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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 7:31 pm 
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Viewpoints on the Monaco GP were mixed. While there were a few on this forum who have said they enjoyed the 2018 race and an found it very exciting (happy for them), I think that the general consensus was that the race last weekend was boring. Even some of the drivers have come out and said that it was a "boring race". While it's unrealistic to expect that every race track should create wheel to wheel excitement at every race, it does feel that the format of the track at Monaco does not suit the current spec of F1 car that is racing on it. What was really frustrating was that at one point the Williams car was lapping almost 4 seconds per lap faster with fresh tyres than the cars at the front, but the drivers at the front were just nursing their tires because they didn't want to loose track position. The Ferrari could have passed the Red Bull, but based on the championship why would they risk it for 5 points when there was such a high chance they would crash and loose 15 points.

Based on the money in Monaco and its history, it's pretty safe to say that race is not going to be dropped of the calendar any time soon. There have been a lot of suggestions on what could be done to make the Monaco GP a more exciting race. Extending the track and making it longer, therefore creating a section where the DRS makes overtaking more feasible, making two stops mandatory...

What I have wondered about is changing the way points are assigned at various tracks to make the drivers / teams want to fight harder on tracks where passing presents a higher risk of failure, for example Monaco. To illustrate the concept, if the point spread between first and third was 20 points at Monaco last weekend, don't you think that Seb Vettel and Ferrari would have risked a lot more to try and pass a struggling, wounded Red Bull to try and take the lead in the championship. As it stood, there was way more risk than reward.

If there were different point structures for different tracks, it might also create a bit more strategy for teams as to how they design their cars. For example if street circuits had a higher point yield than open circuits, it might change the way a team chooses to design a car for the season. It might also be easier for some of the smaller teams to focus in different areas. Then, if the FIA change how many points are awarded at each track from year to year, it might also shake things up in the championship race year to year instead of having the same team dominate year after year. It might even end up being less expensive in the long run than changing the technical specifications every few years to try and shake things up.

I am sure I am missing something, there must be a good reason why they have not done this yet.


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 7:47 pm 
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Its was discussed this year but will cost €2 BILLION to extend the circuit

https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2018/03/28/the-keys-to-the-success-of-the-monaco-grand-prix/#774e5ee3579c

https://www.maximumf1.com/nieuws/formula-1/160937/monaco-considering-track-extension

It may not be the most exciting race to watch on tv but im sure its heart pounding to actually drive on it with zero room for error. Even driving it in video game form we the fans appreciate & recognize just how difficult of a circuit it trully is

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 8:06 pm 
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Mayhem wrote:
Its was discussed this year but will cost €2 BILLION to extend the circuit

https://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2018/03/28/the-keys-to-the-success-of-the-monaco-grand-prix/#774e5ee3579c

https://www.maximumf1.com/nieuws/formula-1/160937/monaco-considering-track-extension

It may not be the most exciting race to watch on tv but im sure its heart pounding to actually drive on it with zero room for error. Even driving it in video game form we the fans appreciate & recognize just how difficult of a circuit it trully is


A headline about something that is at the back of a few people's mind that there are no definite plans to consider seriously.

Moving on...

It wouldn't be difficult to create passing opportunities in terms of the physical alterations. There have been threads on it over previous years on this Forum. Given that the GP will continue as it is every year if nothing is done - expect it to continue as it is (including some people mumbling about it being boring for a week after the race).


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 8:42 pm 
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Lewis Hamilton has said they should change the route of the circuit and make use of the extra streets.

While this is never going to happen, designing street circuits on Google Maps is always fun. I had a look around, set a few rules, ie, iconic areas had to remain, so Sainte Devote, Casino, Rascasse, Lowes Hairpin, the tunnel. It also has to make use of the existing pit complex.

Basically, that meant there are only two places to expand. One is going off after Lowes, but before going into the tunnel. The other place is up the hill, where I had a play. I tried to use corners where there was at least some chance of run off. It's pure fantasy, but here we go:


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(credit: Google Maps screenshots)


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:09 pm 
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Might I suggest not taking the Hypersoft to Monaco next year? What's the point of having a tyre like that if no one's going to use it properly?

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:30 pm 
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No matter what kind of extension there is, it will still be too short of a space for an overtaking maneuver. The only hope is to get rid of the chicane and make a big straight. But since it's tight, a measure should be taken to put a line on the track dividing it to left and right, where the car would take one side leaving the competitor behind to take the other side of the track. There should be a point at which, the car that is in front, (re)claims the position.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:42 pm 
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I don't think extending the track is necessary, though if Monaco wants to follow the Dutch example and reclaim land for the sake of reclaiming land, perhaps that might then come into the picture. But reclaiming land for the simple purpose of extending the track would be nonsensical.
I think there is one way of increasing the chances of a DRS overtake (because that's all it is), if the cars were to continue straight ahead where they now use the chicane, and only switch onto the Quai des Etats-Unis at the end of what is now the escape road (Avenue JF Kennedy).
This would extend the run from the corner at Portier by some 100m, from 735m to 835m.
Looking at the map, I don't really see any other possibilities.

Please don't alter the points system again; I'm still getting used to the current one.

Narrowing the cars again would help overtaking at Monaco, and so would dropping the circus tyres.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:46 pm 
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Introduce more tactical and strategic options.

I really can't see the issues here. Monaco presents a different challenge to almost every other circuit.

I for one think the race on the weekend, while not full of action, was gripping and well worth the time investment.

If I may use this analogy. Who wants to watch Avenger or F&F movies all the time when movies like Shawshank Redemption and Silence of the Lambs can be just as, and sometimes even more, enthralling but for a different reason.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:57 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Lewis Hamilton has said they should change the route of the circuit and make use of the extra streets.

While this is never going to happen, designing street circuits on Google Maps is always fun. I had a look around, set a few rules, ie, iconic areas had to remain, so Sainte Devote, Casino, Rascasse, Lowes Hairpin, the tunnel. It also has to make use of the existing pit complex.

Basically, that meant there are only two places to expand. One is going off after Lowes, but before going into the tunnel. The other place is up the hill, where I had a play. I tried to use corners where there was at least some chance of run off. It's pure fantasy, but here we go:


Image
(credit: Google Maps screenshots)


One can only dream, really nice track lay out.... Wouldnt hurt to submit it to f1 just to give it a go.

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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:25 pm 
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Durable tyres and it's one of the best races of the season. It's been proved many times.


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:36 pm 
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Everyone seems to agree the most exciting part of Monaco is the qualli. One car and driver v the scenery rather than v another Car.

Make it all about car / driver v Monaco and have it as a time trial. There would have to be lots of trimming to get it to be a race equivalent, such as 5 laps on supersoft, 5 laps on hard etc, and possibly some sort of -4 cars on track spaced out and any car 'caught' is out and the catcher goes to the final.

No. I am not really serious, just joining in the spirit of things and look at options.
There are a couple of places the track could be lengthened but which ever way there is going to be a small section missed out and the locals will not like that


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PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2018 10:38 pm 
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Just a single proper overtaking zone with enough actual straight and run-off would improve things dramatically. I figure the best/only option would be to reclaim some of the harbour, but then (as mentioned in the articles) the costs and logistical difficulty would be huge.
Maybe fill in the swimming pool for the weekend? :)

If you were really going blue sky the I think Monaco would be the best candidate for really mixing up the format. Maybe have it a once a season race weekend with spec cars more suited to the circuit.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 12:30 am 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Lewis Hamilton has said they should change the route of the circuit and make use of the extra streets.

While this is never going to happen, designing street circuits on Google Maps is always fun. I had a look around, set a few rules, ie, iconic areas had to remain, so Sainte Devote, Casino, Rascasse, Lowes Hairpin, the tunnel. It also has to make use of the existing pit complex.

Basically, that meant there are only two places to expand. One is going off after Lowes, but before going into the tunnel. The other place is up the hill, where I had a play. I tried to use corners where there was at least some chance of run off. It's pure fantasy, but here we go:


Image
(credit: Google Maps screenshots)


Interesting layout you have there, but I struggle to see how it would improve overtaking.

I think the only thing and easiest thing they can do as mentioned before is to remove the chicane after the tunnel. It shouldn't be too difficult nor too expensive to do that, and it would definitely create more opportunities to overtake.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 3:54 am 
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Extending the circuit won't make a difference. It's the width that's the problem. Had the track been half as wide as that of Malaysia, we would've seen more overtaking. Singapore is a street circuit as well but there's plenty of room when compared to Monaco which is why we see more overtakes there.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 5:45 am 
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While on the topic of changing the layout, I reckon they might be able to extend the tunnel straight by connecting it to the road heading left at Portier. There's a few back streets that look wide enough to accommodate side-by-side racing, and a lot of the reason I think little overtaking happens at the chicane is because the straight isn't quite long enough.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:04 am 
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We know overtaking isn't easy, we know overtaking at Monaco really isn't easy, but a RBR down on power being able to comfortably hold the lead is not a good look.

I do however think this partly came down to drivers. Ricciardo was leading, who nobody currently views as a real WDC threat this year as RBR are not seen as a threat to Ferrari and Merc (wrongly, IMO... if last season has taught us anything).
Vettel was ahead of Hamilton, and didn't want to risk Hamilton making up more ground on him if his attempt failed.
Hamilton was nursing used tyres for a huge period of time, so he both couldn't risk burning them out and losing track position and was probably relatively content losing little ground to Vettel with Ricciardo in the lead.

Max came through the field fairly well because he had a huge pace advantage over the cars he was overtaking. Realistically some of these drivers would have had a 5 second pace advantage over Ricciardo at certain points but still didn't take the chance. I think that is due to the drivers.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:50 am 
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It would be preferable to have an actual overtake on the same bit of track, but splitting the track (where both cars can be seen at the same time) would also be practical. Casino Square is one possibility. They would need a rule about selecting your route early.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:57 am 
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babararacucudada wrote:
It would be preferable to have an actual overtake on the same bit of track, but splitting the track (where both cars can be seen at the same time) would also be practical. Casino Square is one possibility. They would need a rule about selecting your route early.
When Bernie brought this up, he was ridiculed.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 11:35 am 
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Why not get rid of the chicane at the end of the tunnel, that would extend that section enough for a possible overtake.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 11:40 am 
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Syholl wrote:
Why not get rid of the chicane at the end of the tunnel, that would extend that section enough for a possible overtake.

It's a bumpy downhill braking zone as it is, moving it anywhere else would probably make it less tricky so even if the straight were a bit longer the chances of pulling of an overtake might be e smaller.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 11:53 am 
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Monaco being a TIGHT street circuit, I'm afraid can't be done with any changes. It's not a traditional circuit with multiple layouts. This year's race was bizarre in a few ways & we just need to carry on forward with the yawn factor (not for me).

The bright side of Monaco Grand Prix is that it's always followed by the Canadian Grand Prix, one of the most exciting race weekends on the calendar!

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 12:52 pm 
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How to make F1 more exciting should be the question. It's not like if Monaco was the only borefest of the season... At least it allows great filming, which the 19 other dull races of the season rarely do (except Spa and Singapour, mainly because of the night).
There was a time when you could see races at Monaco, as well as elsewhere. Before butchering Monaco a little more, the people in charge should address F1 as a whole. Size of the cars, size of the front wing, aero, racing rules, and so on... and the Pirelli things (tyres, really ? - Even in Monaco last sunday, with the current ugly cars and stupid rules, we would have got a race, except for the black jokes provided by Pirelli, and the mandatory change to a second different compound).

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 1:04 pm 
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1) Allow each team to use a new PU for Monaco, one that doesn't count towards their totals for the year. The same with the gearbox elements.
2) Remove the fuel consumption limit for the race.
3) Bring the three hardest tyre compounds in the Pirelli range.

These changes would be geared 100% at allowing the drivers to push as close to the maximum for as long as possible. No worrying about tyres degrading. No worries about preserving the engine or gearbox parts, or even losing them in a crash. No worries about preserving fuel. Just flat out lap after lap after lap.

Realistically, cost would be a huge issue for #1, whilst I've got to admit I'm not even sure the tanks are big enough to do #2 and have enough fuel for an entire race. #3 would be the easiest aspect to introduce but on its own it is still only going to do so much when the drivers/teams are preoccupied with managing fuel, engines and gearboxes. You could perhaps do #1 at a push if the FIA were willing to absorb the cost somehow? It's got to be cheaper than changing the track, anyway...

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 1:19 pm 
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I can't imagine that Monaco has any length of road that would allow cars to get a decent run at the car in front. Therefore, lengthening the circuit would simply add more tight and twisty bits. May be novel, but I can't see it improving the racing.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 1:27 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Durable tyres and it's one of the best races of the season. It's been proved many times.


while i personally prefer higher deg in general, on this occasion i agree after seeing the race. at monaco it is probably better not to have high deg and have them at least semi pushing. though gasly did 39 or so laps on the hyper which i wouldnt call particularly high deg even if he wasnt pushing. hopefully high deg in canada cos that will make it more interesting.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 4:47 pm 
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Unless it rains, it will always be a boring 'race'. Maybe somehow make it a kind of time trial stage. I don't know how, but it would make it more about the challenge of going as quickly as possible around the track than cars cruising around in a processional race. Similar to qualifying but somehow add some other factors in it so that it's not too predictable.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 5:02 pm 
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How to make Monaco more exciting? It's quite simple really, just remove it from the calendar :D


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 5:05 pm 
Either we accept that the Monaco GP isn't always going to be exciting and keep it on the calendar, or replace it with something else.
Those are the options without forcing it to be more exciting artificially. Extending it won't help, and I wouldn't like that change.

Yes, Monaco is boring alot of times but it's been on the calendar for a long time. Also it puts the drivers to the test and produces great qualifying sessions.
It is a classic and I like the glamorous scenery, lifestyle etc, and I like that it's in Europe.


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Make tires such that they don't make marbles all over the place. Having a tight track is one thing, not being able to go offline to overtake makes the situation worse. This applies to all tracks I guess.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Warheart01 wrote:
Yes, Monaco is boring alot of times but it's been on the calendar for a long time. Also it puts the drivers to the test and produces great qualifying sessions.
It is a classic and I like the glamorous scenery, lifestyle etc, and I like that it's in Europe.


And it's also the only circuit that doesn't pay a dime to F1.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 9:38 pm 
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AravJ wrote:
Make tires such that they don't make marbles all over the place. Having a tight track is one thing, not being able to go offline to overtake makes the situation worse. This applies to all tracks I guess.



Does anyone remember how bad the marbles were the year they weren't allowed to change tires during the race? I ask because I don't remember.


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 9:43 pm 
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With Monaco being such a celebrity affair, get them in on the act. Make the race a Pro/Am event. Could you imagine it? Vettel/Tom Brady vs Hamilton/Ariana Grande. Ricciardo/Brad Pitt vs Verstappen/George Clooney

Make it happen Chase!


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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:02 pm 
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donr wrote:
AravJ wrote:
Make tires such that they don't make marbles all over the place. Having a tight track is one thing, not being able to go offline to overtake makes the situation worse. This applies to all tracks I guess.



Does anyone remember how bad the marbles were the year they weren't allowed to change tires during the race? I ask because I don't remember.
I don't recall it as being particularly bad. I would expect the harder compounds to shed fewer marbles.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:22 pm 
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AravJ wrote:
Make tires such that they don't make marbles all over the place. Having a tight track is one thing, not being able to go offline to overtake makes the situation worse. This applies to all tracks I guess.

Regardless of what tire you go with on CLOSED circuits like Monaco marbles will always be there.
Why? because cars must stick to the prime line in order to ensure any mishap wont result in a plate full of barricade.
As such, the marbles have nowhere to go but on top of themselves until they create a bed of loose rubber sediment.

The best thing for MODERN F1 is to simply let the legend of Monaco exist in the past because the fact of the matter is that F1 outgrew that "circuit" decades ago.
The cars got to a level of speed and performance where it's excellent for time trialing via Qualy, which is fantastic to watch if you want to see what having real Cojones
and supreme skill looks like. For actual racing on the other hand, it's difficult to have all-out racing because the circuit is such that if a car of similar speed doesn't make
a mistake or get offline enough for someone else to squeak by, you're never going to get a serious chance to overtake.

Christian Horner telling Ricciardo his drive was on par with Michael Schumacher's drive Spain is absurd.

Congrats to Ricciardo, I'm happy for him finally getting his win there but in all actuality, on ANY other track he'd have finished way down the order because his gearbox issue would have left him a sitting duck and nothing he could do about it. In Monaco he was able to put his elbowz out and nurse his car home for the majority of laps and take the win. There are plenty of other venues that are light years better than the exhibition that is Monaco.

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 10:39 pm 
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I agree in terms of F1 simply out growing the circuit. It is still one of the best measures of skill for a driver. The speeds being reached on the narrow streets are phenomenal with the cars just dancing around the curves. (far better then any theme park ride any average mortal has ever experienced.)

Personally i dont see the circuit going off the calender anytime soon. Now as far as circuit extension, it wont fix the width of the streets for obvious reasons but the added extension should add overtaking opportunities via pit stops as the cars will have more distance to travel. Bringing forth more strategy opportunities. Should also aid in less traffic congestion

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PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 11:40 pm 
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They could build a bridge going out to sea a couple of miles. Build houses along it as well, to recoup some of the cost. There would be loads of extra parking space for all the toffs and their boats... they could pay for it using all the money they overcharge people who visit Monaco every year!!!


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 3:30 am 
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I think the 2018 Monaco race was far from the most boring in the last few years.

Even if I pretended it was a boring race, why the knee-jerk reaction asking for wild changes to the format and layout? Monaco has a long history and it's well known it's difficult to pass. This doesn't need to change - the difficulty of passing adds more excitement to qualifying and when passes do happen they are a thrill to watch.

The track is very very difficult for the drivers - constant corners, elevation changes and no margin for error. On-board views of fast laps are very exciting to watch.

Monaco doesn't produce boring races year-on-year. There have been some very exciting races at Monaco. The narrow track and difficulty in passing does not always deliver precessions.

Drivers and teams must be able to perform on various styles of track. I think there have been some extremely boring races at big, wide open tracks like Bahrain and Abu Dhabi, but they are what they are and sometimes they do produce a good race.

Every race is different. Some will be more exciting than others. This constant, short sighted and knee-jerk thinking that all races have to be blockbusters and have 200 passes is crazy. That has never been Formula 1.

Monaco doesn't need to change. The attention span and appreciation from fans needs to.

A driver having a boring race means nothing, Lewis couldn't mount a challenge for 2nd let alone 1st and it wasn't due to difficulty passing, his tyre management was lacking.

Fernando is driving a lacklustre and evidently unreliable McLaren, so he's obviously going to be bored.

Red Bull weren't having a boring race, that's for sure.


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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:08 am 
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I would not be surprised if the increase in calls for change are in some small way related to Liberty Media being in charge now. Monaco has generally been pretty boring, and that was acceptable under the old ownership but Liberty I can't imagine wants to hold onto "charm" over viewers.

Liberty bought into the sport to make money, and a big part of that has been the changes already brought in for the audience. If Monaco is going to get scrapped, or get forced to change, it's most likely going to happen in the next few years as Liberty investigates what it's able to do to make the sport more interesting to a worldwide audience.

Personally the cars outgrew the circuit a long time ago, and 2018 emphasised that. The circuit is more suited to perhaps a TT-style event where each driver races in the same open-wheel car. I can't see how that would make for good television though.

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:30 am 
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Nothing but sour grapes from Hamilton and Alonso.

Never heard them complain when they won at Monaco in the past.

Hamilton has won dozens of boring races like Spain 2018 which was worse than Monaco IMO.

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PostPosted: Wed May 30, 2018 7:05 am 
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