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 Post subject: Re: Bottas vs Raikkonen
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:10 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 13572
Rockie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Robot wrote:
They are both average drivers, very inconsistent and error prone, kinda hard to predict but maybe Bottas.


Neither are only "average" drivers... Not even in F1.


Kimi probably is now when viewed among his current pears. Probably sits in that middle third.


How exactly?

It's like judging Schumacher based on '10-'12.


Yes. I believe we are discussing how good Bottas and Kimi are now.


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 Post subject: Re: Bottas vs Raikkonen
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:17 am 
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Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 1370
mikeyg123 wrote:
Rockie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Robot wrote:
They are both average drivers, very inconsistent and error prone, kinda hard to predict but maybe Bottas.


Neither are only "average" drivers... Not even in F1.


Kimi probably is now when viewed among his current pears. Probably sits in that middle third.


How exactly?

It's like judging Schumacher based on '10-'12.


Yes. I believe we are discussing how good Bottas and Kimi are now.


Comparing Bottas and Kimi now means Bottas has lost out already.


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 Post subject: Re: Bottas vs Raikkonen
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:40 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:42 pm
Posts: 1960
Rockie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Robot wrote:
They are both average drivers, very inconsistent and error prone, kinda hard to predict but maybe Bottas.


Neither are only "average" drivers... Not even in F1.


Kimi probably is now when viewed among his current pears. Probably sits in that middle third.


How exactly?

It's like judging Schumacher based on '10-'12.


I don't see what's controversial.

Currently, Kimi is not often ranked amongst the top 6-7 drivers of those in F1. He may have been rated higher in the past, and was probably better in the past.

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 Post subject: Re: Bottas vs Raikkonen
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:04 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 1370
Herb wrote:
Rockie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Robot wrote:
They are both average drivers, very inconsistent and error prone, kinda hard to predict but maybe Bottas.


Neither are only "average" drivers... Not even in F1.


Kimi probably is now when viewed among his current pears. Probably sits in that middle third.


How exactly?

It's like judging Schumacher based on '10-'12.


I don't see what's controversial.

Currently, Kimi is not often ranked amongst the top 6-7 drivers of those in F1. He may have been rated higher in the past, and was probably better in the past.


Where is he ranked then?


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 Post subject: Re: Bottas vs Raikkonen
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:05 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 04, 2013 4:42 pm
Posts: 1960
Rockie wrote:
Herb wrote:
Rockie wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:

Neither are only "average" drivers... Not even in F1.


Kimi probably is now when viewed among his current pears. Probably sits in that middle third.


How exactly?

It's like judging Schumacher based on '10-'12.


I don't see what's controversial.

Currently, Kimi is not often ranked amongst the top 6-7 drivers of those in F1. He may have been rated higher in the past, and was probably better in the past.


Where is he ranked then?


Where do you think he is ranked?

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 Post subject: Re: Bottas vs Raikkonen
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 13572
Rockie wrote:

Where is he ranked then?


Probably in the middle third 8-15 based on current ability. Hence him being average among his peers.


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 Post subject: Re: Bottas vs Raikkonen
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2018 6:41 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 5393
Location: Michigan, USA
mikeyg123 wrote:
Rockie wrote:

Where is he ranked then?

Probably in the middle third 8-15 based on current ability. Hence him being average among his peers.

I would rate him 8-14th, based on fairly broad groupings:

Group 1 -- Definitely better than Kimi (as of 2018): Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Verstappen, Ricciardo
Group 2 -- Very likely better than Kimi (as of 2018): Ocon, Leclerc
Group 3 -- Within the same range as Kimi (as of 2018): Raikkonen, Bottas, Perez, Hulk, Vandoorne, Sainz, Gasly
Group 4 -- Probably worse than Kimi (as of 2018): Magnussen, Grosjean, Ericsson, Hartley
Group 5 -- A lot worse than Kimi (as of 2018): Stroll, Sirotkin

Disclaimer: these are completely subjective, and typed off the top of my head based on current impression. I'm just demonstrating that I would indeed place Kimi as roughly average on the current grid, based on current ability. That's not at all the same thing as saying I believe Kimi is average in all areas (he's not), or that his total career is average (it isn't).

But right now, based on pace, yeah. About average.

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