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 Post subject: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:11 pm 
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Just watching the hungarian grand prix and kept seeing bursts of gases from the rear of the ferrari on corner entry. Anyone know exactly what it is? And its impact on the cars performance?

I heard someone mention its to blow the rear wing and other parts of the rear similar to the old blown diffuser. Ive only seen it on the ferrari and not the other ferrari engined cars so it seems unique to them.


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:34 pm 
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Nice try, Toto.


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:35 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Nice try, Toto.

:lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:41 pm 
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It's just one of a large number of speculative theories floating around at the moment re Ferrari performance. Outside of Ferrari, I don't think anybody really knows.


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:31 pm 
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All the teams have been pushing the exhaust pipe rules to the limit in an attempt to blow the rear wing. I'd be surprised if Ferrari are doing something out of the ordinary here without anyone noticing.

The waste-gate doesn't really allow you to selectively dump a load of gas out of the exhaust. Unless you are storing it in some sort of reservoir (such a thing would be easily spotted by the FIA), all of the gas comes out of the exhaust pipe anyway, the waste-gate only decides whether it goes via the turbo or not. In fact if they wanted more gas coming out of the exhaust pipe they'd be better off keeping the waste-gate closed and putting more gas through the turbo, thus forcing more air into the engine. Or just spinning up the MGU-H. Although as per my previous point I don't think this is what they are doing.

Exhaust gas is invisible unless
1) It has carbon in it from incomplete combustion (so not enough air going into the engine). This would be more commonly associated with diesels but direct injection gasoline engines do see this to some extent as the fuel and air don't necessarily mix perfectly before combustion. However this would give distinctly black smoke, which is not what we are seeing, and I don't really see the benefit of running the engine like this when there is a fuel flow limit and the MGU-H can spin up the turbo at will.
2) It has unburned hydrocarbon fractions in it from having too high an air-to-fuel ratio. This would be seen as white smoke.
3) It is from burning oil. This one has been discussed at length and the FIA have clamped down on it now so I highly doubt Ferrari would be getting away with such a thing.
4) It is cold outside and the water vapour in the exhaust condenses.

I would suggest scenario 2) is most likely, probably resulting from a downshift. Whatever Ferrari are doing, I don't think this is related.


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:51 pm 
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Last week, the two waste gate pipes were stacked above the exhaust, so I was surprised to see them alongside again yesterday. The rear wing was also different to the one last week I believe. Perhaps their experiment didn't really work convincing enough?

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:11 pm 
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I noticed it too. Burning oil, maybe?


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:34 pm 
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ReservoirDog wrote:
I noticed it too. Burning oil, maybe?

No wonder Kimi was deprived of drinking liquids in his car... that bottle was being used for the extra oil :D


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:58 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Last week, the two waste gate pipes were stacked above the exhaust, so I was surprised to see them alongside again yesterday. The rear wing was also different to the one last week I believe. Perhaps their experiment didn't really work convincing enough?



“Ferrari playing with wastegate arrangements

At Hockenheim, Ferrari experimented with a revised arrangement of the two wastegate pipes, moving them above the exhaust rather than having one either side. There was a corresponding change to the rear wing pillar and the bottom edge of the engine cover. The revised arrangement was used only on Sebastian Vettel’s car and only for a few laps during FP1 on the Friday. It was an experimental part, fitted only to check if readings on track equated with those in simulation and not intended to be used either at Hockenheim or Hungary.”

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/technical/2018/7/tech-tuesday-ferrari-airflow-mastery-post-hungarian-grand-prix-2018.html

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:53 am 
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Mayhem wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Last week, the two waste gate pipes were stacked above the exhaust, so I was surprised to see them alongside again yesterday. The rear wing was also different to the one last week I believe. Perhaps their experiment didn't really work convincing enough?



“Ferrari playing with wastegate arrangements

At Hockenheim, Ferrari experimented with a revised arrangement of the two wastegate pipes, moving them above the exhaust rather than having one either side. There was a corresponding change to the rear wing pillar and the bottom edge of the engine cover. The revised arrangement was used only on Sebastian Vettel’s car and only for a few laps during FP1 on the Friday. It was an experimental part, fitted only to check if readings on track equated with those in simulation and not intended to be used either at Hockenheim or Hungary.”

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/technical/2018/7/tech-tuesday-ferrari-airflow-mastery-post-hungarian-grand-prix-2018.html
Thanks for that! I can't help but wonder what their findings were.

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Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:36 am 
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Migen wrote:
ReservoirDog wrote:
I noticed it too. Burning oil, maybe?

No wonder Kimi was deprived of drinking liquids in his car... that bottle was being used for the extra oil :D


:lol: :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:45 am 
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Fiki wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Last week, the two waste gate pipes were stacked above the exhaust, so I was surprised to see them alongside again yesterday. The rear wing was also different to the one last week I believe. Perhaps their experiment didn't really work convincing enough?



“Ferrari playing with wastegate arrangements

At Hockenheim, Ferrari experimented with a revised arrangement of the two wastegate pipes, moving them above the exhaust rather than having one either side. There was a corresponding change to the rear wing pillar and the bottom edge of the engine cover. The revised arrangement was used only on Sebastian Vettel’s car and only for a few laps during FP1 on the Friday. It was an experimental part, fitted only to check if readings on track equated with those in simulation and not intended to be used either at Hockenheim or Hungary.”

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/technical/2018/7/tech-tuesday-ferrari-airflow-mastery-post-hungarian-grand-prix-2018.html
Thanks for that! I can't help but wonder what their findings were.


Your welcome, I’m also curious as to what if any performance gains were achieved and what circuit they will implement such a setup.

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PF1 pick 10 2016: 7th (1 win, 4 podiums), 2017: 17th (3 podiums)
Awards: Sergio perez trophy & Podium specialist
PF1 pick 3 2015: constructors 2nd, singles 5th
Autosport Gp 2016/17 - 5th
F1 Oracle 2017: 2nd (6 wins), 2016:5th (2wins)


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 1:45 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Last week, the two waste gate pipes were stacked above the exhaust, so I was surprised to see them alongside again yesterday. The rear wing was also different to the one last week I believe. Perhaps their experiment didn't really work convincing enough?



Maybe they have discovered that the streams from the small bore pipes 'direct' the main output up to the wing better.?
A slight deflection at source can change the shape of the flow. 'Air' (Gas) less dense can change the shape of the stream


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 2:28 pm 
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Its amusing reading people speculating about something Ferrari was trying which is not on the car, it's painful to fans of other teams that other teams cant figure out what Ferrari is doing, reminds me of the Redbull era when Redbull faked like it was the diffuser when they pioneered the blown exhaust and kept on covering the rear of the car whilst the innovation was beneath the sidepods.


Last edited by Rockie on Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2018 3:12 pm 
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Whatever it is, it is working for them. It's been a while since Ferrari had the better car on the track


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 Post subject: Re: Ferrari waste gate??
PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2018 9:18 am 
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Rockie wrote:
Its amusing reading people speculating about something Ferrari was trying which is not on the car, it's painful to fans of other teams that other teams cant figure out what Ferrari is doing, reminds me of the Redbull era when Redbull faked like it was the diffuser when they pioneered the blown exhaust and kept on covering the rear of the car whilst the innovation was beneath the sidepods.
That was a very interesting period indeed and it is far more interesting to me to try to understand such technicalities, than discussing things such as race strategy alterations through mandatory pitstops. Or drivers trying to work out why they still don't understand the rules. :D Having said that, I did enjoy seeing Kimi eat an icecream all those years ago. Fickle, what?

The one thing that makes me believe that there was a genuine story to the two pipes, was the altered rear wing. I would be surprised if Newey were not fascinated by the Ferrari experiment.

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