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Driver(s) of the day was / were:-
1. Lewis Hamilton 11%  11%  [ 17 ]
2. Valtteri Bottas 19%  19%  [ 29 ]
3. Sebastian Vettel 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
4. Kimi Raikkonen 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
5. Daniel Ricciardo 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
6. Max Verstappen 33%  33%  [ 50 ]
7. Sergio Perez 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
8. Esteban Ocon 1%  1%  [ 1 ]
9. Sergey Sirotkin 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
10. Lance Stroll 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
11. Fernando Alonso 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
12. Stoffel Vandoorne 1%  1%  [ 2 ]
13. Pierre Gasly 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
14. Brandon Hartley 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
15. Romain Grosjean 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
16. Kevin Magnussen 5%  5%  [ 7 ]
17. Nico Hulkenberg 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
18. Carlos Sainz 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
19. Marcus Ericsson 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
20. Charles Leclerc 25%  25%  [ 37 ]
Total votes : 150
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2018 10:44 am 
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Invade wrote:
Maybe this is a sentimental thing such as how Fiki (IIRC) was glad that Kimi got the vote for DOTD over Hamilton in Monza, but Hamilton was plainly superior. That example is way more obvious.
Blake wrote:
Of course, :lol:
Invade, I was indeed happy. But not happy enough to see Hamilton's superiority. If he had been, what was the need for team orders there? Just as in the Russian Grand Prix this weekend, there were technical factors involved in making the team orders "necessary". So Hamilton's plain superiority is not as plain as you seem to remember. I do believe the Mercedes is now the superior car to have, but in my mind that makes the use of "necessary" team orders take even more glory off the driver's effort, than in racing conditions without car superiority.
It is all about the car, all the time, every time. Which is why I have such difficulty understanding the hoopla about the drivers' championship. (And about people wanting to push the rules aside in an effort to "let them race", but that is another matter altogether.)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:54 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Ricciardo, Leclerc & Magnusson get my votes

Ricciardo but not Verstappen, are you serious?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:48 am 
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Covalent wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Ricciardo, Leclerc & Magnusson get my votes

Ricciardo but not Verstappen, are you serious?


Yes.

In matters of Driver of the Day........... i'm always serious.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:26 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Invade wrote:
Maybe this is a sentimental thing such as how Fiki (IIRC) was glad that Kimi got the vote for DOTD over Hamilton in Monza, but Hamilton was plainly superior. That example is way more obvious.
Blake wrote:
Of course, :lol:
Invade, I was indeed happy. But not happy enough to see Hamilton's superiority. If he had been, what was the need for team orders there? Just as in the Russian Grand Prix this weekend, there were technical factors involved in making the team orders "necessary". So Hamilton's plain superiority is not as plain as you seem to remember. I do believe the Mercedes is now the superior car to have, but in my mind that makes the use of "necessary" team orders take even more glory off the driver's effort, than in racing conditions without car superiority.
It is all about the car, all the time, every time. Which is why I have such difficulty understanding the hoopla about the drivers' championship. (And about people wanting to push the rules aside in an effort to "let them race", but that is another matter altogether.)

F1 has nearly always been like this so why now the need to devalue the WDC?

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2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

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2018: 7th place

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:15 am 
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pokerman wrote:
F1 has nearly always been like this so why now the need to devalue the WDC?

Personally, I think a healty devaluation of the WDC is overdue. The WDC is almost all about the car, and yet because of the way it's presented we have a majority of fans who consider F1 to be a drivers' championship first and foremost rather than an engineers' championship.

At the best of times, the WDC is just the best driver in one of two to three (two at present) top teams.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:39 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Ricciardo, Leclerc & Magnusson get my votes

Ricciardo but not Verstappen, are you serious?


Yes.

In matters of Driver of the Day........... i'm always serious.

Hard to take you seriously then.

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Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:16 am 
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Covalent wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Ricciardo, Leclerc & Magnusson get my votes

Ricciardo but not Verstappen, are you serious?


Yes.

In matters of Driver of the Day........... i'm always serious.

Hard to take you seriously then.


Why?

On the first corner, he suffered, to quote CH " .........quite a bit of damage to the front wing. He lost about 30 points of downforce and put a lot of understeer into the car".

https://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsport/formula-one/f1-daniel-ricciardo-broke-his-front-wing-on-the-opening-lap-of-the-russian-grand-prix/news-story/3040f8e1f1c5f2a6d985206725d710c9

When he finally pitted on lap 40, he was approximately 33 sec behind Verstappen, meaning he'd lost roughly 0.8 sec per lap. Verstappen was leading, thanks to Hamilton, Vettel & Bottas pitting, Ricciardo was in 6th.

On lap 20, Ricciardo was already 20 sec behind Verstappen, meaning he lost a majority of the 33 sec defecite negotiating his way through the pack with a damaged front wing, causing loss of downforce, making it even more difficult to follow and pass than it already is, understeer and, stress on his front tyres.

Considering the above, yes, I believe Ricciardo's drive in Russia was an excellent drive on par with or even better than Verstappens.

I may be in the minority, and it'll probably be labelled as fanboyism but I don't really care. If I felt Verstappen outdrove Ricciardo i'm happy to say so. I've said so in the past and likewise with Vettel & Webber. I simply think most people may have been swept up in the hype of Verstappen's drive and missed what could have been a better drive.

At the end of the day, the RB's finished 5th & 6th, which is really where they'd be expected to finish anyway such is the difference between the top 3 and the rest.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:19 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 has nearly always been like this so why now the need to devalue the WDC?

Personally, I think a healty devaluation of the WDC is overdue. The WDC is almost all about the car, and yet because of the way it's presented we have a majority of fans who consider F1 to be a drivers' championship first and foremost rather than an engineers' championship.

At the best of times, the WDC is just the best driver in one of two to three (two at present) top teams.


The best drivers usually occupy the best cars, I don't believe there is any need to devalue the WDC.
Of course, making the right choices as a driver throughout your career is also a skill which a few of the better drivers have failed in.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:24 pm 
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Laz_T800 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 has nearly always been like this so why now the need to devalue the WDC?

Personally, I think a healty devaluation of the WDC is overdue. The WDC is almost all about the car, and yet because of the way it's presented we have a majority of fans who consider F1 to be a drivers' championship first and foremost rather than an engineers' championship.

At the best of times, the WDC is just the best driver in one of two to three (two at present) top teams.


The best drivers usually occupy the best cars, I don't believe there is any need to devalue the WDC.
Of course, making the right choices as a driver throughout your career is also a skill which a few of the better drivers have failed in.
Remember when we discussed the team principals' choices of best driver a few seasons ago? They too seemed mostly to vote for whoever happened to have had the best car and ended up as WDC. To my mind, that devalues the title right there. Despite there being something of a consensus that Alonso is the "best" (yes, definition needed!), I don't recall any time when he came up as best driver in the end of season Autosport polls. And that is remarkable.

Laz points to making the right choices as a driver, but the fact that only 2 or 3 top cars are available (not 4 or 6 as some might hope with 2-car teams), and driver contracts usually are multi-year affairs, means that it is almost as much of a lottery as a skill. Again, Alonso is the best example.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:35 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Laz_T800 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 has nearly always been like this so why now the need to devalue the WDC?

Personally, I think a healty devaluation of the WDC is overdue. The WDC is almost all about the car, and yet because of the way it's presented we have a majority of fans who consider F1 to be a drivers' championship first and foremost rather than an engineers' championship.

At the best of times, the WDC is just the best driver in one of two to three (two at present) top teams.


The best drivers usually occupy the best cars, I don't believe there is any need to devalue the WDC.
Of course, making the right choices as a driver throughout your career is also a skill which a few of the better drivers have failed in.
Remember when we discussed the team principals' choices of best driver a few seasons ago? They too seemed mostly to vote for whoever happened to have had the best car and ended up as WDC. To my mind, that devalues the title right there. Despite there being something of a consensus that Alonso is the "best" (yes, definition needed!), I don't recall any time when he came up as best driver in the end of season Autosport polls. And that is remarkable.

Laz points to making the right choices as a driver, but the fact that only 2 or 3 top cars are available (not 4 or 6 as some might hope with 2-car teams), and driver contracts usually are multi-year affairs, means that it is almost as much of a lottery as a skill. Again, Alonso is the best example.

I can help you with that. There actually is no consensus that Alonso is the best. That's just one opinion (clearly yours). It's also kind of amusing to see that Hamilton winning a 5th title has launched you into a mission to "devalue" the WDC lol. Good luck with that.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:49 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Laz_T800 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 has nearly always been like this so why now the need to devalue the WDC?

Personally, I think a healty devaluation of the WDC is overdue. The WDC is almost all about the car, and yet because of the way it's presented we have a majority of fans who consider F1 to be a drivers' championship first and foremost rather than an engineers' championship.

At the best of times, the WDC is just the best driver in one of two to three (two at present) top teams.


The best drivers usually occupy the best cars, I don't believe there is any need to devalue the WDC.
Of course, making the right choices as a driver throughout your career is also a skill which a few of the better drivers have failed in.
Remember when we discussed the team principals' choices of best driver a few seasons ago? They too seemed mostly to vote for whoever happened to have had the best car and ended up as WDC. To my mind, that devalues the title right there. Despite there being something of a consensus that Alonso is the "best" (yes, definition needed!), I don't recall any time when he came up as best driver in the end of season Autosport polls. And that is remarkable.

Laz points to making the right choices as a driver, but the fact that only 2 or 3 top cars are available (not 4 or 6 as some might hope with 2-car teams), and driver contracts usually are multi-year affairs, means that it is almost as much of a lottery as a skill. Again, Alonso is the best example.

I can help you with that. There actually is no consensus that Alonso is the best. That's just one opinion (clearly yours). It's also kind of amusing to see that Hamilton winning a 5th title has launched you into a mission to "devalue" the WDC lol. Good luck with that.

to be fair this is not a recent change of opinion that Fiki has "discovered" and he has voiced similar concerns on multiple occasions in the past. I don't think Hamilton's situation has any bearing on that view. And I also think a good number of people feel that Alonso is the best and it's not a solitary opinion. It's always something of a discussion point of course but not exactly radical


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:51 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Remember when we discussed the team principals' choices of best driver a few seasons ago? They too seemed mostly to vote for whoever happened to have had the best car and ended up as WDC. To my mind, that devalues the title right there. Despite there being something of a consensus that Alonso is the "best" (yes, definition needed!), I don't recall any time when he came up as best driver in the end of season Autosport polls. And that is remarkable.

Laz points to making the right choices as a driver, but the fact that only 2 or 3 top cars are available (not 4 or 6 as some might hope with 2-car teams), and driver contracts usually are multi-year affairs, means that it is almost as much of a lottery as a skill. Again, Alonso is the best example.

I can help you with that. There actually is no consensus that Alonso is the best. That's just one opinion (clearly yours). It's also kind of amusing to see that Hamilton winning a 5th title has launched you into a mission to "devalue" the WDC lol. Good luck with that.
You really should be more careful with the sand you sprinkle around you, sandman, it seems to have ended up in your own eyes. It's fine if you've never picked up that Alonso is seen by many as the best, but it's nothing I've invented. Hence why it struck me.

As for Hamilton, again you are wrong. I have no wish whatsoever to devalue Hamilton's fifth title. Rather, I see the title for what it is. Which, in my eyes, is not synonymous with best driver. Which, perhaps, makes me more sensitive to polls looking for the best. Whatever best may be or mean.

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Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi


Last edited by Fiki on Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 3:15 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Remember when we discussed the team principals' choices of best driver a few seasons ago? They too seemed mostly to vote for whoever happened to have had the best car and ended up as WDC. To my mind, that devalues the title right there. Despite there being something of a consensus that Alonso is the "best" (yes, definition needed!), I don't recall any time when he came up as best driver in the end of season Autosport polls. And that is remarkable.

Laz points to making the right choices as a driver, but the fact that only 2 or 3 top cars are available (not 4 or 6 as some might hope with 2-car teams), and driver contracts usually are multi-year affairs, means that it is almost as much of a lottery as a skill. Again, Alonso is the best example.

I can help you with that. There actually is no consensus that Alonso is the best. That's just one opinion (clearly yours). It's also kind of amusing to see that Hamilton winning a 5th title has launched you into a mission to "devalue" the WDC lol. Good luck with that.
Your really should be more careful with the sand you sprinkle around you, sandman, it seems to have ended up in your own eyes. It's fine if you've never picked up that Alonso is seen by many as the best, but it's nothing I've invented. Hence why it struck me.

As for Hamilton, again you are wrong. I have no wish whatsoever to devalue Hamilton's fifth title. Rather, I see the title for what it is. Which, in my eyes, is not synonymous with best driver. Which, perhaps, makes me more sensitive to polls looking for the best. Whatever best may be or mean.

Oh there are certainly people who see Alonso as the best. I agree with that completely. Your statement, however, was that the consensus is that he is the best. That is false. You'r own complaints about Hamilton winning fan polls and team principal polls confirm that.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:03 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Remember when we discussed the team principals' choices of best driver a few seasons ago? They too seemed mostly to vote for whoever happened to have had the best car and ended up as WDC. To my mind, that devalues the title right there. Despite there being something of a consensus that Alonso is the "best" (yes, definition needed!), I don't recall any time when he came up as best driver in the end of season Autosport polls. And that is remarkable.

Laz points to making the right choices as a driver, but the fact that only 2 or 3 top cars are available (not 4 or 6 as some might hope with 2-car teams), and driver contracts usually are multi-year affairs, means that it is almost as much of a lottery as a skill. Again, Alonso is the best example.

I can help you with that. There actually is no consensus that Alonso is the best. That's just one opinion (clearly yours). It's also kind of amusing to see that Hamilton winning a 5th title has launched you into a mission to "devalue" the WDC lol. Good luck with that.
Your really should be more careful with the sand you sprinkle around you, sandman, it seems to have ended up in your own eyes. It's fine if you've never picked up that Alonso is seen by many as the best, but it's nothing I've invented. Hence why it struck me.

As for Hamilton, again you are wrong. I have no wish whatsoever to devalue Hamilton's fifth title. Rather, I see the title for what it is. Which, in my eyes, is not synonymous with best driver. Which, perhaps, makes me more sensitive to polls looking for the best. Whatever best may be or mean.

Oh there are certainly people who see Alonso as the best. I agree with that completely. Your statement, however, was that the consensus is that he is the best. That is false. You'r own complaints about Hamilton winning fan polls and team principal polls confirm that.
No, you misread. I wrote that there was something of a concensus, and the nuance is important.

Complaints about Hamilton winning polls? I really must choose my words better in future then. People vote for whoever they want, whether Fiki understands or not.

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Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:15 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
Remember when we discussed the team principals' choices of best driver a few seasons ago? They too seemed mostly to vote for whoever happened to have had the best car and ended up as WDC. To my mind, that devalues the title right there. Despite there being something of a consensus that Alonso is the "best" (yes, definition needed!), I don't recall any time when he came up as best driver in the end of season Autosport polls. And that is remarkable.

Laz points to making the right choices as a driver, but the fact that only 2 or 3 top cars are available (not 4 or 6 as some might hope with 2-car teams), and driver contracts usually are multi-year affairs, means that it is almost as much of a lottery as a skill. Again, Alonso is the best example.

I can help you with that. There actually is no consensus that Alonso is the best. That's just one opinion (clearly yours). It's also kind of amusing to see that Hamilton winning a 5th title has launched you into a mission to "devalue" the WDC lol. Good luck with that.
Your really should be more careful with the sand you sprinkle around you, sandman, it seems to have ended up in your own eyes. It's fine if you've never picked up that Alonso is seen by many as the best, but it's nothing I've invented. Hence why it struck me.

As for Hamilton, again you are wrong. I have no wish whatsoever to devalue Hamilton's fifth title. Rather, I see the title for what it is. Which, in my eyes, is not synonymous with best driver. Which, perhaps, makes me more sensitive to polls looking for the best. Whatever best may be or mean.

Oh there are certainly people who see Alonso as the best. I agree with that completely. Your statement, however, was that the consensus is that he is the best. That is false. You'r own complaints about Hamilton winning fan polls and team principal polls confirm that.
No, you misread. I wrote that there was something of a concensus, and the nuance is important.

Complaints about Hamilton winning polls? I really must choose my words better in future then. People vote for whoever they want, whether Fiki understands or not.

There is nothing of the sort though. "Something of a consensus" would suggest that the majority of people see Alonso as the best driver. That simply isn't true.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:43 pm 
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Tbh most casual fans, especially younger ones likely dont even know who Alonso is as he has been a non factor for so long due to his equipment. So no, I cant agree that most fans think hes the best. As far as most hard core fans, I must say they tend to go with the guy who is winning at the moment. And that is not Alonso. Me personally; I dont know. It’s highly subjective and unless he’s driving a similar car as the guy at the front I will never know for sure. Which is why I so wanted to see him in a competitive car.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:57 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Fiki wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I can help you with that. There actually is no consensus that Alonso is the best. That's just one opinion (clearly yours). It's also kind of amusing to see that Hamilton winning a 5th title has launched you into a mission to "devalue" the WDC lol. Good luck with that.
Your really should be more careful with the sand you sprinkle around you, sandman, it seems to have ended up in your own eyes. It's fine if you've never picked up that Alonso is seen by many as the best, but it's nothing I've invented. Hence why it struck me.

As for Hamilton, again you are wrong. I have no wish whatsoever to devalue Hamilton's fifth title. Rather, I see the title for what it is. Which, in my eyes, is not synonymous with best driver. Which, perhaps, makes me more sensitive to polls looking for the best. Whatever best may be or mean.

Oh there are certainly people who see Alonso as the best. I agree with that completely. Your statement, however, was that the consensus is that he is the best. That is false. You'r own complaints about Hamilton winning fan polls and team principal polls confirm that.
No, you misread. I wrote that there was something of a concensus, and the nuance is important.

Complaints about Hamilton winning polls? I really must choose my words better in future then. People vote for whoever they want, whether Fiki understands or not.

There is nothing of the sort though. "Something of a consensus" would suggest that the majority of people see Alonso as the best driver. That simply isn't true.
Fine!

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