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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:43 am 
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I read today that the top MotoGP riders (Rossi and Marquez) get paid about €11 million each; NASCAR's top-paid driver, Dale Earnhardt Jr, is allegedly only on $14.5 million (plus about $22 million in prize money and endorsements); top IndyCar drivers earn about USD$1.5M a year from their team; and the top-paid WRC driver Sebastien Ogier earns about $3.7M.

Formula One drivers, on the other hand, seem unrivaled in the motor racing realm. Sebastian Vettel is allegedly on $60 million a year. Lewis Hamilton, Kimi Raikkonen and Fernando Alonso are potentially on $50 million, $40 million and $30 million a year respectively.

I'm not here to debate "right" and "wrong", but does it seem reasonable that Sebastian Vettel allegedly gets paid more than the entire MotoGP grid combined? The FIA and Formula One are fighting a constant battle with keeping costs down, the first thing they could do is act on bringing salaries down to a level comparable to virtually any other top-tier motor racing series in the world.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:51 am 
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No

There is more money in Formula 1 because more people watch it, and hence F1 earns more money from sponsors and TV deals than NASCAR or MOTOGP.

If Ferrari feel that Sebastian Vettel is worth 60 million dollars to them, then he deserves to make that money.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:20 am 
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It's the same in many elite sports. If teams are willing to pay the wages, then that's up to them.

Having said that, the money often surprises me. It's not like even top drivers have a lot of choice about where to go, not if they want to drive the best cars. If e.g. Ferrari paid Vettel $20m less, and Mercedes did the same with Hamilton, where would they go if they didn't like it? I can't see either driver wanting to drive for Toro Rosso even if Honda stumped up the readies. Seems a little odd market dynamics to me


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:33 am 
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Yes and No.

While Max is not delivering as he should, he brings with him a virgin market. So, in his case, he is definitely worth the money.

On the other hand, Daniel is delivering, but he is not a commercial magnet ( due to bad management I would say ). He should be a marketing dream, easy going, great smile and just a very charismatic guy. So paying him the same money as for Max, would be a bad marketing decision.

But this is all about commercial and marketing aspects.

There are other aspects involved, but they are beyond my knowledge, so I really can't comment on that.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:41 am 
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Yes.

But so are all the other top sportspeople. F1 drivers aren't paid to be athletes - they're paid to be marketing assets. If Mercedes believes Hamilton adds a billion dollars in nebulous 'cool' factor to their brand, he's easily worth less than a tenth of that. And in some ways it's self-serving as well - paying him $50m actually increases his perceived status and hence marketing value, meaning that the money spent isn't exactly spent at all.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:19 am 
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Are these figures including the sponsorship deals? They do have separate deals that are sometimes included in these figures and sometimes not.

Just yesterday I was reading that Ronaldo thinks he is getting paid too little and asked just... DOUBLE from Real Madrid!

It is stupid amounts of money of course. They think that they deserve it as they only have a high-earning career until their late 30's maybe. Teams think they deserve it because they bring home more money than that. So if they are happy then I guess we shouldn't be so nosy.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:01 am 
A reduction in the drivers salary would be petty cash compared to other expences. In this article Toto Wolff says they try to get the price for one engine down in the region om 12-14 million USD, and even though the price is higher today, the engine costs is still only 5% of a big teams budget. So the drivers salary is not a big thing in the budget.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/cust ... es-943813/

Paying Vettel 60 million USD to put the team on top of the constructurs championship (which is were the big money is) and to promote Ferrari in advertisements, interviews, sponsor events etc. is probably a very reasonable price.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:23 am 
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Not really - and those figures look bogus.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:35 am 
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F1 is more high profile than MotoGP, NASCAR and the WRC, and when you compare with some other sports then no they are not over paid.

The payments very much go hand in hand with the stature of F1, now if you think that F1 is over rated then fair enough.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:49 am 
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Zoue wrote:
It's the same in many elite sports. If teams are willing to pay the wages, then that's up to them.

Having said that, the money often surprises me. It's not like even top drivers have a lot of choice about where to go, not if they want to drive the best cars. If e.g. Ferrari paid Vettel $20m less, and Mercedes did the same with Hamilton, where would they go if they didn't like it? I can't see either driver wanting to drive for Toro Rosso even if Honda stumped up the readies. Seems a little odd market dynamics to me


Yeah I do feel the top teams hold more cards than the drivers, yet, as you say, do stump up huge piles of cash to get their desired driver. I don't think this has always been the case, Frank Williams was happy to ditch WDCs who thought they could get a pay hike.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:00 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
Zoue wrote:
It's the same in many elite sports. If teams are willing to pay the wages, then that's up to them.

Having said that, the money often surprises me. It's not like even top drivers have a lot of choice about where to go, not if they want to drive the best cars. If e.g. Ferrari paid Vettel $20m less, and Mercedes did the same with Hamilton, where would they go if they didn't like it? I can't see either driver wanting to drive for Toro Rosso even if Honda stumped up the readies. Seems a little odd market dynamics to me


Yeah I do feel the top teams hold more cards than the drivers, yet, as you say, do stump up huge piles of cash to get their desired driver. I don't think this has always been the case, Frank Williams was happy to ditch WDCs who thought they could get a pay hike.

You can only really do this when you know you have the out and out fastest car and by a margin as we saw in 1995 when Schumacher beat Hill despite having an inferior car.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:11 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Zoue wrote:
It's the same in many elite sports. If teams are willing to pay the wages, then that's up to them.

Having said that, the money often surprises me. It's not like even top drivers have a lot of choice about where to go, not if they want to drive the best cars. If e.g. Ferrari paid Vettel $20m less, and Mercedes did the same with Hamilton, where would they go if they didn't like it? I can't see either driver wanting to drive for Toro Rosso even if Honda stumped up the readies. Seems a little odd market dynamics to me


Yeah I do feel the top teams hold more cards than the drivers, yet, as you say, do stump up huge piles of cash to get their desired driver. I don't think this has always been the case, Frank Williams was happy to ditch WDCs who thought they could get a pay hike.

You can only really do this when you know you have the out and out fastest car and by a margin as we saw in 1995 when Schumacher beat Hill despite having an inferior car.


Yeah without wishing to open a huge can of worms, Merc would almost certainly have cleaned up in 2014-2016 with say Rosbertg and Bottas in the car, but I'd think in 2017 Hamilton proved his worth.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:14 pm 
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The short answer is "no". F1 driver salaries are a part of a free market. They are paid a sum of money that reflects revenues generated by their work as well as other background algorithms. There is no element of charity here.

The reason NASCAR drivers make less is not that NASCAR makes less money. In fact, NASCAR generates MORE revenue than F1. The fact is that NASCAR simply has a much more equitable revenue sharing model wheres F1 simply lets all the wealthy large teams take the lion's share of the teams' cut of the profits.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:23 pm 
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Lojik wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Zoue wrote:
It's the same in many elite sports. If teams are willing to pay the wages, then that's up to them.

Having said that, the money often surprises me. It's not like even top drivers have a lot of choice about where to go, not if they want to drive the best cars. If e.g. Ferrari paid Vettel $20m less, and Mercedes did the same with Hamilton, where would they go if they didn't like it? I can't see either driver wanting to drive for Toro Rosso even if Honda stumped up the readies. Seems a little odd market dynamics to me


Yeah I do feel the top teams hold more cards than the drivers, yet, as you say, do stump up huge piles of cash to get their desired driver. I don't think this has always been the case, Frank Williams was happy to ditch WDCs who thought they could get a pay hike.

You can only really do this when you know you have the out and out fastest car and by a margin as we saw in 1995 when Schumacher beat Hill despite having an inferior car.


Yeah without wishing to open a huge can of worms, Merc would almost certainly have cleaned up in 2014-2016 with say Rosbertg and Bottas in the car, but I'd think in 2017 Hamilton proved his worth.

Also in part that's the way the teams have to think, there is no guarantee of continued dominance especially when the FIA are apt to change the rules to try and end it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:08 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Yes.

But so are all the other top sportspeople. F1 drivers aren't paid to be athletes - they're paid to be marketing assets. If Mercedes believes Hamilton adds a billion dollars in nebulous 'cool' factor to their brand, he's easily worth less than a tenth of that. And in some ways it's self-serving as well - paying him $50m actually increases his perceived status and hence marketing value, meaning that the money spent isn't exactly spent at all.

In fact all top sportspeople are paid as celebrities, where the ability is how they become a celebrity.

In almost all sports, the top tier has fame because they are the best... but if that best was at a slightly lower level as it was in the past for most sports, it would not matter really.... the best there is what matters. So if the all the drivers were a small amount faster or a small amount slower it would make no difference to the spectacle. It is not about absolute performance.... just about being the best.

For racing drivers, that is actually the very best of a very small group in global terms. The group who get the opportunity.

Is it really so important for humanity that we pay the best of this small group far 30x per year what would we pay a Nobel prize winner for medicine? All out of proportion, but just the way the world is.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:22 pm 
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Based on the latest list from Forbes, it's
#12 Lewis - 51m
#18 Seb - 42m
And #39 Fernando - 33m

The list includes the salary+endorsements
https://www.forbes.com/athletes/list/#tab:overall


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:05 pm 
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Quote:
Are F1 drivers paid too much?


Yes, IMO nobody Needs to earn more than a couple of millions (US$) per year.

But, well, the teams pay it and all fans do contribute a part as well at the end of the day, so why shouldn't they take it?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:34 pm 
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Hamilton is one of the most recognisable sportspeople in the world. I'd be amazed if anyone I knew would recognise a picture of seb ogier.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:48 pm 
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Yes F1 drivers are over paid but so are other top athletes in their respective categories. Like when a football player (nfl) hold out of attending training camp because he wants more money. Or years ago when Alex Rodriguez got a contact for 252 million for playing baseball. I agree top athletes should get a paid incentive for being better then an “average” player but these numbers now a days are astronomical. It hurts us the fans the most. With the inflation of ticket prices to go see grown men play a game, or race around a track.


Zazu wrote:
Hamilton is one of the most recognisable sportspeople in the world. I'd be amazed if anyone I knew would recognise a picture of seb ogier.


Agreed Hamilton is up there in fame but he’s not as recognizable world wide as someone like Michael Jordan or Mike Tyson. Most celebrities are very well known by the fans who follow them or whatever sport they are part of. I’m sure we all know people who wouldn’t recognize a picture of a top f1 driver without their race suit on or much less in real life.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:22 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Yes.

But so are all the other top sportspeople. F1 drivers aren't paid to be athletes - they're paid to be marketing assets. If Mercedes believes Hamilton adds a billion dollars in nebulous 'cool' factor to their brand, he's easily worth less than a tenth of that. And in some ways it's self-serving as well - paying him $50m actually increases his perceived status and hence marketing value, meaning that the money spent isn't exactly spent at all.

Sorry but that couldn’t be farther from the truth. Top teams pay the big bucks to the drivers they feel will contribute to the win on Sunday, Sell on Monday mantra that has been the biggest motivation for manufacturers to compete in Motorsport.

They wouldn’t get David Beckham or Justin Timberlake to pilot one of their cars and they’d attract more eyes to F1 than the top 3 guys combined!

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:32 am 
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Well the OP definitely opened a can of worms...

On one hand, the top drivers get paid what the market (teams) are willing to pay for them. Their pays are high on the scale of sportspeople, but they also have a much riskier job than most. Their actual professional career is also relatively short, from the time they begin getting paid as a professional driver to the time they retire.

They don't get paid more than football (soccer) players, which are grossly massive salaries in my opinion.

The reason they get paid so much really comes down to the money Formula 1 teams generate, which is driven by sponsorship and TV rights. These are massively high because Formula 1 draws a large spectator market from a demographic that is willing to spend more.

The big F1 markets are Europe, UK, USA, Australia and parts of Asia. Reasonably wealthy populations.

The TV stations can pay large amounts for the rights because advertisers are willing to pay large amounts for ads during F1 telecasts. Subsequently, advertisers are willing to pay more because F1 spectators are usually cashed up and do buy their products. The advertising works.

The more recent revenue generation is from Pay TV providers, who are willing to go above and beyond for TV rights because their subscribers are willing to pay a premium for the coverage.

In the end, it's your credit card and wallet paying for the drivers' high salaries.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:31 am 
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If one was to graph talent against salary, in the world of motorsport, it would be a curve that suddenly peaks in an insane fashion. Drivers who may be 1% lesser than a Formula One driver can earn a salary only 10% of what a Formula One driver can earn.

IMO salary is not directly proportional to abilities, because in the big leagues the entertainment factor comes into play. I know people who have more talent than some current pop stars. The difference between these two parties is exposure. And those people command an insane salary, not based in abilities but how well they are known, and what fans they can attract.

It's entertainment.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 9:04 am 
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That's the same in most sports and industries. A multi million pound race horse is only fractionally better than the one it beats but value is miles higher

F1 is a bit unique as the car is so dominant. But take basket all for example, lebron James takes any team from OK to championship contenders. Also gets huge exposure and sell out crowds. His salary would be astronomical if there was no salary cap.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:14 am 
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I totally agree that marketing plays its part, and it is a huge one.

if you open the atp wta payment debate, there are 2 ways of seeing it :

1. Both play their part in entertainment and both contribute equally to the show. So in this sense, they should be paid the same.

2. The other part is sponsors. If I'd be a sponsor for Rolland Garros, I would check the mens figures, just because more people watch the men playing. If that is good or bad, don't ask me. But it's reality.

So coming back to our lovely sport, why would you pay for a driver if not many people follow him particularly?

On this subject I have 2 other points before moving forward:

1. Lewis Hamilton is known worldwide, but don't even think for one moment he is box office. The USA effort failed miserably, and as a marketing tool, he is more hype than actual marketing tool. So as a marketing asset, he is not really that interesting. I would say too expensive for what he can deliver.

2. F1 as a marketing tool is weaker than you might imagine. Bernie is a salesman, these guys are entertainment people. What the first one understood and these guys don't, is that the potential market is actually smaller than one might imagine.

Bernie always knew that we are a limited public, and we are not growing as one could imagine. So he always focused on personal individuals for sponsorship. What this means is going to that person on the board who actually loves F1. It's not so much a marketing decision, rather than asking for money from the right people.

There is a reason why all other team principals left Bernie in charge. It was because they wanted to go racing. And Bernie found the financial means for them to go racing.

Now with Liberty, they have their own view. I must say that I kind of see it as Bernie does. But maybe Liberty might surprise a lot of people.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:07 am 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Yes.

But so are all the other top sportspeople. F1 drivers aren't paid to be athletes - they're paid to be marketing assets. If Mercedes believes Hamilton adds a billion dollars in nebulous 'cool' factor to their brand, he's easily worth less than a tenth of that. And in some ways it's self-serving as well - paying him $50m actually increases his perceived status and hence marketing value, meaning that the money spent isn't exactly spent at all.

Sorry but that couldn’t be farther from the truth. Top teams pay the big bucks to the drivers they feel will contribute to the win on Sunday, Sell on Monday mantra that has been the biggest motivation for manufacturers to compete in Motorsport.

They wouldn’t get David Beckham or Justin Timberlake to pilot one of their cars and they’d attract more eyes to F1 than the top 3 guys combined!

IMO both views are partially correct.
Having the best drivers is a must for winning, but having the best driver for marketing is a must for sponsorship revenue.
If you had a choice of two drivers of similar talent and one was a marketing dream, the other a nightmare, all things within the development of the car/driving/anything else the team wants to win the championship being equal which would they choose?

Then consider a team could get X million pounds more for a driver 0.3 seconds slower and they think this money could make the car 0.5 seconds faster, would you go for the faster driver or the faster package?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:11 am 
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dompclarke wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Yes.

But so are all the other top sportspeople. F1 drivers aren't paid to be athletes - they're paid to be marketing assets. If Mercedes believes Hamilton adds a billion dollars in nebulous 'cool' factor to their brand, he's easily worth less than a tenth of that. And in some ways it's self-serving as well - paying him $50m actually increases his perceived status and hence marketing value, meaning that the money spent isn't exactly spent at all.

Sorry but that couldn’t be farther from the truth. Top teams pay the big bucks to the drivers they feel will contribute to the win on Sunday, Sell on Monday mantra that has been the biggest motivation for manufacturers to compete in Motorsport.

They wouldn’t get David Beckham or Justin Timberlake to pilot one of their cars and they’d attract more eyes to F1 than the top 3 guys combined!

IMO both views are partially correct.
Having the best drivers is a must for winning, but having the best driver for marketing is a must for sponsorship revenue.
If you had a choice of two drivers of similar talent and one was a marketing dream, the other a nightmare, all things within the development of the car/driving/anything else the team wants to win the championship being equal which would they choose?

Then consider a team could get X million pounds more for a driver 0.3 seconds slower and they think this money could make the car 0.5 seconds faster, would you go for the faster driver or the faster package?

while I can see where you're coming from, I don't think it's that simple to judge potential improvements. If a driver is 0.3s slower, IMO a top team will always choose the faster driver, rather than hope that developments may bring an extra 0.5s. A bird in the hand, and all that


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:17 am 
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Zoue wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Yes.

But so are all the other top sportspeople. F1 drivers aren't paid to be athletes - they're paid to be marketing assets. If Mercedes believes Hamilton adds a billion dollars in nebulous 'cool' factor to their brand, he's easily worth less than a tenth of that. And in some ways it's self-serving as well - paying him $50m actually increases his perceived status and hence marketing value, meaning that the money spent isn't exactly spent at all.

Sorry but that couldn’t be farther from the truth. Top teams pay the big bucks to the drivers they feel will contribute to the win on Sunday, Sell on Monday mantra that has been the biggest motivation for manufacturers to compete in Motorsport.

They wouldn’t get David Beckham or Justin Timberlake to pilot one of their cars and they’d attract more eyes to F1 than the top 3 guys combined!

IMO both views are partially correct.
Having the best drivers is a must for winning, but having the best driver for marketing is a must for sponsorship revenue.
If you had a choice of two drivers of similar talent and one was a marketing dream, the other a nightmare, all things within the development of the car/driving/anything else the team wants to win the championship being equal which would they choose?

Then consider a team could get X million pounds more for a driver 0.3 seconds slower and they think this money could make the car 0.5 seconds faster, would you go for the faster driver or the faster package?

while I can see where you're coming from, I don't think it's that simple to judge potential improvements. If a driver is 0.3s slower, IMO a top team will always choose the faster driver, rather than hope that developments may bring an extra 0.5s. A bird in the hand, and all that

Was just picking arbitrary numbers to be honest, it has been seen many times teams do think they are better with money for the car (and I'm ignoring Frank as he just wanted to prove it was the car rather than doing it for development reasons)

edit:
though it has also been seen they'll throw money for the best driver too...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:22 am 
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dompclarke wrote:
Zoue wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Yes.

But so are all the other top sportspeople. F1 drivers aren't paid to be athletes - they're paid to be marketing assets. If Mercedes believes Hamilton adds a billion dollars in nebulous 'cool' factor to their brand, he's easily worth less than a tenth of that. And in some ways it's self-serving as well - paying him $50m actually increases his perceived status and hence marketing value, meaning that the money spent isn't exactly spent at all.

Sorry but that couldn’t be farther from the truth. Top teams pay the big bucks to the drivers they feel will contribute to the win on Sunday, Sell on Monday mantra that has been the biggest motivation for manufacturers to compete in Motorsport.

They wouldn’t get David Beckham or Justin Timberlake to pilot one of their cars and they’d attract more eyes to F1 than the top 3 guys combined!

IMO both views are partially correct.
Having the best drivers is a must for winning, but having the best driver for marketing is a must for sponsorship revenue.
If you had a choice of two drivers of similar talent and one was a marketing dream, the other a nightmare, all things within the development of the car/driving/anything else the team wants to win the championship being equal which would they choose?

Then consider a team could get X million pounds more for a driver 0.3 seconds slower and they think this money could make the car 0.5 seconds faster, would you go for the faster driver or the faster package?

while I can see where you're coming from, I don't think it's that simple to judge potential improvements. If a driver is 0.3s slower, IMO a top team will always choose the faster driver, rather than hope that developments may bring an extra 0.5s. A bird in the hand, and all that

Was just picking arbitrary numbers to be honest, it has been seen many times teams do think they are better with money for the car (and I'm ignoring Frank as he just wanted to prove it was the car rather than doing it for development reasons)

edit:
though it has also been seen they'll throw money for the best driver too...

yeah, I realise that and should have said. I know you were just illustrating the point but I do feel that top teams would always choose talent over money. I do agree lower placed teams might struggle more with the decision and the money may talk then, but there again we're not likely to be talking about overblown salaries with those teams anyway. The likes of McLaren, Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull will IMO always prioritise driving performance.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:42 am 
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Sportstars aren't paid for taking part. They are paid a percentage of the rewards just like a company director or owner. That's how business people make money.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:57 pm 
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I also find the marketing angle to be somewhat dubious. I see a lot of comments in this thread about Hamilton being the most marketable but I have actually never seen an F1 driver that is a real draw in and of himself. Ayrton Senna was perhaps the only one where a lot of people wanted to see him in particular. It's not that these guys don't have fans. They do but the fans tend to be people who were already F1 fans and then decided for some reason to support this particular driver. I don't know to what extent any of these guys brings new fans to the sport.

Michael Schumacher really changed the game as far as money is concerned. Those big contracts he signed while driving for Ferrari became the template that the likes of Alonso, Raikkonen, Hamilton and Vettel have based their demands on. For the big teams, F1 is not something they look to make a profit from. It's considered a marketing expense and also an R&D expense. To pay top dollar for the best drivers is something that they do happily.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:42 pm 
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robins13 wrote:
Based on the latest list from Forbes, it's
#12 Lewis - 51m
#18 Seb - 42m
And #39 Fernando - 33m

The list includes the salary+endorsements
https://www.forbes.com/athletes/list/#tab:overall

You know as a F1 fan don't you want to see the best drivers towards the top of that list, it highlights the standing of the sport.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:21 pm 
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Mayhem wrote:
Yes F1 drivers are over paid but so are other top athletes in their respective categories. Like when a football player (nfl) hold out of attending training camp because he wants more money. Or years ago when Alex Rodriguez got a contact for 252 million for playing baseball. I agree top athletes should get a paid incentive for being better then an “average” player but these numbers now a days are astronomical. It hurts us the fans the most. With the inflation of ticket prices to go see grown men play a game, or race around a track.


Zazu wrote:
Hamilton is one of the most recognisable sportspeople in the world. I'd be amazed if anyone I knew would recognise a picture of seb ogier.


Agreed Hamilton is up there in fame but he’s not as recognizable world wide as someone like Michael Jordan or Mike Tyson. Most celebrities are very well known by the fans who follow them or whatever sport they are part of. I’m sure we all know people who wouldn’t recognize a picture of a top f1 driver without their race suit on or much less in real life.


i disagree, one doesnt need to follow a sport to know who the top guns are.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:38 pm 
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I feel sport in general pays way too much. Back in the 50s and 70s, sports people were paid average sums of money.. Though the media and sponsorship deals have helped these values increase enormously and sometimes well deserved... Sometimes the separation of a particular talent is huge compared to his rival?... The lower teams in F1 pay their drivers peanuts in comparison to the top teams. Not sure why a couple of drivers make, lets say 1m a year and a top driver makes between 10m - 60m a year.. This gap is huge. I feel the lesser drivers should get more on their performance if they deliver the goods..

For example basic salary, plus bonus's if they score valid points and extra money for the win and pole positions... So some of the mid team drivers could make more then their contract says on paper.

Though this argument only exists if their teams can cough up the money in the first place.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:05 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
No

There is more money in Formula 1 because more people watch it, and hence F1 earns more money from sponsors and TV deals than NASCAR or MOTOGP.

If Ferrari feel that Sebastian Vettel is worth 60 million dollars to them, then he deserves to make that money.


Agreed.

They change their life style too. Want to know the diet for my job? none. Want to know the diet for 99% of all the jobs? none. F1 drivers like a lot of sports stars change their diets. They don't race 20 times a year, they sim train 50times a year, promote for 50 times, gym 50 times etc.

They also risk their lives to entertain us, in the spot light 24/7. Lewis Hamilton gets pulled over in Australia for his... slight wheel spin and even Mark Webber called it the nanny state.. the press? oh they had a field day.. for something we'd do and no one would care (except the officer of course).

No. They are not paid too much. It's an expensive sport and the teams want the best drivers. That involves money.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Teddy007 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
No

There is more money in Formula 1 because more people watch it, and hence F1 earns more money from sponsors and TV deals than NASCAR or MOTOGP.

If Ferrari feel that Sebastian Vettel is worth 60 million dollars to them, then he deserves to make that money.


Agreed.

They change their life style too. Want to know the diet for my job? none. Want to know the diet for 99% of all the jobs? none. F1 drivers like a lot of sports stars change their diets. They don't race 20 times a year, they sim train 50times a year, promote for 50 times, gym 50 times etc.

They also risk their lives to entertain us, in the spot light 24/7. Lewis Hamilton gets pulled over in Australia for his... slight wheel spin and even Mark Webber called it the nanny state.. the press? oh they had a field day.. for something we'd do and no one would care (except the officer of course).

No. They are not paid too much. It's an expensive sport and the teams want the best drivers. That involves money.


I was in partial agreement until the second paragraph. I know of many amateur athletes who maintain a rigorous training schedule. Heck, back in my baseball days we used to train ten hours a week indoors during the winter. And that was additional to the two hours a day pumping iron and jogging.

But that "slight wheel spin" was done on the public roads, where EVERYONE is subject to the law and is held accountable. Just because someone is famous they do not get a free pass. It gets crazier because every Formula One driver is bound to the FIA's "Action for Road Safety" program. They are expected to be the leaders in displaying how one conducts themselves in a safe manner on public roads.

If one wishes to conduct themselves as an irresponsible jerk, then the police have tickets for irresponsible jerks.

The high drivers salaries for the top drivers in Formula One are not mapped to talent or abilities. A very good driver can make a million a year, to assume that a driver who is just 2% better deserves an income 5,000% more is not logical.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:09 pm 
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Are F1 drivers paid too much?

Yes they are. But the teams are paid too much, too. The sanctioning body and the promoters take too much, too. It's the whole package. Everyone is paid too much.

The result? The price of a Formula One ticket is beyond insane. Normal families of five don't go to F1 races.

People complain about the circus in Monaco. But if ticket pries continue to soar, the only race left will be Monaco, because it's the only venue that caters to a class that can afford to go.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:21 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Are F1 drivers paid too much?

Yes they are. But the teams are paid too much, too. The sanctioning body and the promoters take too much, too. It's the whole package. Everyone is paid too much.

The result? The price of a Formula One ticket is beyond insane. Normal families of five don't go to F1 races.

People complain about the circus in Monaco. But if ticket pries continue to soar, the only race left will be Monaco, because it's the only venue that caters to a class that can afford to go.


They are aiming to be the elite, the Rolls type rather than Tesco type of business. And it's not only the tickets they sell, it is the TV rights that bring most of the income I think.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
No

There is more money in Formula 1 because more people watch it, and hence F1 earns more money from sponsors and TV deals than NASCAR or MOTOGP.

If Ferrari feel that Sebastian Vettel is worth 60 million dollars to them, then he deserves to make that money.


Agreed.

They change their life style too. Want to know the diet for my job? none. Want to know the diet for 99% of all the jobs? none. F1 drivers like a lot of sports stars change their diets. They don't race 20 times a year, they sim train 50times a year, promote for 50 times, gym 50 times etc.

They also risk their lives to entertain us, in the spot light 24/7. Lewis Hamilton gets pulled over in Australia for his... slight wheel spin and even Mark Webber called it the nanny state.. the press? oh they had a field day.. for something we'd do and no one would care (except the officer of course).

No. They are not paid too much. It's an expensive sport and the teams want the best drivers. That involves money.


I was in partial agreement until the second paragraph. I know of many amateur athletes who maintain a rigorous training schedule. Heck, back in my baseball days we used to train ten hours a week indoors during the winter. And that was additional to the two hours a day pumping iron and jogging.

But that "slight wheel spin" was done on the public roads, where EVERYONE is subject to the law and is held accountable. Just because someone is famous they do not get a free pass. It gets crazier because every Formula One driver is bound to the FIA's "Action for Road Safety" program. They are expected to be the leaders in displaying how one conducts themselves in a safe manner on public roads.

If one wishes to conduct themselves as an irresponsible jerk, then the police have tickets for irresponsible jerks.

The high drivers salaries for the top drivers in Formula One are not mapped to talent or abilities. A very good driver can make a million a year, to assume that a driver who is just 2% better deserves an income 5,000% more is not logical.

Much as I agree the wheelspin was silly and he shouldn't have done it (setting examples etc etc), an F1 driver doing what he did is safer than a lot of drivers driving within the law!


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:29 pm 
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dompclarke wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
No

There is more money in Formula 1 because more people watch it, and hence F1 earns more money from sponsors and TV deals than NASCAR or MOTOGP.

If Ferrari feel that Sebastian Vettel is worth 60 million dollars to them, then he deserves to make that money.


Agreed.

They change their life style too. Want to know the diet for my job? none. Want to know the diet for 99% of all the jobs? none. F1 drivers like a lot of sports stars change their diets. They don't race 20 times a year, they sim train 50times a year, promote for 50 times, gym 50 times etc.

They also risk their lives to entertain us, in the spot light 24/7. Lewis Hamilton gets pulled over in Australia for his... slight wheel spin and even Mark Webber called it the nanny state.. the press? oh they had a field day.. for something we'd do and no one would care (except the officer of course).

No. They are not paid too much. It's an expensive sport and the teams want the best drivers. That involves money.


I was in partial agreement until the second paragraph. I know of many amateur athletes who maintain a rigorous training schedule. Heck, back in my baseball days we used to train ten hours a week indoors during the winter. And that was additional to the two hours a day pumping iron and jogging.

But that "slight wheel spin" was done on the public roads, where EVERYONE is subject to the law and is held accountable. Just because someone is famous they do not get a free pass. It gets crazier because every Formula One driver is bound to the FIA's "Action for Road Safety" program. They are expected to be the leaders in displaying how one conducts themselves in a safe manner on public roads.

If one wishes to conduct themselves as an irresponsible jerk, then the police have tickets for irresponsible jerks.

The high drivers salaries for the top drivers in Formula One are not mapped to talent or abilities. A very good driver can make a million a year, to assume that a driver who is just 2% better deserves an income 5,000% more is not logical.

Much as I agree the wheelspin was silly and he shouldn't have done it (setting examples etc etc), an F1 driver doing what he did is safer than a lot of drivers driving within the law!


The laws are not set up for the limits of any individual, but for everyone.

In 2015 Lewis Hamilton crashed his Zonda in Monaco just before the US Grand Prix (Where he won the 2015 world championship).

He crashed into parked cars. Even one of the most skilled drivers of all time crashed on a public area.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:13 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Are F1 drivers paid too much?

Yes they are. But the teams are paid too much, too. The sanctioning body and the promoters take too much, too. It's the whole package. Everyone is paid too much.

The result? The price of a Formula One ticket is beyond insane. Normal families of five don't go to F1 races.

People complain about the circus in Monaco. But if ticket pries continue to soar, the only race left will be Monaco, because it's the only venue that caters to a class that can afford to go.


^

I agree!.... Ticket prices have insanely blown out of proportion. Most of the F1 drivers on the grid have made comments about the huge costs to fans and it seems only the elite can go and watch.


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