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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:57 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
IDrinkYourMilkshake wrote:
Wow. This bodes badly for Ferrari for the rest of the season. Vettel seemed to take it for granted Ferrari will stay faster, and help him recover points he lost.

Man, I wish I liked his driving talent as much as I like his personality. It's hard for me to admit, but he isn't on the level of true number 1s like Alonso & Hamilton.


How exactly?


Quite self evident.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:59 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
No. If you beat your team mate by 6 tenths then that means your team mate left at least 6 tenths on the table. Which means your team mate drove a poor lap. One or two tenths tends to indicate one team mate was just better. Such a large gap means one under-performed quite heavily. Could argue that Mercedes should have had a front row lockout

You just won't give Hamilton any credit, he basically nailed the perfect lap also he's faster than Bottas so then you get gaps like that, you could take apart every pole lap that Senna did using your criteria, they overlayed both Vettel and Hamilton's laps were Vettel was making mistakes and Hamilton didn't make one mistake.

:thumbdown:

I think Hamilton drove a very good lap. His team mate may not have gotten the best out of his car but you can't deny that Lewis did. Pulled it out when it counted and did a very good job.

I question the excessive (IMO) superlatives, because I think any driver who drops 6 tenths on his team mate has definitely not done a good job themselves.

I believe most people have said that both Hamilton and Verstappen did incredible laps but you choose to hone in more on Hamilton, Hamilton is not capable of such a high accolade it seems?

I said he drove a very good lap. In the post which you replied to. That's not enough?

re: Verstappen I asked what made people think Hamilton's performance was better than Verstappen's, given the RBR's normal qualifying deficit

Who specifically said that?

I said incredible laps by both Hamilton and Verstappen, obviously if you get pole you get more attention, but yeah it was just a good lap we can't use the word incredible.

Try and turn this into a separate debate now to dumb down Hamilton's lap perhaps?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 8:59 pm 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
I don't know if this has been mentioned but surely Mercedes played a blinder by going out on the HS straight away in Q2 giving both drivers preparation for Q3. Ferrari went out on the US and then Vettels final lap was hindered, no time for preparation for Q3.


Yes and Mercedes were more able to turn on and prepare their tyres for their laps. Ferrari seemed to fail somewhat on that front, unable to come up with a solution in the manner that Verstappen did in Mexico 2017 for example. They likely left a lot of time on the table.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:02 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Zoue wrote:
No. If you beat your team mate by 6 tenths then that means your team mate left at least 6 tenths on the table. Which means your team mate drove a poor lap. One or two tenths tends to indicate one team mate was just better. Such a large gap means one under-performed quite heavily. Could argue that Mercedes should have had a front row lockout


So if Hamilton was slower today, by 0.4 the lap would be more impressive?

Are you suggesting that Bottas didn't under-perform?

You don't seem to understand that drivers are sometimes capable of incredible performances, I don't believe we would be having this conversation if the roles were reversed and Vettel was on pole?

are you suggesting that if the roles were reversed people wouldn't be saying that Ferrari had the better car? Be honest

Who are these people, I'm sure these people who take all things into consideration given the context of the situation.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:03 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Even allowing for the length of the lap, the gaps between some team mates here is the largest of any race this year?

Perez quietly put 0.4 on Ocon. Then Hamilton, Verstappen, Alonso and Leclerc all won by 0.65+. Grosjean too I think.

Loads of corners.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:05 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Zoue wrote:


are you suggesting that if the roles were reversed people wouldn't be saying that Ferrari had the better car? Be honest

Why you bringing the car into it? Pokerman was discussing the gap between Hamilton and Bottas. That has nothing to do with Mercedes being best car today.

Vettel did the same gap to Kimi last year and an amazing job and we all rightly sung his praises and hailed him as the Singapore specialist he is.

Yes he came into the weekend as the Singapore specialist so credit was given, shame it can't be given back.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:07 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
pokerman wrote:
He actually said he would look not to crash in the first corner, I know easy said then done once you put the crash helmet on and of course as a Hamilton fan I hope he carries that out.

It's going to be a 2 stop race so if Verstappen is quick enough the race can be won without getting to the first corner first.


For Hamilton he would like to beat MV but his race is with SV all he will want to do is finish in front of him. Hamilton will go for it but I'm not sure MV will go for a suicide overtake, he is only just erasing the "Crashstappen" tag. To take out LH or SV in such a crucial title race would be very difficult to recover from.

I sort of think that the race might be between Seb and Max at the first corner anyway.

I think that Verstappen believes he has a genuine chance of winning the race without a suicide attack into the first corner.

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:31 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Zoue wrote:


are you suggesting that if the roles were reversed people wouldn't be saying that Ferrari had the better car? Be honest

Why you bringing the car into it? Pokerman was discussing the gap between Hamilton and Bottas. That has nothing to do with Mercedes being best car today.

Vettel did the same gap to Kimi last year and an amazing job and we all rightly sung his praises and hailed him as the Singapore specialist he is.

Yes he came into the weekend as the Singapore specialist so credit was given, shame it can't be given back.

I'm sensing a whiff of hypocrisy here. I looked up last year's qualifying thread and found these two little gems:

pokerman wrote:
I think if you out qualify your teammate by 7 tenths then that's still shining, also it looks like you were somewhat fooled by Vettel's sandbagging in Q2.


and

lamo wrote:
Ferrari Q3 mode to the rescue :lol:


so last year Vettel's performance was put down to sandbagging in Q2 and a special Q3 mode by you guys, but this year you're complaining because I'm questioning whether this is as special as people are making out? Hmm, ok.

And incidentally, the Q3 mode comment kind of validates my earlier comment above


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 9:33 pm 
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Interesting take on the tires from Fernando Alonso:
“We knew that we were borderline on the Q3 cut-off, but starting the race from ninth or 10th on Hypersoft tyres can be a big disadvantage tomorrow, as those tyres seemed to have quite a lot of degradation yesterday in the long runs. So I’d rather be 11th with a free choice of tyres, and hopefully we can benefit from that. It would only be worth being in Q3 if we were fifth or sixth."

Will be interesting to see how drivers starting on the Supers do compared to those on the Hypers.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:08 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Zoue wrote:


are you suggesting that if the roles were reversed people wouldn't be saying that Ferrari had the better car? Be honest

Why you bringing the car into it? Pokerman was discussing the gap between Hamilton and Bottas. That has nothing to do with Mercedes being best car today.

Vettel did the same gap to Kimi last year and an amazing job and we all rightly sung his praises and hailed him as the Singapore specialist he is.

Yes he came into the weekend as the Singapore specialist so credit was given, shame it can't be given back.

I'm sensing a whiff of hypocrisy here. I looked up last year's qualifying thread and found these two little gems:

pokerman wrote:
I think if you out qualify your teammate by 7 tenths then that's still shining, also it looks like you were somewhat fooled by Vettel's sandbagging in Q2.


and

lamo wrote:
Ferrari Q3 mode to the rescue :lol:


so last year Vettel's performance was put down to sandbagging in Q2 and a special Q3 mode by you guys, but this year you're complaining because I'm questioning whether this is as special as people are making out? Hmm, ok.

And incidentally, the Q3 mode comment kind of validates my earlier comment above

I was replying to someone throwing shade on Hamilton and the sandbagging would I guess refer to Vettel not being the fastest through qualifying only being as quick as Hamilton in Q2, why are you quoting out of context.

Then you quote someone you had a spat with from which he left the site again out of context, do you not think perhaps the lol indicated a hint of sarcasm in a season were it seemed everytime Hamilton qualified on pole was because of a special qualifying mode?

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:32 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Zoue wrote:


are you suggesting that if the roles were reversed people wouldn't be saying that Ferrari had the better car? Be honest

Why you bringing the car into it? Pokerman was discussing the gap between Hamilton and Bottas. That has nothing to do with Mercedes being best car today.

Vettel did the same gap to Kimi last year and an amazing job and we all rightly sung his praises and hailed him as the Singapore specialist he is.

Yes he came into the weekend as the Singapore specialist so credit was given, shame it can't be given back.

I'm sensing a whiff of hypocrisy here. I looked up last year's qualifying thread and found these two little gems:

pokerman wrote:
I think if you out qualify your teammate by 7 tenths then that's still shining, also it looks like you were somewhat fooled by Vettel's sandbagging in Q2.


and

lamo wrote:
Ferrari Q3 mode to the rescue :lol:


so last year Vettel's performance was put down to sandbagging in Q2 and a special Q3 mode by you guys, but this year you're complaining because I'm questioning whether this is as special as people are making out? Hmm, ok.

And incidentally, the Q3 mode comment kind of validates my earlier comment above

I was replying to someone throwing shade on Hamilton and the sandbagging would I guess refer to Vettel not being the fastest through qualifying only being as quick as Hamilton in Q2, why are you quoting out of context.

Then you quote someone you had a spat with from which he left the site again out of context, do you not think perhaps the lol indicated a hint of sarcasm in a season were it seemed everytime Hamilton qualified on pole was because of a special qualifying mode?

is that so much different to this year? Last year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and he was accused by you of sandbagging in Q2. This year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and you're miffed because you want everyone to give him unconditional praise. I can't help but feel there's a double standard here.

I didn't quote out of context. I quoted in full.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 10:59 pm 
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In general there is always a bit of a double standard on Vettel and Hamilton. When Vettel outqualifies Hamilton by 0.6 seconds, the talking point will always be about how good Ferrari is, even if Vettel’s gap over Raikkonen is similar.


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PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:04 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
In general there is always a bit of a double standard on Vettel and Hamilton. When Vettel outqualifies Hamilton by 0.6 seconds, the talking point will always be about how good Ferrari is, even if Vettel’s gap over Raikkonen is similar.


I'm not sure where this comes from, as I remember the reaction being glowing and the plaudits effusive for Vettel's past Singapore efforts.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:15 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
In general there is always a bit of a double standard on Vettel and Hamilton. When Vettel outqualifies Hamilton by 0.6 seconds, the talking point will always be about how good Ferrari is, even if Vettel’s gap over Raikkonen is similar.


That hasn't happened in the last 2 seasons. Except for in Singapore last year where Hamilton himself was also 0.7 ahead of his own team mate. I.e Vettel was 1.3 seconds ahead of Bottas so there wasn't much doubt to which car was better.

Vettel also put 0.5 on Hamilton in China this year but Kimi was only 0.1 behind him. He was also 0.5 up on Hamilton in Russia last year but Kimi was again less than 0.060 behind and is also rightly considered a terrible performance from Hamilton.

Not sure where the double standard is?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 4:03 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Interesting take on the tires from Fernando Alonso:
“We knew that we were borderline on the Q3 cut-off, but starting the race from ninth or 10th on Hypersoft tyres can be a big disadvantage tomorrow, as those tyres seemed to have quite a lot of degradation yesterday in the long runs. So I’d rather be 11th with a free choice of tyres, and hopefully we can benefit from that. It would only be worth being in Q3 if we were fifth or sixth."

Will be interesting to see how drivers starting on the Supers do compared to those on the Hypers.


Perez, Grosjean, Ocon & Hulkenberg would be at a disadvantage as the hypers have shown a big degradation pattern. The front 6 will have a pace advantage so they should run away from the field but from 7th to 10th, they're in a quandary. If there's a safety car in the starting laps, they'll surely come in to change to ultras, if not softs!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:14 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Not a lot of love for the Softs from Ferrari I see


No one is going to use that tyre in the race really.

It's like using the white striped tyre when the red and yellow striped are available.


A bold statement - and so very wrong.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:28 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Not a lot of love for the Softs from Ferrari I see


No one is going to use that tyre in the race really.

It's like using the white striped tyre when the red and yellow striped are available.


A bold statement - and so very wrong.


:lol:


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:24 pm 
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i saw last night grosjean received a blocking penalty. i have no idea how someone gives a penalty to a guy in a position battle. too many penalties, imo
there has been whining about back markers for a long, long time, but it seems out of control now (bottas also-he was no where near making a pass on hulk)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:41 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Interesting take on the tires from Fernando Alonso:
“We knew that we were borderline on the Q3 cut-off, but starting the race from ninth or 10th on Hypersoft tyres can be a big disadvantage tomorrow, as those tyres seemed to have quite a lot of degradation yesterday in the long runs. So I’d rather be 11th with a free choice of tyres, and hopefully we can benefit from that. It would only be worth being in Q3 if we were fifth or sixth."

Will be interesting to see how drivers starting on the Supers do compared to those on the Hypers.

The guy knows his stuff. Clearly at Singapore it was an advantage to be in positions 11-14 vs positions 7-10. Alonso and Leclerc proved that.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 1:49 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
i saw last night grosjean received a blocking penalty. i have no idea how someone gives a penalty to a guy in a position battle. too many penalties, imo
there has been whining about back markers for a long, long time, but it seems out of control now (bottas also-he was no where near making a pass on hulk)

Problem is that the cars start to feel the effects of dirty air from backmarkers several seconds behind them. Hamilton said he could feel the car starting to slide more when getting within 5-6 seconds of a backmarker.

So in order to push up to the back of the backmarkers they take a lot of life out of the tyres, hence why they start complaining while still a long way behind like Bottas did.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:50 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i saw last night grosjean received a blocking penalty. i have no idea how someone gives a penalty to a guy in a position battle. too many penalties, imo
there has been whining about back markers for a long, long time, but it seems out of control now (bottas also-he was no where near making a pass on hulk)

Problem is that the cars start to feel the effects of dirty air from backmarkers several seconds behind them. Hamilton said he could feel the car starting to slide more when getting within 5-6 seconds of a backmarker.

So in order to push up to the back of the backmarkers they take a lot of life out of the tyres, hence why they start complaining while still a long way behind like Bottas did.


understood. i still see no need for a penalty.
what's next, the car in second whines that the leader needs to pull over because of dirty air? ridiculous, i know, but part of racing is dealing with traffic. i just don't see the leader as more important than guys fighting for position down the field


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:02 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i saw last night grosjean received a blocking penalty. i have no idea how someone gives a penalty to a guy in a position battle. too many penalties, imo
there has been whining about back markers for a long, long time, but it seems out of control now (bottas also-he was no where near making a pass on hulk)

Problem is that the cars start to feel the effects of dirty air from backmarkers several seconds behind them. Hamilton said he could feel the car starting to slide more when getting within 5-6 seconds of a backmarker.

So in order to push up to the back of the backmarkers they take a lot of life out of the tyres, hence why they start complaining while still a long way behind like Bottas did.


understood. i still see no need for a penalty.
what's next, the car in second whines that the leader needs to pull over because of dirty air? ridiculous, i know, but part of racing is dealing with traffic. i just don't see the leader as more important than guys fighting for position down the field

It's a fair point you're making. Just pointing out a big part of the problem is the cars/tyres.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:06 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i saw last night grosjean received a blocking penalty. i have no idea how someone gives a penalty to a guy in a position battle. too many penalties, imo
there has been whining about back markers for a long, long time, but it seems out of control now (bottas also-he was no where near making a pass on hulk)

Problem is that the cars start to feel the effects of dirty air from backmarkers several seconds behind them. Hamilton said he could feel the car starting to slide more when getting within 5-6 seconds of a backmarker.

So in order to push up to the back of the backmarkers they take a lot of life out of the tyres, hence why they start complaining while still a long way behind like Bottas did.


understood. i still see no need for a penalty.
what's next, the car in second whines that the leader needs to pull over because of dirty air? ridiculous, i know, but part of racing is dealing with traffic. i just don't see the leader as more important than guys fighting for position down the field


Whilst you nor I may not agree with them completely, there are rules against this sort of thing. Grosjean broke them. The penalty was justified.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Herb wrote:
pc27b wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i saw last night grosjean received a blocking penalty. i have no idea how someone gives a penalty to a guy in a position battle. too many penalties, imo
there has been whining about back markers for a long, long time, but it seems out of control now (bottas also-he was no where near making a pass on hulk)

Problem is that the cars start to feel the effects of dirty air from backmarkers several seconds behind them. Hamilton said he could feel the car starting to slide more when getting within 5-6 seconds of a backmarker.

So in order to push up to the back of the backmarkers they take a lot of life out of the tyres, hence why they start complaining while still a long way behind like Bottas did.


understood. i still see no need for a penalty.
what's next, the car in second whines that the leader needs to pull over because of dirty air? ridiculous, i know, but part of racing is dealing with traffic. i just don't see the leader as more important than guys fighting for position down the field


Whilst you nor I may not agree with them completely, there are rules against this sort of thing. Grosjean broke them. The penalty was justified.


first, i am neither a grosjean fan, or grosjean hater. all i have read is he was penalized for ignoring blue flags. two guys were battling for position. i don't see how they should be "blue flagged" to let the leader through at that point. for me, there are just to many penalties anymore. and if you think he should have been penalized or not, it's all good. more relieved to see the wickens video and he can move his hands/arms


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:45 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Why you bringing the car into it? Pokerman was discussing the gap between Hamilton and Bottas. That has nothing to do with Mercedes being best car today.

Vettel did the same gap to Kimi last year and an amazing job and we all rightly sung his praises and hailed him as the Singapore specialist he is.

Yes he came into the weekend as the Singapore specialist so credit was given, shame it can't be given back.

I'm sensing a whiff of hypocrisy here. I looked up last year's qualifying thread and found these two little gems:

pokerman wrote:
I think if you out qualify your teammate by 7 tenths then that's still shining, also it looks like you were somewhat fooled by Vettel's sandbagging in Q2.


and

lamo wrote:
Ferrari Q3 mode to the rescue :lol:


so last year Vettel's performance was put down to sandbagging in Q2 and a special Q3 mode by you guys, but this year you're complaining because I'm questioning whether this is as special as people are making out? Hmm, ok.

And incidentally, the Q3 mode comment kind of validates my earlier comment above

I was replying to someone throwing shade on Hamilton and the sandbagging would I guess refer to Vettel not being the fastest through qualifying only being as quick as Hamilton in Q2, why are you quoting out of context.

Then you quote someone you had a spat with from which he left the site again out of context, do you not think perhaps the lol indicated a hint of sarcasm in a season were it seemed everytime Hamilton qualified on pole was because of a special qualifying mode?

is that so much different to this year? Last year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and he was accused by you of sandbagging in Q2. This year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and you're miffed because you want everyone to give him unconditional praise. I can't help but feel there's a double standard here.

I didn't quote out of context. I quoted in full.

Sandbagging because Ferrari were the favourites going into qualifying, do you seriously believe that Hamilton was sandbagging?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:50 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
i saw last night grosjean received a blocking penalty. i have no idea how someone gives a penalty to a guy in a position battle. too many penalties, imo
there has been whining about back markers for a long, long time, but it seems out of control now (bottas also-he was no where near making a pass on hulk)

Without blue flags drivers can intentional influence the outcome of races especially affiliated drivers, Grosjean in particular doesn't come across as a big fan of Hamilton.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:52 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i saw last night grosjean received a blocking penalty. i have no idea how someone gives a penalty to a guy in a position battle. too many penalties, imo
there has been whining about back markers for a long, long time, but it seems out of control now (bottas also-he was no where near making a pass on hulk)

Problem is that the cars start to feel the effects of dirty air from backmarkers several seconds behind them. Hamilton said he could feel the car starting to slide more when getting within 5-6 seconds of a backmarker.

So in order to push up to the back of the backmarkers they take a lot of life out of the tyres, hence why they start complaining while still a long way behind like Bottas did.


understood. i still see no need for a penalty.
what's next, the car in second whines that the leader needs to pull over because of dirty air? ridiculous, i know, but part of racing is dealing with traffic. i just don't see the leader as more important than guys fighting for position down the field

You actually didn't see the incident, I think you need to see it before posting on here.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 4:55 pm 
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pc27b wrote:
Herb wrote:
pc27b wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i saw last night grosjean received a blocking penalty. i have no idea how someone gives a penalty to a guy in a position battle. too many penalties, imo
there has been whining about back markers for a long, long time, but it seems out of control now (bottas also-he was no where near making a pass on hulk)

Problem is that the cars start to feel the effects of dirty air from backmarkers several seconds behind them. Hamilton said he could feel the car starting to slide more when getting within 5-6 seconds of a backmarker.

So in order to push up to the back of the backmarkers they take a lot of life out of the tyres, hence why they start complaining while still a long way behind like Bottas did.


understood. i still see no need for a penalty.
what's next, the car in second whines that the leader needs to pull over because of dirty air? ridiculous, i know, but part of racing is dealing with traffic. i just don't see the leader as more important than guys fighting for position down the field


Whilst you nor I may not agree with them completely, there are rules against this sort of thing. Grosjean broke them. The penalty was justified.


first, i am neither a grosjean fan, or grosjean hater. all i have read is he was penalized for ignoring blue flags. two guys were battling for position. i don't see how they should be "blue flagged" to let the leader through at that point. for me, there are just to many penalties anymore. and if you think he should have been penalized or not, it's all good. more relieved to see the wickens video and he can move his hands/arms

So you did see the incident?

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2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 5:58 pm 
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Blake wrote:
angrypirate wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Lewis' grand lap:


All you have to do is watch how smooth the steering action is. Hamilton makes very few steering corrections which shows you how well he drove that lap


Even mores so it shows how well his car set-up was!

Yes it must have been as simple as that, meanwhile

Quote:
Wolff:

"When I saw the sector times, it felt surreal. I usually don't talk on the radio, but this time I talked to Lewis. This was the greatest lap I've ever seen from him. We knew what our car could do. His lap time was outside of our calculations."

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 2nd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:30 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
angrypirate wrote:
All you have to do is watch how smooth the steering action is. Hamilton makes very few steering corrections which shows you how well he drove that lap

Even mores so it shows how well his car set-up was!

Yes it must have been as simple as that

I think it's safe to say it was both, don't you?

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PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 14 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:52 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
pc27b wrote:
i saw last night grosjean received a blocking penalty. i have no idea how someone gives a penalty to a guy in a position battle. too many penalties, imo
there has been whining about back markers for a long, long time, but it seems out of control now (bottas also-he was no where near making a pass on hulk)

Problem is that the cars start to feel the effects of dirty air from backmarkers several seconds behind them. Hamilton said he could feel the car starting to slide more when getting within 5-6 seconds of a backmarker.

So in order to push up to the back of the backmarkers they take a lot of life out of the tyres, hence why they start complaining while still a long way behind like Bottas did.


The problem this weekend was also compounded by the fact that the front runners were hardly going for it. For periods of the race the midfield were lapping quicker than the top 6. Which is quite ridiculous if you think about it.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 8:58 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
angrypirate wrote:
All you have to do is watch how smooth the steering action is. Hamilton makes very few steering corrections which shows you how well he drove that lap

Even mores so it shows how well his car set-up was!

Yes it must have been as simple as that

I think it's safe to say it was both, don't you?

Because Hamilton didn't make any mistakes we infer the car made it easy?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 2nd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:49 pm 
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Singapore 2018 HAM pole lap vs VET second flyer...
https://streamable.com/1s552


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:25 pm 
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Vettel was ahead until his error at 1:02.
Then Hamilton storms S3


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:20 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
Even mores so it shows how well his car set-up was!

Yes it must have been as simple as that

I think it's safe to say it was both, don't you?

Because Hamilton didn't make any mistakes we infer the car made it easy?

I never said that. But it's unreasonable to suggest that Hamilton was driving around a difficult car when, quite clearly, no such thing was happening. If you want to watch someone driving around a difficult car I would refer you to a 2014 onboard from the Ferrari. It's not taking anything away from Hamilton to say his car was set up well. Hamilton always praises his team after a win or a pole: why can't his fans also accept that his team is important?

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PF1 PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 14 podiums): 2017: 19th| 2016: 3rd| 2015: 4th
PF1 TOP THREE TEAM CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): 2017: 2nd| 2015: 1st
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 United States Champion! (world #2)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:29 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Vettel did the same gap to Kimi last year and an amazing job and we all rightly sung his praises and hailed him as the Singapore specialist he is.

Yes he came into the weekend as the Singapore specialist so credit was given, shame it can't be given back.

I'm sensing a whiff of hypocrisy here. I looked up last year's qualifying thread and found these two little gems:

pokerman wrote:
I think if you out qualify your teammate by 7 tenths then that's still shining, also it looks like you were somewhat fooled by Vettel's sandbagging in Q2.


and

lamo wrote:
Ferrari Q3 mode to the rescue :lol:


so last year Vettel's performance was put down to sandbagging in Q2 and a special Q3 mode by you guys, but this year you're complaining because I'm questioning whether this is as special as people are making out? Hmm, ok.

And incidentally, the Q3 mode comment kind of validates my earlier comment above

I was replying to someone throwing shade on Hamilton and the sandbagging would I guess refer to Vettel not being the fastest through qualifying only being as quick as Hamilton in Q2, why are you quoting out of context.

Then you quote someone you had a spat with from which he left the site again out of context, do you not think perhaps the lol indicated a hint of sarcasm in a season were it seemed everytime Hamilton qualified on pole was because of a special qualifying mode?

is that so much different to this year? Last year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and he was accused by you of sandbagging in Q2. This year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and you're miffed because you want everyone to give him unconditional praise. I can't help but feel there's a double standard here.

I didn't quote out of context. I quoted in full.

Sandbagging because Ferrari were the favourites going into qualifying, do you seriously believe that Hamilton was sandbagging?[/quote]
No I don't think either were sandbagging and I'm not the one making that claim. I'm pointing out that it seems to be a double standard that when Vettel pulls out a much quicker Q3 lap he must have been sandbagging, but when Hamilton does it he's put in a magical performance. I don't really see the difference, myself.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Vettel was ahead until his error at 1:02.
Then Hamilton storms S3

Hamilton was ahead for all but 1 corner where Vettel takes much more kerb.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:06 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
Even mores so it shows how well his car set-up was!

Yes it must have been as simple as that

I think it's safe to say it was both, don't you?

Because Hamilton didn't make any mistakes we infer the car made it easy?

I never said that. But it's unreasonable to suggest that Hamilton was driving around a difficult car when, quite clearly, no such thing was happening. If you want to watch someone driving around a difficult car I would refer you to a 2014 onboard from the Ferrari. It's not taking anything away from Hamilton to say his car was set up well. Hamilton always praises his team after a win or a pole: why can't his fans also accept that his team is important?

Were did I say that Hamilton was driving a difficult car?

Shoe on the other foot Wolff said that Hamilton did a lap time that they thought was not possible on their simulations but we will go with Hamilton not making any mistakes, as in driving close to the perfect lap, as being down to the car being well set up as in well it wasn't that hard to do.

Bear in mind I am replying here to people who have a history of not wanting to give Hamilton credit for anything.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 2nd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:13 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I was replying to someone throwing shade on Hamilton and the sandbagging would I guess refer to Vettel not being the fastest through qualifying only being as quick as Hamilton in Q2, why are you quoting out of context.

Then you quote someone you had a spat with from which he left the site again out of context, do you not think perhaps the lol indicated a hint of sarcasm in a season were it seemed everytime Hamilton qualified on pole was because of a special qualifying mode?

is that so much different to this year? Last year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and he was accused by you of sandbagging in Q2. This year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and you're miffed because you want everyone to give him unconditional praise. I can't help but feel there's a double standard here.

I didn't quote out of context. I quoted in full.

Sandbagging because Ferrari were the favourites going into qualifying, do you seriously believe that Hamilton was sandbagging?

No I don't think either were sandbagging and I'm not the one making that claim. I'm pointing out that it seems to be a double standard that when Vettel pulls out a much quicker Q3 lap he must have been sandbagging, but when Hamilton does it he's put in a magical performance. I don't really see the difference, myself.

I'm not sure you know what sandbagging means, it's masking the perfomance of the car so whenever the fastest car goes slower than a few cars like Vettel did in Q1 and Q2 then that's sandbagging, Hamilton went into Q3 not expecting to be on pole, no one at Mercedes expected it, in fact the person that thought he was going to be on pole was Vettel.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 2nd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:18 pm 
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Posts: 23910
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I was replying to someone throwing shade on Hamilton and the sandbagging would I guess refer to Vettel not being the fastest through qualifying only being as quick as Hamilton in Q2, why are you quoting out of context.

Then you quote someone you had a spat with from which he left the site again out of context, do you not think perhaps the lol indicated a hint of sarcasm in a season were it seemed everytime Hamilton qualified on pole was because of a special qualifying mode?

is that so much different to this year? Last year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and he was accused by you of sandbagging in Q2. This year the pole sitter improved dramatically in Q3 and you're miffed because you want everyone to give him unconditional praise. I can't help but feel there's a double standard here.

I didn't quote out of context. I quoted in full.

Sandbagging because Ferrari were the favourites going into qualifying, do you seriously believe that Hamilton was sandbagging?

No I don't think either were sandbagging and I'm not the one making that claim. I'm pointing out that it seems to be a double standard that when Vettel pulls out a much quicker Q3 lap he must have been sandbagging, but when Hamilton does it he's put in a magical performance. I don't really see the difference, myself.

I'm not sure you know what sandbagging means, it's masking the perfomance of the car so whenever the fastest car goes slower than a few cars like Vettel did in Q1 and Q2 then that's sandbagging, Hamilton went into Q3 not expecting to be on pole, no one at Mercedes expected it, in fact the person that thought he was going to be on pole was Vettel.

I know what sandbagging means. But I don't see any difference between the two performances to warrant one being dismissed as sandbagging with the other lauded as an exceptional drive. To me it looks very much like a double standard depending on who the driver in question is


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