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The layout is:
Good & will produce an exciting race 50%  50%  [ 11 ]
Bad & we'll see a procession 50%  50%  [ 11 ]
Total votes : 22
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:13 pm 
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In 2 weeks, we'll be witnessing a race at a new venue (not new exactly). As per the layout (5.8 km), it looks so familiar to Canada with the only difference there being a load of run off areas. The coloured asphalt reminds me of Russia. Another low downforce kind of track should suit Mercedes, considering they'll be getting the upgraded engine.

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However the reason I thought about starting his thread is because I want to know peoples' opinion about the track layout, especially about the pit exit which comes straight onto the racing line heading into the 1st turn.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:44 pm 
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I shudder to think, after the last few races.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:08 pm 
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I feel like they should have run the back straight without the chicane. Maybe I'm wrong and it will prove to be an overtaking spot but from what I've seen the straight looks slightly too short for a driver to get alongside and entry to the chicane looks too fast for a move to be done on the breaks.

At least with the extra long back straight drivers would have more opportunity to get ahead/alongside before T10.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 2:27 pm 
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Always excited for a new circuit, though this season is dishing out some real racing stinkers so hopes are not that high.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:14 pm 
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They should not use the chicane on the straight, it ruins the soul and flow of the racetrack. If Fuji had that long straight, why not Paul Ricard? Another hit in the spine with axe to the historic racetracks.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:23 pm 
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Kimi said the track was originally dumped from the calendar because it was only suitable for testing. He also said it´s difficult to overtake there, so I suspect it'll be a Canada repeat.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:26 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Kimi said the track was originally dumped from the calendar because it was only suitable for testing. He also said it´s difficult to overtake there, so I suspect it'll be a Canada repeat.


It doesn't really matter how difficult or easy it is to overtake at a track. Without a huge advantage you can't keep within 1.2 seconds of the car in front. Without a random safety car to shake up the order we are always going to get tyre conservation processions.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:31 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Kimi said the track was originally dumped from the calendar because it was only suitable for testing. He also said it´s difficult to overtake there, so I suspect it'll be a Canada repeat.


It doesn't really matter how difficult or easy it is to overtake at a track. Without a huge advantage you can't keep within 1.2 seconds of the car in front. Without a random safety car to shake up the order we are always going to get tyre conservation processions.

Well I wouldn´t go as far as saying it doesn´t matter at all. A traditionally good overtaking track could mean the difference between some overtakes and no overtakes.

But yeah I agree generally that the current situation is far from perfect.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 6:46 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Kimi said the track was originally dumped from the calendar because it was only suitable for testing. He also said it´s difficult to overtake there, so I suspect it'll be a Canada repeat.


It doesn't really matter how difficult or easy it is to overtake at a track. Without a huge advantage you can't keep within 1.2 seconds of the car in front. Without a random safety car to shake up the order we are always going to get tyre conservation processions.

Well I wouldn´t go as far as saying it doesn´t matter at all. A traditionally good overtaking track could mean the difference between some overtakes and no overtakes.

But yeah I agree generally that the current situation is far from perfect.


A little bit of a tangent but I generally feel the tracks with the best layouts aren't conducive to a lot of overtaking, whilst the tracks with no flow seem to be. The odd ones out being Spa and Yas Marina.

Paul Ricard's a bit like Budapest and Barcelona. It flows beautifully but will prove tricky to overtake.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:28 pm 
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With what we've seen so far this season I'm not getting my hopes up. It's such a shame as this season could have been a real classic with how close the top three teams are to each other.

With better aero rules though, this track may prove to be OK. There looks to be a couple of decent braking zones at least.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:29 pm 
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Any time there is really only one racing line its going to be tough to overtake. Cota is one of the best for overtaking because its so wide drivers have alternative lines available to them. This french circuit i know very little about but it doesnt look like its going to be good for overtaking.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:40 pm 
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I am not hopeful that Paul Ricard will be a competitive track, but would be very happy to be proved wrong!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:58 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
I feel like they should have run the back straight without the chicane. Maybe I'm wrong and it will prove to be an overtaking spot but from what I've seen the straight looks slightly too short for a driver to get alongside and entry to the chicane looks too fast for a move to be done on the breaks.

At least with the extra long back straight drivers would have more opportunity to get ahead/alongside before T10.


This.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 11, 2018 10:18 pm 
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Excited. It's a new track, and we don't know what the competitive order will be like!

Hoping for giant amounts of on-track action in Formula 1 is a bit like watching Baseball and hoping for dozens of home runs. It ain't gonna happen. I don't base my enjoyment on the number of overtakes.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:47 am 
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Why install a chicane on the Mistral straight? That straight was meant for overtaking decades before the horrible DRS was brought in. Cutting out half of the track after de Angelis was killed was stupid enough, and now this.

I think the track is just fine, except for that chicane, and if the race doesn't live up to expectations, it won't be possible for F1/FIA to pretend it's not the cars that are the problem. They wanted faster lap times but less racing. Exactly what the fans requested, or so they would have us believe. :uhoh:

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:51 am 
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The good news is we still have Russia to come up :D


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:50 am 
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That turn 8-9 chicane should be moved 300 meters back. Ideally it shouldn’t exist at all but the speeds the cars would reach going into Turn 10 would probably be too dangerous then.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:51 am 
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Sutton wrote:
The good news is we still have Russia to come up :D

Sochi is genuinely the worst circuit of my lifetime. At least Valencia and Abu Dhabi have/had nice scenery. Sochi doesn’t even have that.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:07 am 
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How can you go wrong in a country that has over 400 different types of cheese at a track with 167 different layouts?

I liked Paul Ricard over Magny Cours although I don't hold out much hope for an exciting, or even an entertaining, race.

I'll echo the comments of others saying how disappointing it is they're using the chicane on the Mistral straight.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:43 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
They should not use the chicane on the straight, it ruins the soul and flow of the racetrack. If Fuji had that long straight, why not Paul Ricard? Another hit in the spine with axe to the historic racetracks.

Safety. After Turn 10 the runoff is there but its not long enough to not have that chicane at turn 8. In case of brake or tyre / suspension failures, it would be dangerous. That was the only reason that chicane exists.


As far as the circuit is concerned, I am afraid that it is going to prove too narrow to overtake with slightly defensive driving being enough to keep marginally faster cars behind without them having to abuse track limitations.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:44 am 
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Doesn't anyone find the pit exit dangerously aligned with the racing line?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 6:25 am 
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I know this is about track layout, but I just can't get excited with something that looks like a painted parking lot. It looks plain bad. I hope the track can change my mind by offering us a cracker of a race. We'll see.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 7:59 am 
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mds wrote:
I know this is about track layout, but I just can't get excited with something that looks like a painted parking lot. It looks plain bad. I hope the track can change my mind by offering us a cracker of a race. We'll see.

The paint was a necessity for a new profile of the track after Elio de Angelis was killed because of the scandalous lack of medical help at the track in 1986. They immediately cut off that part of the circuit (curve 3 and onward), painted in blue and had a brand new profile of the racetrack for a race that was to be held not whole two months afterwards. That's a common thing. Even Zolder, not so immediately, put a chicane in the Terlamenbocht curve (the Villeneuve crash happened actually right after Butte), even if the curve itself was not to be blamed. Knee-jerk reaction in both cases.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:26 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
mds wrote:
I know this is about track layout, but I just can't get excited with something that looks like a painted parking lot. It looks plain bad. I hope the track can change my mind by offering us a cracker of a race. We'll see.

The paint was a necessity for a new profile of the track after Elio de Angelis was killed because of the scandalous lack of medical help at the track in 1986. They immediately cut off that part of the circuit (curve 3 and onward), painted in blue and had a brand new profile of the racetrack for a race that was to be held not whole two months afterwards. That's a common thing. Even Zolder, not so immediately, put a chicane in the Terlamenbocht curve (the Villeneuve crash happened actually right after Butte), even if the curve itself was not to be blamed. Knee-jerk reaction in both cases.


I'm not really disputing the necessity nor merits of it, but it doesn't look like an attractive race track to me. Atmosphere counts for a lot. Compare standing at Eau Rouge, looking up to the Raidillon with any point of this track below and you'll see what I mean :)

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Source: http://www.racexpress.nl/formule-1/pre- ... ag/n/79992

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:48 am 
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For years I've heard about the run-off at Paul Ricard having been made to deliberately damage tyres if cars go off the track. Is that still the case, and what should fans expect?

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:59 am 
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Toby. wrote:
For years I've heard about the run-off at Paul Ricard having been made to deliberately damage tyres if cars go off the track. Is that still the case, and what should fans expect?


From that bastion of accurate information - Wikipedia

"The track is known for its distinctive black and blue runoff areas known as the Blue Zone. The runoff surface consists of a mixture of asphalt and tungsten, used instead of gravel traps, as common at other circuits. A second, deeper run-off area is the Red Zone, with a more abrasive surface designed to maximize tyre grip and hence minimize braking distance, although at the cost of extreme tyre wear. The final safeguard consists of Tecpro barriers, a modern improvement on tyre barriers"

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:36 am 
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mds wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
mds wrote:
I know this is about track layout, but I just can't get excited with something that looks like a painted parking lot. It looks plain bad. I hope the track can change my mind by offering us a cracker of a race. We'll see.

The paint was a necessity for a new profile of the track after Elio de Angelis was killed because of the scandalous lack of medical help at the track in 1986. They immediately cut off that part of the circuit (curve 3 and onward), painted in blue and had a brand new profile of the racetrack for a race that was to be held not whole two months afterwards. That's a common thing. Even Zolder, not so immediately, put a chicane in the Terlamenbocht curve (the Villeneuve crash happened actually right after Butte), even if the curve itself was not to be blamed. Knee-jerk reaction in both cases.


I'm not really disputing the necessity nor merits of it, but it doesn't look like an attractive race track to me. Atmosphere counts for a lot. Compare standing at Eau Rouge, looking up to the Raidillon with any point of this track below and you'll see what I mean :)

Image
Source: http://www.racexpress.nl/formule-1/pre- ... ag/n/79992



Agreed. It's so uninspiring. It needs some elevation changes, that looks as flat as a pancake.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:40 am 
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mds wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
mds wrote:
I know this is about track layout, but I just can't get excited with something that looks like a painted parking lot. It looks plain bad. I hope the track can change my mind by offering us a cracker of a race. We'll see.

The paint was a necessity for a new profile of the track after Elio de Angelis was killed because of the scandalous lack of medical help at the track in 1986. They immediately cut off that part of the circuit (curve 3 and onward), painted in blue and had a brand new profile of the racetrack for a race that was to be held not whole two months afterwards. That's a common thing. Even Zolder, not so immediately, put a chicane in the Terlamenbocht curve (the Villeneuve crash happened actually right after Butte), even if the curve itself was not to be blamed. Knee-jerk reaction in both cases.


I'm not really disputing the necessity nor merits of it, but it doesn't look like an attractive race track to me. Atmosphere counts for a lot. Compare standing at Eau Rouge, looking up to the Raidillon with any point of this track below and you'll see what I mean :)

Image
Source: http://www.racexpress.nl/formule-1/pre- ... ag/n/79992


Thats an absolute mess.
State of that man!!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:17 am 
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mds wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
mds wrote:
I know this is about track layout, but I just can't get excited with something that looks like a painted parking lot. It looks plain bad. I hope the track can change my mind by offering us a cracker of a race. We'll see.

The paint was a necessity for a new profile of the track after Elio de Angelis was killed because of the scandalous lack of medical help at the track in 1986. They immediately cut off that part of the circuit (curve 3 and onward), painted in blue and had a brand new profile of the racetrack for a race that was to be held not whole two months afterwards. That's a common thing. Even Zolder, not so immediately, put a chicane in the Terlamenbocht curve (the Villeneuve crash happened actually right after Butte), even if the curve itself was not to be blamed. Knee-jerk reaction in both cases.


I'm not really disputing the necessity nor merits of it, but it doesn't look like an attractive race track to me. Atmosphere counts for a lot. Compare standing at Eau Rouge, looking up to the Raidillon with any point of this track below and you'll see what I mean :)

Image
Source: http://www.racexpress.nl/formule-1/pre- ... ag/n/79992

aaargh, my eyes!!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:28 am 
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funkymonkey wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
They should not use the chicane on the straight, it ruins the soul and flow of the racetrack. If Fuji had that long straight, why not Paul Ricard? Another hit in the spine with axe to the historic racetracks.

Safety. After Turn 10 the runoff is there but its not long enough to not have that chicane at turn 8. In case of brake or tyre / suspension failures, it would be dangerous. That was the only reason that chicane exists.
You've got me wondering what kind of speeds they might reach. The Mistral straight without chicane is roughly 1,8km long. That is considerably longer than the Kemmel straight at Francorchamps, but with the chicane in use, both parts are shorter than the Kemmel straight. I remember Senna going off at the end of the Mistral two years in a row, but don't recall any serious problems with it.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:40 am 
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Fiki wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
They should not use the chicane on the straight, it ruins the soul and flow of the racetrack. If Fuji had that long straight, why not Paul Ricard? Another hit in the spine with axe to the historic racetracks.

Safety. After Turn 10 the runoff is there but its not long enough to not have that chicane at turn 8. In case of brake or tyre / suspension failures, it would be dangerous. That was the only reason that chicane exists.
You've got me wondering what kind of speeds they might reach. The Mistral straight without chicane is roughly 1,8km long. That is considerably longer than the Kemmel straight at Francorchamps, but with the chicane in use, both parts are shorter than the Kemmel straight. I remember Senna going off at the end of the Mistral two years in a row, but don't recall any serious problems with it.

Baku is 2.2km, though, isn't it?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:53 pm 
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Martini Williams will be happy with this!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Martini Williams will be happy with this!


hey're pathetic everywhere. They should've been better in Canada but that wasn't the case.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 12:59 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Martini Williams will be happy with this!


hey're pathetic everywhere. They should've been better in Canada but that wasn't the case.


He means the red/white/blue the track surroundings are painted with...

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 1:10 pm 
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mds wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Martini Williams will be happy with this!


hey're pathetic everywhere. They should've been better in Canada but that wasn't the case.


He means the red/white/blue the track surroundings are painted with...


Indeed I did.

UnlikeUday is right, they should do better, but maybe this is for another thread!


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:23 pm 
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mds wrote:
I'm not really disputing the necessity nor merits of it, but it doesn't look like an attractive race track to me. Atmosphere counts for a lot. Compare standing at Eau Rouge, looking up to the Raidillon with any point of this track below and you'll see what I mean :)

Image
Source: http://www.racexpress.nl/formule-1/pre- ... ag/n/79992

I actually think it's beautiful, so clearly opinions differ. Forested tracks are nice too, but why do they all need to be that way?

The only part I don't like is the dirt. But as far as the red and blue go, I love it. 8)

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:30 pm 
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Yes, I'm excited about the track but a little bit less so now that the Ferrari is extremely dominant. Should be a walk in the park for Vettel since Kimi isn't allowed to win even though he is faster alot of times.

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 10:37 pm 
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Warheart01 wrote:
Yes, I'm excited about the track but a little bit less so now that the Ferrari is extremely dominant. Should be a walk in the park for Vettel since Kimi isn't allowed to win even though he is faster alot of times.

:thumbup: :lol:

... wait, are you seriouos?

Now I'm not sure. :uhoh:

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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:01 pm 
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It has the potential to be worse than Sochi. Russia bribed, but what was the excuse for putting this turd on the calendar?


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:14 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
It has the potential to be worse than Sochi. Russia bribed, but what was the excuse for putting this turd on the calendar?

Doesn't Bernie Ecclestone own the circuit?


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