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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:08 pm 
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When I saw this headline, I was rather surprised, it seems to be just new Philip Morris stickers though.

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13911 ... rom-suzuka


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:40 pm 
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Just? I seem to recall tobacco advertising is banned. I'm even more surprised the article speaks of "title sponsor", yet on the F1.com page I don't see any such title.

Only recently, I was reminded about their subliminal advertising, when I noticed what is now on the drivers' gloves and overalls. This certainly is worth following closely!

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:26 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Just? I seem to recall tobacco advertising is banned. I'm even more surprised the article speaks of "title sponsor", yet on the F1.com page I don't see any such title.

Only recently, I was reminded about their subliminal advertising, when I noticed what is now on the drivers' gloves and overalls. This certainly is worth following closely!

They pay the price for title sponsorship, but due to the tobacco advertising ban they can't put the logos on the car or the name with the team name. The amount their sponsorship is talked about and the corporate hospitality that comes with it keeps it worth it for them from what I can tell...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 2:40 am 
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Here's what it will be:

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Source - https://www.motorsportweek.com//admin/c ... AEYsOO.jpg

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:05 am 
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Dare I to ask what Mission Winnow is? It sounds kind of threatening, depending on who or what is getting winnowed...

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:01 am 
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https://business.financialpost.com/pmn/ ... artnership


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:41 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
At least the arrow points to their best driver! 8)

Still very surprised about advertising for smoking. And perhaps even more about the fact they never stopped as title sponsor.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:19 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Dare I to ask what Mission Winnow is? It sounds kind of threatening, depending on who or what is getting winnowed...

I'd suggest it's a means by which to put two 'M's on the car.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:27 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Dare I to ask what Mission Winnow is? It sounds kind of threatening, depending on who or what is getting winnowed...

Quote:
a new global initiative to create engagement around the role of science, technology and innovation as a powerful force for good in any industry. The global initiative takes to the tracks this week at the Formula 1 2018 Honda Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:20 pm 
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A new global initiative to create engagement around the role of science, technology and innovation as a powerful force for good in any industry. The global initiative takes to the tracks this week at the Formula 1 2018 Honda Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka.

So in other words, it's empty marketing gobbledygook designed to give Marlboro a legal screen to put their advertising on the car?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:49 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Quote:
A new global initiative to create engagement around the role of science, technology and innovation as a powerful force for good in any industry. The global initiative takes to the tracks this week at the Formula 1 2018 Honda Japanese Grand Prix at Suzuka.

So in other words, it's empty marketing gobbledygook designed to give Marlboro a legal screen to put their advertising on the car?

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:27 am 
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Not the first time, won't be the last. I miss the old tobacco liveries though...

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:56 am 
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Strange, I may remember this incorrectly, but the last time I asked whether the logo Ferrari and Ducati were displaying, was in reality subliminal advertising, I thought the feeling was that I was seeing ghosts.
Now I wouldn't be surprised if the disappearance of the logo was really preparation for this. Vaping is hardly new, after all.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:35 pm 
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“Through Mission Winnow we want to let the world know how we have changed, to share our pride in the transformation that the people of PMI have achieved, as well as our dedication to rigorous science and innovation that can lead to a better future,” says André Calantzopoulos, chief executive of Philip Morris International.

Yeah right. When Philip Morris ceases promoting its cigarettes to young people in developing countries I might sit up and listen to Mr Calantzopoulos's fine words.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:24 pm 
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The Mission Winnow website looks like a tobacco version of Scientology.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:25 pm 
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It has nothing to do with advertising Marlboro. It's simply a coincidence that the big logo on the engine cover is a big red and white arrow made up of a mirrored M and the 'Mission Winnow' logo on the drivers overall contains six arrows.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:27 pm 
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Underviewer wrote:
It has nothing to do with advertising Marlboro. It's simply a coincidence that the big logo on the engine cover is a big red and white arrow made up of a mirrored M and the 'Mission Winnow' logo on the drivers overall contains six arrows.

Repeat ad nauseum in a monotonous chant ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:29 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
The Mission Winnow website looks like a tobacco version of Scientology.

:lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:30 pm 
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Ok, I'll be honest, I do not see it. When I look at the logo it does not remind me of Marlborough at all. What am I missing?


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:39 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
Ok, I'll be honest, I do not see it. When I look at the logo it does not remind me of Marlborough at all. What am I missing?
The message? ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:51 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Ok, I'll be honest, I do not see it. When I look at the logo it does not remind me of Marlborough at all. What am I missing?
The message? ;)

Haha, well thank you!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2018 6:25 pm 
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They've got an arrow in it pointing to the bit that looks like the top of the Marlboro packet....

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:06 am 
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What were Ferrari smoking when they came up with today's qualifying strategy?! Oh wait...


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:30 am 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
They've got an arrow in it pointing to the bit that looks like the top of the Marlboro packet....


I just don't see it! Anyway, I am not a smoker so I don't even know when was the last time I saw a Marlborough pack.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:45 am 
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Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic!!!

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:03 pm 
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The new livery looks so odd to me with all that white littered everywhere.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:34 pm 
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For the dyslexic, the logo could be read Mission Minnow. Which could be appropriate, but I digress.

If I had any interest in it, I would Google search to find out what "Mission Winnow" meant. But I don't. My dad smoked 5 packs of unfiltered cancer sticks a day before quitting. He died 30 years later from a latent cancer... caused by smoking. Since the early 1980s, I've given my financial advisor specific instructions not to purchase any investment in tobacco companies. I sleep better.

At the time when OVERT tobacco liveries were banned (season end 2006), some thought it could spell the end of F1. But just like Big Tobacco's insidious need to lace it's products with hundreds of addictive/harmful chemicals. the cancer stick companies have maintained a surrepticious presence... now with stealthy advertising. Oh well.

Time for the EU to ban the product from any involvement whatsoever. Like that will happen. x(

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:58 pm 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Time for the EU to ban the product from any involvement whatsoever. Like that will happen. x(

Unpopular opinion, but everyone - not just the EU - should ban them outright, not just the advertising. They're a menace to society, and contribute absolutely nothing but money in the pockets of certain corporations.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:12 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Time for the EU to ban the product from any involvement whatsoever. Like that will happen. x(

Unpopular opinion, but everyone - not just the EU - should ban them outright, not just the advertising. They're a menace to society, and contribute absolutely nothing but money in the pockets of certain corporations.

Equally unpopular opinion I imagine but I think it's important people have the freedom to kill themselves slowly over time if they wish. I have no particular love for cigarettes themselves but the idea of them being banned outright doesn't quite feel right to me. Anyway this is sort of off topic, or least Ferrari would like us to think so ;)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:12 am 
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Exediron wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Time for the EU to ban the product from any involvement whatsoever. Like that will happen. x(

Unpopular opinion, but everyone - not just the EU - should ban them outright, not just the advertising. They're a menace to society, and contribute absolutely nothing but money in the pockets of certain corporations.
To be clear, I meant cancer sticks should be banned from INVOLVEMENT in motorsport, not necessarily from society in general.

Today, the anti-smoking movement has been very successful in the US, since Philip Morris now makes about 75% of its revenues outside the US, mostly Asia (China, Russia) and Europe. So it's now more your problem than America's... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... 9b1c5e830e

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:22 am 
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MB-BOB wrote:
Exediron wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Time for the EU to ban the product from any involvement whatsoever. Like that will happen. x(

Unpopular opinion, but everyone - not just the EU - should ban them outright, not just the advertising. They're a menace to society, and contribute absolutely nothing but money in the pockets of certain corporations.

To be clear, I meant cancer sticks should be banned from INVOLVEMENT in motorsport, not necessarily from society in general.

Today, the anti-smoking movement has been very successful in the US, since Philip Morris now makes about 75% of its revenues outside the US, mostly Asia (China, Russia) and Europe. So it's now more your problem than America's... https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... 9b1c5e830e

My problem is America's problem. I live in Michigan. ;)

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:45 am 
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I am with Saio7... I just don't see it. What is next, banning tbe use of red and white colors?

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:02 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Time for the EU to ban the product from any involvement whatsoever. Like that will happen. x(

Unpopular opinion, but everyone - not just the EU - should ban them outright, not just the advertising. They're a menace to society, and contribute absolutely nothing but money in the pockets of certain corporations.

Equally unpopular opinion I imagine but I think it's important people have the freedom to kill themselves slowly over time if they wish. I have no particular love for cigarettes themselves but the idea of them being banned outright doesn't quite feel right to me. Anyway this is sort of off topic, or least Ferrari would like us to think so ;)

It's a political can of worms but one of the issues with smoking is that it's virtually impossible for it not to affect other people, too. One might argue that a drunk will affect others, but that's more from a nuisance rather than health point of view, whereas unless a smoker wears a bubble helmet the smoke also has the potential to slowly kill everyone they are in contact with, too. So while I agree with the principle that people should be allowed to kill themselves slowly if they are that way inclined, I'm against the method in this instance because they're not just doing it to themselves


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:00 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Time for the EU to ban the product from any involvement whatsoever. Like that will happen. x(

Unpopular opinion, but everyone - not just the EU - should ban them outright, not just the advertising. They're a menace to society, and contribute absolutely nothing but money in the pockets of certain corporations.

Equally unpopular opinion I imagine but I think it's important people have the freedom to kill themselves slowly over time if they wish. I have no particular love for cigarettes themselves but the idea of them being banned outright doesn't quite feel right to me. Anyway this is sort of off topic, or least Ferrari would like us to think so ;)

It's a political can of worms but one of the issues with smoking is that it's virtually impossible for it not to affect other people, too. One might argue that a drunk will affect others, but that's more from a nuisance rather than health point of view, whereas unless a smoker wears a bubble helmet the smoke also has the potential to slowly kill everyone they are in contact with, too. So while I agree with the principle that people should be allowed to kill themselves slowly if they are that way inclined, I'm against the method in this instance because they're not just doing it to themselves

Until you see the number deaths by DUI every year... These are in the thousands.

I remember that it was whispered at the time the reason that the smoking ban started in the UK wasn't because they were concerned with people's health: it was because of the amount of money it cost the NHS to treat them. So it hasn't got to do with morals, the government didn't suddenly grow a consciousness, just down to money issues. The fact that they stop smokers harming others (and our noses!) is an added bonus. Not sure I agree with this entirely, but it makes sense. Can of worms indeed!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:22 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Time for the EU to ban the product from any involvement whatsoever. Like that will happen. x(

Unpopular opinion, but everyone - not just the EU - should ban them outright, not just the advertising. They're a menace to society, and contribute absolutely nothing but money in the pockets of certain corporations.

Equally unpopular opinion I imagine but I think it's important people have the freedom to kill themselves slowly over time if they wish. I have no particular love for cigarettes themselves but the idea of them being banned outright doesn't quite feel right to me. Anyway this is sort of off topic, or least Ferrari would like us to think so ;)

It's a political can of worms but one of the issues with smoking is that it's virtually impossible for it not to affect other people, too. One might argue that a drunk will affect others, but that's more from a nuisance rather than health point of view, whereas unless a smoker wears a bubble helmet the smoke also has the potential to slowly kill everyone they are in contact with, too. So while I agree with the principle that people should be allowed to kill themselves slowly if they are that way inclined, I'm against the method in this instance because they're not just doing it to themselves


If you look at smoke related deaths or illnesses/ injuries, at a guess i'd wager most tobacco related deaths and diseases affect the smoker alone. Not all, but an overwhelming majority. A small minority affect non-smokers.

If you consider alcohol related deaths, illnesses or injuries, a fair percentage would be of those who were not the actual consumer.

Consider road deaths due to DUI's, domestic violence instances, public brawls, some resulting in death, alcohol related deaths by drownings and other misadventure. This would indicate to me that alcohol could reasonably be considered a more socially insidious product when it comes to deaths than ciggies and a bigger burdon on the public purse as well.

The only reason they won't ban tobacco is the same reason why prohibition didn't work in the States in the early 1900's. It's all to do with money and black market tobacco. Governments are just as addicted to darbs & grog sadly as much as some of the general population are.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:43 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Time for the EU to ban the product from any involvement whatsoever. Like that will happen. x(

Unpopular opinion, but everyone - not just the EU - should ban them outright, not just the advertising. They're a menace to society, and contribute absolutely nothing but money in the pockets of certain corporations.

Equally unpopular opinion I imagine but I think it's important people have the freedom to kill themselves slowly over time if they wish. I have no particular love for cigarettes themselves but the idea of them being banned outright doesn't quite feel right to me. Anyway this is sort of off topic, or least Ferrari would like us to think so ;)

It's a political can of worms but one of the issues with smoking is that it's virtually impossible for it not to affect other people, too. One might argue that a drunk will affect others, but that's more from a nuisance rather than health point of view, whereas unless a smoker wears a bubble helmet the smoke also has the potential to slowly kill everyone they are in contact with, too. So while I agree with the principle that people should be allowed to kill themselves slowly if they are that way inclined, I'm against the method in this instance because they're not just doing it to themselves


If you look at smoke related deaths or illnesses/ injuries, at a guess i'd wager most tobacco related deaths and diseases affect the smoker alone. Not all, but an overwhelming majority. A small minority affect non-smokers.

If you consider alcohol related deaths, illnesses or injuries, a fair percentage would be of those who were not the actual consumer.

Consider road deaths due to DUI's, domestic violence instances, public brawls, some resulting in death, alcohol related deaths by drownings and other misadventure. This would indicate to me that alcohol could reasonably be considered a more socially insidious product when it comes to deaths than ciggies and a bigger burdon on the public purse as well.

The only reason they won't ban tobacco is the same reason why prohibition didn't work in the States in the early 1900's. It's all to do with money and black market tobacco. Governments are just as addicted to darbs & grog sadly as much as some of the general population are.

The World Health Organisation has this to say about secondary smoking:

Globally, more than a third of all people are regularly exposed to the harmful effects of smoke. This exposure is responsible for about 600,000 deaths per year, and about 1% of the global burden of disease worldwide. This risk factor is prevalent in practically every region of the world.

Generally, it's harder to quantify the impact of "secondary drinking," if that's even the right term, but the only point I was trying to make was that it's possible to have a drink, even in company, and not affect anyone else in the slightest, whereas that is much harder to do when smoking. The incidents you mentioned above are down to the individual abusing the product, rather than issues with drinking anything at all. But I do agree that drunken behavior of any sort is unpleasant and often dangerous.

But smoking gets in your clothes, your eyes etc and in some cases can make it hard to breathe, and I'm talking about the passive smoker. When I was younger I used to hate some plane journeys as for some inexplicable reason smoke never respected the non-smoking delineation and breathing in everybody else's fumes with nowhere to escape to was a deeply unpleasant experience. I often found it quite difficult to simply breathe properly (I used to travel a lot). Same for the Underground and other enclosed spaces, while eating out in restaurants wasn't a lot of fun when you couldn't taste the food over other people's smoke. That level of invasiveness just isn't there with drinking, for example, which is why I'd be happier to see a smoking ban than a drinking one. There are other ways to tackle abusive behavior but something that affects the innocent regardless isn't something I feel should be allowed, broadly speaking


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:38 pm 
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I'm oddly in the middle on this one. I hate cigarettes but I love the liveries from the 90s and think we should all be free to decide our own actions. Tobacco ads normally influence brand choice more than whether someone smokes in the first place in my experience, so let them plow their money into sponsorships, lets have a lot more money for the little teams, and that will even up the field a fair bit I reckon.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:09 pm 
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P-F1 Mod wrote:
I'm oddly in the middle on this one. I hate cigarettes but I love the liveries from the 90s and think we should all be free to decide our own actions. Tobacco ads normally influence brand choice more than whether someone smokes in the first place in my experience, so let them plow their money into sponsorships, lets have a lot more money for the little teams, and that will even up the field a fair bit I reckon.

The biggest oddity is that tobacco advertisement is banned, but alcohol advertisement is ok.

I find it ironic


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:21 pm 
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Blake wrote:
I am with Saio7... I just don't see it. What is next, banning tbe use of red and white colors?


Obviously not.

Image

Edit: The word logo is also full of the chevrons too, it's not even subtle.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:59 pm 
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Ah, thanks Flash. I think it is a ridiculous claim, but if you have to tilt your head and pretend it is a cigarette pack, then it looks like it.

Just like under certain low lighting and from a certain angle, Pamela Anderson looks like she's 25!


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