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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:59 pm 
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First of all I don't take it for granted that everyone knows what a black and orange flag is so a quick explanation. It signals to the driver from the FIA that a driver should return to their pit because they have damage to their car. It does not mean they are disqualified.

So I suggest this flag is being under used. At the Spanish Grand Prix Max Verstappen had damage to his front wing, which eventually came off and Perez ran over the debris. We saw what happened when Bottas ran over debris in Azernaijan.

The FIA are watching the same race as all of us on television. As soon as the incident with Max happened in Spain, I thought the FIA should have displayed the black and orange flag. We don't need debris on the track from damage to the cars which is preventable.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 9:21 pm 
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I can only agree. And I think the same is true for the black/white flag.

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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:22 pm 
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I really don't think we want to go down the route of the stewards encouraging anyone with slight damage to have to pit. It hardly promotes racing.


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PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 10:23 pm 
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Davidbl wrote:
The FIA are watching the same race as all of us on television. As soon as the incident with Max happened in Spain, I thought the FIA should have displayed the black and orange flag. We don't need debris on the track from damage to the cars which is preventable.

The problem there is that the decision window was less than 20 seconds: he hit Stroll midway through the final sector, and his wing broke on exit of the last corner. That's not very much time at all for the FIA to decide to show him a black and orange, and even less time before he was passed the pits and would have needed an extra lap to obey it. They'd have needed to make the decision almost instantly, possibly even before they had time to watch the footage of the incident in full.

If it had taken longer to fall off, fully agree. The black and orange flag is too rarely used in F1.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 2:15 am 
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That's always been the case. Sometimes they get it wrong, but for the overwhelming number of incidents the B&O flag isn't appropriate. Verstappen's case definitely didn't warrant the flag, regardless of the eventual outcome, and the race steward could not reasonably be expected to reach a conclusion to bring it out within 15 seconds of the incident occurring.

The 2008 French Grand Prix with Raikkonen's exhaust pipe hanging off did warrant the flag, but I can't off the top of my head think of any instances in the following decade that did except perhaps Vettel at Australia the following year.

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PostPosted: Fri May 18, 2018 12:35 pm 
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I agree that it isn't used enough.
No, we can't expect the stewards to react to the incidents with lightning speed. But I have seen parts flapping on cars for 10 laps before as well. They can certainly catch those.

On a slightly related subject, they should come up with a "damaged car driving on track" flag/light. To let drivers know there is a slower, possibly erratically moving car in front of them (hopefully) heading to pit lane. Things like flailing tire carcasses, missing wings, etc. It would also indicate that there may be debris on the track. They may be able to use the meatball flag, or a solid orange flag/light if they are distinguishable from red & yellow in different lighting conditions.


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PostPosted: Sat May 19, 2018 2:06 pm 
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I would say that the broken piece of wing fell off before the stewards had the time to act on it.

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PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2018 9:34 am 
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Is this not just a modern sign of the times? We have radio now, they get told to get their pickle to the pits (ie Hamilton's headrest).


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