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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:48 am 
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Zoue wrote:
I think they will take care because they won't want to ruin their own races. Vettel is fighting for the title: do you seriously think he's happy to be playing dodgems and potentially throwing away points? And do you then think that his motivator in not doing so would be not to upset Mercedes, rather than protect his own WDC position?

Mercedes throwing out unwarranted accusations will likely just have had the effect of angering those at Ferrari, rather than make them sympathetic to Mercedes' situation. I don't see any way in which that would encourage the Ferrari drivers to take more care.


Maybe Vettel doesn't believe he can win in any other way if he doesn't take big risks to overtake Lewis at the start. You keep banging on about them not wanting to risk their own races but there are different levels of risk taking. Not every driver is taking the same amount of risk at the start of races. And some are willing to risk more than others.

And yes I absolutely think that one of the motivators should be to avoid taking out another driver.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:51 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
We're going on a circle again. No driver risks taking their opponents out as a solid strategy. It has happened in the past in red mist in the final race or so, yes. But a strategy? Not in a million years a driver will risk damage to his car and a penalty (let alone amassing driver license points) to take off a few points from a race.

And take it easy in the beginning of the race? Are we serious here? "After you, no please, you qualified ahead of me sir, I insist...". Both times the red cars were somewhat boxed, this happens and will happen again and again. They are just first lap incidents.

Also, it's not in the last two races, but in the last three. It's not that it happens in every single race.

I guess Totto's strategy worked well, we are still talking about this non-issue weeks after.


I didn't say anyone is using it as a strategy. I just don't think anyone at Ferrari would mind as much if Kimi happens to take out Lewis, regardless of it being intentional or not.

Regarding, risk taking in the first corner. You believe it's fine as it is and I think there should be less risk taking should be encouraged to promote cleaner racing. We obviously don't agree and that's fine.

Oh yeah I always forget that there was a race inbetween. :)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:39 am 
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Ocon wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
We're going on a circle again. No driver risks taking their opponents out as a solid strategy. It has happened in the past in red mist in the final race or so, yes. But a strategy? Not in a million years a driver will risk damage to his car and a penalty (let alone amassing driver license points) to take off a few points from a race.

And take it easy in the beginning of the race? Are we serious here? "After you, no please, you qualified ahead of me sir, I insist...". Both times the red cars were somewhat boxed, this happens and will happen again and again. They are just first lap incidents.

Also, it's not in the last two races, but in the last three. It's not that it happens in every single race.

I guess Totto's strategy worked well, we are still talking about this non-issue weeks after.


I didn't say anyone is using it as a strategy. I just don't think anyone at Ferrari would mind as much if Kimi happens to take out Lewis, regardless of it being intentional or not.

Regarding, risk taking in the first corner. You believe it's fine as it is and I think there should be less risk taking should be encouraged to promote cleaner racing. We obviously don't agree and that's fine.

Oh yeah I always forget that there was a race inbetween. :)

This is odd, I did not address you as talking about strategy. It was Mercedes themselves that mentioned the Ferrari is using this as a strategy, the very quote that started the whole conversation. Otherwise it would be just another race incident, just as it should be.

But it's not only Kimi, is it? Vettel hit Bottas too. How does that fir into their scenario? I'd agree with all of it if Kimi hit Lewis race after race, that would make sense. But the Ferrari leading driver hitting the second Mercedes driver makes this void, nonsensical. It only leaves Kimi hitting Lewis, which happened exactly once this year.

Regarding the risk; risk is inherent in the first lap, there are 20 cars racing for the first corner. They can't realistically take less risk at the very point where the race can be won or lost, they can't even go any slower as they'll have the cars behind them up their rear. All they should do is race hard and take care not to take someone out, not to leave the track nor go for a space that is disappearing fast, that is a given.

But when you say "cleaner racing" you make it sound that it was intentionally dirty play from Ferrari. Which is utter bull. Not minding if a car takes out your key opponent is different to they actively seeking him to take him out.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:33 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
Ocon wrote:
This is odd, I did not address you as talking about strategy. It was Mercedes themselves that mentioned the Ferrari is using this as a strategy, the very quote that started the whole conversation. Otherwise it would be just another race incident, just as it should be.

But it's not only Kimi, is it? Vettel hit Bottas too. How does that fir into their scenario? I'd agree with all of it if Kimi hit Lewis race after race, that would make sense. But the Ferrari leading driver hitting the second Mercedes driver makes this void, nonsensical. It only leaves Kimi hitting Lewis, which happened exactly once this year.

Regarding the risk; risk is inherent in the first lap, there are 20 cars racing for the first corner. They can't realistically take less risk at the very point where the race can be won or lost, they can't even go any slower as they'll have the cars behind them up their rear. All they should do is race hard and take care not to take someone out, not to leave the track nor go for a space that is disappearing fast, that is a given.

But when you say "cleaner racing" you make it sound that it was intentionally dirty play from Ferrari. Which is utter bull. Not minding if a car takes out your key opponent is different to they actively seeking him to take him out.

Oh ok, sorry. I thought you were responding to my post above yours, saying Ferrari wouldn't mind if Kimi took Hamilton out.

You're right, of course it's not a strategy. But I'm not gonna repeat what I said countless times. Imo it's being too agressive. I know there is a lot of risk in the first corner but there have been many incidents when a driver is at fault in first corners. You make it sound like everyone is taking maximum risk in the first corner. When in fact, there are drivers who get involved in crashes more than others because they are willing to risk more.

When I say cleaner racing, I mean what I already said several times, that perhaps being over agressive is causing some of these crashes. Why does it have to be intentional?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:46 am 
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Ocon wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I think they will take care because they won't want to ruin their own races. Vettel is fighting for the title: do you seriously think he's happy to be playing dodgems and potentially throwing away points? And do you then think that his motivator in not doing so would be not to upset Mercedes, rather than protect his own WDC position?

Mercedes throwing out unwarranted accusations will likely just have had the effect of angering those at Ferrari, rather than make them sympathetic to Mercedes' situation. I don't see any way in which that would encourage the Ferrari drivers to take more care.


Maybe Vettel doesn't believe he can win in any other way if he doesn't take big risks to overtake Lewis at the start. You keep banging on about them not wanting to risk their own races but there are different levels of risk taking. Not every driver is taking the same amount of risk at the start of races. And some are willing to risk more than others.

And yes I absolutely think that one of the motivators should be to avoid taking out another driver.

If talking about common sense means banging on, then I suppose I am. You haven't really come up with a logical reason why avoiding upsetting Mercedes would be seen by any driver as more important than not compromising their own race. It doesn't really make sense.

It's creating a problem where there is none. On two occasions a driver hit another at the start. There were four different parties involved in these accidents. Coming up with a strategy to ensure it doesn't happen again is meaningless. Other drivers have had 1st corner accidents and there hasn't been anywhere near this level of attention focused on it. It's really a non-issue


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:49 am 
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Ocon wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Ocon wrote:
mds wrote:
Ocon wrote:
I'm hoping Mercs actions will help tame the Ferraris next race. Otherwise, if it happens again, there will be even more of an outrage and rightly so.


Mercs "actions" will do nothing in preventing this to happen again. I don't know what's hard here to understand but once again, the risk-reward for this kind of things is simply not positive. Vettel hit Bottas in France, his race was ruined and he lost points. That's his deterrent right there. Not Hamilton and/or Mercedes floating some pretty stupid thoughts on it.

That doesn't apply if the nr2 driver is taking out one of Vettel or Hamilton though. That's the main concern last time vs when Bottas was hit, and that's probably why Kimi got a harsher penalty.

I don't recall Mercedes wringing their hands or taking sanctions against Bottas when he hit Kimi back in Baku last year. Or should it only apply when Mercedes are the victims? And it's already been pointed out to you that you cannot have a different set of rules for front runners. That just opens a whole can of worms regarding definitions, not to mention unwarranted favouritism. There is no scenario where front runners are treated differently to the rest of the drivers that makes F1 look good.

There are no rules that help the front runners but there is common sense. How about when other drivers have to move over to let the leaders by even when they're racing each other for points? Clearly that's favoring the leaders.

By the way, I wasn't even talking about this in my posts. Just trying to explain to some people why I think Mercedes reacted the way they did.
When has a driver moved over for another when he has been racing them for points? If that happened, you can bet the house that there would have been controversy around it


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:56 am 
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Ocon wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Ocon wrote:
This is odd, I did not address you as talking about strategy. It was Mercedes themselves that mentioned the Ferrari is using this as a strategy, the very quote that started the whole conversation. Otherwise it would be just another race incident, just as it should be.

But it's not only Kimi, is it? Vettel hit Bottas too. How does that fir into their scenario? I'd agree with all of it if Kimi hit Lewis race after race, that would make sense. But the Ferrari leading driver hitting the second Mercedes driver makes this void, nonsensical. It only leaves Kimi hitting Lewis, which happened exactly once this year.

Regarding the risk; risk is inherent in the first lap, there are 20 cars racing for the first corner. They can't realistically take less risk at the very point where the race can be won or lost, they can't even go any slower as they'll have the cars behind them up their rear. All they should do is race hard and take care not to take someone out, not to leave the track nor go for a space that is disappearing fast, that is a given.

But when you say "cleaner racing" you make it sound that it was intentionally dirty play from Ferrari. Which is utter bull. Not minding if a car takes out your key opponent is different to they actively seeking him to take him out.

Oh ok, sorry. I thought you were responding to my post above yours, saying Ferrari wouldn't mind if Kimi took Hamilton out.

You're right, of course it's not a strategy. But I'm not gonna repeat what I said countless times. Imo it's being too agressive. I know there is a lot of risk in the first corner but there have been many incidents when a driver is at fault in first corners. You make it sound like everyone is taking maximum risk in the first corner. When in fact, there are drivers who get involved in crashes more than others because they are willing to risk more.

When I say cleaner racing, I mean what I already said several times, that perhaps being over agressive is causing some of these crashes. Why does it have to be intentional?


Yeah, I see how you could read it, apologies if my post wasn't clear.

The first few corners are the most difficult, this is clear enough. You are forgetting though that they are so many races that the drivers have gotten away without incidents. I'd bet that they are far more times (talking about the front of the grid) that they got away without incident than not. The middle and the back of the pack is always even tougher, but you can't ask them to go less aggressive there. It's the nature of racing.

How would you suggest that they police this? How aggressive is too aggressive? It is not like they are playing bumping cars, damage to their own cars is deterrent enough for any driver. They risk messing their race or worse otherwise.

I have explained above how "clean" racing comes across, to me at least. The opposite of dirty racing, as in taking someone out on purpose. Which is just not the case. English is not my first language, so I may be reading too much here.

I don't think that we will agree on this anyway, so better to leave it here I guess


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:32 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Ocon wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I think they will take care because they won't want to ruin their own races. Vettel is fighting for the title: do you seriously think he's happy to be playing dodgems and potentially throwing away points? And do you then think that his motivator in not doing so would be not to upset Mercedes, rather than protect his own WDC position?

Mercedes throwing out unwarranted accusations will likely just have had the effect of angering those at Ferrari, rather than make them sympathetic to Mercedes' situation. I don't see any way in which that would encourage the Ferrari drivers to take more care.


Maybe Vettel doesn't believe he can win in any other way if he doesn't take big risks to overtake Lewis at the start. You keep banging on about them not wanting to risk their own races but there are different levels of risk taking. Not every driver is taking the same amount of risk at the start of races. And some are willing to risk more than others.

And yes I absolutely think that one of the motivators should be to avoid taking out another driver.

If talking about common sense means banging on, then I suppose I am. You haven't really come up with a logical reason why avoiding upsetting Mercedes would be seen by any driver as more important than not compromising their own race. It doesn't really make sense.

It's creating a problem where there is none. On two occasions a driver hit another at the start. There were four different parties involved in these accidents. Coming up with a strategy to ensure it doesn't happen again is meaningless. Other drivers have had 1st corner accidents and there hasn't been anywhere near this level of attention focused on it. It's really a non-issue


I said that they should try not to take anyone out, not just Mercedes. It just so happened that it was Merc they hit so they are vocal about it.

It's not that there should be new rules just because of what happened. All I'm saying is that I hope they are more careful to not take a merc out again. That doesn't mean that they will, or that you should agree that they should. I just can't understand how some are so surprised at how Merc were acting. If it was a non issue then surely no one would have even made anything out of it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:40 pm 
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@Zoue
I'm not 100% sure if it was for points, but it was last season in Abu Dhabi I think. It was after that race that you and me actually had a disscusion about it. Does it even matter though if it's for points?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:44 pm 
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Ocon wrote:
I said that they should try not to take anyone out, not just Mercedes. It just so happened that it was Merc they hit so they are vocal about it.

It's not that there should be new rules just because of what happened. All I'm saying is that I hope they are more careful to not take a merc out again. That doesn't mean that they will, or that you should agree that they should. I just can't understand how some are so surprised at how Merc were acting. If it was a non issue then surely no one would have even made anything out of it.


Hmm... why am I not so surprised at how Merc were acting...

Otherwise, everyone should try not to take anyone out. What I believe that everyone already does exactly that.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:48 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:

Yeah, I see how you could read it, apologies if my post wasn't clear.

The first few corners are the most difficult, this is clear enough. You are forgetting though that they are so many races that the drivers have gotten away without incidents. I'd bet that they are far more times (talking about the front of the grid) that they got away without incident than not. The middle and the back of the pack is always even tougher, but you can't ask them to go less aggressive there. It's the nature of racing.

How would you suggest that they police this? How aggressive is too aggressive? It is not like they are playing bumping cars, damage to their own cars is deterrent enough for any driver. They risk messing their race or worse otherwise.

I have explained above how "clean" racing comes across, to me at least. The opposite of dirty racing, as in taking someone out on purpose. Which is just not the case. English is not my first language, so I may be reading too much here.

I don't think that we will agree on this anyway, so better to leave it here I guess


No need to apologise, english isn't my first language either. I think it's probably me who misunderstood. What I meant by clean racing, was to avoid contact as much as possible. No matter if there's intention, negligence or whatever.

Yeah it's true, accidents don't happen as much at the front but the times it does happen tends to get stuck in your mind more.

I agree that it wouldn't be easy to determine what's too agressive. The only way to achieve this, is to have harsher penalties so that drivers realise that it pays of more to try and stay out of trouble as much as it is possible.

I agree on the last sentence, let's just agree to disagree.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:58 pm 
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Prema wrote:
Ocon wrote:
I said that they should try not to take anyone out, not just Mercedes. It just so happened that it was Merc they hit so they are vocal about it.

It's not that there should be new rules just because of what happened. All I'm saying is that I hope they are more careful to not take a merc out again. That doesn't mean that they will, or that you should agree that they should. I just can't understand how some are so surprised at how Merc were acting. If it was a non issue then surely no one would have even made anything out of it.


Hmm... why am I not so surprised at how Merc were acting...

Otherwise, everyone should try not to take anyone out. What I believe that everyone already does exactly that.

They already do, of course. It's not a video game, although sometimes it looks like it is. Some are more agressive than others though, and they can cause crashes and issues for others. Max Verstappen being the best example.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:06 pm 
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Ocon wrote:
Siao7 wrote:

Yeah, I see how you could read it, apologies if my post wasn't clear.

The first few corners are the most difficult, this is clear enough. You are forgetting though that they are so many races that the drivers have gotten away without incidents. I'd bet that they are far more times (talking about the front of the grid) that they got away without incident than not. The middle and the back of the pack is always even tougher, but you can't ask them to go less aggressive there. It's the nature of racing.

How would you suggest that they police this? How aggressive is too aggressive? It is not like they are playing bumping cars, damage to their own cars is deterrent enough for any driver. They risk messing their race or worse otherwise.

I have explained above how "clean" racing comes across, to me at least. The opposite of dirty racing, as in taking someone out on purpose. Which is just not the case. English is not my first language, so I may be reading too much here.

I don't think that we will agree on this anyway, so better to leave it here I guess


No need to apologise, english isn't my first language either. I think it's probably me who misunderstood. What I meant by clean racing, was to avoid contact as much as possible. No matter if there's intention, negligence or whatever.

Yeah it's true, accidents don't happen as much at the front but the times it does happen tends to get stuck in your mind more.

I agree that it wouldn't be easy to determine what's too agressive. The only way to achieve this, is to have harsher penalties so that drivers realise that it pays of more to try and stay out of trouble as much as it is possible.

I agree on the last sentence, let's just agree to disagree.


Fair enough. We can still have a nice conversation!

Personally I agree that harsher penalties may indeed deter the drivers and make them more cautious, but it is the wrong way of doing things, it sends the wrong message. Racing that you can't really race the other car, just being careful. It just strikes the wrong note. The drivers are already cautious enough, by nature the first few corners are risky and no one wants to race for one corner only.

Anyway!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:17 pm 
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Ocon wrote:
@Zoue
I'm not 100% sure if it was for points, but it was last season in Abu Dhabi I think. It was after that race that you and me actually had a disscusion about it. Does it even matter though if it's for points?

er, you brought the points up. I agree it shouldn't make a difference


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:05 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Ocon wrote:
@Zoue
I'm not 100% sure if it was for points, but it was last season in Abu Dhabi I think. It was after that race that you and me actually had a disscusion about it. Does it even matter though if it's for points?

er, you brought the points up. I agree it shouldn't make a difference

Since you agree, then I think my point stands. It happens all the time that the backmarkers races are compromised because of the front runners. But nobody makes a fuss about it unless it's the backmarkers who are hindering the leaders.

People watch F1 to see the battle upfront, that's what it's all about for most people I would say. Who cares wether Ericsson finishes 15th or 16 th. Casual fans probably don't even know the names of half the drivers, I have even met some that only know of Vettel and Hamilton.

What I'm trying to say is, that not everyone sees things from your point of view when it comes to F1. Some don't care about anything other than seeing the contenders race. Even if it's at the expense of other drivers. Vettel and Hamilton have a lot more fans than the others, so it's expected that there will be outrage if something happens.

I would say most on here seem to be avid and knowledgeable fans of F1. I on the other hand am in the casual fan category. I guess that's why our views differ so much.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:15 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:

Fair enough. We can still have a nice conversation!

Personally I agree that harsher penalties may indeed deter the drivers and make them more cautious, but it is the wrong way of doing things, it sends the wrong message. Racing that you can't really race the other car, just being careful. It just strikes the wrong note. The drivers are already cautious enough, by nature the first few corners are risky and no one wants to race for one corner only.

Anyway!


Yeah of course, I agree.

The thing for me is, that not all drivers are catious enough. Some are taking too much risk and ruining others and their own races. I think the only thing the harsher penalties would do, is maybe to deterr drivers who are known to be too adventurous. I don't think it would affect every driver.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:06 pm 
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Ocon wrote:
Yeah I know they don't want to ruin their own races. But given how Kimi has been treated, I doubt Ferrari care as much about ruining his race compared to Vettels.

You really do believe, Kimi would take out Lewis because / although Ferrari don't care about ruining his race? He is a wealthy man doing what he genuinly likes to do. I won't believe for a second, he would take out a contender because he was told so by Ferrari. Kimi? Really?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 6:25 am 
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zaar wrote:
Ocon wrote:
Yeah I know they don't want to ruin their own races. But given how Kimi has been treated, I doubt Ferrari care as much about ruining his race compared to Vettels.

You really do believe, Kimi would take out Lewis because / although Ferrari don't care about ruining his race? He is a wealthy man doing what he genuinly likes to do. I won't believe for a second, he would take out a contender because he was told so by Ferrari. Kimi? Really?

I now see how that reads differently from what I was trying to say. I was gonna say, that I doubt Ferrari care if Kimi ruins his own race if it helps Vettel. Not that Ferrari told him to do it. But they could have told him to do whatever it takes to get past him if he gets the chance. I don't think they told him to and don't think that he would on purpose. All I'm saying is that Ferrari wouldn't mind if it happened, since it's benefiting Vettel. Pretty much every strategy he gets is with helping Vettel in mind. I mean, how many races have Ferrari ruined for Kimi so far?


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Ocon wrote:
zaar wrote:
Ocon wrote:
Yeah I know they don't want to ruin their own races. But given how Kimi has been treated, I doubt Ferrari care as much about ruining his race compared to Vettels.

You really do believe, Kimi would take out Lewis because / although Ferrari don't care about ruining his race? He is a wealthy man doing what he genuinly likes to do. I won't believe for a second, he would take out a contender because he was told so by Ferrari. Kimi? Really?

I now see how that reads differently from what I was trying to say. I was gonna say, that I doubt Ferrari care if Kimi ruins his own race if it helps Vettel. Not that Ferrari told him to do it. But they could have told him to do whatever it takes to get past him if he gets the chance. I don't think they told him to and don't think that he would on purpose. All I'm saying is that Ferrari wouldn't mind if it happened, since it's benefiting Vettel. Pretty much every strategy he gets is with helping Vettel in mind. I mean, how many races have Ferrari ruined for Kimi so far?


With your present mindset about Ferrari and Kimi... Please explain why they didn't swap Kimi & Seb two races ago as it would have been easy to do and would have benefited Seb.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 4:46 pm 
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Ocon wrote:
I now see how that reads differently from what I was trying to say. I was gonna say, that I doubt Ferrari care if Kimi ruins his own race if it helps Vettel. Not that Ferrari told him to do it. But they could have told him to do whatever it takes to get past him if he gets the chance. I don't think they told him to and don't think that he would on purpose. All I'm saying is that Ferrari wouldn't mind if it happened, since it's benefiting Vettel. Pretty much every strategy he gets is with helping Vettel in mind. I mean, how many races have Ferrari ruined for Kimi so far?


And likewise, wouldn't you say that same for Merc if by some chance that was the other Finn taking out Vettel, thus benefiting Hamilton?


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2018 9:06 am 
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Ocon wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Ocon wrote:
@Zoue
I'm not 100% sure if it was for points, but it was last season in Abu Dhabi I think. It was after that race that you and me actually had a disscusion about it. Does it even matter though if it's for points?

er, you brought the points up. I agree it shouldn't make a difference

Since you agree, then I think my point stands. It happens all the time that the backmarkers races are compromised because of the front runners. But nobody makes a fuss about it unless it's the backmarkers who are hindering the leaders.

People watch F1 to see the battle upfront, that's what it's all about for most people I would say. Who cares wether Ericsson finishes 15th or 16 th. Casual fans probably don't even know the names of half the drivers, I have even met some that only know of Vettel and Hamilton.

What I'm trying to say is, that not everyone sees things from your point of view when it comes to F1. Some don't care about anything other than seeing the contenders race. Even if it's at the expense of other drivers. Vettel and Hamilton have a lot more fans than the others, so it's expected that there will be outrage if something happens.

I would say most on here seem to be avid and knowledgeable fans of F1. I on the other hand am in the casual fan category. I guess that's why our views differ so much.


This is true for many casual fans (and fanboys I guess), but in reality you do have the other drivers, they are part of the show and they do contribute to it. I remember Sato bravely passing Alonso (granted in a slightly "injured" McLaren) and Ralf Schumacher in his Super Aguri. It was absolutely awesome. Or Irvine having the audacity to unlap himself (earning a punch from Senna). Brilliant stuff! Since they are there, they shall be treated the same.

The young guns cut their teeth in the sport's lower teams and they provide upsets quite often. It is an integral part of any sport and whoever does not pay attention can miss out a lot.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:41 pm 
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Blake wrote:

With your present mindset about Ferrari and Kimi... Please explain why they didn't swap Kimi & Seb two races ago as it would have been easy to do and would have benefited Seb.


No idea why they didn't do it, it was foolish, could come back and haunt them.

It's not like I'm the only one claiming they are heavily favoring Vettel. There's been plenty of disscusions about it, and why shouldn't they? He's their best driver. Not saying Mercedes aren't doing the same though, but maybe not to the same degree.

Prema wrote:
Ocon wrote:
I now see how that reads differently from what I was trying to say. I was gonna say, that I doubt Ferrari care if Kimi ruins his own race if it helps Vettel. Not that Ferrari told him to do it. But they could have told him to do whatever it takes to get past him if he gets the chance. I don't think they told him to and don't think that he would on purpose. All I'm saying is that Ferrari wouldn't mind if it happened, since it's benefiting Vettel. Pretty much every strategy he gets is with helping Vettel in mind. I mean, how many races have Ferrari ruined for Kimi so far?


And likewise, wouldn't you say that same for Merc if by some chance that was the other Finn taking out Vettel, thus benefiting Hamilton?

I would.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:44 pm 
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Ocon wrote:
Blake wrote:

With your present mindset about Ferrari and Kimi... Please explain why they didn't swap Kimi & Seb two races ago as it would have been easy to do and would have benefited Seb.


No idea why they didn't do it, it was foolish, could come back and haunt them.

It's not like I'm the only one claiming they are heavily favoring Vettel. There's been plenty of disscusions about it, and why shouldn't they? He's their best driver. Not saying Mercedes aren't doing the same though, but maybe not to the same degree.

If it was heavily favouring Seb I doubt the discussion would have gone on so long today, with Seb getting irritated on the radio...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:02 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:

This is true for many casual fans (and fanboys I guess), but in reality you do have the other drivers, they are part of the show and they do contribute to it. I remember Sato bravely passing Alonso (granted in a slightly "injured" McLaren) and Ralf Schumacher in his Super Aguri. It was absolutely awesome. Or Irvine having the audacity to unlap himself (earning a punch from Senna). Brilliant stuff! Since they are there, they shall be treated the same.

The young guns cut their teeth in the sport's lower teams and they provide upsets quite often. It is an integral part of any sport and whoever does not pay attention can miss out a lot.



I agree that they contribute. But the main attraction is the battle for the WDC. For me, that's the main reason why I pay to watch, and probably for many others. It is natural that so many people get upset when something happens to one of the contenders vs the others. I guess not everyone sees things exactly the same though.


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