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There is an onboard of him at thr start of the race, think is in you tube, he was lifting a lot and seemed hessitant at turn ins for corners and a lot of sterring wheel imputs. Bottas just drove away, either he was having a bad day at the job or the car was not where he likes it


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 1:24 am 
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I wont panic until after China if the performance is similar. He was awful in Australia last year compared to Vettel too but came out strong in China. Combine that with his belief that he made a bad setup error (which I believe was genuine rather than an excuse) and I think he will be much closer to Vettel.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 28, 2017 4:48 am 
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PRFAN wrote:
There is an onboard of him at thr start of the race, think is in you tube, he was lifting a lot and seemed hessitant at turn ins for corners and a lot of sterring wheel imputs. Bottas just drove away, either he was having a bad day at the job or the car was not where he likes it

He said he had to do a lot of fuel saving, which would explain the lifting.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 7:58 am 
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Colesy917 wrote:
I wont panic until after China.
Why panic? What good will that do? :D

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 8:00 am 
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Covalent wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
There is an onboard of him at thr start of the race, think is in you tube, he was lifting a lot and seemed hessitant at turn ins for corners and a lot of sterring wheel imputs. Bottas just drove away, either he was having a bad day at the job or the car was not where he likes it

He said he had to do a lot of fuel saving, which would explain the lifting.

It's odd, though, because Vettel was pushing much, much harder than he was, especially considering he had to fight the turbulence from the dirty air of the car in front, but he didn't appear to have to fuel save anywhere near as much, if at all


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:44 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Covalent wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
There is an onboard of him at thr start of the race, think is in you tube, he was lifting a lot and seemed hessitant at turn ins for corners and a lot of sterring wheel imputs. Bottas just drove away, either he was having a bad day at the job or the car was not where he likes it

He said he had to do a lot of fuel saving, which would explain the lifting.

It's odd, though, because Vettel was pushing much, much harder than he was, especially considering he had to fight the turbulence from the dirty air of the car in front, but he didn't appear to have to fuel save anywhere near as much, if at all

Wouldn't the dirty air be detrimental to tyre wear only, not fuel consumption?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 11:47 am 
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Covalent wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Covalent wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
There is an onboard of him at thr start of the race, think is in you tube, he was lifting a lot and seemed hessitant at turn ins for corners and a lot of sterring wheel imputs. Bottas just drove away, either he was having a bad day at the job or the car was not where he likes it

He said he had to do a lot of fuel saving, which would explain the lifting.

It's odd, though, because Vettel was pushing much, much harder than he was, especially considering he had to fight the turbulence from the dirty air of the car in front, but he didn't appear to have to fuel save anywhere near as much, if at all

Wouldn't the dirty air be detrimental to tyre wear only, not fuel consumption?

well I'm no expert but I should have thought you'd be pushing harder if you're fighting to overcome an obstacle?


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 12:02 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Covalent wrote:
PRFAN wrote:
There is an onboard of him at thr start of the race, think is in you tube, he was lifting a lot and seemed hessitant at turn ins for corners and a lot of sterring wheel imputs. Bottas just drove away, either he was having a bad day at the job or the car was not where he likes it

He said he had to do a lot of fuel saving, which would explain the lifting.

It's odd, though, because Vettel was pushing much, much harder than he was, especially considering he had to fight the turbulence from the dirty air of the car in front, but he didn't appear to have to fuel save anywhere near as much, if at all

Wouldn't the dirty air be detrimental to tyre wear only, not fuel consumption?

well I'm no expert but I should have thought you'd be pushing harder if you're fighting to overcome an obstacle?

The way I imagine it is that the consumption is linked to how long you're on full throttle and since you're on full throttle mainly on straights, being in the wake of the car in front of you would actually decrease this time?
But I guess it depends on how much you're pushing.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:42 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Covalent wrote:
He said he had to do a lot of fuel saving, which would explain the lifting.

It's odd, though, because Vettel was pushing much, much harder than he was, especially considering he had to fight the turbulence from the dirty air of the car in front, but he didn't appear to have to fuel save anywhere near as much, if at all

Wouldn't the dirty air be detrimental to tyre wear only, not fuel consumption?

well I'm no expert but I should have thought you'd be pushing harder if you're fighting to overcome an obstacle?

The way I imagine it is that the consumption is linked to how long you're on full throttle and since you're on full throttle mainly on straights, being in the wake of the car in front of you would actually decrease this time?
But I guess it depends on how much you're pushing.

Yeah I have absolutely no knowledge on this whatsoever, but in my minds eye as a complete layman I'm imagining that pushing to stay close to someone and overcome all the turbulence etc is a lot more (fuel) demanding than cruising around. I can't really see how you can do the former while saving fuel!


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