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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 3:07 am 
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There's too many accidents because of "cool" tires.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 3:33 am 
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I thought of this during the last race as well. Mercedes may want their road car leading the pack for marketing reasons, but it's just not fast enough to keep heat in the tyres of the F1 cars. Maybe a proper GT variant?

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 6:14 am 
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Why not do away with the SC and have the lead car drive to a delta, while still bunching up those behind


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:22 am 
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Isn't that just a virtual safety car?


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:29 am 
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I don't care that it's too slow, let the drivers handle the colder tyres, these are (some) of the worlds best drivers and should be able to handle it. What bothers me is that the SC periods seem to get longer and longer.
Some teams should really like that since some engines use more fuel than others...

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:30 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Isn't that just a virtual safety car?

not if only the lead car drives to a delta. It effectively becomes the SC. The rest will catch up to him as per normal SC conditions and then follow behind. Point is the delta could be a little quicker than the current SC manages.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:40 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Isn't that just a virtual safety car?

not if only the lead car drives to a delta. It effectively becomes the SC. The rest will catch up to him as per normal SC conditions and then follow behind. Point is the delta could be a little quicker than the current SC manages.


SC Driver can be trusted to run around the track with nothing but safety and the incident in mind. An F1 Driver can be trusted to somehow, someway, try to gain an advantage and shouldn't be responsible for directing cars through 'clean' track.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:44 am 
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Exediron wrote:
I thought of this during the last race as well. Mercedes may want their road car leading the pack for marketing reasons, but it's just not fast enough to keep heat in the tyres of the F1 cars. Maybe a proper GT variant?


I'm not sure how much they want team radios, including their own drivers, to be saying words to the effect of "this Mercedes road car isn't quick enough"...

But isn't the current safety car a proper GT variant? I know nothing about this stuff, I just assumed so with there being a GT model name + being some 'Track Package' variant.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 7:55 am 
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They could create an actual F1 car, with relatively basic aero and use it as a safety car.

Or use something like a GP2 car.

Is there a reason the safety car can't be open-wheel?


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:24 am 
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ptr250 wrote:
There's too many accidents because of "cool" tires.
F1 doesn't need a safety car in the first place, but you raise a valid point. I would say F1 needs proper tyres.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:32 am 
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If you go with a GP2 doesn't it need tyre temperature to 'stick', would be slightly embarrassing if the safety car crashed leading the pack due to lack of adhesion!!


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:39 am 
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Ennis wrote:
Exediron wrote:
I thought of this during the last race as well. Mercedes may want their road car leading the pack for marketing reasons, but it's just not fast enough to keep heat in the tyres of the F1 cars. Maybe a proper GT variant?

I'm not sure how much they want team radios, including their own drivers, to be saying words to the effect of "this Mercedes road car isn't quick enough"...

But isn't the current safety car a proper GT variant? I know nothing about this stuff, I just assumed so with there being a GT model name + being some 'Track Package' variant.

It has GT in the name, but it's still a road car. I was thinking more of a WEC GT class car (GT3 I believe is where Mercedes races) which is bound to be a good deal faster.

Or failing that, they could use their new hypercar - if it's quick enough that Lewis Hamilton doesn't complain all the time, that's a great advertisement right there! 8)

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 8:59 am 
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Ennis wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Isn't that just a virtual safety car?

not if only the lead car drives to a delta. It effectively becomes the SC. The rest will catch up to him as per normal SC conditions and then follow behind. Point is the delta could be a little quicker than the current SC manages.


SC Driver can be trusted to run around the track with nothing but safety and the incident in mind. An F1 Driver can be trusted to somehow, someway, try to gain an advantage and shouldn't be responsible for directing cars through 'clean' track.

It's impossible for the lead driver to gain an advantage if he is the only one driving to a delta. All the cars behind him would be driving in exactly the same way as they do now behind a SC, and the max speeds would be significantly slower than racing speeds anyway. All that would change is that you would effectively have an F1 car being the "new" SC, instead of a GT car that clearly can't go fast enough


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:13 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Isn't that just a virtual safety car?

not if only the lead car drives to a delta. It effectively becomes the SC. The rest will catch up to him as per normal SC conditions and then follow behind. Point is the delta could be a little quicker than the current SC manages.


SC Driver can be trusted to run around the track with nothing but safety and the incident in mind. An F1 Driver can be trusted to somehow, someway, try to gain an advantage and shouldn't be responsible for directing cars through 'clean' track.

It's impossible for the lead driver to gain an advantage if he is the only one driving to a delta. All the cars behind him would be driving in exactly the same way as they do now behind a SC, and the max speeds would be significantly slower than racing speeds anyway. All that would change is that you would effectively have an F1 car being the "new" SC, instead of a GT car that clearly can't go fast enough


Driving to a Delta isn't enough, though. I would assume (and hope) there are instructions being fed to the safety car driver related to marshals on track, preparation for different scenarios of what could go wrong and where, etc.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:49 am 
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Ennis wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Isn't that just a virtual safety car?

not if only the lead car drives to a delta. It effectively becomes the SC. The rest will catch up to him as per normal SC conditions and then follow behind. Point is the delta could be a little quicker than the current SC manages.


SC Driver can be trusted to run around the track with nothing but safety and the incident in mind. An F1 Driver can be trusted to somehow, someway, try to gain an advantage and shouldn't be responsible for directing cars through 'clean' track.

It's impossible for the lead driver to gain an advantage if he is the only one driving to a delta. All the cars behind him would be driving in exactly the same way as they do now behind a SC, and the max speeds would be significantly slower than racing speeds anyway. All that would change is that you would effectively have an F1 car being the "new" SC, instead of a GT car that clearly can't go fast enough


Driving to a Delta isn't enough, though. I would assume (and hope) there are instructions being fed to the safety car driver related to marshals on track, preparation for different scenarios of what could go wrong and where, etc.

Drivers have radios. And flags could be a backup. There’s nothing that’s insurmountable. After all, they already have to navigate hazards with. VSC


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 10:58 am 
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I'm with Fiki, we need a different tyre solution. I would not be upset if there were a faster safety car though.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:03 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Isn't that just a virtual safety car?

not if only the lead car drives to a delta. It effectively becomes the SC. The rest will catch up to him as per normal SC conditions and then follow behind. Point is the delta could be a little quicker than the current SC manages.


SC Driver can be trusted to run around the track with nothing but safety and the incident in mind. An F1 Driver can be trusted to somehow, someway, try to gain an advantage and shouldn't be responsible for directing cars through 'clean' track.

It's impossible for the lead driver to gain an advantage if he is the only one driving to a delta. All the cars behind him would be driving in exactly the same way as they do now behind a SC, and the max speeds would be significantly slower than racing speeds anyway. All that would change is that you would effectively have an F1 car being the "new" SC, instead of a GT car that clearly can't go fast enough


I few issues I have with this idea.

* Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't Mylander have a side kick in the car with him? There must be a reason why there needs to be 2 people in the safety car. In this case, that's one more that can currently fit in an F1 car. If we can dispose of the sidekick then why does there need to be one now?

* I'd guess there'd be regular communication between Mylander & race control during a safety car period. If the lead driver was to become the "safety car", not only would the driver have to communicate with this team about monitoring the car but also race control as well monitoring the situation. I can see a potential conflict between the drivers team and race control over information priorities.

* Say the safety period is called during a rain event. ATM race control can rely on non partisan info from the safety car. Get rid of the safety car and I guarantee the lead driver will be providing info that best suits his situation.

* If it's up to the lead driver to drive to the delta and determine the pace as the "safety car", then if the pack went quicker than the time delta allowed, wouldn't it be the lead driver alone who would incur a penalty? After all, every car behind would just say they were keeping up with the safety car. Doesn't really seem fair to me.

I'm not sure what a reasonable solution would be but I don't think getting rid of the safety car as it is now and putting the responsibility of that job onto the lead driver is the right way to go.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:03 am 
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Centauri wrote:
They could create an actual F1 car, with relatively basic aero and use it as a safety car.

Or use something like a GP2 car.

Is there a reason the safety car can't be open-wheel?

The safety car is supposed to be relatively slow...Having a GP2 car at full chat would not be particularly safe if there is a bad accident somewhere on the track.

The problem IMO isn't that the safety car is too slow. It's that the current cars are too fast and the current tires are too sensitive. The cars are like 6 seconds quicker than they were in 2014 but the safety car is the same speed.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:17 am 
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Fiki wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
There's too many accidents because of "cool" tires.
F1 doesn't need a safety car in the first place, but you raise a valid point. I would say F1 needs proper tyres.

The alternative to safety car is stopping the race.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:23 am 
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dizlexik wrote:
Fiki wrote:
ptr250 wrote:
There's too many accidents because of "cool" tires.
F1 doesn't need a safety car in the first place, but you raise a valid point. I would say F1 needs proper tyres.

The alternative to safety car is stopping the race.


It's one of the alternatives.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:33 am 
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jimmyj wrote:
I'm with Fiki, we need a different tyre solution. I would not be upset if there were a faster safety car though.
Glad you are with me on the tyres. But think about it; safety is not increased if cars pass an incident at greater speed, which on top of that may increase the number of times they pass that incident site. (Regardless of how much all those laps behind the SC reduce proper racing.)

If F1 is supposed to be road relevant, then it should make proper tyres mandatory. In the era before downforce, Jim Clark once competed in three Grands Prix on the same set of tyres. These days, tyres aren't even allowed to be used for a whole race, let alone more than one. This nonsense should be stopped by the FIA.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:36 am 
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I remember when the safety car used to be a bloody Clio!!!!!!!!

I'm with sandman on this, the safety car can't go faster, it defies the whole idea to slow the cars down.


Fiki, when you say F1 needs proper tyres, what do you mean? What is a proper tyre? That they don't get cold easily or maybe that they don't need so much warming up?

All in all, until a proper alternative is presented, there is no way they will take the SC away, I can't see it


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 11:56 am 
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I read that if the SC ran full slick racing tyres it would be well over 5 seconds per lap quicker. But they are on all weather tyres in case it rains. Maybe they could run it on slicks when they know it will be dry.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 12:05 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
I remember when the safety car used to be a bloody Clio!!!!!!!!

I'm with sandman on this, the safety car can't go faster, it defies the whole idea to slow the cars down.


Fiki, when you say F1 needs proper tyres, what do you mean? What is a proper tyre? That they don't get cold easily or maybe that they don't need so much warming up?

All in all, until a proper alternative is presented, there is no way they will take the SC away, I can't see it
If you stick with the current "race format" including the use of a SC, then the tyres should be made to be able to deal with heat cycles better. Heating up, gowing colder during a SC period, heating up again, potentially going through a second SC period. It should not be a problem, especially not with the levels of downforce they have on the cars now. I was really surprised by the number of problems we saw during the race this weekend. While the modification by Pirelli may not have had a direct influence, it was worrying. I would say the problem is even more pressing if the modification didn't have a direct influence on last Sunday.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:05 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Ennis wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Isn't that just a virtual safety car?

not if only the lead car drives to a delta. It effectively becomes the SC. The rest will catch up to him as per normal SC conditions and then follow behind. Point is the delta could be a little quicker than the current SC manages.


SC Driver can be trusted to run around the track with nothing but safety and the incident in mind. An F1 Driver can be trusted to somehow, someway, try to gain an advantage and shouldn't be responsible for directing cars through 'clean' track.

It's impossible for the lead driver to gain an advantage if he is the only one driving to a delta. All the cars behind him would be driving in exactly the same way as they do now behind a SC, and the max speeds would be significantly slower than racing speeds anyway. All that would change is that you would effectively have an F1 car being the "new" SC, instead of a GT car that clearly can't go fast enough


I few issues I have with this idea.

* Correct me if i'm wrong but doesn't Mylander have a side kick in the car with him? There must be a reason why there needs to be 2 people in the safety car. In this case, that's one more that can currently fit in an F1 car. If we can dispose of the sidekick then why does there need to be one now?

* I'd guess there'd be regular communication between Mylander & race control during a safety car period. If the lead driver was to become the "safety car", not only would the driver have to communicate with this team about monitoring the car but also race control as well monitoring the situation. I can see a potential conflict between the drivers team and race control over information priorities.

* Say the safety period is called during a rain event. ATM race control can rely on non partisan info from the safety car. Get rid of the safety car and I guarantee the lead driver will be providing info that best suits his situation.

* If it's up to the lead driver to drive to the delta and determine the pace as the "safety car", then if the pack went quicker than the time delta allowed, wouldn't it be the lead driver alone who would incur a penalty? After all, every car behind would just say they were keeping up with the safety car. Doesn't really seem fair to me.

I'm not sure what a reasonable solution would be but I don't think getting rid of the safety car as it is now and putting the responsibility of that job onto the lead driver is the right way to go.

Some valid points, but I don't think any are insurmountable.
We already have a VSC, where all cars drive to a delta, so the principle is already tested. A SC is only brought out when it becomes desirable to bunch up the pack because of, say, debris on the track. And unless I'm mistaken, the SC is usually being driven at the limits of its performance, which is possibly why they have two people as the driver has to concentrate on keeping the thing on the road.

But if the issue is tyres cooling down through going too slow, then the SC hasn't got any weapon to counteract that. If an F1 car could go slightly faster than the SC, without being anywhere near the limit, it would arguably be safer than the current SC which is maxxed out. And they only need to "crawl" when going past the offending section: the rest of the time they could be going a little quicker to help keep the temps up (although still not at racing speeds). And in the compromised section, they could have a system of warning flags to help things along. I don't really see a problem that can't be addressed.

The one area I do think poses questions is in wet racing and the feedback thereof. But I'm far from convinced that BM - if it is indeed his feedback that triggers the decisions - does a good job there. More than one wet race has allowed the SC to go on for far too long


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:08 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
jimmyj wrote:
I'm with Fiki, we need a different tyre solution. I would not be upset if there were a faster safety car though.
Glad you are with me on the tyres. But think about it; safety is not increased if cars pass an incident at greater speed, which on top of that may increase the number of times they pass that incident site. (Regardless of how much all those laps behind the SC reduce proper racing.)

If F1 is supposed to be road relevant, then it should make proper tyres mandatory. In the era before downforce, Jim Clark once competed in three Grands Prix on the same set of tyres. These days, tyres aren't even allowed to be used for a whole race, let alone more than one. This nonsense should be stopped by the FIA.

It's a long time since we had full-on performance tyres. I don't see them ever reversing that trend now they know they can effectively control a race by simple expedient of controlling the tyres, sadly


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:42 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Centauri wrote:
They could create an actual F1 car, with relatively basic aero and use it as a safety car.

Or use something like a GP2 car.

Is there a reason the safety car can't be open-wheel?

The safety car is supposed to be relatively slow...Having a GP2 car at full chat would not be particularly safe if there is a bad accident somewhere on the track.

The problem IMO isn't that the safety car is too slow. It's that the current cars are too fast and the current tires are too sensitive. The cars are like 6 seconds quicker than they were in 2014 but the safety car is the same speed.


But safety cars are generally responding to an issue at a certain area of track. They can most likely drive at an increased speed for 90% of the lap, allowing the following cars to keep temps in the right place.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:46 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Some valid points, but I don't think any are insurmountable.
We already have a VSC, where all cars drive to a delta, so the principle is already tested. A SC is only brought out when it becomes desirable to bunch up the pack because of, say, debris on the track. And unless I'm mistaken, the SC is usually being driven at the limits of its performance, which is possibly why they have two people as the driver has to concentrate on keeping the thing on the road.

But if the issue is tyres cooling down through going too slow, then the SC hasn't got any weapon to counteract that. If an F1 car could go slightly faster than the SC, without being anywhere near the limit, it would arguably be safer than the current SC which is maxxed out. And they only need to "crawl" when going past the offending section: the rest of the time they could be going a little quicker to help keep the temps up (although still not at racing speeds). And in the compromised section, they could have a system of warning flags to help things along. I don't really see a problem that can't be addressed.

The one area I do think poses questions is in wet racing and the feedback thereof. But I'm far from convinced that BM - if it is indeed his feedback that triggers the decisions - does a good job there. More than one wet race has allowed the SC to go on for far too long


The VSC, other than debris, is generally a 'bad but not that bad' situation. We can not rely on racing drivers, with all the other information they're trying to navigate, to be responsible for navigating other drivers through a big accident.

Why not just use a faster safety car? It feels like we're trying to reinvent the wheel here.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:48 pm 
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1. There is a problem with the lead driver being able to fade back from the Safety Car slowing the field for a well timed charge to benefit himself. The lead driver should be required to maintain no more than a certain gap to the safety car till it leaves the racing surface. (For instance the lead driver may not fall back more than five seconds behind the pace car.)

2. When deployed the Safety car serves the purpose of having a rider in contact with the Stewards via radio. This needs to be an option when necessary. Don't make the lead driver do communication with the stewards and focus on instructions and strategy from his team at the same time. If radio contact is not necessary then use the VSC option

3. Full course caution speeds need to be slow enough so that drivers can safely maintain control of their cars with Flag and Comm. workers on track AND keep their cars in the prime operating temperatures.

4. For no more laps than a Safety Car put on in any given race, fitment with Intermediate Rain tires from whatever racing series ought to be up to the job of providing excellent traction and long enough service life to last one entire race's usage. (About half a dozen laps) Safety car tire need not be street spec tires or DOT carcasses as we say here in the US.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:50 pm 
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SC too slow? Well, I thought that was the idea behind a safety car.

The drivers can belly ache about other things. But the SC is there to slow and control the pace of the field when needed, and all trailing cars are treated the same. So deal with it.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 1:58 pm 
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There's already a limit to how far back from the SC the lead driver can fall. I can't remember what it is but it seemed like something very arbitrary like 20 car lengths.

Vettel got a penalty for it several years ago and I think the pitwall warned Hamilton about a few times as well.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:09 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
There's already a limit to how far back from the SC the lead driver can fall. I can't remember what it is but it seemed like something very arbitrary like 20 car lengths.

Vettel got a penalty for it several years ago and I think the pitwall warned Hamilton about a few times as well.


Haven't seen it enforced in the last couple of years and have not heard that the reg is still in force. Can you point to the current rule?

Safety Car Regs as published on F1 website: https://www.formula1.com/en/championshi ... _race.html

Shorten the distance up if necessary.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:21 pm 
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Ennis wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Some valid points, but I don't think any are insurmountable.
We already have a VSC, where all cars drive to a delta, so the principle is already tested. A SC is only brought out when it becomes desirable to bunch up the pack because of, say, debris on the track. And unless I'm mistaken, the SC is usually being driven at the limits of its performance, which is possibly why they have two people as the driver has to concentrate on keeping the thing on the road.

But if the issue is tyres cooling down through going too slow, then the SC hasn't got any weapon to counteract that. If an F1 car could go slightly faster than the SC, without being anywhere near the limit, it would arguably be safer than the current SC which is maxxed out. And they only need to "crawl" when going past the offending section: the rest of the time they could be going a little quicker to help keep the temps up (although still not at racing speeds). And in the compromised section, they could have a system of warning flags to help things along. I don't really see a problem that can't be addressed.

The one area I do think poses questions is in wet racing and the feedback thereof. But I'm far from convinced that BM - if it is indeed his feedback that triggers the decisions - does a good job there. More than one wet race has allowed the SC to go on for far too long


The VSC, other than debris, is generally a 'bad but not that bad' situation. We can not rely on racing drivers, with all the other information they're trying to navigate, to be responsible for navigating other drivers through a big accident.

Why not just use a faster safety car? It feels like we're trying to reinvent the wheel here.

yeah, maybe. Just thought that the current SC is already one of the fastest cars around anyway. It just can't compete with the open-wheeled monsters that are F1 cars, so the thought process went along the lines of "why not use something that we know can?!" :D


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:27 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
There's already a limit to how far back from the SC the lead driver can fall. I can't remember what it is but it seemed like something very arbitrary like 20 car lengths.

Vettel got a penalty for it several years ago and I think the pitwall warned Hamilton about a few times as well.


Haven't seen it enforced in the last couple of years and have not heard that the reg is still in force. Can you point to the current rule?

Safety Car Regs as published on F1 website: https://www.formula1.com/en/championshi ... _race.html

Shorten the distance up if necessary.

Your link points to an overview of the safety car rules. What the actual regulation (in force for this year published Dec 7, 2017) says is.
Quote:
39.7 All competing cars must reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart.

https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110

It doesn't specifically call out the lead car relative to the safety car but saying "All competing cars" would seem to apply to the lead car as well IMO.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:35 pm 
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RaggedMan wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
There's already a limit to how far back from the SC the lead driver can fall. I can't remember what it is but it seemed like something very arbitrary like 20 car lengths.

Vettel got a penalty for it several years ago and I think the pitwall warned Hamilton about a few times as well.


Haven't seen it enforced in the last couple of years and have not heard that the reg is still in force. Can you point to the current rule?

Safety Car Regs as published on F1 website: https://www.formula1.com/en/championshi ... _race.html

Shorten the distance up if necessary.

Your link points to an overview of the safety car rules. What the actual regulation (in force for this year published Dec 7, 2017) says is.
Quote:
39.7 All competing cars must reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart.

https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110

It doesn't specifically call out the lead car relative to the safety car but saying "All competing cars" would seem to apply to the lead car as well IMO.

RaggedMan,
Thanks for the info. Seems to me that the rule is not very well enforced. Have seen restarts where the safety car is nowhere in sight for the last half a lap of full course caution.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 2:41 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
RaggedMan wrote:
There's already a limit to how far back from the SC the lead driver can fall. I can't remember what it is but it seemed like something very arbitrary like 20 car lengths.

Vettel got a penalty for it several years ago and I think the pitwall warned Hamilton about a few times as well.


Haven't seen it enforced in the last couple of years and have not heard that the reg is still in force. Can you point to the current rule?

Safety Car Regs as published on F1 website: https://www.formula1.com/en/championshi ... _race.html

Shorten the distance up if necessary.

Your link points to an overview of the safety car rules. What the actual regulation (in force for this year published Dec 7, 2017) says is.
Quote:
39.7 All competing cars must reduce speed and form up in line behind the safety car no more than ten car lengths apart.

https://www.fia.com/regulation/category/110

It doesn't specifically call out the lead car relative to the safety car but saying "All competing cars" would seem to apply to the lead car as well IMO.

RaggedMan,
Thanks for the info. Seems to me that the rule is not very well enforced. Have seen restarts where the safety car is nowhere in sight for the last half a lap of full course caution.

Yea, like I said before it's pretty arbitrary (who and by what method is 10 car lengths determined) and I can only think of it being enforced once with Vettel and a few times after that either in the same season or the following year when Hamilton had his pitwall warn him about it.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 3:29 pm 
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The safety car is to slow the field in the interests of safety. We do have the responsibility to make it safe for the track workers.

The problem is that the tires operate in a narrow temperature range. The solution is simple, fix the tires. And if a car is unable to get the tires up to temperature after a safety car, then go talk to the designers and engineers, they were the ones who built in the car's behavior.

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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 4:07 pm 
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Aren't they ditching tire warmers sometime soon anyway? So they will have cold tires after each pit stop.
If so, the drivers should become somewhat accustomed to how the cold tires react.
Pirelli may be able to do something about cold temp. performance at that point.


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 5:37 pm 
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The safety car is needed for erm, safety. Its not the car thats the problem its the tyres. Why do tyres have to be melting to work? OK, it may loose a second a lap for the year its introduced, but tyres really need a rethink from the ground up


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PostPosted: Tue May 15, 2018 5:45 pm 
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I'd be in favour of stopping the race. I've no idea why they all drive around at a snails pace behind a safety car, when they might as well just stop.

Either a VSC/FCY or throw a red flag. Everyone comes into the pits (parc ferme unless proven damage), the marshals can clear all the debris in perfect safety and no racing laps are lost. When we go green again, basically run a parade lap at a delta-controlled pace somewhere between VSC and full race to warm the tyres, then a safety car style restart at the end of the lap.

No more cold brakes and tyres.
No racing laps lost under SC.
Improved safety.

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