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Circuit de Catalunya
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Author:  Toby. [ Mon May 14, 2018 3:38 am ]
Post subject:  Circuit de Catalunya

Pooey what a stinker of a race. Just about every year this circuit fails to deliver much in the way of entertainment. The layout to my eyes is just not conducive to close F1 racing, let alone overtaking. What is it about the track that repeatedly results in uneventful races? Does Spain have a better alternative venue? Is the racing so boring in other series that visit the circuit?

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Mon May 14, 2018 4:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

Toby. wrote:
Pooey what a stinker of a race. Just about every year this circuit fails to deliver much in the way of entertainment. The layout to my eyes is just not conducive to close F1 racing, let alone overtaking. What is it about the track that repeatedly results in uneventful races? Does Spain have a better alternative venue? Is the racing so boring in other series that visit the circuit?


I share Your sentiment. For me, this makes into the top 3 most boring races. It surely is the layout which is quite technically demanding & which doesn't allow close racing. Let this track only be used for testing but not for races. The Miami race next year may come at the price of axing Baku! 8O Seriously, Baku produces 1 of the best races, if not the best. Instead take away the Spanish Grand Prix.

I liked the Valencia track more than this but I know Valencia wasn't appreciated as well.

Author:  Glasnost [ Mon May 14, 2018 4:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

Motorland Aragón
Jerez

Not sure if they are grade 1 though. Surely either track would be better then Catalunya.

Author:  zack14 [ Mon May 14, 2018 11:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

Get rid of this {dismal} track!

Author:  Zoue [ Mon May 14, 2018 12:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

Glasnost wrote:
Motorland Aragón
Jerez

Not sure if they are grade 1 though. Surely either track would be better then Catalunya.

Algarve. That's Grade 1. Bit out of the way, though...

Author:  Covalent [ Mon May 14, 2018 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

I actually fell asleep during the race.

Author:  Yellowbin74 [ Mon May 14, 2018 12:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

zack14 wrote:
Get rid of this {dismal} track!


I agree with Martin Brundle - they need to do something about the final chicane.

If they fixed that, it might allow a following car to get close down the straight.

Author:  Jezza13 [ Mon May 14, 2018 12:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

Agree with all of the aove.

Cataluyna's a dump for producing exciting racing.

Glasnost wrote:
Motorland Aragón
Jerez

Not sure if they are grade 1 though. Surely either track would be better then Catalunya.


They're both grade 1 tracks but I'm not convinced Jerez would be an improvement. Aragon could be ok.

If rumours are right and Baku is the one to make way for Miami while borefest tracks like Catalunya survive then it'll be a travesty.

Author:  pc27b [ Mon May 14, 2018 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

with all the talk of changing the cars to allow better racing, there ought to be some talk with some of the track owners, about changing bits of the tracks.

Author:  jimmyj [ Mon May 14, 2018 2:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

pc27b wrote:
with all the talk of changing the cars to allow better racing, there ought to be some talk with some of the track owners, about changing bits of the tracks.

Great point. This isn't my fav either.

Author:  mikeyg123 [ Mon May 14, 2018 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

If you change all the tracks to aid overtaking you just end up with 20 very similar layouts. None of which has any flow. Catalunya is a fantastic, challenging circuit with a good mix of corners (butchered S3 aside). It's the character are the issue not the circuit.

Author:  Toby. [ Mon May 14, 2018 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

mikeyg123 wrote:
If you change all the tracks to aid overtaking you just end up with 20 very similar layouts. None of which has any flow.


Why do you presume so? There can't only be a couple of ways a track can be laid out to promote overtaking. There must be innumerable, the only obstacle thus far is discovering them.

Currently there are a variety of circuits on the calendar, offering a variety of opportunities to overtakes in a variety of ways. Presuming that creating overtaking opportunities relies on an explicit few characteristics that will inevitably result in racetracks with poor flow is just restricting track design without giving it the chance to show the fans otherwise.

Personally I'd favour a season of similar racetracks that supported excellent, close racing to a season of mixed venues that included mind-numbing events just for the purpose of bringing variety.

Author:  F1_Ernie [ Mon May 14, 2018 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

There's alot of circuits exactly the same as Spain, they need rain or a SC to spice it up, actually is there many tracks you can overtake in similar pace cars at the front? even China was terrible until the SC. Pirelli just make the racing even worse.

Author:  sandman1347 [ Mon May 14, 2018 2:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

They just need to change the track back to how it used to be. Get rid of the chicane in sector three and you'll have a much better circuit.

The following circuits need to be looked at very carefully:
1. Australia
2. Barcelona
3. Monaco (probably not much you can do here)
4. Hungary
5. Singapore
6. Abu Dhabi

These circduits seem to consistently produce boring races as they are consistently difficult to overtake on. Subtle changes to the layout might fix this in at least 4 of these circuits. Monaco is a tricky one and I'm not sure what can be done there but certainly the other circuits can be improved and only complacency is preventing that from happening.

Author:  F1_Ernie [ Mon May 14, 2018 2:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

sandman1347 wrote:
They just need to change the track back to how it used to be. Get rid of the chicane in sector three and you'll have a much better circuit.

The following circuits need to be looked at very carefully:
1. Australia
2. Barcelona
3. Monaco (probably not much you can do here)
4. Hungary
5. Singapore
6. Abu Dhabi

These circduits seem to consistently produce boring races as they are consistently difficult to overtake on. Subtle changes to the layout might fix this in at least 4 of these circuits. Monaco is a tricky one and I'm not sure what can be done there but certainly the other circuits can be improved and only complacency is preventing that from happening.


I would add Suzuka, you can't overtake there. Russia just needs to go full stop.

Author:  cmberry20 [ Mon May 14, 2018 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

Actually, I've got a simple solution to fixing alot of tracks - no run offs. Just a curb and then gravel.

This stops the cars from running wide, no more 'unfair track limits - he gained an advantage etc' and it seperates the boys from the men, certain drivers can push to the very limit and make it stick - Senna, Schumi, Alonso. You can pressure the driver in front to make a mistake.

But I surpose the Safety Brigade with have conerns about it.

Author:  sandman1347 [ Mon May 14, 2018 3:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

cmberry20 wrote:
Actually, I've got a simple solution to fixing alot of tracks - no run offs. Just a curb and then gravel.

This stops the cars from running wide, no more 'unfair track limits - he gained an advantage etc' and it seperates the boys from the men, certain drivers can push to the very limit and make it stick - Senna, Schumi, Alonso. You can pressure the driver in front to make a mistake.

But I surpose the Safety Brigade with have conerns about it.

That won't make any impact on overtaking/racing

Author:  cmberry20 [ Mon May 14, 2018 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

I dunno, it rewards the brave & punishes mistakes. I'm not saying its the magic bullet, but most modern tracks have these great big run offs that dont discourage the driver to slow down because they know nothing happens if they run wide (put two tyres on the artifical grass)

Author:  ohwell [ Mon May 14, 2018 3:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

Agree. Halfway through the race you pretty much knew what the end result was gonna be for the to 5-6 places. Of course not accounting for the fact that Ferrari love screwing up their own races. Snoozefest. Couldn't wait to turn the television from formula one to IPL.

Author:  Siao7 [ Mon May 14, 2018 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

cmberry20 wrote:
I dunno, it rewards the brave & punishes mistakes. I'm not saying its the magic bullet, but most modern tracks have these great big run offs that dont discourage the driver to slow down because they know nothing happens if they run wide (put two tyres on the artifical grass)


I think the idea is that the car that goes off is going to lose time and hence lose position (if ahead), without taking the car out of action or risk damaging it by slamming it against a wall or gravel trap. At least that's what it would normally happen, sometimes the drivers gain an advantage which they'd have to give back anyway. Would you prefer a race where say only 6 cars were left running or a full grid?

Also, as Sandman mentions, the run off areas do not have much impact on the overtaking issues

Author:  ohwell [ Mon May 14, 2018 3:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

Siao7 wrote:
cmberry20 wrote:
I dunno, it rewards the brave & punishes mistakes. I'm not saying its the magic bullet, but most modern tracks have these great big run offs that dont discourage the driver to slow down because they know nothing happens if they run wide (put two tyres on the artifical grass)


I think the idea is that the car that goes off is going to lose time and hence lose position (if ahead), without taking the car out of action or risk damaging it by slamming it against a wall or gravel trap. At least that's what it would normally happen, sometimes the drivers gain an advantage which they'd have to give back anyway. Would you prefer a race where say only 6 cars were left running or a full grid?

Also, as Sandman mentions, the run off areas do not have much impact on the overtaking issues


I much rather prefer gravel traps. Why make it easy or more forgiving when drivers make mistakes that in the past would have meant retirement. Then they talk about successive points scoring records and all that bs which means nothing when comparing current day f1 to yesteryears. Anyway off topic I guess.

Author:  Siao7 [ Mon May 14, 2018 4:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

ohwell wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
cmberry20 wrote:
I dunno, it rewards the brave & punishes mistakes. I'm not saying its the magic bullet, but most modern tracks have these great big run offs that dont discourage the driver to slow down because they know nothing happens if they run wide (put two tyres on the artifical grass)


I think the idea is that the car that goes off is going to lose time and hence lose position (if ahead), without taking the car out of action or risk damaging it by slamming it against a wall or gravel trap. At least that's what it would normally happen, sometimes the drivers gain an advantage which they'd have to give back anyway. Would you prefer a race where say only 6 cars were left running or a full grid?

Also, as Sandman mentions, the run off areas do not have much impact on the overtaking issues


I much rather prefer gravel traps. Why make it easy or more forgiving when drivers make mistakes that in the past would have meant retirement. Then they talk about successive points scoring records and all that bs which means nothing when comparing current day f1 to yesteryears. Anyway off topic I guess.


Agreed about the comparisons, but to have cars running is better for TV and cheaper for the teams I guess, plus less time for Safety Cars to retrieve stranded cars, etc. The loss of speed - and hence position(s) - should be punishiment enough.

That's my take on why they have them, I am not sure if this is the real reason of course.

Author:  Mercedes-Benz [ Mon May 14, 2018 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

It has always been like that. Boring track for racing but good for teams to test their package.

Author:  paul_gmb [ Mon May 14, 2018 4:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

only the last corner is a problem. The track was modified for overtaking in another car era.

Back then, less downforce and driving to the tire life meant the adjustments were enough. Now it needs redesign again.

There is not a lot of space around the last corner, but heavily modifying the pit entry and then readjusting the last corner should do it.

Author:  mikeyg123 [ Mon May 14, 2018 4:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

sandman1347 wrote:
They just need to change the track back to how it used to be. Get rid of the chicane in sector three and you'll have a much better circuit.

The following circuits need to be looked at very carefully:
1. Australia
2. Barcelona
3. Monaco (probably not much you can do here)
4. Hungary
5. Singapore
6. Abu Dhabi

These circduits seem to consistently produce boring races as they are consistently difficult to overtake on. Subtle changes to the layout might fix this in at least 4 of these circuits. Monaco is a tricky one and I'm not sure what can be done there but certainly the other circuits can be improved and only complacency is preventing that from happening.


Abu Dhabi aside they are all great tracks. We surely don't want every track to be long straight, hair pin, long straight, hair pin. There's no flow. Tracks like Budapest or Catalunya flow beautifully and tbf Budapest has definitely produced good races on a par with most other tracks over the last decade or so.

Author:  Zazu [ Mon May 14, 2018 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

1. Australia
2. Barcelona
3. Monaco (probably not much you can do here)
4. Hungary
5. Singapore
6. Abu Dhabi

Abu Dhabi aside, all on F1 PS4 are great to drive.

Any track where they have 2 weeks of testing is going to be boring. F2 shows its the F1 cars themselves that are the main problem

Everyone raves about Baku, the race was mainly spiced up by a bunch of safety cars

Author:  Cold Gin [ Wed May 16, 2018 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

The changes made to this from an F1 perspective were done for safety purposes. With the fast corners this track has, these High downforce cars struggle to stay close, and that’s the main reason there are real boring races here. The old layout’s last two corners were real quick too—enjoyable to watch one car on the edge of adhesion but they chopped it and put in the chicane because the cars were getting too fast. Same deal with the back straight which was shortened. The chicane is a travesty for sure.

I wish they’d drop this for Aragon.

Author:  Cold Gin [ Wed May 16, 2018 11:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

The changes made to this from an F1 perspective were done for safety purposes. With the fast corners this track has, these High downforce cars struggle to stay close, and that’s the main reason there are real boring races here. The old layout’s last two corners were real quick too—enjoyable to watch one car on the edge of adhesion but they chopped it and put in the chicane because the cars were getting too fast. Same deal with the back straight which was shortened. The chicane is a travesty for sure.

I wish they’d drop this for Aragon.

Author:  Alex53 [ Wed May 16, 2018 2:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

Both Montmeló and Jerez are good layouts. The problem is more in Formula 1 cars than in the circuits.

Author:  emb1496 [ Sat May 26, 2018 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Circuit de Catalunya

Toby. wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
If you change all the tracks to aid overtaking you just end up with 20 very similar layouts. None of which has any flow.


Why do you presume so? There can't only be a couple of ways a track can be laid out to promote overtaking. There must be innumerable, the only obstacle thus far is discovering them.

Currently there are a variety of circuits on the calendar, offering a variety of opportunities to overtakes in a variety of ways. Presuming that creating overtaking opportunities relies on an explicit few characteristics that will inevitably result in racetracks with poor flow is just restricting track design without giving it the chance to show the fans otherwise.

Personally I'd favour a season of similar racetracks that supported excellent, close racing to a season of mixed venues that included mind-numbing events just for the purpose of bringing variety.

You just described oval racing... Not going to go so far as to say stock car but c'mon man. None of us want that.

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