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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:52 pm 
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With the regulations set for a change to make it easier for new suppliers to join, I wanted to see which manufacturers us fans would most like to see in F1, and the reason why.

Personally, I'd love to see Porsche and BMW enter - they probably are the 2 best engine manufacturers in the world (IMO), and a championship without either one of them making engines seems to be missing something for me.

Would also love to see an American car company (Ford, or a GM brand perhaps?) enter - say what you want about their cars, but the engines are generally the focal point of the experience [and they make some really good ones - though the smaller size might dissuade them ("only water and milk come in 2 liters :D )].

Perhaps Toyota/Hyundai? Jaguar?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:26 pm 
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I think it's only relevant if the engine manufacturers are actually competing against one another, if they have to run close to a spec or a performance parameter then it's just an engine with a different sticker on it hence why Renault hardly got a mention during the Red Bull years.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:31 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
I think it's only relevant if the engine manufacturers are actually competing against one another, if they have to run close to a spec or a performance parameter then it's just an engine with a different sticker on it hence why Renault hardly got a mention during the Red Bull years.


I agree - would love to see a development war like in the early 00's between BMW/Merc/Ferrari/Toyota/Honda, but I doubt we'll get that in today's F1 environment.

Still, there is scope for engine manufacturers to have a differentiated product (the Renault V8 drivability, the Merc efficiency in this era, the BMW's raw power with the V10).


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:32 pm 
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I'd love to see Porsche or Lambo from VAG, Aston in collaboration with Illmor or suchlike, Toyota would be great too but they got burned badly last time. A big Ford effort would be great too.

I think someone from Volkswagen will enter as a works team buying Force India, probably Porsche. Aston will partner an existing team with some collaboration, either Illmor or Cosworth and partner McLaren or Williams if Red Bull are with Honda.

But that's about it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:32 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
I think it's only relevant if the engine manufacturers are actually competing against one another, if they have to run close to a spec or a performance parameter then it's just an engine with a different sticker on it hence why Renault hardly got a mention during the Red Bull years.


What do you mean? The constructor in the Red Bull years was entered as Red Bull Racing Renault. Renault got a big mention and they were the engine that gave Red Bull the ability to run the hot and the cold blow diffuser.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:34 pm 
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They (Renault) also chose to promote Infinity, they could've done something different if they wanted Renault itself anymore visible.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:35 pm 
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I am still thinking that until the Honda experiment proves successful, engine manufacturers will think twice about this.

The engines nowadays are not as "simple" as before, they are rather power plants. Many things can go wrong and if a company like Honda can get it wrong, then it will be very difficult to fix, let alone the negative publicity.

I'd love VW to get in though, no idea why!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:39 pm 
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A.J. wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it's only relevant if the engine manufacturers are actually competing against one another, if they have to run close to a spec or a performance parameter then it's just an engine with a different sticker on it hence why Renault hardly got a mention during the Red Bull years.


I agree - would love to see a development war like in the early 00's between BMW/Merc/Ferrari/Toyota/Honda, but I doubt we'll get that in today's F1 environment.

Still, there is scope for engine manufacturers to have a differentiated product (the Renault V8 drivability, the Merc efficiency in this era, the BMW's raw power with the V10).

The biggest differentiator I believe was that the Renault V8 was allowed an equalising performance upgrade were they were able to sneak in their exhaust blown technology which neither Mercedes or Ferrari were able to copy because their engines were frozen in development.

The V10 era was actually an engine war, marvelous engines.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:41 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it's only relevant if the engine manufacturers are actually competing against one another, if they have to run close to a spec or a performance parameter then it's just an engine with a different sticker on it hence why Renault hardly got a mention during the Red Bull years.


What do you mean? The constructor in the Red Bull years was entered as Red Bull Racing Renault. Renault got a big mention and they were the engine that gave Red Bull the ability to run the hot and the cold blow diffuser.

At the time Red Bull got the credit, I never heard said that the engine won the race for them like we hear nowadays.

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2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
I am still thinking that until the Honda experiment proves successful, engine manufacturers will think twice about this.

The engines nowadays are not as "simple" as before, they are rather power plants. Many things can go wrong and if a company like Honda can get it wrong, then it will be very difficult to fix, let alone the negative publicity.

I'd love VW to get in though, no idea why!


The main source of the difficulty is the mgu-h and new lean burn techniques this era brought but there will be no 'h' and the lean burn is well known now for 3 years so won't surprise anyone. It's just a 1.6ltr V6 Turbo really which isn't off putting.

They want to make the K pretty much standard and that it can be sold to any engine manufacturer that wants it apparently so they really are shutting off all the taps that put off EM's, both big and small, in the first place. Cosworth can build a V6 Turbo and buy the Ferrari hybrid system for example.

Next up, the cost cap, historical payments and revenue distribution and if they nail those then F1 becomes a pretty appealing venture again.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:48 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it's only relevant if the engine manufacturers are actually competing against one another, if they have to run close to a spec or a performance parameter then it's just an engine with a different sticker on it hence why Renault hardly got a mention during the Red Bull years.


What do you mean? The constructor in the Red Bull years was entered as Red Bull Racing Renault. Renault got a big mention and they were the engine that gave Red Bull the ability to run the hot and the cold blow diffuser.

At the time Red Bull got the credit, I never heard said that the engine won the race for them like we hear nowadays.


No, it was just Newey.

Lowe,Costa or Allison don't get the credit nowadays so it must change depending on the story being told.

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"Clark came through at the end of the first lap so far ahead that we in the pits were convinced that the rest of the field must have been wiped out in an accident."
-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:49 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I am still thinking that until the Honda experiment proves successful, engine manufacturers will think twice about this.

The engines nowadays are not as "simple" as before, they are rather power plants. Many things can go wrong and if a company like Honda can get it wrong, then it will be very difficult to fix, let alone the negative publicity.

I'd love VW to get in though, no idea why!


The main source of the difficulty is the mgu-h and new lean burn techniques this era brought but there will be no 'h' and the lean burn is well known now for 3 years so won't surprise anyone. It's just a 1.6ltr V6 Turbo really which isn't off putting.

They want to make the K pretty much standard and that it can be sold to any engine manufacturer that wants it apparently so they really are shutting off all the taps that put off EM's, both big and small, in the first place. Cosworth can build a V6 Turbo and buy the Ferrari hybrid system for example.

Next up, the cost cap, historical payments and revenue distribution and if they nail those then F1 becomes a pretty appealing venture again.

Which basically to me is moving more towards spec engines.

_________________
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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 4th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:51 pm 
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Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it's only relevant if the engine manufacturers are actually competing against one another, if they have to run close to a spec or a performance parameter then it's just an engine with a different sticker on it hence why Renault hardly got a mention during the Red Bull years.


What do you mean? The constructor in the Red Bull years was entered as Red Bull Racing Renault. Renault got a big mention and they were the engine that gave Red Bull the ability to run the hot and the cold blow diffuser.

At the time Red Bull got the credit, I never heard said that the engine won the race for them like we hear nowadays.


No, it was just Newey.

Lowe,Costa or Allison don't get the credit nowadays so it must change depending on the story being told.

Who is an employee of Red Bull and not Renault.

Lowe, Costa or Allison don't get the credit because like I say that gets given more to the engine.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 4th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (5)


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:55 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I am still thinking that until the Honda experiment proves successful, engine manufacturers will think twice about this.

The engines nowadays are not as "simple" as before, they are rather power plants. Many things can go wrong and if a company like Honda can get it wrong, then it will be very difficult to fix, let alone the negative publicity.

I'd love VW to get in though, no idea why!


The main source of the difficulty is the mgu-h and new lean burn techniques this era brought but there will be no 'h' and the lean burn is well known now for 3 years so won't surprise anyone. It's just a 1.6ltr V6 Turbo really which isn't off putting.

They want to make the K pretty much standard and that it can be sold to any engine manufacturer that wants it apparently so they really are shutting off all the taps that put off EM's, both big and small, in the first place. Cosworth can build a V6 Turbo and buy the Ferrari hybrid system for example.

Next up, the cost cap, historical payments and revenue distribution and if they nail those then F1 becomes a pretty appealing venture again.

Which basically to me is moving more towards spec engines.


Well, I am not sure about this. That's what we thought when they made the ECU a spec item, but the engines never became spec engines.

In any case, what Lotus says makes sense and I agree that Honda came in at a weird time. The technology is easier to understand now than 3 years ago, so maybe it will attract more manufacturers


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:55 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
I am still thinking that until the Honda experiment proves successful, engine manufacturers will think twice about this.

The engines nowadays are not as "simple" as before, they are rather power plants. Many things can go wrong and if a company like Honda can get it wrong, then it will be very difficult to fix, let alone the negative publicity.

I'd love VW to get in though, no idea why!


The main source of the difficulty is the mgu-h and new lean burn techniques this era brought but there will be no 'h' and the lean burn is well known now for 3 years so won't surprise anyone. It's just a 1.6ltr V6 Turbo really which isn't off putting.

They want to make the K pretty much standard and that it can be sold to any engine manufacturer that wants it apparently so they really are shutting off all the taps that put off EM's, both big and small, in the first place. Cosworth can build a V6 Turbo and buy the Ferrari hybrid system for example.

Next up, the cost cap, historical payments and revenue distribution and if they nail those then F1 becomes a pretty appealing venture again.

Which basically to me is moving more towards spec engines.


If it leads to better competition and means the EM's can't hold the sport to ransom then good. They're shutting off aero routes to improve the racing so it's only fair the engine gets it as well.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:57 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Lotus49 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I think it's only relevant if the engine manufacturers are actually competing against one another, if they have to run close to a spec or a performance parameter then it's just an engine with a different sticker on it hence why Renault hardly got a mention during the Red Bull years.


What do you mean? The constructor in the Red Bull years was entered as Red Bull Racing Renault. Renault got a big mention and they were the engine that gave Red Bull the ability to run the hot and the cold blow diffuser.

At the time Red Bull got the credit, I never heard said that the engine won the race for them like we hear nowadays.


No, it was just Newey.

Lowe,Costa or Allison don't get the credit nowadays so it must change depending on the story being told.

Who is an employee of Red Bull and not Renault.

Lowe, Costa or Allison don't get the credit because like I say that gets given more to the engine.


Right but specifically "Newey Rocketships", that's the equivalent of "Mercedes Engine" this time around.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:26 pm 
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I'd love to see a big American name come into F1 with an engine (Chevy seem to be doing well enough in Indycar), but i'd also love (but will never ever happen) one of the smaller hypercar guys to have a pop at it (a Zonda/Koenigsegg/Noble type jobby) just to try and run with the big boys. Could be closer if we do move towards more 'speccish' engines..... I like the sound of Aston Martin having a badge on something, even if it is a Cosworth in drag.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:10 pm 
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:lol: Cosworth in drag

I like the sound of a Zonda-Zytek though.

Zytek can handle KERS and Zonda the ICE, happy days.

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-Eddie Dennis, describing the dominance of Jim Clark in the Lotus 49 at Spa 1967


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:29 pm 
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Reliant for the win!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:37 pm 
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I would like to see Ford and Toyota in, but it is highly unlikely.

Hyundai seem to want the Tec badge that rubs off from F1, and see themselves a development leaders.
I would really like to see a Hyundai engine in the post 2021 list.

Stretching credibility just a little, Lada had a very good spell with rally and there seems to be lots of cash floating around in that part of the world.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:49 pm 
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In my world, I’d like to see EMs restricted to 2 teams, so I’d love as many as possible. I have no preferences, just more dammit!
Toyota
Chev
BMW
Jaguar
Aston
Porsche
Lambo
Maserati
Zonda

Feed. Me. More!

If I had to pick, Toyota would be at the top of my list.. dunno why.. I’m a Toyota fan


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:26 pm 
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Hyundai

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:32 pm 
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Ford-Coworth.

Nothing sounds more F1 than Ford-Cosworth.

Also, BMW and Alfa Romeo as solo players.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:40 am 
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Not just as engine suppliers but as a works team... Toyota, BMW, Audi, Ford, Peugeot, Nissan, and maybe Bugatti. I’m sure there are more if I think about it but these are the ones that pop into my head quickly.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:52 am 
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Not just as engine suppliers but as a works team... Toyota, BMW, Audi, Ford, Peugeot, Nissan, and maybe Bugatti. I’m sure there are more if I think about it but these are the ones that pop into my head quickly.

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HAMILTON :: ALONSO :: VETTEL :: RAIKKONEN :: RICCIARDO :: VERSTAPPEN
BOTTAS :: MAGNUSSEN :: OCON :: SAINZ :: PEREZ :: VANDOORNE :: HULKENBERG
GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: ERICSON :: LECLERC :: STROLL :: SEROTKIN :: HARTLEY


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:06 am 
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I was going to create a topic along these lines a while back but never got round to it. What I would like to see is say 6 engine manufacturers in F1 who each run their own works team but also supply one other team. That way you would have 12 teams in total but the engine manufacturers would only have to supply an engine for four cars.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:22 pm 
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F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Not just as engine suppliers but as a works team... Toyota, BMW, Audi, Ford, Peugeot, Nissan, and maybe Bugatti. I’m sure there are more if I think about it but these are the ones that pop into my head quickly.


I doubt there can be 2 entries from the the Volkwagen Group (there isn't even one right now) - besides, wouldn't you want to see a pure engine manufacturer (such as Porsche) instead of a brand like Bugatti (if you could choose just one from VAG)?


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:55 pm 
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A.J. wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Not just as engine suppliers but as a works team... Toyota, BMW, Audi, Ford, Peugeot, Nissan, and maybe Bugatti. I’m sure there are more if I think about it but these are the ones that pop into my head quickly.


I doubt there can be 2 entries from the the Volkwagen Group (there isn't even one right now) - besides, wouldn't you want to see a pure engine manufacturer (such as Porsche) instead of a brand like Bugatti (if you could choose just one from VAG)?

Depends how they do it, now Alfa is with Sauber they have two entries from the FIAT group...


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:03 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Ford-Coworth.

Nothing sounds more F1 than Ford-Cosworth.

Also, BMW and Alfa Romeo as solo players.


Would also love to see Ford-Cosworth come back to F1. The same goes for BMW.

I don't see Alfa Romeo getting involved in F1 other than badge engineering

Porsche would be a great addition but they are heavily invested in Sports Car racing and it has proven a very good investment for them so I don't see them moving to F1. OTOH Porsche already does have a MGU-K system of sorts that has been used in the 919 Hybrid Sports Car.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:15 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Ford-Coworth.

Nothing sounds more F1 than Ford-Cosworth.

Also, BMW and Alfa Romeo as solo players.


Would also love to see Ford-Cosworth come back to F1. The same goes for BMW.

I don't see Alfa Romeo getting involved in F1 other than badge engineering

Porsche would be a great addition but they are heavily invested in Sports Car racing and it has proven a very good investment for them so I don't see them moving to F1. OTOH Porsche already does have a MGU-K system of sorts that has been used in the 919 Hybrid Sports Car.

I'd like Cosworth back, would prefer if they find sufficient funding to produce a decent engine themselves rather than Ford fund it. The DFV wasn't a Ford engine as far as I'm concerned, it was a Cosworth funded by Ford.

Would love to see more independents like Hart! (I know they'll never be back)


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:18 pm 
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Like others have mentioned, participation from the VW group would be nice (my preference is for Porsche to be the badge). I would also like to see at least one full works team from a Japanese manufacturer. Maybe Toyota or Honda. Call me crazy but I think Ford would make an amazing participant as well.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:18 pm 
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I think while F1 is still powered by a unit plus MGUH MGUK Energy store complicated boxes 1 to 20 etc, we are unlikely to see many more entrants.

If there was a supplier for all the gizmoes and whizmoes and a builder could just come along with the noisy bit and bolt them all on I think there would be a few interested.

All road car makers have to be developing hybrid technology soon so what better way to develop it?

This year we supply just the engine, next year we add something we have been developing etc.

I am not recommending standardized units (the last thing I want) but a 'good enough to go and race for forth place bolt on option'


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:11 am 
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I want to see some specialty racing engine manufacturers. These guys have the knowledge and expertise to build F1 engines but the current formula makes it too expensive for them to get a look in. Gibson, Mountune (as part of Roush engines), even Judd could come back.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:13 pm 
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jono794 wrote:
I want to see some specialty racing engine manufacturers. These guys have the knowledge and expertise to build F1 engines but the current formula makes it too expensive for them to get a look in. Gibson, Mountune (as part of Roush engines), even Judd could come back.


Harking back to this era, I suppose we would have to include Yamaha. I assume they have the knowhow but I don't know if they would have the need. It is probably better they stick to bikes and boats unless they consider making a 'for profit' supply available, say funded by F1.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:29 pm 
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Briggs and Stratton

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:57 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Briggs and Stratton


Electric or pull start?

I'd settle for any manufacturer as a supplier only and with no "factory team" affiliation with any team.

Wouldn't mind seeing a Cosworth, Ilmore, Mugan, Judd, Hart type representation on the grid.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:07 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Briggs and Stratton


With a Siba Dynastart energy recovery system :D




(just incase there is anyone in the world who does not know what one is* https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytugTDRBjcQ)

* that is probably 99.999% of the world or anyone under 65 :lol:


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