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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:01 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
The chap lost out on a win at his home race, something he admittedly values very highly.

A moment to compose himself shouldn't be seen as anything more.

Ignore the posters who just want to pounce on this like he committed treason. Anyone with any sense of what it's like to pour your heart and soul into something will understand that that's what this is about. He didn't want to have a microphone in his face until he'd had a moment to get himself together. Internet people can be absurd.


I let people shove microphones in my mouth for 30 odd million a year no matter how tiddled off I am.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:02 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
FFS Suzie, how many seconds would you give Kimi? 20, 30, 40, 50....

what did she say?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:03 pm 
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Edit: Innapropriate Post removed


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:03 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
Lewis would have won that if not punted off. Even with the bad start.


Given his pace with a damaged car that is absolutely possible. Räikkönen robbed us of a fair duel for the victory. But his team is obviously happy with the gift he gave them. ;)


What damage? Also, Lewis' start out him at risk and behind Seb. There is no guarantee that Lewis would have won without the contact with Kimi.


Of course he would have won
It's Lewis Hamilton
He didn't pass any competitive cars on the track all afternoon, but he definitely would have beaten Seb. It's obvious :D


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:04 pm 
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And DC, we have to take into account the Championship when handing out penalties.

Seriously. No!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:04 pm 
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red_alert wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
The chap lost out on a win at his home race, something he admittedly values very highly.

A moment to compose himself shouldn't be seen as anything more.

Ignore the posters who just want to pounce on this like he committed treason. Anyone with any sense of what it's like to pour your heart and soul into something will understand that that's what this is about. He didn't want to have a microphone in his face until he'd had a moment to get himself together. Internet people can be absurd.


I let people shove microphones in my mouth for 30 odd million a year no matter how tiddled off I am.

Good for you


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:04 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
ALESI wrote:
FFS Suzie, how many seconds would you give Kimi? 20, 30, 40, 50....

what did she say?


Ten seconds completely inadequate penalty... for a non deliberate first lap racing incident.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:05 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
Lewis would have won that if not punted off. Even with the bad start.


Given his pace with a damaged car that is absolutely possible. Räikkönen robbed us of a fair duel for the victory. But his team is obviously happy with the gift he gave them. ;)

Yeah I seriously doubt he had a damaged car. And without going off he would still have been behind Vettel and Bottas, with Kimi rigfht behind him, and no doubt the strategies would have played out different. A victory was far from certain and the odds against it fairly high IMO


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:05 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
The chap lost out on a win at his home race, something he admittedly values very highly.

A moment to compose himself shouldn't be seen as anything more.

Ignore the posters who just want to pounce on this like he committed treason. Anyone with any sense of what it's like to pour your heart and soul into something will understand that that's what this is about. He didn't want to have a microphone in his face until he'd had a moment to get himself together. Internet people can be absurd.


Give how emotional he got after getting pole yesterday, I suspect he'd be unable to say anything right out of the car even if he won today.

I get the organisers wanting to catch an 'interesting' first reaction right out of the car, but a driver wanting some space after a physically and emotionally draining race shouldn't be looked down upon.

If he'd refused to interview at all, have at him, but he was pretty normal on the podium given the circumstances.

Armchair critics (all of us) take it too far sometimes.


Last edited by chetan_rao on Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:05 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
Zoue wrote:
ALESI wrote:
FFS Suzie, how many seconds would you give Kimi? 20, 30, 40, 50....

what did she say?


Ten seconds completely inadequate penalty... for a non deliberate first lap racing incident.

:lol: . Emotions talking methinks


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:06 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
And DC, we have to take into account the Championship when handing out penalties.

Seriously. No!

where's the facepalm emoji when you need it? :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:07 pm 
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chetan_rao wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
The chap lost out on a win at his home race, something he admittedly values very highly.

A moment to compose himself shouldn't be seen as anything more.

Ignore the posters who just want to pounce on this like he committed treason. Anyone with any sense of what it's like to pour your heart and soul into something will understand that that's what this is about. He didn't want to have a microphone in his face until he'd had a moment to get himself together. Internet people can be absurd.


Give how emotional he got after getting pole yesterday, I suspect he'd be unable to say anything right out of the car even if he won today.

I get the organisers wanting to catch an 'interesting' first reaction right out of the car, but a driver wanting some space after a physically and emotionally draining race shouldn't be looked down upon.

If he'd refused to interview at all, have at him, but he was pretty normal on the podium given the circumstances.

Armchair critics (all of us) take it too far sometimes.


Well taking some space didn't do much good, he just basically accused Ferrari of deliberately trying to take him out. He's a complete whingebag at times.
Look at what happened to Seb earlier in the season when max hit him, and how Seb handled it.


Last edited by MasterRacer on Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:07 pm 
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How exactly was Hamilton's floor supposed to be ripped off anyway?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:10 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Hamilton didn't squeeze Kimi at all though. Kimi just had some understeer there. Hamilton left a full car's width.


Yes he left a full car's width, and was 100% not at fault for what happened. But part of what makes Fernando Alonso great (and I am not really a fan of him) is how he seems to be able to avoid trouble at starts, particularly when he was at Ferrari and consistently finished ahead of where he started in races.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:11 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
ALESI wrote:
Zoue wrote:
ALESI wrote:
FFS Suzie, how many seconds would you give Kimi? 20, 30, 40, 50....

what did she say?


Ten seconds completely inadequate penalty... for a non deliberate first lap racing incident.

:lol: . Emotions talking methinks


right penalty in the current system. verstrappon got a 10s for china which was a similar outcome. why the hell vettel got away with 5s in france ive no idea.

because its lewis everyone going over the top. its racing. it happens. and for him to suggest it was deliberate. what a tool.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:11 pm 
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Another poor call from Merc not to pit Bottas. They could have had 2nd and 3rd at worst in this race.
Or did they sacrifice Bottas
Either way they can't complain on losing championship points to Ferrari


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:12 pm 
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Damn facepalm moment for Toto Wolff how can you say what he just said on Sky.

This is just wrong so wrong!

Saying Ferrari using intentional tactics to run into their drivers, saying James Allison said so how aggrieved at your former employers can you be.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:12 pm 
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What lap did Verstappen retire?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
Damn facepalm moment for Toto Wolff how can you say what he just said on Sky.

This is just wrong so wrong!

Saying Ferrari using intentional tactics to run into their drivers, saying James Allison said so how aggrieved at your former employers can you be.

did he really say that? Possible misinterpretation?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:13 pm 
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AravJ wrote:
Another poor call from Merc not to pit Bottas. They could have had 2nd and 3rd at worst in this race.
Or did they sacrifice Bottas
Either way they can't complain on losing championship points to Ferrari

They just froze as usual.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:14 pm 
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AravJ wrote:
Another poor call from Merc not to pit Bottas. They could have had 2nd and 3rd at worst in this race.
Or did they sacrifice Bottas
Either way they can't complain on losing championship points to Ferrari


Did they not have to do something different to try and win the race though? Bottas probably wasn't going to overtake Vettel if he pitted as well, so they gambled on him being able to keep Vettel behind on older and slower tyres.

At the time I thought they got it wrong with Bottas, but I think they probably did the right thing in hindsight.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:14 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
Lewis would have won that if not punted off. Even with the bad start.


Given his pace with a damaged car that is absolutely possible. Räikkönen robbed us of a fair duel for the victory. But his team is obviously happy with the gift he gave them. ;)


What damage? Also, Lewis' start put him at risk and behind Seb. There is no guarantee that Lewis would have won without the contact with Kimi.


I wrote "possible" and " duel". How about trying to read before you switch on your Ferrari defense modus?

Damage: the hit of Räikkönen's Ferrari - completely unnecessary ramming into the biggest rival of his team from far behind - has definitely caused some damage. How big is unclear, of course.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:14 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Damn facepalm moment for Toto Wolff how can you say what he just said on Sky.

This is just wrong so wrong!

Saying Ferrari using intentional tactics to run into their drivers, saying James Allison said so how aggrieved at your former employers can you be.

did he really say that? Possible misinterpretation?


No misinterpretation, I'll try and get the verbatim transcript!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:14 pm 
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MasterRacer wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
The chap lost out on a win at his home race, something he admittedly values very highly.

A moment to compose himself shouldn't be seen as anything more.

Ignore the posters who just want to pounce on this like he committed treason. Anyone with any sense of what it's like to pour your heart and soul into something will understand that that's what this is about. He didn't want to have a microphone in his face until he'd had a moment to get himself together. Internet people can be absurd.


Give how emotional he got after getting pole yesterday, I suspect he'd be unable to say anything right out of the car even if he won today.

I get the organisers wanting to catch an 'interesting' first reaction right out of the car, but a driver wanting some space after a physically and emotionally draining race shouldn't be looked down upon.

If he'd refused to interview at all, have at him, but he was pretty normal on the podium given the circumstances.

Armchair critics (all of us) take it too far sometimes.


Well taking some space didn't do much good, he just basically accused Ferrari of deliberately trying to take him out. He's a complete whingebag at times.
Look at what happened to Seb earlier in the season when max hit him, and how Seb handled it.


Like I said, have at him for everything he says/does afterwards. I just don't hold it against any driver if he doesn't want a mic shoved in his face right out of the car.

Kimi honestly owned up for the first lap incident (literally his first comments out of the car), and he's arguably one of the most honest racers on track so I don't buy any conspiracy theories. Hamilton was the victim here, but he (and anyone who's ever raced) have lost out or gained from such incidents in their careers. Nothing more to see here, unless someone has evidence of sabotage.


Last edited by chetan_rao on Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:15 pm 
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Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff, speaking to Sky Sports: "It was an amazing recovery from Lewis. That was the maximum damage limitation we could have achieved.

"Racing incident. It was unfortunate, it is the second time we got taken out, a lot of construction points. To word it in James Allison’s words, ‘do you think it is deliberate or incompetence?’ And that is where it leaves us with a judgement.

"I am not happy. We had a difficult weekend, qualifying on pole and then getting take out on lap one, it puts you on the back foot."


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:15 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
AravJ wrote:
Another poor call from Merc not to pit Bottas. They could have had 2nd and 3rd at worst in this race.
Or did they sacrifice Bottas
Either way they can't complain on losing championship points to Ferrari

They just froze as usual.

I don't think they froze, i just think they gambled. Going in would have meant 2nd at best. Staying out gave the chance for the win. They clearly thought the tyres would be better than they were, given how Hamilton made his last earlier and how Bottas had been better with his first set than Vettel


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:15 pm 
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Inappropriate post removed.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:17 pm 
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MasterRacer wrote:
Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff, speaking to Sky Sports: "It was an amazing recovery from Lewis. That was the maximum damage limitation we could have achieved.

"Racing incident. It was unfortunate, it is the second time we got taken out, a lot of construction points. To word it in James Allison’s words, ‘do you think it is deliberate or incompetence?’ And that is where it leaves us with a judgement.

"I am not happy. We had a difficult weekend, qualifying on pole and then getting take out on lap one, it puts you on the back foot."

silly thing to say, really.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:17 pm 
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MasterRacer wrote:
Mercedes team principal Toto Wolff, speaking to Sky Sports: "It was an amazing recovery from Lewis. That was the maximum damage limitation we could have achieved.

"Racing incident. It was unfortunate, it is the second time we got taken out, a lot of construction points. To word it in James Allison’s words, ‘do you think it is deliberate or incompetence?’ And that is where it leaves us with a judgement.

"I am not happy. We had a difficult weekend, qualifying on pole and then getting take out on lap one, it puts you on the back foot."


Thanks.

Was just going to get this for Zoue.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:17 pm 
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Did anyone catch what Kimi said right after the race ? Something about him trying his best but it not being good enough? He didn't look too happy obviously but seems like there's more to it than just the penalty. I think he drove brilliantly today except for the unfortunate incident.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:18 pm 
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Toto uses the words Racing Incident and Unfortunate. Why he then goes on to quote Allison which may imply something deliberate is a bit wierd.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Hamilton did have some bad luck this race, but if anything, I can say Bottas was possibly as unlucky given the circumstances near the end. Given Hamilton had pitted later than Bottas and was running in clean air, leaving him out made sence. But why didn't they pit Bottas? He has been running reasonably close to Vettel and new tyres surely will have got him higher than 4th. There have been 4 occations where Bottas has made a perfect safety car restart this year while leading the race and he's lost out in the race in the end due to nothing of his own doing.

It was such a shame to see Bottas loose out like he did in China. He did some brillient defending. Kept thinking Vettel would get through, but Bottas didn't allow this for ages. I guess him defending hard will have cost him a bit, but I don't know if it will have got him a better result if he didn't try at all. Bottas racing and defending really lookes to have improved a lot this year.

Bottas did look very similar pace wise to Hamilton today and had a far better start. Even without the safety car, we can't be sure if Hamilton will have found a way past Bottas if they were on a similar strategy. They are both in the same car and even if Hamilton was quicker, without team orders, he would have struggled to get past Bottas.

I thought that when the 2nd safety car came out that Bottas had finaly had some good fortune and would be able to save his tyres a bit more. But in the end, this risk has put Bottas lower then he could have finished yet again. He just hasn't had any good fortune this year and had had a rediculous amount of bad luck.

i think even people who are not a fan of Bottas will be able to say that basically half the races this year, Bottas has been as good or better than Hamilton. They have looked pretty even overall. Even qualifying has been pretty tight at times. I just hope Bottas will get what he deserves given his performance. A new contract with the team. Looking at his points in the championchip continue to drop relative to Hamilton and Vettel and even Kimi just isn't a good way to look at his season.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:20 pm 
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Wow, I take my 'armchair critics' comment back, if that's what the team principal thinks.

He's painting himself into a corner with that, because you can bet there will be more contact before the season runs out and it's far from given his drivers won't be the ones making the move.


Last edited by chetan_rao on Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:20 pm 
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ohwell wrote:
Did anyone catch what Kimi said right after the race ? Something about him trying his best but it not being good enough? He didn't look too happy obviously but seems like there's more to it than just the penalty. I think he drove brilliantly today except for the unfortunate incident.


lost his drive methinks.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Inappropriate quote removed.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Blake wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Yellowbin74 wrote:
Lewis would have won that if not punted off. Even with the bad start.


Given his pace with a damaged car that is absolutely possible. Räikkönen robbed us of a fair duel for the victory. But his team is obviously happy with the gift he gave them. ;)


What damage? Also, Lewis' start put him at risk and behind Seb. There is no guarantee that Lewis would have won without the contact with Kimi.


I wrote "possible" and " duel". How about trying to read before you switch on your Ferrari defense modus?

Damage: the hit of Räikkönen's Ferrari - completely unnecessary ramming into the biggest rival of his team from far behind - has definitely caused some damage. How big is unclear, of course.


:lol:

Again.. What damage? He ran some fastest laps and finished second. Now it is "ramming"... Rather drama queen rhetoric isn't it?

BTW, it is not defense of Ferrari.. Only responding to the nature of your post.
;)

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:21 pm 
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MasterRacer wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
chetan_rao wrote:
The chap lost out on a win at his home race, something he admittedly values very highly.

A moment to compose himself shouldn't be seen as anything more.

Ignore the posters who just want to pounce on this like he committed treason. Anyone with any sense of what it's like to pour your heart and soul into something will understand that that's what this is about. He didn't want to have a microphone in his face until he'd had a moment to get himself together. Internet people can be absurd.


Give how emotional he got after getting pole yesterday, I suspect he'd be unable to say anything right out of the car even if he won today.

I get the organisers wanting to catch an 'interesting' first reaction right out of the car, but a driver wanting some space after a physically and emotionally draining race shouldn't be looked down upon.

If he'd refused to interview at all, have at him, but he was pretty normal on the podium given the circumstances.

Armchair critics (all of us) take it too far sometimes.


Well taking some space didn't do much good, he just basically accused Ferrari of deliberately trying to take him out. He's a complete whingebag at times.
Look at what happened to Seb earlier in the season when max hit him, and how Seb handled it.


Seb was real mature in Baku last year ;) They are all as bad as each other.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Bottas in interview now saying that if he could chose again with the information he had at his disposal he would have done the same again. He thought the tyres would last. So just a straightforward and understandable decision that backfired.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:22 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
AravJ wrote:
Another poor call from Merc not to pit Bottas. They could have had 2nd and 3rd at worst in this race.
Or did they sacrifice Bottas
Either way they can't complain on losing championship points to Ferrari

They just froze as usual.

I don't think they froze, i just think they gambled. Going in would have meant 2nd at best. Staying out gave the chance for the win. They clearly thought the tyres would be better than they were, given how Hamilton made his last earlier and how Bottas had been better with his first set than Vettel

It's just a consistent theme of them choosing not to react. You can often justify it on some level but I see them as still being gun-shy and overly conservative; operating as though they have the cushion of 2014-2016 when they don't.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:22 pm 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
ohwell wrote:
Did anyone catch what Kimi said right after the race ? Something about him trying his best but it not being good enough? He didn't look too happy obviously but seems like there's more to it than just the penalty. I think he drove brilliantly today except for the unfortunate incident.


lost his drive methinks.

Possibly. Ironically he's looking quicker than at any point in the last few years


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