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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:30 pm 
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For consistency, I'll be comparing qualifying times between Ricciardo and Alonso since 2015. Both error-free, consistent drivers, who I believe have similar raw speed. This will help us comparing McLaren and Red Bull.


2015, the first year of the abysmal Honda engine:

Ricciardo 0.27 faster in Q2.

2016:

Ricciardo 0.7 faster in Q2.

2017:

Ricciardo 0.9 faster in Q2.

2018, with the "much better" Renault engine for McLaren:

Ricciardo 1.4 seconds faster in Q2.



Despite the 2018 engine being better than the 2017 engine being better than the 2016 engine being better than the 2015 engine, McLaren have lost more to Red Bull each year here. Maybe the design team really is in a huge crisis since years, and only now can we see it. And maybe Honda is a match for Renault after all, since a few years? McLaren seem to be losing just as much on the straights as they did the previous few years, if not more.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 09, 2018 7:32 pm 
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The RB14 might just be the best chassis Red Bull have made since the RB9. Renault should be singing their praises for flattering their engine so much.

But I also believe that McLaren's chassis is not suited to this circuit.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 4:10 am 
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The 2015 Red Bull was easily the worst RBR since they started winning championships, so that throws of the comparison a bit.

However, the rest of it certainly does tell a story: the gap between Red Bull and McLaren has been increasing, and it's not all to do with the engine.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:01 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
The RB14 might just be the best chassis Red Bull have made since the RB9. Renault should be singing their praises for flattering their engine so much.

But I also believe that McLaren's chassis is not suited to this circuit.

In that case it's also worth noting the gap to the factory Renault team. 2016 was a rebuilding year for them so is a good baseline to start the comparison.

The gaps are Hulkenberg vs Alonso.

2016 +0.094

2017 +0.287

2018 +0.940

:-|

Edit: Just to add, is there any circuit the McLaren will be suited to? So far this year we've had pretty much everything - Tilkedromes/street circuits, high speed/low speed, front limited/rear limited... At this point calling the car anything more than a dog is being generous.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 10, 2018 10:09 am 
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jono794 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
The RB14 might just be the best chassis Red Bull have made since the RB9. Renault should be singing their praises for flattering their engine so much.

But I also believe that McLaren's chassis is not suited to this circuit.

In that case it's also worth noting the gap to the factory Renault team. 2016 was a rebuilding year for them so is a good baseline to start the comparison.

The gaps are Hulkenberg vs Alonso.

2016 +0.094

2017 +0.287

2018 +0.940

:-|

Edit: Just to add, is there any circuit the McLaren will be suited to? So far this year we've had pretty much everything - Tilkedromes/street circuits, high speed/low speed, front limited/rear limited... At this point calling the car anything more than a dog is being generous.


Probably the 7th best car on average. I'm starting to think maybe even the 8th on average, behind FI when drivers are factored out.


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