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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:19 pm 
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Blinky McSquinty wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
Blinky McSquinty wrote:
Teddy007 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
No

There is more money in Formula 1 because more people watch it, and hence F1 earns more money from sponsors and TV deals than NASCAR or MOTOGP.

If Ferrari feel that Sebastian Vettel is worth 60 million dollars to them, then he deserves to make that money.


Agreed.

They change their life style too. Want to know the diet for my job? none. Want to know the diet for 99% of all the jobs? none. F1 drivers like a lot of sports stars change their diets. They don't race 20 times a year, they sim train 50times a year, promote for 50 times, gym 50 times etc.

They also risk their lives to entertain us, in the spot light 24/7. Lewis Hamilton gets pulled over in Australia for his... slight wheel spin and even Mark Webber called it the nanny state.. the press? oh they had a field day.. for something we'd do and no one would care (except the officer of course).

No. They are not paid too much. It's an expensive sport and the teams want the best drivers. That involves money.


I was in partial agreement until the second paragraph. I know of many amateur athletes who maintain a rigorous training schedule. Heck, back in my baseball days we used to train ten hours a week indoors during the winter. And that was additional to the two hours a day pumping iron and jogging.

But that "slight wheel spin" was done on the public roads, where EVERYONE is subject to the law and is held accountable. Just because someone is famous they do not get a free pass. It gets crazier because every Formula One driver is bound to the FIA's "Action for Road Safety" program. They are expected to be the leaders in displaying how one conducts themselves in a safe manner on public roads.

If one wishes to conduct themselves as an irresponsible jerk, then the police have tickets for irresponsible jerks.

The high drivers salaries for the top drivers in Formula One are not mapped to talent or abilities. A very good driver can make a million a year, to assume that a driver who is just 2% better deserves an income 5,000% more is not logical.

Much as I agree the wheelspin was silly and he shouldn't have done it (setting examples etc etc), an F1 driver doing what he did is safer than a lot of drivers driving within the law!


The laws are not set up for the limits of any individual, but for everyone.

In 2015 Lewis Hamilton crashed his Zonda in Monaco just before the US Grand Prix (Where he won the 2015 world championship).

He crashed into parked cars. Even one of the most skilled drivers of all time crashed on a public area.

Which is why I said he shouldn't have done it :uhoh:


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:34 am 
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Of course the drivers are paid too much, not that anybody (myself included) care one way or the other.

Is Max paid more than Adrian? That would be the real stunner for me.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:56 am 
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https://www.totalsportek.com/f1/formula ... -revealed/

According to this 1/3 of the grid earn leas than $1m, a third of the grid earn between $1m and $5m, and a third earn more than $5m.

So, when you look at it like that...

Is Lewis Hamilton 10x better than Perez?

But how many people now who Sergio Perez is (outside of Mexico)?

What is baffling is that Alonso can still earn so much money. Especially as someone pointed out above, there's so few top cars to drive that the teams hold all the cards.

Then you have Dan, who is (supposedly) earning $6.5m (to Max's $3m... hang on I thought Max was earning more?), he's the hot property but if he can't get in a Ferrari or a Merc he's stuck with Red Bull. So surely RB could offer him 3yrs at RB on $7m a year and he wouldn't really have any option.

Is it too cynical to say that for F1 to be perceived as the 'ultimate' motor sport, it 'NEEDS' to have overpaid drivers? But it only needs about 3-4 to pull off the illusion? As others have said, and I have said in the past, if you want the big bucks you need to become a 'personality', the differences in ability between these guys is marginal - so why these guys don't invest in themselves by putting themselves out there more is a mystery to me.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:23 pm 
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^

I suppose the argument for some of these high paid drivers is wether they have a world title or wins under their belt. Those 1/3 of the drivers have won grand prix's or world titles. The rest are battling for points. Like most aspects of life , luck plays a huge factor for most of us, not just talent.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:27 pm 
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IMO in all sports are way too much rewards.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:32 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
https://www.totalsportek.com/f1/formula-1-driver-salaries-revealed/

According to this 1/3 of the grid earn leas than $1m, a third of the grid earn between $1m and $5m, and a third earn more than $5m.

So, when you look at it like that...

Is Lewis Hamilton 10x better than Perez?

But how many people now who Sergio Perez is (outside of Mexico)?

What is baffling is that Alonso can still earn so much money. Especially as someone pointed out above, there's so few top cars to drive that the teams hold all the cards.

Then you have Dan, who is (supposedly) earning $6.5m (to Max's $3m... hang on I thought Max was earning more?), he's the hot property but if he can't get in a Ferrari or a Merc he's stuck with Red Bull. So surely RB could offer him 3yrs at RB on $7m a year and he wouldn't really have any option.

Is it too cynical to say that for F1 to be perceived as the 'ultimate' motor sport, it 'NEEDS' to have overpaid drivers? But it only needs about 3-4 to pull off the illusion? As others have said, and I have said in the past, if you want the big bucks you need to become a 'personality', the differences in ability between these guys is marginal - so why these guys don't invest in themselves by putting themselves out there more is a mystery to me.

tbh, I think Alonso is a prime example of why the top guys get the big bucks. As I think mikeyg123 pointed out earlier, if he carries on accumulating the points like he has been doing, he'll almost single-handedly be responsible for bumping McLaren up a couple of places in the WCC,k which in turn will pay for his salary


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:33 pm 
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Bacus wrote:
IMO in all sports are way too much rewards.


However, that is the money which is being generated by and large, and so who should pocket the money and with what weighting? Because typically the players and competitors in sport get shafted comparatively to the higher ups - at least some would argue.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:14 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
ALESI wrote:
https://www.totalsportek.com/f1/formula-1-driver-salaries-revealed/

According to this 1/3 of the grid earn leas than $1m, a third of the grid earn between $1m and $5m, and a third earn more than $5m.

So, when you look at it like that...

Is Lewis Hamilton 10x better than Perez?

But how many people now who Sergio Perez is (outside of Mexico)?

What is baffling is that Alonso can still earn so much money. Especially as someone pointed out above, there's so few top cars to drive that the teams hold all the cards.

Then you have Dan, who is (supposedly) earning $6.5m (to Max's $3m... hang on I thought Max was earning more?), he's the hot property but if he can't get in a Ferrari or a Merc he's stuck with Red Bull. So surely RB could offer him 3yrs at RB on $7m a year and he wouldn't really have any option.

Is it too cynical to say that for F1 to be perceived as the 'ultimate' motor sport, it 'NEEDS' to have overpaid drivers? But it only needs about 3-4 to pull off the illusion? As others have said, and I have said in the past, if you want the big bucks you need to become a 'personality', the differences in ability between these guys is marginal - so why these guys don't invest in themselves by putting themselves out there more is a mystery to me.

tbh, I think Alonso is a prime example of why the top guys get the big bucks. As I think mikeyg123 pointed out earlier, if he carries on accumulating the points like he has been doing, he'll almost single-handedly be responsible for bumping McLaren up a couple of places in the WCC,k which in turn will pay for his salary


True, but on the other hand, why on earth were they paying him $50m or whatever it was when the car was absolute rubbish? What a waste of money, and really... again, did they really need to pay that much to get him? I know Honda wanted Alonso but by hiring him it just put even more of a spotlight on how useless there were.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:42 am 
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If you subscribe to the theory that there is no such thing as unearned income then they are not overpaid.

But if you do believe there is such thing as unearned income, then for sure (to use an F1ism) they are overrated, along with football prima donnas, and other professional sportsmen.

The difference in salaries between the drivers does not in any meaningful or accurate way reflect the actual difference in talent or hard work. If driver A receives 20 million dollars per year and driver B receives 5 million dollars per year, it is really hard to argue this is justified because driver A is four times as talented as driver B, or that he works five times are hard as driver B.

Also we should bear in mind that a lot of talent never really makes it to the F1. A lot of people say that the best drivers rise to the top and so on. But for every successful driver who transitions to F1, there are probably one hundred more who never make it, not necessarily due to lack of skill, or talent or hard work. Probably chance and circumstances play a more important role, but in retrospect the drivers themselves, their promoters, their agents and their employers justify the expenses by this nice fairy-tale of hard work and talent being rewarded. They forget to mention the Hamiltons and Verstappens who never had a chance to prove themselves.

It's all make-believe.

And this relates only to the differences between the drivers. If we start comparing drivers to the actual engineers and designers, then things get even more fun. In which universe drivers work harder than the engineers? In their respective field, I would say engineers work at least as hard as the drivers. Yet what is the compensation for the engineers? I don't have the data, but I think we all know the answer.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:29 am 
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FrusEldar wrote:
The difference in salaries between the drivers does not in any meaningful or accurate way reflect the actual difference in talent or hard work. If driver A receives 20 million dollars per year and driver B receives 5 million dollars per year, it is really hard to argue this is justified because driver A is four times as talented as driver B, or that he works five times are hard as driver B.

Looking at prize money from 2017 the difference between finishing first and second in the championship was 13.7 million (I'm assuming dollars but the table doesn't say http://thenewswheel.com/how-the-formula ... e-in-2021/)

Assuming you believe driver A will mean you are likely to get first place and driver B means likely second then that justifies most of the difference, add to that the extra advertising revenue you can generate from finishing first and the value to current sponsors and owners driver A is worth the extra cash!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 11:33 am 
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dompclarke wrote:
FrusEldar wrote:
The difference in salaries between the drivers does not in any meaningful or accurate way reflect the actual difference in talent or hard work. If driver A receives 20 million dollars per year and driver B receives 5 million dollars per year, it is really hard to argue this is justified because driver A is four times as talented as driver B, or that he works five times are hard as driver B.

Looking at prize money from 2017 the difference between finishing first and second in the championship was 13.7 million (I'm assuming dollars but the table doesn't say http://thenewswheel.com/how-the-formula ... e-in-2021/)

Assuming you believe driver A will mean you are likely to get first place and driver B means likely second then that justifies most of the difference, add to that the extra advertising revenue you can generate from finishing first and the value to current sponsors and owners driver A is worth the extra cash!

Add to that the ability to attract better engineers to the team both through having a well regarded driver and doing well, which will help the team compete at the top for a while (hopefully)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:56 am 
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dompclarke wrote:
FrusEldar wrote:
The difference in salaries between the drivers does not in any meaningful or accurate way reflect the actual difference in talent or hard work. If driver A receives 20 million dollars per year and driver B receives 5 million dollars per year, it is really hard to argue this is justified because driver A is four times as talented as driver B, or that he works five times are hard as driver B.

Looking at prize money from 2017 the difference between finishing first and second in the championship was 13.7 million (I'm assuming dollars but the table doesn't say http://thenewswheel.com/how-the-formula ... e-in-2021/)

Assuming you believe driver A will mean you are likely to get first place and driver B means likely second then that justifies most of the difference, add to that the extra advertising revenue you can generate from finishing first and the value to current sponsors and owners driver A is worth the extra cash!


That would be a good argument if the cars were equal and the drivers where what made the difference. A driver might make a meaningful difference now and again, but overall the cars themselves determine the WCC.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:50 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
dompclarke wrote:
FrusEldar wrote:
The difference in salaries between the drivers does not in any meaningful or accurate way reflect the actual difference in talent or hard work. If driver A receives 20 million dollars per year and driver B receives 5 million dollars per year, it is really hard to argue this is justified because driver A is four times as talented as driver B, or that he works five times are hard as driver B.

Looking at prize money from 2017 the difference between finishing first and second in the championship was 13.7 million (I'm assuming dollars but the table doesn't say http://thenewswheel.com/how-the-formula ... e-in-2021/)

Assuming you believe driver A will mean you are likely to get first place and driver B means likely second then that justifies most of the difference, add to that the extra advertising revenue you can generate from finishing first and the value to current sponsors and owners driver A is worth the extra cash!


That would be a good argument if the cars were equal and the drivers where what made the difference. A driver might make a meaningful difference now and again, but overall the cars themselves determine the WCC.

Well looking how close last year was between Vettel and Hamilton and how close this year looks to be shaping up to be it seems like a good argument. If either Ferrari or Merc had replaced their driver with Stroll it would have been a walkover for the other team in 2017...


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:01 am 
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Beyond the driver of MB, Ferrari and Red Bull, I suspect that Alonso is the only other driver that gets paid.

The rest have to bring in various levels of sponsorship to be able to buy their seat - if they crash enough even that sponsorship can't save them

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 16, 2018 4:21 am 
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Free market my butt. Yes they are paid way to much. Good teachers should get 20 million and F1 drivers should get 15 bucks an hour. Maybe it's just me but the intrinsic value of a good teacher and their resultant impact on society is clearly of more value that a person with gryos in their pants.

You know, what's worth more a platinum GMT master or a bag of corn seeds.


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