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Is there a clear winner between Hamilton and Vettel as drivers?
Hamilton is clearly better at this point. 81%  81%  [ 70 ]
Vettel is clearly better at this point. 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
It is still not clear who is the better driver at this point. 17%  17%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 86
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:04 pm 
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Invade wrote:
AnRs wrote:
If you just care to read above instead.


OK then. If Ferrari win the Championships I expect you to turn around and say they have the fastest car by that reasoning. :-P


Gladly : )


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:06 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
No, it's not, by all the measurements available to us Ferrari are a bit behind.

Let's see those measurements.


Not interested in reading?

No I'm just not interested in doing all the leg work for your one sentence posts, you came forward saying it was a fact, the onus is on you show your evidence.


If you just care to read above instead.

What read your flawed opinion without any facts whatsoever to back up what you are saying?

Are you the one person that voted for Vettel?

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:08 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
What read your flawed opinion without any facts whatsoever to back up what you are saying?

Are you the one person that voted for Vettel?


Why is my opinion flawed?
Why are you interested in my vote?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:11 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
What read your flawed opinion without any facts whatsoever to back up what you are saying?

Are you the one person that voted for Vettel?


Why is my opinion flawed?
Why are you interested in my vote?

Indeed I guess that would be on me to try and prove that?

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:13 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
What read your flawed opinion without any facts whatsoever to back up what you are saying?

Are you the one person that voted for Vettel?


Why is my opinion flawed?
Why are you interested in my vote?

Indeed I guess that would be on me to try and prove that?


You are the one accusing me of having a flawed opinion, do you expect me to prove that?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:27 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
What read your flawed opinion without any facts whatsoever to back up what you are saying?

Are you the one person that voted for Vettel?


Why is my opinion flawed?
Why are you interested in my vote?

Indeed I guess that would be on me to try and prove that?


You are the one accusing me of having a flawed opinion, do you expect me to prove that?

No I'm saying that I have to prove that, now do you understand that you have to prove what you said earlier and not the ones that questioned your post?

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:35 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
What read your flawed opinion without any facts whatsoever to back up what you are saying?

Are you the one person that voted for Vettel?


Why is my opinion flawed?
Why are you interested in my vote?

Indeed I guess that would be on me to try and prove that?


You are the one accusing me of having a flawed opinion, do you expect me to prove that?

No I'm saying that I have to prove that, now do you understand that you have to prove what you said earlier and not the ones that questioned your post?


I have already done that but if you just swing for the fences instead of reading that doesn't make my opinion flawed.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:48 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Why is my opinion flawed?
Why are you interested in my vote?

Indeed I guess that would be on me to try and prove that?


You are the one accusing me of having a flawed opinion, do you expect me to prove that?

No I'm saying that I have to prove that, now do you understand that you have to prove what you said earlier and not the ones that questioned your post?


I have already done that but if you just swing for the fences instead of reading that doesn't make my opinion flawed.

This is what you posted

Quote:
The Ferrari is a bit behind the Merc and has so been since 2012, the pressure is always on a Ferrari driver, nothing unusual about that.


The usual one sentence bereft of substantiating evidence.

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2013: 5th Place
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2016: 4th Place

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:48 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
It's an opinion not a fact.


No, it's not, by all the measurements available to us Ferrari are a bit behind.

Let's see those measurements.


Not interested in reading?

No I'm just not interested in doing all the leg work for your one sentence posts, you came forward saying it was a fact, the onus is on you show your evidence.

I don't often agree with Poker, but when you make statements like these you should be able to back them up AnRs.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:52 pm 
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pokerman wrote:

Quote:
The Ferrari is a bit behind the Merc and has so been since 2012, the pressure is always on a Ferrari driver, nothing unusual about that.


The usual one sentence bereft of substantiating evidence.


Do you mean that it's questionable that Ferrari have been behind Merc since 2012, that's simply a fact.
They are still behind in both WDC and WCC, and IMO looks slower right now so I don't expect that to change this year.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:26 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:

Quote:
The Ferrari is a bit behind the Merc and has so been since 2012, the pressure is always on a Ferrari driver, nothing unusual about that.


The usual one sentence bereft of substantiating evidence.


Do you mean that it's questionable that Ferrari have been behind Merc since 2012, that's simply a fact.
They are still behind in both WDC and WCC, and IMO looks slower right now so I don't expect that to change this year.

Behind in points that's all, actually you didn't make yourself clear what you meant, but now you are saying that the Ferrari looks slower I guess because of what happened in Singapore?

However in the context of this thread how can you underpin everything on the last race?

If having more points means you have the best car then everything just becomes about the car and not the driver so how can you be so proud about Vettel's 4 titles?

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:32 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:

Quote:
The Ferrari is a bit behind the Merc and has so been since 2012, the pressure is always on a Ferrari driver, nothing unusual about that.


The usual one sentence bereft of substantiating evidence.


Do you mean that it's questionable that Ferrari have been behind Merc since 2012, that's simply a fact.
They are still behind in both WDC and WCC, and IMO looks slower right now so I don't expect that to change this year.

Behind in points that's all, actually you didn't make yourself clear what you meant, but now you are saying that the Ferrari looks slower I guess because of what happened in Singapore?

However in the context of this thread how can you underpin everything on the last race?

If having more points means you have the best car then everything just becomes about the car and not the driver so how can you be so proud about Vettel's 4 titles?


Now you are swinging again, take it easy.
Merc are ahead in pole, fastest laps, results and all other measurable views we have.

Why not be proud of Red Bull and vettels 4 titles? What's wrong with them?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2018 7:17 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
Why is my opinion flawed?

Since you believe that the championship standing is the be-all of who has the best car...

Does Alonso have a better car than Magnussen or Perez?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:23 am 
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AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:

Quote:
The Ferrari is a bit behind the Merc and has so been since 2012, the pressure is always on a Ferrari driver, nothing unusual about that.


The usual one sentence bereft of substantiating evidence.


Do you mean that it's questionable that Ferrari have been behind Merc since 2012, that's simply a fact.
They are still behind in both WDC and WCC, and IMO looks slower right now so I don't expect that to change this year.

Behind in points that's all, actually you didn't make yourself clear what you meant, but now you are saying that the Ferrari looks slower I guess because of what happened in Singapore?

However in the context of this thread how can you underpin everything on the last race?

If having more points means you have the best car then everything just becomes about the car and not the driver so how can you be so proud about Vettel's 4 titles?


Now you are swinging again, take it easy.
Merc are ahead in pole, fastest laps, results and all other measurable views we have.

Why not be proud of Red Bull and vettels 4 titles? What's wrong with them?

You're aren't measuring driving mistakes and fastest laps are a nonsense indicator of the fastest car.

So long as you're happy to acknowledge that Vettel won all of his titles in the best car then at least you are being consistent.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:56 am 
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pokerman wrote:
So long as you're happy to acknowledge that Vettel won all of his titles in the best car then at least you are being consistent.

Is there any doubt that he did? I'm not a big believer that the winning car is always the best, but in the case of the 2010, 2011 and 2013 Red Bulls there's no question at all. The 2012 Red Bull was likely not the fastest car, but since the Macca was so unreliable I think it was with very little doubt the best car to have.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:05 am 
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pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:

The usual one sentence bereft of substantiating evidence.


Do you mean that it's questionable that Ferrari have been behind Merc since 2012, that's simply a fact.
They are still behind in both WDC and WCC, and IMO looks slower right now so I don't expect that to change this year.

Behind in points that's all, actually you didn't make yourself clear what you meant, but now you are saying that the Ferrari looks slower I guess because of what happened in Singapore?

However in the context of this thread how can you underpin everything on the last race?

If having more points means you have the best car then everything just becomes about the car and not the driver so how can you be so proud about Vettel's 4 titles?


Now you are swinging again, take it easy.
Merc are ahead in pole, fastest laps, results and all other measurable views we have.

Why not be proud of Red Bull and vettels 4 titles? What's wrong with them?

You're aren't measuring driving mistakes and fastest laps are a nonsense indicator of the fastest car.

So long as you're happy to acknowledge that Vettel won all of his titles in the best car then at least you are being consistent.


Is he really being consistent? The F2008 scored more wins, fastest laps, wcc points, poduims than the McLaren MP4-23 (equal poles). Yet, on a previous thead, it didn't stop this poster from pushing his view that the McLaren was the best car. He claimed that the McLaren drivers dropped the ball, influencing those stats. Yet now, he is unwilling to even consider the role of driver error in the current standings.Where is the consistency in that?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:44 am 
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aice wrote:

Is he really being consistent? The F2008 scored more wins, fastest laps, wcc points, poduims than the McLaren MP4-23 (equal poles). Yet, on a previous thead, it didn't stop this poster from pushing his view that the McLaren was the best car. He claimed that the McLaren drivers dropped the ball, influencing those stats. Yet now, he is unwilling to even consider the role of driver error in the current standings.Where is the consistency in that?


In 2008 McLaren had all Ferrari data and probably should not have been allowed to compete, but that was ten years ago and a pretty specific situation, don't you agree?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:49 am 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So long as you're happy to acknowledge that Vettel won all of his titles in the best car then at least you are being consistent.

Is there any doubt that he did? I'm not a big believer that the winning car is always the best, but in the case of the 2010, 2011 and 2013 Red Bulls there's no question at all. The 2012 Red Bull was likely not the fastest car, but since the Macca was so unreliable I think it was with very little doubt the best car to have.


I would say 2011 and 2013 was Red Bulls best years, 2010 and 2012 it was more questionable, but no year did they have the Merc advantage like 2014-16.

Look, you can call it "Trump" fact to use poles, fastest laps and results as a base, but IMO Monza and Singapore Merc have again showed that they have the fastest car again.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:49 am 
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AnRs wrote:
aice wrote:

Is he really being consistent? The F2008 scored more wins, fastest laps, wcc points, poduims than the McLaren MP4-23 (equal poles). Yet, on a previous thead, it didn't stop this poster from pushing his view that the McLaren was the best car. He claimed that the McLaren drivers dropped the ball, influencing those stats. Yet now, he is unwilling to even consider the role of driver error in the current standings.Where is the consistency in that?


In 2008 McLaren had all Ferrari data and probably should not have been allowed to compete, but that was ten years ago and a pretty specific situation, don't you agree?

We do not know how much Ferrari info made it's way to the Macca car itself. In all likelyhood not much, if any at all, the bigger impact was the settings and pit stop schedules. But that was for the year 2007 and not 2008.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:44 am 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So long as you're happy to acknowledge that Vettel won all of his titles in the best car then at least you are being consistent.

Is there any doubt that he did? I'm not a big believer that the winning car is always the best, but in the case of the 2010, 2011 and 2013 Red Bulls there's no question at all. The 2012 Red Bull was likely not the fastest car, but since the Macca was so unreliable I think it was with very little doubt the best car to have.

I was just after his take on it, oh and there's definitely doubt like no one could drive the EBD cars as good as Vettel argument and then the Webber comparison.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:46 am 
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aice wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Do you mean that it's questionable that Ferrari have been behind Merc since 2012, that's simply a fact.
They are still behind in both WDC and WCC, and IMO looks slower right now so I don't expect that to change this year.

Behind in points that's all, actually you didn't make yourself clear what you meant, but now you are saying that the Ferrari looks slower I guess because of what happened in Singapore?

However in the context of this thread how can you underpin everything on the last race?

If having more points means you have the best car then everything just becomes about the car and not the driver so how can you be so proud about Vettel's 4 titles?


Now you are swinging again, take it easy.
Merc are ahead in pole, fastest laps, results and all other measurable views we have.

Why not be proud of Red Bull and vettels 4 titles? What's wrong with them?

You're aren't measuring driving mistakes and fastest laps are a nonsense indicator of the fastest car.

So long as you're happy to acknowledge that Vettel won all of his titles in the best car then at least you are being consistent.


Is he really being consistent? The F2008 scored more wins, fastest laps, wcc points, poduims than the McLaren MP4-23 (equal poles). Yet, on a previous thead, it didn't stop this poster from pushing his view that the McLaren was the best car. He claimed that the McLaren drivers dropped the ball, influencing those stats. Yet now, he is unwilling to even consider the role of driver error in the current standings.Where is the consistency in that?

That doesn't surprise me at all.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:47 am 
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AnRs wrote:
aice wrote:

Is he really being consistent? The F2008 scored more wins, fastest laps, wcc points, poduims than the McLaren MP4-23 (equal poles). Yet, on a previous thead, it didn't stop this poster from pushing his view that the McLaren was the best car. He claimed that the McLaren drivers dropped the ball, influencing those stats. Yet now, he is unwilling to even consider the role of driver error in the current standings.Where is the consistency in that?


In 2008 McLaren had all Ferrari data and probably should not have been allowed to compete, but that was ten years ago and a pretty specific situation, don't you agree?

Which is totally unrelated to what you have been saying and looks more like a get out.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:56 am 
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AnRs wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So long as you're happy to acknowledge that Vettel won all of his titles in the best car then at least you are being consistent.

Is there any doubt that he did? I'm not a big believer that the winning car is always the best, but in the case of the 2010, 2011 and 2013 Red Bulls there's no question at all. The 2012 Red Bull was likely not the fastest car, but since the Macca was so unreliable I think it was with very little doubt the best car to have.


I would say 2011 and 2013 was Red Bulls best years, 2010 and 2012 it was more questionable, but no year did they have the Merc advantage like 2014-16.

Look, you can call it "Trump" fact to use poles, fastest laps and results as a base, but IMO Monza and Singapore Merc have again showed that they have the fastest car again.

2014-16 are totally unrelated to 2017 and 2018, it seems like some people have a Merc complex that any race they win heralds domination.

So in regard to Vettel's titles such hard stats you like to use go out of the window and now we have caveats, again why does this not surprise me?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:06 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So long as you're happy to acknowledge that Vettel won all of his titles in the best car then at least you are being consistent.

Is there any doubt that he did? I'm not a big believer that the winning car is always the best, but in the case of the 2010, 2011 and 2013 Red Bulls there's no question at all. The 2012 Red Bull was likely not the fastest car, but since the Macca was so unreliable I think it was with very little doubt the best car to have.


I would say 2011 and 2013 was Red Bulls best years, 2010 and 2012 it was more questionable, but no year did they have the Merc advantage like 2014-16.

Look, you can call it "Trump" fact to use poles, fastest laps and results as a base, but IMO Monza and Singapore Merc have again showed that they have the fastest car again.

2014-16 are totally unrelated to 2017 and 2018, it seems like some people have a Merc complex that any race they win heralds domination.

So in regard to Vettel's titles such hard stats you like to use go out of the window and now we have caveats, again why does this not surprise me?


Where did "hard stats you like to use go out of the window"? You are trying to twist things


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:08 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
aice wrote:

Is he really being consistent? The F2008 scored more wins, fastest laps, wcc points, poduims than the McLaren MP4-23 (equal poles). Yet, on a previous thead, it didn't stop this poster from pushing his view that the McLaren was the best car. He claimed that the McLaren drivers dropped the ball, influencing those stats. Yet now, he is unwilling to even consider the role of driver error in the current standings.Where is the consistency in that?


In 2008 McLaren had all Ferrari data and probably should not have been allowed to compete, but that was ten years ago and a pretty specific situation, don't you agree?

Which is totally unrelated to what you have been saying and looks more like a get out.


What is unrelated to what? You make no sense at all.
McLaren had to apologize in dec 2007, is that unknown to you?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:15 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
So long as you're happy to acknowledge that Vettel won all of his titles in the best car then at least you are being consistent.

Is there any doubt that he did? I'm not a big believer that the winning car is always the best, but in the case of the 2010, 2011 and 2013 Red Bulls there's no question at all. The 2012 Red Bull was likely not the fastest car, but since the Macca was so unreliable I think it was with very little doubt the best car to have.


I would say 2011 and 2013 was Red Bulls best years, 2010 and 2012 it was more questionable, but no year did they have the Merc advantage like 2014-16.

Look, you can call it "Trump" fact to use poles, fastest laps and results as a base, but IMO Monza and Singapore Merc have again showed that they have the fastest car again.

2014-16 are totally unrelated to 2017 and 2018, it seems like some people have a Merc complex that any race they win heralds domination.

So in regard to Vettel's titles such hard stats you like to use go out of the window and now we have caveats, again why does this not surprise me?


Where did "hard stats you like to use go out of the window"? You are trying to twist things

In 2010 Red Bull had the fastest car, more wins, more poles, a qualifying advantage of 0.33s over the next fastest car Ferrari, yet according to you it's debatable whether Vettel had the best car.

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:16 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
aice wrote:

Is he really being consistent? The F2008 scored more wins, fastest laps, wcc points, poduims than the McLaren MP4-23 (equal poles). Yet, on a previous thead, it didn't stop this poster from pushing his view that the McLaren was the best car. He claimed that the McLaren drivers dropped the ball, influencing those stats. Yet now, he is unwilling to even consider the role of driver error in the current standings.Where is the consistency in that?


In 2008 McLaren had all Ferrari data and probably should not have been allowed to compete, but that was ten years ago and a pretty specific situation, don't you agree?

Which is totally unrelated to what you have been saying and looks more like a get out.


What is unrelated to what? You make no sense at all.
McLaren had to apologize in dec 2007, is that unknown to you?

What has that got to do with the performance of the cars on the track which relates to which car was the best?

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2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:18 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
In 2010 Red Bull had the fastest car, more wins, more poles, a qualifying advantage of 0.33s over the next fastest car Ferrari, yet according to you it's debatable whether Vettel had the best car.


Where did I say that? Never, stop twisting things, my claim was that 2011 and 2013 was better than 2010 and 2012, a bit questionable perhaps.
You make your own interpretations based on your agenda.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:20 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
What has that got to do with the performance of the cars on the track which relates to which car was the best?


The claim was that McLaren had Ferrari data when the build their 2008 car, the rest is your interpretation.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:32 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
In 2010 Red Bull had the fastest car, more wins, more poles, a qualifying advantage of 0.33s over the next fastest car Ferrari, yet according to you it's debatable whether Vettel had the best car.


Where did I say that? Never, stop twisting things, my claim was that 2011 and 2013 was better than 2010 and 2012, a bit questionable perhaps.
You make your own interpretations based on your agenda.

How is saying a season was questionable not the same as saying it was debatable?

Also what happened to your wins, poles, fastest laps that determines which is the best car?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:33 pm 
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AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
What has that got to do with the performance of the cars on the track which relates to which car was the best?


The claim was that McLaren had Ferrari data when the build their 2008 car, the rest is your interpretation.

What has that got to do with which car is actually the fastest on the track?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:19 am
Posts: 943
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
In 2010 Red Bull had the fastest car, more wins, more poles, a qualifying advantage of 0.33s over the next fastest car Ferrari, yet according to you it's debatable whether Vettel had the best car.


Where did I say that? Never, stop twisting things, my claim was that 2011 and 2013 was better than 2010 and 2012, a bit questionable perhaps.
You make your own interpretations based on your agenda.

How is saying a season was questionable not the same as saying it was debatable?

Also what happened to your wins, poles, fastest laps that determines which is the best car?


If you read instead of write the same thing over and over again you migth see that I try to compare Red Bull 2010-2013.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:41 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 11:19 am
Posts: 943
pokerman wrote:
AnRs wrote:
pokerman wrote:
What has that got to do with the performance of the cars on the track which relates to which car was the best?


The claim was that McLaren had Ferrari data when the build their 2008 car, the rest is your interpretation.

What has that got to do with which car is actually the fastest on the track?


I only said that it was a special year because McLaren started with Ferrari data, the rest is your words.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:43 pm 
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This isn't the topic for yet another ding dong about Ferrari and McLaren circa 2007/8, and while i'm in here, let's try and keep things civil please guys, it's been a good topic up until the last page or so.


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