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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:08 pm 
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Hamilton summoned to the stewards...


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:09 pm 
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Lewis summoned to the stewards hey. Interesting..

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:12 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Ocon wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
That hamilton radio call for the 2nd stop could have been a disater had hamilton not stayed out

I know, but he overruled them last second, that's how smart he is.

I don't think he did, he had the idea too but they told him to stay out and then told him to come in again but he had already gone past the entry. Mercedes messed up the call but were fortunate.


Engineer: So box, box. Box, box.
Hamilton: Kimi's staying out.
Engineer: stay out, stay out. In, in, in, in.
Hamilton: hey man
Engineer: no, no, sorry. Okay just go, go.

Oh ok, I just went by what someone said on here. Didn't actually hear what was said.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:15 pm 
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Toby. wrote:
Lewis summoned to the stewards hey. Interesting..

They will probably just warn him. But there isn't a rule against what he did though, is there?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:16 pm 
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I don't understand why Ferrari didn't pit Kimi on the same lap as Bottas, would have come out 2nd and on fresh rubber over Hamilton.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:18 pm 
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No way the stewards will penalise the race winner and championship leader over something relatively minor like that surely?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:20 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
No way the stewards will penalise the race winner and championship leader over something relatively minor like that surely?


I don't know but I find it ridiculous that it's taken them about an hour to decide to investigate.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:20 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
I don't understand why Ferrari didn't pit Kimi on the same lap as Bottas, would have come out 2nd and on fresh rubber over Hamilton.


Well, they are often slow to switch from Vettel to considering their second driver (strategy-wise).


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:22 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
No way the stewards will penalise the race winner and championship leader over something relatively minor like that surely?


I don't know but I find it ridiculous that it's taken them about an hour to decide to investigate.

Yeah I'm very surprised there wasn't even an investigation started during the race or a note that it will be investigated after the race.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:24 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
No way the stewards will penalise the race winner and championship leader over something relatively minor like that surely?


I don't know but I find it ridiculous that it's taken them about an hour to decide to investigate.

Maybe they read my post. :-P

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:26 pm 
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5 second penalty, the same for crashing into someone and sending to the back of the grid :twisted:

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:29 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
5 second penalty, the same for crashing into someone and sending to the back of the grid :twisted:

He got a 5 sec penalty?


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:30 pm 
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Maybe a reprimand for this but nothing more severe.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:30 pm 
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Wow ok. Maybe there IS a story here. On comms it was barely mentioned. A ten second penalty would put him 4th. A 5 second penalty would mean 2nd place.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:31 pm 
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I'll be pretty annoyed if such an epic win is taken away from the winning driver for what seems like nothing. I'm not really on top of the nuances of this rule and I know people are going to say rules are rules.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:31 pm 
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Ocon wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
5 second penalty, the same for crashing into someone and sending to the back of the grid :twisted:

He got a 5 sec penalty?


Nah I'm joking.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:31 pm 
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Not to be controversial:

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Source - https://scontent.fbom16-1.fna.fbcdn.net ... e=5BCC6B38

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
No way the stewards will penalise the race winner and championship leader over something relatively minor like that surely?


I don't know but I find it ridiculous that it's taken them about an hour to decide to investigate.

Yeah I'm very surprised there wasn't even an investigation started during the race or a note that it will be investigated after the race.


Stewards weren't interested initially according to Salo but Ferrari protested under the overriding ISC rules about the pit entry. Would be 5s like Kimi unless they can prove force majeure.

I think he'll get 5s unfortunately.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:36 pm 
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Invade wrote:
I'll be pretty annoyed if such an epic win is taken away from the winning driver for what seems like nothing. I'm not really on top of the nuances of this rule and I know people are going to say rules are rules.


The Spa penalty would still be worse :-P


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:37 pm 
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A penalty would really be foolish here. F1 would be shooting themselves in the foot to artificially alter the outcome of this race IMO.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:38 pm 
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Ferrari are shy to use team orders even when Vettel and Raikkonen are on different strategies.

Mercedes shamelessly and directly use team orders to tell Bottas that he’s not allowed to challenge Hamilton even though Bottas is on fresher tyres.

That goes completely against the supposed reputation and image that has been build about both teams


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:42 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Ferrari are shy to use team orders even when Vettel and Raikkonen are on different strategies.

Mercedes shamelessly and directly use team orders to tell Bottas that he’s not allowed to challenge Hamilton even though Bottas is on fresher tyres.

That goes completely against the supposed reputation and image that has been build about both teams

Are you trying to suggest that Ferrari give Kimi more of a chance to have his own race than Mercedes do Bottas? Because the actual events of the last two years disprove that beyond any reasonable doubt. Kimi routinely has his race sacrificed for Vettel. Bottas has never had to sacrifice his own race for Hamilton and was not as fast as Hamilton at the end despite having fresher tires.

In the last few rounds, we have seen Kimi assert himself and we have seen Ferrari let him race a bit more but let's not be ridiculous.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:42 pm 
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Well, if they do punish Hamilton, I would accept it if they have reasons to due to Hamilton doing something he shouldn't have done. Thought the team were also at fault for that. But what is annoying me is why they are dealing with it so late. If it was even possible that it was incorrect what hamilton did, they should have investigated it instantly. If they did do that then, It won't have been as annoying.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:42 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Did Hamilton or Mercedes make the decision to not pit under the safety car?

Hamilton after Mercedes faltered in making a quick decision yet again, when given time however they aced the decision to pit him for ultras even though some rain was due.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:44 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
what i don't get is why they pitted Bottas and then tell him not to pass Hamilton. Was it a way to allow hamilton through? 'm not saying Hmilton didn't deserve the win, but again, Bottas has to suffer from not being able to try and attempt to pass throughout the rest of the race. At this stage of the championship, I guess it was right to limit what Bottas did. But again, given he had a chance to win before he pitted, I'm unsure the reason why things went the way they did. Unlucky again.

They pitted Bottas for the same reason Kimi was pitted they were both on the wrong tyres.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Hamilton yesterday: "To those who take joy in seeing other people fail or suffer, I feel for you.'"

His fans today: "Who cares, let's laugh at Vettel."

Who's laughing on here?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:45 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Ferrari are shy to use team orders even when Vettel and Raikkonen are on different strategies.

Mercedes shamelessly and directly use team orders to tell Bottas that he’s not allowed to challenge Hamilton even though Bottas is on fresher tyres.

That goes completely against the supposed reputation and image that has been build about both teams


Oh yes, poor bashful innocent Ferrari. Standing at the edge of the dancefloor like dainty little wallflowers, while those other wanton teams partner swap willy nilly.

I think selling Ferrari as the naive but pure racers is going to be a tough one junior.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:45 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Well, if they do punish Hamilton, I would accept it if they have reasons to due to Hamilton doing something he shouldn't have done. Thought the team were also at fault for that. But what is annoying me is why they are dealing with it so late. If it was even possible that it was incorrect what hamilton did, they should have investigated it instantly. If they did do that then, It won't have been as annoying.

I bet the reason they're dealing with it so late is because had Ferrari (assuming it's their protest) done it earlier, Bottas would have backed off so the stewards could just easily assess non-raced affecting 5-second penalty.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:47 pm 
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VDV23 wrote:
Ocon wrote:
VDV23 wrote:
blhsing wrote:
Hamilton much faster on much older tyres. His pace is simply unparalleled.


Bottas had the faster card w/ 11 laps fresher tyres but his job was not to challenge HAM but to keep Kimi at bay. So simply unparalleled is quite the hyperbole.

If that's the case, why did he try to pass him? I agree his pace is unparalled.


The order came ~T4, and that's when he backed off.

The reality of the situation though is that Bottas was only initially quicker because his newer tyres warmed up quicker, after that he couldn't match Hamilton.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:48 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Ferrari are shy to use team orders even when Vettel and Raikkonen are on different strategies.

Mercedes shamelessly and directly use team orders to tell Bottas that he’s not allowed to challenge Hamilton even though Bottas is on fresher tyres.

That goes completely against the supposed reputation and image that has been build about both teams

Are you trying to suggest that Ferrari give Kimi more of a chance to have his own race than Mercedes do Bottas? Because the actual events of the last two years disprove that beyond any reasonable doubt. Kimi routinely has his race sacrificed for Vettel. Bottas has never had to sacrifice his own race for Hamilton and was not as fast as Hamilton at the end despite having fresher tires.

In the last few rounds, we have seen Kimi assert himself and we have seen Ferrari let him race a bit more but let's not be ridiculous.

Bottas sacrificed his own race at Spain 2017 for Hamilton.

As for the highlighted part - do you seriously think that Bottas is 0.7 seconds/lap slower than Hamilton on 12 lap fresher ultrasoft? Obviously Bottas slowed down at the end because he is not allowed to race Hamilton.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:49 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
what i don't get is why they pitted Bottas and then tell him not to pass Hamilton. Was it a way to allow hamilton through? 'm not saying Hmilton didn't deserve the win, but again, Bottas has to suffer from not being able to try and attempt to pass throughout the rest of the race. At this stage of the championship, I guess it was right to limit what Bottas did. But again, given he had a chance to win before he pitted, I'm unsure the reason why things went the way they did. Unlucky again.

Bottas did not have the pace to pass Lewis at the end. All he might have done is cause a crash. He only got a run because he had a good restart. Once the tires were up to temperature, he was way off Hamilton's pace.

As far as the stops, Mercedes seemed to be totally confused. They completely screwed it up. They didn't have Bottas's tires ready and really, they should have stacked them and put both of them on new tires. They actually told Hamilton to come in but he didn't! If he had come in, he would not have won the race.

Yep under pressure Mercedes again faltered, luckily for Hamilton he decided not to pit.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:50 pm 
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F1nut wrote:
"For those that don't know me, now they do"..............

One things for certain, I know a spoiled excuse of a racing driver when I see one and LUCK is a fickle mistress............., he will never be top of my list.

It looked to me that he had a good chance of winning the race without the SC.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:51 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
Ferrari are shy to use team orders even when Vettel and Raikkonen are on different strategies.

Mercedes shamelessly and directly use team orders to tell Bottas that he’s not allowed to challenge Hamilton even though Bottas is on fresher tyres.

That goes completely against the supposed reputation and image that has been build about both teams

:lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:53 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
Ferrari are shy to use team orders even when Vettel and Raikkonen are on different strategies.

Mercedes shamelessly and directly use team orders to tell Bottas that he’s not allowed to challenge Hamilton even though Bottas is on fresher tyres.

That goes completely against the supposed reputation and image that has been build about both teams

Are you trying to suggest that Ferrari give Kimi more of a chance to have his own race than Mercedes do Bottas? Because the actual events of the last two years disprove that beyond any reasonable doubt. Kimi routinely has his race sacrificed for Vettel. Bottas has never had to sacrifice his own race for Hamilton and was not as fast as Hamilton at the end despite having fresher tires.

In the last few rounds, we have seen Kimi assert himself and we have seen Ferrari let him race a bit more but let's not be ridiculous.

Bottas sacrificed his own race at Spain 2017 for Hamilton.

As for the highlighted part - do you seriously think that Bottas is 0.7 seconds/lap slower than Hamilton on 12 lap fresher ultrasoft? Obviously Bottas slowed down at the end because he is not allowed to race Hamilton.

Bottas didn't sacrifice anything in Spain 2017. He had no prayer of winning that race and was never going to finish higher than third anyway based on his pace.

If you think Bottas slowed intentionally, how do you explain him allowing Kimi into DRS range to attack him with just 3 laps to go (several laps after being told to hold station)? If you're told to hold station, you would normally allow a 2-3 second gap but no more (especially when there's a threat immediately behind you). If you pay attention, at no point in the race was Bottas as quick as Hamilton except for when Hamilton was on 30 lap old tires and Bottas on fresh ones after his first stop. Hamilton was MUCH faster than Bottas in the race today.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:53 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
VDV23 wrote:
Ocon wrote:
VDV23 wrote:
blhsing wrote:
Hamilton much faster on much older tyres. His pace is simply unparalleled.


Bottas had the faster card w/ 11 laps fresher tyres but his job was not to challenge HAM but to keep Kimi at bay. So simply unparalleled is quite the hyperbole.

If that's the case, why did he try to pass him? I agree his pace is unparalled.


The order came ~T4, and that's when he backed off.

The reality of the situation though is that Bottas was only initially quicker because his newer tyres warmed up quicker, after that he couldn't match Hamilton.


The reality is Bottas was told to hold station on that same lap (In S3 I believe). Trying to compare pace after that is pointless. Once you're told you can't move forward your race becomes one viewed in your mirrors, just no reason to push forward.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:54 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
No way the stewards will penalise the race winner and championship leader over something relatively minor like that surely?

Suddenly consistency isn't important? :-|

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 4:56 pm 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
Hamilton yesterday: "To those who take joy in seeing other people fail or suffer, I feel for you.'"

His fans today: "Who cares, let's laugh at Vettel."


Literally not one person in here laughing at Vettel. Not one.

Did you watch the race and the spectators? Why pretending?

German Mercedes fans it looked to me.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:01 pm 
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Ferrari created their own problems here. Vettel May have binned it in the wall, but pitting Kimi was a blatant attempt to put a roadblock in front of Hamilton, and that led to the skewed strategy and subsequent hold up on track. They are so concerned with effecting rival progress they sometimes forget to run their own race.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:01 pm 
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There's the argument about not messing with race results because an investigation wasn't announced during or immediately after the race, but there's also the argument about consistency with adjudicating incidents.

Merc really have no argument, given they did make a call to pit Hamilton, however ham-fisted (pun unintended).

I'd like them to leave this alone, but that'll leave the pit-entry regs open to abuse, in potentially dodgier circumstances in the future.


Last edited by chetan_rao on Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:03 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
VDV23 wrote:
Ocon wrote:
VDV23 wrote:
blhsing wrote:
Hamilton much faster on much older tyres. His pace is simply unparalleled.


Bottas had the faster card w/ 11 laps fresher tyres but his job was not to challenge HAM but to keep Kimi at bay. So simply unparalleled is quite the hyperbole.

If that's the case, why did he try to pass him? I agree his pace is unparalled.


The order came ~T4, and that's when he backed off.

The reality of the situation though is that Bottas was only initially quicker because his newer tyres warmed up quicker, after that he couldn't match Hamilton.

I still don't get why people are saying he couldn't match Hamilton. He was very quick at the start, and we have no proof at all weather that will have continued or not. As soon as he got told to back off, he did back right off. Possibly didn't need to back off as much as he did, but you can't conclude what his realistic pace was at all as all he knew he needed to do was get 2nd, which he did. There was no point taking any risks. It didn't just look like the start that Bottas did well, he was fast through the next few corners too and if he didn't back off, he would likely have kept his tyres up to temperature and given Hamilton a challenge to the end. We can't prove things either way since Bottas was given the orders. All we know is that he had a better start and looked quicker until he got told to not challenge his team mate. Then he accepted it in the way Mercedes will probably really appreciate given how awkward their other driver often is with team orders. I don't have anything against Hamilton this race. He was indeed very strong. But people saying Bottas was slow, I feel the reason may have been earlier that he was told to look after the tyres in case things changed later. As he did at one stage set the fastest lap, then drop off pretty quickly, then later do a fastest sector again.


Last edited by TheGiantHogweed on Sun Jul 22, 2018 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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