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Raikkonen
Go - Ferrari need someone closer to Vettel 61%  61%  [ 31 ]
Stay - He's the perfect No 2 22%  22%  [ 11 ]
Stay - in F1, but not in a Ferrari 18%  18%  [ 9 ]
Total votes : 51
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 10:04 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Didn't we already have a giant thread on this topic that eventually got shut down? Their lack of interest in replacing Vettel with Alonso proves no such thing. It just proves that - for some reason - they don't want to replace Vettel with Alonso.

OK, let me ask you two simple questions

1. Do you agree that Ferrari have a good idea of how Vettel compares to Alonso?

2. Do you agree that if Ferrari knew that Vettel was slower than Alonso, they probably would not build their team around him like they are doing now?

Yes to one, no to the other.

I believe that if Ferrari thought Alonso was a tenth quicker than Vettel but created a toxic environment, they wouldn't take him back. Vettel is unquestionably quick enough to win a WDC with the best car, so Ferrari just need to deliver him that car. Alonso - even if he is a bit quicker - won't beat Hamilton in an inferior car, so the priority is still on getting the best car. Vettel is quick enough and marketable enough to be a lead Ferrari driver, and keeping him means not having to admit they were wrong in hiring him.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 2:09 am 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Didn't we already have a giant thread on this topic that eventually got shut down? Their lack of interest in replacing Vettel with Alonso proves no such thing. It just proves that - for some reason - they don't want to replace Vettel with Alonso.

OK, let me ask you two simple questions

1. Do you agree that Ferrari have a good idea of how Vettel compares to Alonso?
D
2. Do you agree that if Ferrari knew that Vettel was slower than Alonso, they probably would not build their team around him like they are doing now?


Considering how Ferrari kept Massa and is keeping Räikkönen despite better drivers available, I am skeptical about your reasoning, tbh.

Massa and Kimi were not kept as lead drivers, Vettel is.

When Kimi was hired as a first driver (2007), but failed to live up to expectations, they fired him for Alonso.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 7:54 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Didn't we already have a giant thread on this topic that eventually got shut down? Their lack of interest in replacing Vettel with Alonso proves no such thing. It just proves that - for some reason - they don't want to replace Vettel with Alonso.

OK, let me ask you two simple questions

1. Do you agree that Ferrari have a good idea of how Vettel compares to Alonso?
D
2. Do you agree that if Ferrari knew that Vettel was slower than Alonso, they probably would not build their team around him like they are doing now?


Considering how Ferrari kept Massa and is keeping Räikkönen despite better drivers available, I am skeptical about your reasoning, tbh.

Massa and Kimi were not kept as lead drivers, Vettel is.

When Kimi was hired as a first driver (2007), but failed to live up to expectations, they fired him for Alonso.


Actually Santander bought Kimi contract to get Alonso in 2010. If you do some research you can find it. This is pretty good article what was actually going on from 2008:
https://f1bias.com/2012/04/05/truth-about-kimi-ferrari-santander-2008/

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:53 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:06 am
Posts: 7276
Location: Belgium
KingVoid wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Didn't we already have a giant thread on this topic that eventually got shut down? Their lack of interest in replacing Vettel with Alonso proves no such thing. It just proves that - for some reason - they don't want to replace Vettel with Alonso.

OK, let me ask you two simple questions

1. Do you agree that Ferrari have a good idea of how Vettel compares to Alonso?
D
2. Do you agree that if Ferrari knew that Vettel was slower than Alonso, they probably would not build their team around him like they are doing now?


Considering how Ferrari kept Massa and is keeping Räikkönen despite better drivers available, I am skeptical about your reasoning, tbh.

Massa and Kimi were not kept as lead drivers, Vettel is.

When Kimi was hired as a first driver (2007), but failed to live up to expectations, they fired him for Alonso.
I would be very grateful to you if you could find me a source that explains Kimi was hired as a first driver. It's a long time ago, but I am almost certain the discussion prior to signing Kimi for 2007 was equal treatment at Ferrari. I would in fact even be surprised if that wasn't a deciding factor in Schumacher's retirement.
As far as I know from the 2007, 2008 and 2009 seasons, that was the only time since 1996 that Ferrari exercised an equality policy. They certainly don't now.

I have always wondered what system the teams in general, and Ferrrari in this particular case, use to assess drivers. We all read of speed differences between them expressed in tenths of a second, but I cannot imagine a team not trying to understand how a driver's style would suit their car designs or not. Kimi won the 2007 title with some difficulty, perhaps because he was still driving a car built for Schumacher. Remember Berger's and Alesi's comments on the Benetton they took over from Schumacher? Speed alone isn't everything in assessment.

If Kimi is happy to stay, then I think Ferrari should keep him, and give him far more consideration. Should they decide to put Leclerc alongside Vettel in a number 2 role, sparks will fly.

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