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STR Seat
Jake Dennis 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Nirei Fukuzumi 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Sean Galael 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Antonio Giovinazzi 12%  12%  [ 3 ]
Brendon Hartley 46%  46%  [ 12 ]
Danill Kvyat 4%  4%  [ 1 ]
Robert Kubica 19%  19%  [ 5 ]
Tadasuke Makino 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Pascal Wehrlein 19%  19%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 26
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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:49 am 
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Whatever you think of Hartley he hasn't generated the results STR would have expected by now. According to various website their options are the names listed in this Poll.

Who do you think they should go with and why?

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:53 am 
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Can't see any of these names happening to be honest.


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:14 pm 
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He actually was very competitive in Monaco, I think I was perhaps one of the first to be critical of him but even so a rookie driver should be given a chance of a full season, it's not like he's a million miles away from Gasly, also many of the names listed don't make much sense, do the top 2 even have a F1 super license?

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:20 pm 
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Nope, can't see any of these going there either.

TR exists as a team to blood new talent to go to RB - the problem comes when you have two good drivers already in RB for a prolonged period. How good do you have to be to get a shot at RB now?

I can't help but wonder - if Kvyat started this season in RB, would he have been swapped with Gasly by now?

There's only so much top talent out there, and it's slim pickings for TR - proven by the fact that Hartley got a (second) shot at all.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:29 pm 
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I think the next young driver they sign will be outside their young driver program, it's rumoured they are looking at Norris if he doesn't get a McLaren seat, Verstappen after all wasn't in their young driver program when he got signed to STR, sure they plastered his F3 in Red Bull stickers for the remaining of the season to make it look perhaps that he was in their young driver program.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:33 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
I think the next young driver they sign will be outside their young driver program, it's rumoured they are looking at Norris if he doesn't get a McLaren seat, Verstappen after all wasn't in their young driver program when he got signed to STR, sure they plastered his F3 in Red Bull stickers for the remaining of the season to make it look perhaps that he was in their young driver program.


I can't see McLaren letting Norris go - but then I think the same about Vandoorne so not sure what happens if Norris wins F2 this year.

Alonso may leave of his own accord...

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:35 pm 
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Neither Dennis nor Galael have superlicenses so listing them is pointless.
Giovinazzi, eh, I can't see Red Bull running a Ferrari junior at Toro Rosso.
Kvyat's probably got to 'do a Hartley' and rebuild his reputation away from F1 before he'd even get another F1 chance.
Kubica :lol:
Wehrlein's probably the most realistic replacement if Mercedes were to release him so he could become a Red Bull junior. Again, I just don't see Red Bull running another team's junior driver in their junior team. FWIW I do think Mercedes would release him if he had that opportunity, rather than stand in his way (unless they're 100% certain they can get him a F1 seat next year, which at this stage in 2018 they can't be).

So that basically leaves Hartley, who I think gets at least until the summer break. After that point the Formula E season has ended and the likes of Buemi and Vergne could be a possibility, should Red Bull want to dip back into their former driver pool. If not, Wehrlein continues to be available if they can coax him away from Mercedes. If not, Hartley probably keeps the seat by default.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 12:55 pm 
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I think Hartley's results have largely been down to poor luck- sure, one or two poor decisions too, but there's been a lot of luck involved. He should be given a chance to settle in, at the very least.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:04 pm 
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Hartley should be replaced. Torro Rosso are 7th in the constructors championship, but Haas are level on poibts and have a stronger package (that they haven't taken full advantage of yet).

Gasly has 18 points to Hartley's 1 point. A stronger second driver could be the difference between 6th and 8th. Especially if the Honda upgrade is good.

Last year Renault replaced the hapless Palmer with Sainz. They subsequently overtook Torro Rosso in the constructors. Taking a 'wait and see' attitude can be so costly.


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:04 pm 
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What about Sainz? He is only on loan to Renault. I think if hartley does get replaced it may well come down to who the RBR team use as an engine supplier.


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 1:39 pm 
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rivf1 wrote:
What about Sainz? He is only on loan to Renault. I think if hartley does get replaced it may well come down to who the RBR team use as an engine supplier.


I'm pretty sure RB can only bring Sainz back for a gig with the main team, not for the supporting act.

It won't happen but i'd like to see Kvyat given another go in F1 if Hartley was to be replaced.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:06 pm 
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Yeah Sainz won't return to STR.
I think Hartley will be there for the rest of the season, and none of the names above seem very likely. He might even be there next year, because honestly at the moment I think the feeder series look pretty bleak outside of those that are already signed up.

F2:
- Russell, Aitken, Norris and De Vries are in driver development programmes already, I give good odds to Russell and Norris to make it into F1, Aitken a bit less, De Vries not likely at all. Nobody for STR here I think.
- Albon could be an outsider, but... not convinced
- Markelov: no. He's a fifth-year driver, doing well through experience in the series instead of outright talent

GP3: I don't see anyone currently driving in GP3 to become an F1 driver

F3 Euro: maybe Enaam Ahmed or Sacha Fenestraz? But way too soon.

These are the three most prominent European feeder series at the moment and if you'd guess about three or max 4 of these seem good enough to ever make it to F1, that's not a lot.

So Hartley has that going for him for maybe next year as well.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 2:06 pm 
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Is there anyone who doubts that Pascal Wehrlein would bring more points than Hartley?

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:32 pm 
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Replacing Kvyat with Hartley seemed like a strange decision from the get-go and starting to look like a bad one more and more. Although Hartley isn't that far behind and he should get his chance until the end of the year at least.


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:51 pm 
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Yellowbin74 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think the next young driver they sign will be outside their young driver program, it's rumoured they are looking at Norris if he doesn't get a McLaren seat, Verstappen after all wasn't in their young driver program when he got signed to STR, sure they plastered his F3 in Red Bull stickers for the remaining of the season to make it look perhaps that he was in their young driver program.


I can't see McLaren letting Norris go - but then I think the same about Vandoorne so not sure what happens if Norris wins F2 this year.

Alonso may leave of his own accord...

That may be the case with Alonso....

http://www.onestopstrategy.com/article/ ... z+snr.html

Regarding Norris I've heard that if he's not offered a McLaren seat for next year then he becomes a free agent.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:56 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
Hartley should be replaced. Torro Rosso are 7th in the constructors championship, but Haas are level on poibts and have a stronger package (that they haven't taken full advantage of yet).

Gasly has 18 points to Hartley's 1 point. A stronger second driver could be the difference between 6th and 8th. Especially if the Honda upgrade is good.

Last year Renault replaced the hapless Palmer with Sainz. They subsequently overtook Torro Rosso in the constructors. Taking a 'wait and see' attitude can be so costly.

I don't think the team is driven by constructors points as such hence why they went with the Honda engine and a bit of Honda money.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:57 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
rivf1 wrote:
What about Sainz? He is only on loan to Renault. I think if hartley does get replaced it may well come down to who the RBR team use as an engine supplier.


I'm pretty sure RB can only bring Sainz back for a gig with the main team, not for the supporting act.

It won't happen but i'd like to see Kvyat given another go in F1 if Hartley was to be replaced.

Indeed and if Red Bull resign Ricciardo then they lose Sainz to Renault.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 4:59 pm 
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mds wrote:
Yeah Sainz won't return to STR.
I think Hartley will be there for the rest of the season, and none of the names above seem very likely. He might even be there next year, because honestly at the moment I think the feeder series look pretty bleak outside of those that are already signed up.

F2:
- Russell, Aitken, Norris and De Vries are in driver development programmes already, I give good odds to Russell and Norris to make it into F1, Aitken a bit less, De Vries not likely at all. Nobody for STR here I think.
- Albon could be an outsider, but... not convinced
- Markelov: no. He's a fifth-year driver, doing well through experience in the series instead of outright talent

GP3: I don't see anyone currently driving in GP3 to become an F1 driver

F3 Euro: maybe Enaam Ahmed or Sacha Fenestraz? But way too soon.

These are the three most prominent European feeder series at the moment and if you'd guess about three or max 4 of these seem good enough to ever make it to F1, that's not a lot.

So Hartley has that going for him for maybe next year as well.

Albon is a former Red Bull driver and he's looking as quick as anyone in F2, he also ran Leclerc close to the GP3 title when they were teammates.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Is there anyone who doubts that Pascal Wehrlein would bring more points than Hartley?

How high is Wehrlein's stock now given the beating Ericsson is starting to get from Leclerc, something that Wehrlein himself was unable to do.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:24 pm 
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The fact that TR ended up resorting back to Hartley should tell all anyone needs to know about just how little talent is currently trying to force its way into F1 via the RB junior path.... he's going nowhere.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:27 pm 
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Hartley was a bad hire. He is not an F1 driver.


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:29 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Is there anyone who doubts that Pascal Wehrlein would bring more points than Hartley?

How high is Wehrlein's stock now given the beating Ericsson is starting to get from Leclerc, something that Wehrlein himself was unable to do.

Wehrlein was beating Ericsson pretty much well. How did you come up to "Wehrlein unable to beat Ericsson"?

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:30 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Is there anyone who doubts that Pascal Wehrlein would bring more points than Hartley?

How high is Wehrlein's stock now given the beating Ericsson is starting to get from Leclerc, something that Wehrlein himself was unable to do.

Wehrlein was beating Ericsson pretty much well. How did you come up to "Wehrlein unable to beat Ericsson"?

I should have either said level of beating or even thrashing.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 6:36 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
Hartley was a bad hire. He is not an F1 driver.

Nor was Schumacher when Jordan gave him a drive, or Hamilton when McLaren did etc etc...


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:28 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Is there anyone who doubts that Pascal Wehrlein would bring more points than Hartley?

How high is Wehrlein's stock now given the beating Ericsson is starting to get from Leclerc, something that Wehrlein himself was unable to do.

Wehrlein was beating Ericsson pretty much well. How did you come up to "Wehrlein unable to beat Ericsson"?

I should have either said level of beating or even thrashing.

I think Wehrlein was more consistent and certainly more solid than Ericsson. but pace wise in the race and qualifying, they were both up and down and not much to choose between them really. There were the closest pair of team mates on the grid in terms of average qualifying gap. And although Leclerc did struggle to beat Ericsson in qualifying to start with, he looks to have started to beat him well now. We well see if this continues or Ericsson hopefully will improve a little too. But to me, this does not look good for Werhlein. I think it showed he wasn't very strong in qualifying, like Ericsson. Of course I think Wehrlein should still be here. And I myself also think Ericsson is good enough and other than Baku, has actually looked decent in virtually every race. Good in one or two as well.

In terms of what I think of Hartley, I think we should give him 1 full season at least. And I don't mean from when he joined last year. I meant of he end of this season. Unless drivers are absolutely terrible, which I don't think any drivers in F1 in simply years have been, I don't think any should get kicked out mid season. Like with Renault. If they had decided to kick Palmer out at the end of 2016, then yes, I wouldn't have much against that. But they decided to keep him, so they must surely have trusted him. I think they should have given him the chance to finish 2017. Then similar story with Kvyat. They kept him. Even I did wonder why at one stage, but he did look pretty good at the end of 2016. But I hate it when teams keep drivers, then kick them out. What they did to Kvyat near the end of 2017 was brutal to me. Give him another chance to cover for another driver in the USA gp. After not being able to drive for a while. He did a good job then and got booted out the team entirely right after. Is he good enough to be in F1, I think so yes. But what I think will be best for him is basically do what he is doing now. Working with another team but not in the racing seat. But I could easily see this building his confidence up. And I won't be at all surprised if I see him back in F1 at some point.


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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 9:35 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
Yeah Sainz won't return to STR.
I think Hartley will be there for the rest of the season, and none of the names above seem very likely. He might even be there next year, because honestly at the moment I think the feeder series look pretty bleak outside of those that are already signed up.

F2:
- Russell, Aitken, Norris and De Vries are in driver development programmes already, I give good odds to Russell and Norris to make it into F1, Aitken a bit less, De Vries not likely at all. Nobody for STR here I think.
- Albon could be an outsider, but... not convinced
- Markelov: no. He's a fifth-year driver, doing well through experience in the series instead of outright talent

GP3: I don't see anyone currently driving in GP3 to become an F1 driver

F3 Euro: maybe Enaam Ahmed or Sacha Fenestraz? But way too soon.

These are the three most prominent European feeder series at the moment and if you'd guess about three or max 4 of these seem good enough to ever make it to F1, that's not a lot.

So Hartley has that going for him for maybe next year as well.

Albon is a former Red Bull driver and he's looking as quick as anyone in F2, he also ran Leclerc close to the GP3 title when they were teammates.


Which is why I see an outsider in him. Not convinced though because he needed a lot of time in FR2.0, he didn't have a fantastic year in F3 in 2016, nor in F2 last year, and overall has failed to win any title yet.

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PostPosted: Thu May 31, 2018 10:51 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Regarding Norris I've heard that if he's not offered a McLaren seat for next year then he becomes a free agent.

I saw a quote from Norris (can't remember where right now) where he said he was willing to sit 1 year out, but no more. So that would imply that even if Macca doesn't have a 2019 seat he'd be willing to wait for a 2020 seat.

However, I really think if Norris wins F2 he will be in that car next year. The only question is at whose expense.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:07 am 
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As to whom McLaren might lean towards keeping in F1…

Alonso is the most marketable name in the entire company and given his newly discovered love for contesting several types of series,
he would be a marketing juggernaut for the McLaren brand. Unless someone else decides to pull the trigger and snatch him up for themselves,
he may prefer to contest other series around the globe where he has a chance of winning, while still drawing the largest salary from Macca.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 12:51 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
As to whom McLaren might lean towards keeping in F1…

Alonso is the most marketable name in the entire company and given his newly discovered love for contesting several types of series,
he would be a marketing juggernaut for the McLaren brand. Unless someone else decides to pull the trigger and snatch him up for themselves,
he may prefer to contest other series around the globe where he has a chance of winning, while still drawing the largest salary from Macca.

If I was McLaren and I knew he was thinking of quitting, I'd definitely be considering launching a full-fledged IndyCar team...

... kind of like they're doing right now. 8)

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:22 am 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
Whatever you think of Hartley he hasn't generated the results STR would have expected by now. According to various website their options are the names listed in this Poll.

Who do you think they should go with and why?

You forgot to add 'mystery Japanese driver'.

Seems to provide a link to Honda there is a suggestion they should have a Japanese driver. Perhaps the reason they seem to usually have an Australian driver is to provide a link to Red Bull? (Mistranslated Österreich?)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:51 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
rivf1 wrote:
What about Sainz? He is only on loan to Renault. I think if hartley does get replaced it may well come down to who the RBR team use as an engine supplier.


I'm pretty sure RB can only bring Sainz back for a gig with the main team, not for the supporting act.

It won't happen but i'd like to see Kvyat given another go in F1 if Hartley was to be replaced.


He is still contracted to RB so he doesn't really get a say in the matter until that contract runs out. I can't see it happening(going back to TR) but if RB cut ties with Renault anything could happen.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:25 am 
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iano wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
Whatever you think of Hartley he hasn't generated the results STR would have expected by now. According to various website their options are the names listed in this Poll.

Who do you think they should go with and why?

You forgot to add 'mystery Japanese driver'.

Seems to provide a link to Honda there is a suggestion they should have a Japanese driver. Perhaps the reason they seem to usually have an Australian driver is to provide a link to Red Bull? (Mistranslated Österreich?)


It would not have to be a Japanese driver, just a driver with connections to Honda. Not nationality specific.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:35 am 
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moby wrote:
iano wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
Whatever you think of Hartley he hasn't generated the results STR would have expected by now. According to various website their options are the names listed in this Poll.

Who do you think they should go with and why?

You forgot to add 'mystery Japanese driver'.

Seems to provide a link to Honda there is a suggestion they should have a Japanese driver. Perhaps the reason they seem to usually have an Australian driver is to provide a link to Red Bull? (Mistranslated Österreich?)


It would not have to be a Japanese driver, just a driver with connections to Honda. Not nationality specific.


Done!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 7:53 pm 
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That tiny 0.049 seconds quali advantage that Wehrlein had over Ericsson would have put a lot of teams off gambling on him. In the last 8 races he lost 5-3 to Marcus in quali.

He is better than a few currently on the grid and was better than his teammate in races. But he doesn't bring the revenue they do. It wasn't Pascal's first season either. He had a full year under his belt. There were no excuses for not absolutely humbling Ericsson last season.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:12 pm 
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mds wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mds wrote:
Yeah Sainz won't return to STR.
I think Hartley will be there for the rest of the season, and none of the names above seem very likely. He might even be there next year, because honestly at the moment I think the feeder series look pretty bleak outside of those that are already signed up.

F2:
- Russell, Aitken, Norris and De Vries are in driver development programmes already, I give good odds to Russell and Norris to make it into F1, Aitken a bit less, De Vries not likely at all. Nobody for STR here I think.
- Albon could be an outsider, but... not convinced
- Markelov: no. He's a fifth-year driver, doing well through experience in the series instead of outright talent

GP3: I don't see anyone currently driving in GP3 to become an F1 driver

F3 Euro: maybe Enaam Ahmed or Sacha Fenestraz? But way too soon.

These are the three most prominent European feeder series at the moment and if you'd guess about three or max 4 of these seem good enough to ever make it to F1, that's not a lot.

So Hartley has that going for him for maybe next year as well.

Albon is a former Red Bull driver and he's looking as quick as anyone in F2, he also ran Leclerc close to the GP3 title when they were teammates.


Which is why I see an outsider in him. Not convinced though because he needed a lot of time in FR2.0, he didn't have a fantastic year in F3 in 2016, nor in F2 last year, and overall has failed to win any title yet.

He got injured last year, he damaged his shoulder when he fell off his mountain bike, he did start the season reasonably well though.

Regarding Red Bull junior records you need to check out Sainz's record.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:13 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Regarding Norris I've heard that if he's not offered a McLaren seat for next year then he becomes a free agent.

I saw a quote from Norris (can't remember where right now) where he said he was willing to sit 1 year out, but no more. So that would imply that even if Macca doesn't have a 2019 seat he'd be willing to wait for a 2020 seat.

However, I really think if Norris wins F2 he will be in that car next year. The only question is at whose expense.

Fair enough, there are strong rumours of Alonso going to Indycars with McLaren.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:15 pm 
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rivf1 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
rivf1 wrote:
What about Sainz? He is only on loan to Renault. I think if hartley does get replaced it may well come down to who the RBR team use as an engine supplier.


I'm pretty sure RB can only bring Sainz back for a gig with the main team, not for the supporting act.

It won't happen but i'd like to see Kvyat given another go in F1 if Hartley was to be replaced.


He is still contracted to RB so he doesn't really get a say in the matter until that contract runs out. I can't see it happening(going back to TR) but if RB cut ties with Renault anything could happen.

If they can't give him a Red Bull drive next year then that's Sainz gone to Renault.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:35 pm 
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moby wrote:
iano wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
Whatever you think of Hartley he hasn't generated the results STR would have expected by now. According to various website their options are the names listed in this Poll.

Who do you think they should go with and why?

You forgot to add 'mystery Japanese driver'.

Seems to provide a link to Honda there is a suggestion they should have a Japanese driver. Perhaps the reason they seem to usually have an Australian driver is to provide a link to Red Bull? (Mistranslated Österreich?)


It would not have to be a Japanese driver, just a driver with connections to Honda. Not nationality specific.

Alonso was driving for some years for them, who knows :-P

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 02, 2018 5:49 pm 
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I think Hartley should stay. This is his F1 debut and I'm sure he will get better as the season progresses.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Noni wrote:
I think Hartley should stay. This is his F1 debut and I'm sure he will get better as the season progresses.

Yep give the guy a chance.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 1st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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