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Driver(s) of the day was / were:-
1. Lewis Hamilton 28%  28%  [ 54 ]
2. Valtteri Bottas 4%  4%  [ 8 ]
3. Sebastian Vettel 33%  33%  [ 64 ]
4. Kimi Raikkonen 14%  14%  [ 27 ]
5. Daniel Ricciardo 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
6. Max Verstappen 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
7. Sergio Perez 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
8. Esteban Ocon 2%  2%  [ 3 ]
9. Sergey Sirotkin 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
10. Lance Stroll 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
11. Fernando Alonso 8%  8%  [ 16 ]
12. Stoffel Vandoorne 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
13. Pierre Gasly 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
14. Brandon Hartley 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
15. Romain Grosjean 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
16. Kevin Magnussen 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
17. Nico Hulkenberg 6%  6%  [ 12 ]
18. Carlos Sainz 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
19. Marcus Ericsson 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
20. Charles Leclerc 3%  3%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 196
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:40 pm 
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For me,

Vettel, Hamilton & Hulk!

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:44 pm 
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Vettel, for an awesome, awesome overtake, for the 2nd race running.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:48 pm 
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I think I might give this one to Vettel. Kimi drove well at the end and made a good overtake on Max, but he should have taken him earlier in the race tbh. Feel for Bottas, thought he defended superbly but in the end his tyres gave up on him. But he was very quick earlier in the race and I think he drove really well. My second nominee. But Vettel's overtake was superb and he earned his result today


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:50 pm 
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Vettel - brilliant overtake for the win
Hamilton - showed great pace coming through the field
Hulkenberg - best of the rest in a car that I think struggled a bit this weekend


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:56 pm 
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Vettel just for the overtake.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:02 pm 
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Vettel - win with the overtake of the year
Hulk - for winning Formula "B" competition
Kimi - podium with a real overtake

Honorable mention to Hamilton. I discounted him for the reason that he did not have any "real" overtake/battle. The difference between his Merc and Formula "B" is awesome. Trailed 6th and he found himself third after SC/pitstop mix down. Bottas was half heated in defending against him, not 5% of aggression toward Vettel. Yet, one of those good races where his talent came into play to keep up and not make any mistake. Clear, good race for him.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:04 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
Vettel just for the overtake.


Well, he overtook a car on slower tyres with shot tyres. How sensational.

Still, a very good race by Vettel. Fantastic start but struggled towards the end of the first stint. Just disappointing that his teammate took his main opposition for the win out of contention. Could have been a great duel.

DOTD: Alonso, Hamilton, Leclerc, Vettel


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:07 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Vettel - win with the overtake of the year
Hulk - for winning Formula "B" competition
Kimi - podium with a real overtake

Honorable mention to Hamilton. I discounted him for the reason that he did not have any "real" overtake/battle. The difference between his Merc and Formula "B" is awesome. Trailed 6th and he found himself third after SC/pitstop mix down. Bottas was half heated in defending against him, not 5% of aggression toward Vettel. Yet, one of those good races where his talent came into play to keep up and not make any mistake. Clear, good race for him.


Bottas defended Hamilton similarly or more than Räikkönen.

Räikkönen driver of the race after his first lap antics? For Ferrari that is certainly true ....

:lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:18 pm 
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I vote for Hamilton. An impressive recovery drive after a collision that wasn't his fault and looked the fastest on track today.

Bottas defended very aggressively against Hamilton for a supposedly orchestrated team order.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:20 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Vettel - win with the overtake of the year
Hulk - for winning Formula "B" competition
Kimi - podium with a real overtake

Honorable mention to Hamilton. I discounted him for the reason that he did not have any "real" overtake/battle. The difference between his Merc and Formula "B" is awesome. Trailed 6th and he found himself third after SC/pitstop mix down. Bottas was half heated in defending against him, not 5% of aggression toward Vettel. Yet, one of those good races where his talent came into play to keep up and not make any mistake. Clear, good race for him.


Bottas defended Hamilton similarly or more than Räikkönen.

Räikkönen driver of the race after his first lap antics? For Ferrari that is certainly true ....

:lol:

If you can not take different opinion without bashing and belittling, why do you bother reading forums?
Do you really think that there was any premeditated act in the first lap accident?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Vettel - win with the overtake of the year
Hulk - for winning Formula "B" competition
Kimi - podium with a real overtake

Honorable mention to Hamilton. I discounted him for the reason that he did not have any "real" overtake/battle. The difference between his Merc and Formula "B" is awesome. Trailed 6th and he found himself third after SC/pitstop mix down. Bottas was half heated in defending against him, not 5% of aggression toward Vettel. Yet, one of those good races where his talent came into play to keep up and not make any mistake. Clear, good race for him.


Bottas defended Hamilton similarly or more than Räikkönen.

Räikkönen driver of the race after his first lap antics? For Ferrari that is certainly true ....

:lol:

If you can not take different opinion without bashing and belittling, why do you bother reading forums?
Do you really think that there was any premeditated act in the first lap accident?


Well, if you cannot take comments on your opinion, why bother posting? ;)

And to your last sentence: where do I claim so? But at the least it was a stupid mistake.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:28 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Vettel - win with the overtake of the year
Hulk - for winning Formula "B" competition
Kimi - podium with a real overtake

Honorable mention to Hamilton. I discounted him for the reason that he did not have any "real" overtake/battle. The difference between his Merc and Formula "B" is awesome. Trailed 6th and he found himself third after SC/pitstop mix down. Bottas was half heated in defending against him, not 5% of aggression toward Vettel. Yet, one of those good races where his talent came into play to keep up and not make any mistake. Clear, good race for him.


Bottas defended Hamilton similarly or more than Räikkönen.

Räikkönen driver of the race after his first lap antics? For Ferrari that is certainly true ....

:lol:

If you can not take different opinion without bashing and belittling, why do you bother reading forums?
Do you really think that there was any premeditated act in the first lap accident?

I don't think anyone has suggested it was premeditated but it was a poor mistake on Kimi's part, as he admitted himself. And mistakes are not conducive to winning Driver of the Day.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:29 pm 
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Vettel Kimi and Hamilton. Amazing drives from all three.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:33 pm 
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Vettel fully deserves dotd.

Hulkenberg was quite decent too.

Hamilton was entertaining, but nothing special given his car advantage and the safety car.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:33 pm 
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j man wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Vettel - win with the overtake of the year
Hulk - for winning Formula "B" competition
Kimi - podium with a real overtake

Honorable mention to Hamilton. I discounted him for the reason that he did not have any "real" overtake/battle. The difference between his Merc and Formula "B" is awesome. Trailed 6th and he found himself third after SC/pitstop mix down. Bottas was half heated in defending against him, not 5% of aggression toward Vettel. Yet, one of those good races where his talent came into play to keep up and not make any mistake. Clear, good race for him.


Bottas defended Hamilton similarly or more than Räikkönen.

Räikkönen driver of the race after his first lap antics? For Ferrari that is certainly true ....

:lol:

If you can not take different opinion without bashing and belittling, why do you bother reading forums?
Do you really think that there was any premeditated act in the first lap accident?

I don't think anyone has suggested it was premeditated but it was a poor mistake on Kimi's part, as he admitted himself. And mistakes are not conducive to winning Driver of the Day.

I think it was a fairly minor mistake, tbh. Wheel locked up, it happens. They're going all out to get best position in the opening laps. Just a bit unfortunate but that's the risk when you are driving so close to each other at the start.

That said, I don't think he deserves DotD. He should have passed Max much earlier and letting Max by him again after he'd overtaken him was pretty bad. He did drive well after that but not a perfect race by any means. Needed a SC to get past the Bulls and he had a much quicker car


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:34 pm 
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j man wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Vettel - win with the overtake of the year
Hulk - for winning Formula "B" competition
Kimi - podium with a real overtake

Honorable mention to Hamilton. I discounted him for the reason that he did not have any "real" overtake/battle. The difference between his Merc and Formula "B" is awesome. Trailed 6th and he found himself third after SC/pitstop mix down. Bottas was half heated in defending against him, not 5% of aggression toward Vettel. Yet, one of those good races where his talent came into play to keep up and not make any mistake. Clear, good race for him.


Bottas defended Hamilton similarly or more than Räikkönen.

Räikkönen driver of the race after his first lap antics? For Ferrari that is certainly true ....

:lol:

If you can not take different opinion without bashing and belittling, why do you bother reading forums?
Do you really think that there was any premeditated act in the first lap accident?

I don't think anyone has suggested it was premeditated but it was a poor mistake on Kimi's part, as he admitted himself. And mistakes are not conducive to winning Driver of the Day.


Mistakes happen. Are you saying Hamilton's slow start was not a mistake ?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:35 pm 
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Kimi on a great come back from that 10 sec penalty - nice moves to get through
Lewis for a great recovery drive
Sebastian for a great drive and overtake for the win


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:42 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
j man wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Vettel - win with the overtake of the year
Hulk - for winning Formula "B" competition
Kimi - podium with a real overtake

Honorable mention to Hamilton. I discounted him for the reason that he did not have any "real" overtake/battle. The difference between his Merc and Formula "B" is awesome. Trailed 6th and he found himself third after SC/pitstop mix down. Bottas was half heated in defending against him, not 5% of aggression toward Vettel. Yet, one of those good races where his talent came into play to keep up and not make any mistake. Clear, good race for him.


Bottas defended Hamilton similarly or more than Räikkönen.

Räikkönen driver of the race after his first lap antics? For Ferrari that is certainly true ....

:lol:

If you can not take different opinion without bashing and belittling, why do you bother reading forums?
Do you really think that there was any premeditated act in the first lap accident?

I don't think anyone has suggested it was premeditated but it was a poor mistake on Kimi's part, as he admitted himself. And mistakes are not conducive to winning Driver of the Day.

I think it was a fairly minor mistake, tbh. Wheel locked up, it happens. They're going all out to get best position in the opening laps. Just a bit unfortunate but that's the risk when you are driving so close to each other at the start.

That said, I don't think he deserves DotD. He should have passed Max much earlier and letting Max by him again after he'd overtaken him was pretty bad. He did drive well after that but not a perfect race by any means. Needed a SC to get past the Bulls and he had a much quicker car

:thumbup:

I'd agree with that. It was no worse than what Vettel did last week and I didn't like the lack of consistency around the penalty that was awarded. But yes, even aside from the mistake I don't think he even drove that well.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:44 pm 
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ohwell wrote:
j man wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Vettel - win with the overtake of the year
Hulk - for winning Formula "B" competition
Kimi - podium with a real overtake

Honorable mention to Hamilton. I discounted him for the reason that he did not have any "real" overtake/battle. The difference between his Merc and Formula "B" is awesome. Trailed 6th and he found himself third after SC/pitstop mix down. Bottas was half heated in defending against him, not 5% of aggression toward Vettel. Yet, one of those good races where his talent came into play to keep up and not make any mistake. Clear, good race for him.


Bottas defended Hamilton similarly or more than Räikkönen.

Räikkönen driver of the race after his first lap antics? For Ferrari that is certainly true ....

:lol:

If you can not take different opinion without bashing and belittling, why do you bother reading forums?
Do you really think that there was any premeditated act in the first lap accident?

I don't think anyone has suggested it was premeditated but it was a poor mistake on Kimi's part, as he admitted himself. And mistakes are not conducive to winning Driver of the Day.


Mistakes happen. Are you saying Hamilton's slow start was not a mistake ?

A fair point, but in my opinion a slow start that costs a driver couple of positions is not as big a mistake as causing a collision that costs a driver couple of positions and drops his rival to the back of the field.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:45 pm 
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Vettel was DOTD also for me. Great start, maintained Bottas' gap and managed to pass Bottas safely towards the end.

I thought Hamilton drove a great race, especially towards the end. His poor start and negative attitude towards the race means I have to give it to Vettel though.

I'm sure there was also impressive drives in the midfield but all eyes were on the front six today so I can't comment too much on what happened there.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:47 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Vettel just for the overtake.


Well, he overtook a car on slower tyres with shot tyres. How sensational.

Still, a very good race by Vettel. Fantastic start but struggled towards the end of the first stint. Just disappointing that his teammate took his main opposition for the win out of contention. Could have been a great duel.

DOTD: Alonso, Hamilton, Leclerc, Vettel


Ok an overtake for the win is just meh, right I get you!


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 3:55 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Vettel - win with the overtake of the year
Hulk - for winning Formula "B" competition
Kimi - podium with a real overtake

Honorable mention to Hamilton. I discounted him for the reason that he did not have any "real" overtake/battle. The difference between his Merc and Formula "B" is awesome. Trailed 6th and he found himself third after SC/pitstop mix down. Bottas was half heated in defending against him, not 5% of aggression toward Vettel. Yet, one of those good races where his talent came into play to keep up and not make any mistake. Clear, good race for him.


Bottas defended Hamilton similarly or more than Räikkönen.

Räikkönen driver of the race after his first lap antics? For Ferrari that is certainly true ....

:lol:

If you can not take different opinion without bashing and belittling, why do you bother reading forums?
Do you really think that there was any premeditated act in the first lap accident?


Well, if you cannot take comments on your opinion, why bother posting? ;)

And to your last sentence: where do I claim so? But at the least it was a stupid mistake.

I am discussing, not belittling you: I did not LOL your comment.

Your comment: "Räikkönen driver of the race after his first lap antics? For Ferrari that is certainly true ...." implies *perhaps I wrongly understood" that he did it on purpose. If you did not think so than, sorry. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:33 pm 
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Top three did very well - if you take into account that (i) Lewis had a poor start and Kimi made a mistake and that (ii) Seb, having largely controlled the race, then had to pull of a daring overtake on a quite stubborn - if somewhat compromised - Valterri, I'd give it to Seb.
Mentions to the Hulk and Fernando.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:40 pm 
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Seems like it is another one of these races that a driver charging through the field likely gets more votes than if they didn't get knocked back. Without the first lap incident and the safety car, I feel it is not that likely Hamilton will have got past Bottas. It looked like Bottas was managing his tyres at first. As his times went up and down. Someone has disagreed with me about this, but if the team say he managed them better than Vettel, I wouldn't go much further into it. They know more than us. The reason I get this feeling that Hamilton would have stayed behind Bottas unless there were team orders is because of how hard it was for Vettel to get past Bottas. Getting past the same car is even harder. So Bottas finishing ahead without team orders will have been very possible. And will have likely been down to hamilton's poor start. Think about the fact that most seemed to think Hamilton would beat Bottas in Austria because he got ahead at the start. I thought that would be likely then and would likely have been the same case this race if things had gone differently.

With the crash Hamilton had, at that stage, he was very unfortunate. But his car certainly didn't seem damaged. And given how easy this track was to overtake on, he didn't have that much of a challenge today. And then the safety car did effectively undo the time he lost. And due to him running in clean air earlier on compared to Bottas being behind Vettel, this will have been a likely reason why Bottas's good tyre life may have been a fair bit shorter than Hamilton's. Plus all that heavy defending he ended up doing. IMO, Bottas was much more challenged today and deserved to finish ahead of Hamilton. Can't quite understand the voting difference.

All this said I think I agree with Zoue. Vettel I think is the main driver I would go for. But to me Bottas was probably the next stand out. After Hamilton's poor start and unfortunate incident, Hamilton had a good solid race and recovered a lot of places himself. But this was one of the tracks that was rather easy to do it on and nothing looked that impressive. And when you watched the replays of Hamilton overtaking, so few of the drivers even attempted to defend in the slightest.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:48 pm 
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.

Why aren't people rating Bottas highly ? He did well to keep up with Vettel and only let him past at the end when his tyres were shot.

Strange ideas about what constitutes a "driver of the day" candidate.

.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:49 pm 
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Since Bernd Mayländer isn't in the list, I will have to vote for other drivers. (No criticism of Bernd, mind you, just of the exagerated use of the Spectacle Car, which more than did its job today.)

I don't often go for race winners as drivers of the day, but Vettel, Hamilton and especially Räikkönen. I'm going to miss him.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Vettel, Hamilton, then struggled to find a third candidate. Ultimately picked Alonso, again doing magics with that car.
Vettel had a flying start, controlled the race, never put a foot wrong and when he found himself behind, he overtook to take the win after a very entertaining battle
Hamilton had an entertaining first stint after the poor start, passing every one of the formula 1a cars, and had great pace on the mediums. To be honest I thought he might still win it before the safety car on a one stopper because he was on pace to put Vettel and the leaders behind him assuming they pitted again.
I could not consider kimi as a serious candidate because of his mistake, but he showed a lot of fight in that race, so kudos to him. Bottas did well, but he still failed to close the door on Vettel for that one last time. I know Seb would likely have gotten past anyway at some point but I like to see the defending car making the attacker take the outside line at least, as he had done previously to Vettel and as he had done to Kimi subsequently, so to me it was like he gave up a little bit.

Honorable mention to Hulk, for finishing where he did, and beating faster cars on that circuit, but I don't believe he did anything special.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:35 pm 
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Vettel and Kimi for me today. Kimi for looking really determined and pulling off some great proper overtakes even after that 10 second penalty. Would have loved to see how far up the order Hamilton would have got without the 2 safety cars, but it was not to be.
Hulk drove well but he was helped a lot by misfortunes of Haas and Sauber drivers. Overall clear DOTD would go to Vettel for brilliant start and then good overtake regardless of the Bottas tyres. The place and way in which it took place was great to watch. Demoralising for any driver to get passed like that.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 5:55 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Seems like it is another one of these races that a driver charging through the field likely gets more votes than if they didn't get knocked back. Without the first lap incident and the safety car, I feel it is not that likely Hamilton will have got past Bottas. It looked like Bottas was managing his tyres at first. As his times went up and down. Someone has disagreed with me about this, but if the team say he managed them better than Vettel, I wouldn't go much further into it. They know more than us. The reason I get this feeling that Hamilton would have stayed behind Bottas unless there were team orders is because of how hard it was for Vettel to get past Bottas. Getting past the same car is even harder. So Bottas finishing ahead without team orders will have been very possible. And will have likely been down to hamilton's poor start. Think about the fact that most seemed to think Hamilton would beat Bottas in Austria because he got ahead at the start. I thought that would be likely then and would likely have been the same case this race if things had gone differently.

With the crash Hamilton had, at that stage, he was very unfortunate. But his car certainly didn't seem damaged. And given how easy this track was to overtake on, he didn't have that much of a challenge today. And then the safety car did effectively undo the time he lost. And due to him running in clean air earlier on compared to Bottas being behind Vettel, this will have been a likely reason why Bottas's good tyre life may have been a fair bit shorter than Hamilton's. Plus all that heavy defending he ended up doing. IMO, Bottas was much more challenged today and deserved to finish ahead of Hamilton. Can't quite understand the voting difference.

All this said I think I agree with Zoue. Vettel I think is the main driver I would go for. But to me Bottas was probably the next stand out. After Hamilton's poor start and unfortunate incident, Hamilton had a good solid race and recovered a lot of places himself. But this was one of the tracks that was rather easy to do it on and nothing looked that impressive. And when you watched the replays of Hamilton overtaking, so few of the drivers even attempted to defend in the slightest.

You seem so certain that Mercedes employed team orders today but I don't believe that is the case. We heard no team radio to that effect and Bottas made a defensive move that would not make any sense if he was supposed to be waving Hamilton past. I'm happy to be corrected but I've not seen any evidence that an order was made; it seems more likely to me that Hamilton passed Bottas on merit while he was struggling with tyres, and Bottas was mindful of not defending too hard against his team mate (although whether Hamilton would give him the same courtesy in the reverse situation is up for question).

Was Bottas in Vettel's dirty air? I thought he was always a few seconds behind until Vettel pitted under the Safety Car. Bottas may have kept his tyres in better shape than Vettel over the first stint but Hamilton's softs lasted even longer and he spent much of his stint following other cars (even if they weren't putting up too much of a fight when it came to overtaking, he still had to follow in the turbulent air). I'd say the Mercedes in general was just better at keeping the softs in good condition today.

I appreciate you are a fan of Bottas and often make good points in his defence, but I can't agree with you here. To me Hamilton was both faster and kept the tyres in better condition today.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:01 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Since Bernd Mayländer isn't in the list, I will have to vote for other drivers. (No criticism of Bernd, mind you, just of the exagerated use of the Spectacle Car, which more than did its job today.)

I don't often go for race winners as drivers of the day, but Vettel, Hamilton and especially Räikkönen. I'm going to miss him.


Writing's on the wall then? :( I think Kimi drove a solid race today.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:12 pm 
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Vettel, Hamilton..... not overly sure on a third. The Haas boys managed to screw themselves over again, Kimi had his obvious problems, the Bulls did nothing spectacular, Sauber ruined LeClerc's day and Ericsson then ruined theirs, McLaren were nowhere and Toro Rosso even worse than that. On balance i'll give it to Hulkenberg, purely for staying out of trouble and banking the maximum points that were reasonably on offer.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:27 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Vettel, Hamilton..... not overly sure on a third. The Haas boys managed to screw themselves over again, Kimi had his obvious problems, the Bulls did nothing spectacular, Sauber ruined LeClerc's day and Ericsson then ruined theirs, McLaren were nowhere and Toro Rosso even worse than that. On balance i'll give it to Hulkenberg, purely for staying out of trouble and banking the maximum points that were reasonably on offer.

Actually I think Verstappen drove really well. He had a slower car and made keeping Kimi behind him look easy for most of the race. Some really aggressive but well controlled moves


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:40 pm 
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j man wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Seems like it is another one of these races that a driver charging through the field likely gets more votes than if they didn't get knocked back. Without the first lap incident and the safety car, I feel it is not that likely Hamilton will have got past Bottas. It looked like Bottas was managing his tyres at first. As his times went up and down. Someone has disagreed with me about this, but if the team say he managed them better than Vettel, I wouldn't go much further into it. They know more than us. The reason I get this feeling that Hamilton would have stayed behind Bottas unless there were team orders is because of how hard it was for Vettel to get past Bottas. Getting past the same car is even harder. So Bottas finishing ahead without team orders will have been very possible. And will have likely been down to hamilton's poor start. Think about the fact that most seemed to think Hamilton would beat Bottas in Austria because he got ahead at the start. I thought that would be likely then and would likely have been the same case this race if things had gone differently.

With the crash Hamilton had, at that stage, he was very unfortunate. But his car certainly didn't seem damaged. And given how easy this track was to overtake on, he didn't have that much of a challenge today. And then the safety car did effectively undo the time he lost. And due to him running in clean air earlier on compared to Bottas being behind Vettel, this will have been a likely reason why Bottas's good tyre life may have been a fair bit shorter than Hamilton's. Plus all that heavy defending he ended up doing. IMO, Bottas was much more challenged today and deserved to finish ahead of Hamilton. Can't quite understand the voting difference.

All this said I think I agree with Zoue. Vettel I think is the main driver I would go for. But to me Bottas was probably the next stand out. After Hamilton's poor start and unfortunate incident, Hamilton had a good solid race and recovered a lot of places himself. But this was one of the tracks that was rather easy to do it on and nothing looked that impressive. And when you watched the replays of Hamilton overtaking, so few of the drivers even attempted to defend in the slightest.


You seem so certain that Mercedes employed team orders today but I don't believe that is the case. We heard no team radio to that effect and Bottas made a defensive move that would not make any sense if he was supposed to be waving Hamilton past. I'm happy to be corrected but I've not seen any evidence that an order was made; it seems more likely to me that Hamilton passed Bottas on merit while he was struggling with tyres, and Bottas was mindful of not defending too hard against his team mate (although whether Hamilton would give him the same courtesy in the reverse situation is up for question).

Was Bottas in Vettel's dirty air? I thought he was always a few seconds behind until Vettel pitted under the Safety Car. Bottas may have kept his tyres in better shape than Vettel over the first stint but Hamilton's softs lasted even longer and he spent much of his stint following other cars (even if they weren't putting up too much of a fight when it came to overtaking, he still had to follow in the turbulent air). I'd say the Mercedes in general was just better at keeping the softs in good condition today.

I appreciate you are a fan of Bottas and often make good points in his defence, but I can't agree with you here. To me Hamilton was both faster and kept the tyres in better condition today.

I'm not sure where you have read that makes it look like I am so certain that Mercedes gave team orders. Look what I have put in bold. I maybe didn't make it clear enough, but in this sentence I was talking about what might have happened. If there were no safety cars or the first lap incident. I wasn't sure Hamilton would get past Bottas without there being team orders. As Bottas won't have got in front of Vettel with the tyres he was on, therefore will not have had to defend so heavily and will have likely been able to keep their performance there by managing them and pushing when Hamilton was approaching him, enough to stop Hamilton from getting by. Bottas did look very fast earlier on.

What actually did happen, I don't think Bottas did have any team orders, though what some people say make it look like it may have been possible that he was asked to give Hamilton a go. Anyway, what I think happened is that Bottas did all he could on Vettel. Once he realised Vettel was so close on the straight before Vettel past him, he may have thought it was too much of a risk to defend much. You could see that Vettel was closer this time than he had been on any other lap. It could well have been too bigger risk to put up much of a fight. By this stage, his tyres were struggling, but that surely will be as a result of defending Vettel for so long. I think myself that he didn't try to trouble Hamilton too much because he knew he wouldn't be able to keep him behind anyway at this stage. And he knew it would be better for the team if he just let him go.

In terms of the dirty air, I guess Hamilton will have been following others, but never for long at all. Bottas wasn't with DRS range no, but he was between 3 and 2 seconds behind, sometimes just under 2. And he did keep dropping back and then getting closer again. To me indicating he could have been closer but was trying to save the tyres by not getting too close to Vettel.

I don't really know what proves Hamilton was better today really. He had a poor start which Bottas didn't. Hamilton wasn't stuck or close behind cars with similar pace so could basically show his speed more. So I suppose I maybe am giving a reason here in a way. But Bottas showed some excellent defending and to be looked to have a better and more challenging race. One reason why I am surprised at the vote difference.



You are indeed right that I am a fan of Bottas. And I usually try to go into a lot of detail if I make a case to defend him. Guess I will have to disagree. But we all sometimes do.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:46 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Vettel, Hamilton..... not overly sure on a third. The Haas boys managed to screw themselves over again, Kimi had his obvious problems, the Bulls did nothing spectacular, Sauber ruined LeClerc's day and Ericsson then ruined theirs, McLaren were nowhere and Toro Rosso even worse than that. On balance i'll give it to Hulkenberg, purely for staying out of trouble and banking the maximum points that were reasonably on offer.

Actually I think Verstappen drove really well. He had a slower car and made keeping Kimi behind him look easy for most of the race. Some really aggressive but well controlled moves


Personally I think that was more of an indictment of Kimi's performance at that point of the race (though admittedly he was adamant he had damage/understeer) than anything out of the ordinary that Max was doing. Good defensive driving, sure, but with the straight line speed advantage that Ferrari had, it should have been a done deal.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:21 pm 
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Hamilton, Vettel and went Hulkenberg for finishing beat of the rest.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:27 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Vettel, Hamilton..... not overly sure on a third. The Haas boys managed to screw themselves over again, Kimi had his obvious problems, the Bulls did nothing spectacular, Sauber ruined LeClerc's day and Ericsson then ruined theirs, McLaren were nowhere and Toro Rosso even worse than that. On balance i'll give it to Hulkenberg, purely for staying out of trouble and banking the maximum points that were reasonably on offer.

Actually I think Verstappen drove really well. He had a slower car and made keeping Kimi behind him look easy for most of the race. Some really aggressive but well controlled moves


Personally I think that was more of an indictment of Kimi's performance at that point of the race (though admittedly he was adamant he had damage/understeer) than anything out of the ordinary that Max was doing. Good defensive driving, sure, but with the straight line speed advantage that Ferrari had, it should have been a done deal.

well I'd agree that Kimi should have made a better job of it, but still he got past Ricciardo but couldn't do anything about Max. And the way Max powered around Ric on the opening lap and later retook the place from Kimi after the latter had passed him under DRS were both quite special. Max didn't have the car to compete with the front runners today but he did a great job with what he had


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:29 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
j man wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Seems like it is another one of these races that a driver charging through the field likely gets more votes than if they didn't get knocked back. Without the first lap incident and the safety car, I feel it is not that likely Hamilton will have got past Bottas. It looked like Bottas was managing his tyres at first. As his times went up and down. Someone has disagreed with me about this, but if the team say he managed them better than Vettel, I wouldn't go much further into it. They know more than us. The reason I get this feeling that Hamilton would have stayed behind Bottas unless there were team orders is because of how hard it was for Vettel to get past Bottas. Getting past the same car is even harder. So Bottas finishing ahead without team orders will have been very possible. And will have likely been down to hamilton's poor start. Think about the fact that most seemed to think Hamilton would beat Bottas in Austria because he got ahead at the start. I thought that would be likely then and would likely have been the same case this race if things had gone differently.

With the crash Hamilton had, at that stage, he was very unfortunate. But his car certainly didn't seem damaged. And given how easy this track was to overtake on, he didn't have that much of a challenge today. And then the safety car did effectively undo the time he lost. And due to him running in clean air earlier on compared to Bottas being behind Vettel, this will have been a likely reason why Bottas's good tyre life may have been a fair bit shorter than Hamilton's. Plus all that heavy defending he ended up doing. IMO, Bottas was much more challenged today and deserved to finish ahead of Hamilton. Can't quite understand the voting difference.

All this said I think I agree with Zoue. Vettel I think is the main driver I would go for. But to me Bottas was probably the next stand out. After Hamilton's poor start and unfortunate incident, Hamilton had a good solid race and recovered a lot of places himself. But this was one of the tracks that was rather easy to do it on and nothing looked that impressive. And when you watched the replays of Hamilton overtaking, so few of the drivers even attempted to defend in the slightest.


You seem so certain that Mercedes employed team orders today but I don't believe that is the case. We heard no team radio to that effect and Bottas made a defensive move that would not make any sense if he was supposed to be waving Hamilton past. I'm happy to be corrected but I've not seen any evidence that an order was made; it seems more likely to me that Hamilton passed Bottas on merit while he was struggling with tyres, and Bottas was mindful of not defending too hard against his team mate (although whether Hamilton would give him the same courtesy in the reverse situation is up for question).

Was Bottas in Vettel's dirty air? I thought he was always a few seconds behind until Vettel pitted under the Safety Car. Bottas may have kept his tyres in better shape than Vettel over the first stint but Hamilton's softs lasted even longer and he spent much of his stint following other cars (even if they weren't putting up too much of a fight when it came to overtaking, he still had to follow in the turbulent air). I'd say the Mercedes in general was just better at keeping the softs in good condition today.

I appreciate you are a fan of Bottas and often make good points in his defence, but I can't agree with you here. To me Hamilton was both faster and kept the tyres in better condition today.

I'm not sure where you have read that makes it look like I am so certain that Mercedes gave team orders. Look what I have put in bold. I maybe didn't make it clear enough, but in this sentence I was talking about what might have happened. If there were no safety cars or the first lap incident. I wasn't sure Hamilton would get past Bottas without there being team orders. As Bottas won't have got in front of Vettel with the tyres he was on, therefore will not have had to defend so heavily and will have likely been able to keep their performance there by managing them and pushing when Hamilton was approaching him, enough to stop Hamilton from getting by. Bottas did look very fast earlier on.

What actually did happen, I don't think Bottas did have any team orders, though what some people say make it look like it may have been possible that he was asked to give Hamilton a go. Anyway, what I think happened is that Bottas did all he could on Vettel. Once he realised Vettel was so close on the straight before Vettel past him, he may have thought it was too much of a risk to defend much. You could see that Vettel was closer this time than he had been on any other lap. It could well have been too bigger risk to put up much of a fight. By this stage, his tyres were struggling, but that surely will be as a result of defending Vettel for so long. I think myself that he didn't try to trouble Hamilton too much because he knew he wouldn't be able to keep him behind anyway at this stage. And he knew it would be better for the team if he just let him go.

In terms of the dirty air, I guess Hamilton will have been following others, but never for long at all. Bottas wasn't with DRS range no, but he was between 3 and 2 seconds behind, sometimes just under 2. And he did keep dropping back and then getting closer again. To me indicating he could have been closer but was trying to save the tyres by not getting too close to Vettel.

I don't really know what proves Hamilton was better today really. He had a poor start which Bottas didn't. Hamilton wasn't stuck or close behind cars with similar pace so could basically show his speed more. So I suppose I maybe am giving a reason here in a way. But Bottas showed some excellent defending and to be looked to have a better and more challenging race. One reason why I am surprised at the vote difference.



You are indeed right that I am a fan of Bottas. And I usually try to go into a lot of detail if I make a case to defend him. Guess I will have to disagree. But we all sometimes do.

I agree with you that Bottas isn't getting the recognition he deserves today. He looked to be faster than Vettel and put up a pretty solid defense on worn tyres at the end. I think he was desperately unlucky but drove really well


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:17 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
j man wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Seems like it is another one of these races that a driver charging through the field likely gets more votes than if they didn't get knocked back. Without the first lap incident and the safety car, I feel it is not that likely Hamilton will have got past Bottas. It looked like Bottas was managing his tyres at first. As his times went up and down. Someone has disagreed with me about this, but if the team say he managed them better than Vettel, I wouldn't go much further into it. They know more than us. The reason I get this feeling that Hamilton would have stayed behind Bottas unless there were team orders is because of how hard it was for Vettel to get past Bottas. Getting past the same car is even harder. So Bottas finishing ahead without team orders will have been very possible. And will have likely been down to hamilton's poor start. Think about the fact that most seemed to think Hamilton would beat Bottas in Austria because he got ahead at the start. I thought that would be likely then and would likely have been the same case this race if things had gone differently.

With the crash Hamilton had, at that stage, he was very unfortunate. But his car certainly didn't seem damaged. And given how easy this track was to overtake on, he didn't have that much of a challenge today. And then the safety car did effectively undo the time he lost. And due to him running in clean air earlier on compared to Bottas being behind Vettel, this will have been a likely reason why Bottas's good tyre life may have been a fair bit shorter than Hamilton's. Plus all that heavy defending he ended up doing. IMO, Bottas was much more challenged today and deserved to finish ahead of Hamilton. Can't quite understand the voting difference.

All this said I think I agree with Zoue. Vettel I think is the main driver I would go for. But to me Bottas was probably the next stand out. After Hamilton's poor start and unfortunate incident, Hamilton had a good solid race and recovered a lot of places himself. But this was one of the tracks that was rather easy to do it on and nothing looked that impressive. And when you watched the replays of Hamilton overtaking, so few of the drivers even attempted to defend in the slightest.


You seem so certain that Mercedes employed team orders today but I don't believe that is the case. We heard no team radio to that effect and Bottas made a defensive move that would not make any sense if he was supposed to be waving Hamilton past. I'm happy to be corrected but I've not seen any evidence that an order was made; it seems more likely to me that Hamilton passed Bottas on merit while he was struggling with tyres, and Bottas was mindful of not defending too hard against his team mate (although whether Hamilton would give him the same courtesy in the reverse situation is up for question).

Was Bottas in Vettel's dirty air? I thought he was always a few seconds behind until Vettel pitted under the Safety Car. Bottas may have kept his tyres in better shape than Vettel over the first stint but Hamilton's softs lasted even longer and he spent much of his stint following other cars (even if they weren't putting up too much of a fight when it came to overtaking, he still had to follow in the turbulent air). I'd say the Mercedes in general was just better at keeping the softs in good condition today.

I appreciate you are a fan of Bottas and often make good points in his defence, but I can't agree with you here. To me Hamilton was both faster and kept the tyres in better condition today.

I'm not sure where you have read that makes it look like I am so certain that Mercedes gave team orders. Look what I have put in bold. I maybe didn't make it clear enough, but in this sentence I was talking about what might have happened. If there were no safety cars or the first lap incident. I wasn't sure Hamilton would get past Bottas without there being team orders. As Bottas won't have got in front of Vettel with the tyres he was on, therefore will not have had to defend so heavily and will have likely been able to keep their performance there by managing them and pushing when Hamilton was approaching him, enough to stop Hamilton from getting by. Bottas did look very fast earlier on.

What actually did happen, I don't think Bottas did have any team orders, though what some people say make it look like it may have been possible that he was asked to give Hamilton a go. Anyway, what I think happened is that Bottas did all he could on Vettel. Once he realised Vettel was so close on the straight before Vettel past him, he may have thought it was too much of a risk to defend much. You could see that Vettel was closer this time than he had been on any other lap. It could well have been too bigger risk to put up much of a fight. By this stage, his tyres were struggling, but that surely will be as a result of defending Vettel for so long. I think myself that he didn't try to trouble Hamilton too much because he knew he wouldn't be able to keep him behind anyway at this stage. And he knew it would be better for the team if he just let him go.

In terms of the dirty air, I guess Hamilton will have been following others, but never for long at all. Bottas wasn't with DRS range no, but he was between 3 and 2 seconds behind, sometimes just under 2. And he did keep dropping back and then getting closer again. To me indicating he could have been closer but was trying to save the tyres by not getting too close to Vettel.

I don't really know what proves Hamilton was better today really. He had a poor start which Bottas didn't. Hamilton wasn't stuck or close behind cars with similar pace so could basically show his speed more. So I suppose I maybe am giving a reason here in a way. But Bottas showed some excellent defending and to be looked to have a better and more challenging race. One reason why I am surprised at the vote difference.



You are indeed right that I am a fan of Bottas. And I usually try to go into a lot of detail if I make a case to defend him. Guess I will have to disagree. But we all sometimes do.

I agree with you that Bottas isn't getting the recognition he deserves today. He looked to be faster than Vettel and put up a pretty solid defense on worn tyres at the end. I think he was desperately unlucky but drove really well

This was my main reason for going into so much detail. I just think Bottas drive to day hasn't been respected enough. Kimi has way more votes. Seriously, was he better than Bottas? And I though Hamilton and Bottas should be much closer than they are with votes too.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:32 pm 
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So far, 18 think that Räikkönen is driver of the day, despite (or because) of him crashing into Hamilton ....
Very interesting.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
So far, 18 think that Räikkönen is driver of the day, despite (or because) of him crashing into Hamilton ....
Very interesting.


It's because you get 3 picks, driver of the day should just be 1 pick.

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