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Which records will Hamilton break?
Poll ended at Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:54 pm
World Titles 10%  10%  [ 14 ]
Race Wins 16%  16%  [ 22 ]
Fastest Laps 4%  4%  [ 6 ]
Podiums 17%  17%  [ 24 ]
Laps Led 7%  7%  [ 10 ]
KMs Led 6%  6%  [ 9 ]
Hat Tricks 4%  4%  [ 5 ]
Wins/Podiums in Consecutive Years 10%  10%  [ 14 ]
Wins at an Individual Grand Prix/Circuit 11%  11%  [ 16 ]
Consecutive Podiums 4%  4%  [ 5 ]
Consecutive Wins 4%  4%  [ 6 ]
Consecutive Poles 4%  4%  [ 5 ]
Grand Slams 4%  4%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 141
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 9:57 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Michael is on 91 wins. Lewis is on 71 as of Japan in 2018.

In the years with Mercedes Lewis has won:
2014 - 11 wins.
2015 - 10 wins.
2015 - 10 wins.
2016 - 10 wins.
2017 - 9 wins.
2018 -9 wins with 2 races to go.

...even at the rate of 9 wins per season Lewis should reach and pass 91 early in 2021.

That's assuming Mercedes is still good for 9 wins per season. Nine wins is a lot of wins, and it's only been possibly because between 2014 and present Lewis has only faced one real race winning competitor at a time. If Ferrari continues to be as strong as they are now and Red Bull takes a step forward, there's very little chance Lewis will get 9 wins next year.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:36 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Michael is on 91 wins. Lewis is on 71 as of Japan in 2018.

In the years with Mercedes Lewis has won:
2014 - 11 wins.
2015 - 10 wins.
2015 - 10 wins.
2016 - 10 wins.
2017 - 9 wins.
2018 -9 wins with 2 races to go.

...even at the rate of 9 wins per season Lewis should reach and pass 91 early in 2021.

That's assuming Mercedes is still good for 9 wins per season. Nine wins is a lot of wins, and it's only been possibly because between 2014 and present Lewis has only faced one real race winning competitor at a time. If Ferrari continues to be as strong as they are now and Red Bull takes a step forward, there's very little chance Lewis will get 9 wins next year.

Since (including) 1988, the mean number of wins by the highest race winner in the seasons has ben 46.12%. If Hamilton matches that average, he will win 19 races over the next 2 years.

The mean is actually more affected by some low performance years (1999,2010,2012) than the high performance years, as the median rate is slightly higher at 47.62% - if Hamilton matches or exceeds the median percentage, he'll win exactly 20 races, and match Schumacher.

If Hamilton has the most race wins of any driver in both of the next two seasons, he is statistically likely to get to at least 90 race wins.

Code:
Year   Races   Most Wins   By         Percentage
2018   18       9         Hamilton     50
2017   20       9         Hamilton     45
2016   21      10         Hamilton     47.61904762
2015   19      10         Hamilton     52.63157895
2014   19      10         Hamilton     52.63157895
2013   19      13         Vettel       68.42105263
2012   20       5         Vettel       25
2011   19      11         Vettel       57.89473684
2010   19       5         Vettel       26.31578947
2009   17       6         Button       35.29411765
2008   18       6         Massa        33.33333333
2007   17       6         Raikkonen    35.29411765
2006   18       7         Alonso       38.88888889
2005   19       7         Raikkonen    36.84210526
2004   18      13         Schumacher   72.22222222
2003   16       6         Schumacher   37.5
2002   17      11         Schumacher   64.70588235
2001   17       9         Schumacher   52.94117647
2000   17       9         Schumacher   52.94117647
1999   16       5         Hakkinen     31.25
1998   16       8         Hakkinen     50
1997   17       7         Villeneuve   41.17647059
1996   16       8         Hill         50
1995   17       9         Schumacher   52.94117647
1994   16       8         Schumacher   50
1993   16       7         Prost        43.75
1992   16       9         Mansell      56.25
1991   16       7         Senna        43.75
1990   16       6         Senna        37.5
1989   16       6         Senna        37.5
1988   16       8         Senna        50


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:25 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Michael is on 91 wins. Lewis is on 71 as of Japan in 2018.

In the years with Mercedes Lewis has won:
2014 - 11 wins.
2015 - 10 wins.
2015 - 10 wins.
2016 - 10 wins.
2017 - 9 wins.
2018 -9 wins with 2 races to go.

...even at the rate of 9 wins per season Lewis should reach and pass 91 early in 2021.

That's assuming Mercedes is still good for 9 wins per season. Nine wins is a lot of wins, and it's only been possibly because between 2014 and present Lewis has only faced one real race winning competitor at a time. If Ferrari continues to be as strong as they are now and Red Bull takes a step forward, there's very little chance Lewis will get 9 wins next year.


As strong as Ferrari is now Hamilton still got his 9 wins this season with a chance for a possible two more. He may have more of a challenge next year but I don't see a reason for a precipitous decline in his annual total of wins in the next two years. There are possibilities out there but nothing that even looks likely to me.

If Mercedes gets the official OK for their tire cooling rear rims and can go back to using them, they will likely solve their current tire eating problems & we could very well be back to another string of Hamilton wins like Monza through Suzuka this year.

Ferrari have threatened to protest the rims if the cooling ducts are used and Merc evidently doesn't want to chance the loss of constructors points. The ventilation feature has reportedly been blocked the last two races even though the stewards of the meet declared the rims legal.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:05 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Something tells me that Lewis will equal but not beat Schumacher's total of 7 drivers championships. If he wins in 2019 and 2020 that will put him at seven and tied with Michael. At that point his contract with Merc is up. He has talked (and there is much speculation about) going to Ferrari to finish his career. He could also retire or start a long downhill fade as the new regulations take effect and there is a possible re-ordering of formula 1 teams supremacy.

I do think he will beat Michael's total of 91 wins.


If Hamilton gets to 7 Championships he will probably do anything necessary to give himself the best chance of getting 8, so will want to have the best car - whatever team that is. Not only would he want to have the most World Championships (perhaps ever?), but he has a serious chip on his shoulder about Rosberg, so he would not want to think for the rest of his life that Rosberg stopped him winning 8 (or 7).


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:55 pm 
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babararacucudada wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Something tells me that Lewis will equal but not beat Schumacher's total of 7 drivers championships. If he wins in 2019 and 2020 that will put him at seven and tied with Michael. At that point his contract with Merc is up. He has talked (and there is much speculation about) going to Ferrari to finish his career. He could also retire or start a long downhill fade as the new regulations take effect and there is a possible re-ordering of formula 1 teams supremacy.

I do think he will beat Michael's total of 91 wins.


If Hamilton gets to 7 Championships he will probably do anything necessary to give himself the best chance of getting 8, so will want to have the best car - whatever team that is. Not only would he want to have the most World Championships (perhaps ever?), but he has a serious chip on his shoulder about Rosberg, so he would not want to think for the rest of his life that Rosberg stopped him winning 8 (or 7).

Thanks to Rosberg winning in 2016 he doesn't have 6 now. Or maybe thanks to Rosberg winning in 2016 he doesn't only have 4 now.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2018 1:42 am 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
babararacucudada wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Something tells me that Lewis will equal but not beat Schumacher's total of 7 drivers championships. If he wins in 2019 and 2020 that will put him at seven and tied with Michael. At that point his contract with Merc is up. He has talked (and there is much speculation about) going to Ferrari to finish his career. He could also retire or start a long downhill fade as the new regulations take effect and there is a possible re-ordering of formula 1 teams supremacy.

I do think he will beat Michael's total of 91 wins.


If Hamilton gets to 7 Championships he will probably do anything necessary to give himself the best chance of getting 8, so will want to have the best car - whatever team that is. Not only would he want to have the most World Championships (perhaps ever?), but he has a serious chip on his shoulder about Rosberg, so he would not want to think for the rest of his life that Rosberg stopped him winning 8 (or 7).

Thanks to Rosberg winning in 2016 he doesn't have 6 now. Or maybe thanks to Rosberg winning in 2016 he doesn't only have 4 now.

Yeah I've posted similar in another thread.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:59 am 
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Cha-ching.
Ring up the totals again. 11-11-18
Lewis Hamilton
5 WDC Titles.
72 Wins.
228 Consecutive starts. (All time record)
41 Fastest Laps.
12 Consecutive seasosn with at least one win. (2nd all time behind MS)
82 Pole Positions. (All time record)
228 Podium Finishes. (2nd all time behind MS)
3,946 Laps lead. (2nd all time behind MS)
20,038 Km lead. (2nd all time behind MS)

That is all!!!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:18 pm 
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With 7 races in the books in 2019, I am predicting that Lewis will break the record of 13 wins in a single season now jointly held by Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Vettel. Lewis has five wins in seven races. Over a 21 race schedule that extrapolates out to a fifteen win season. We know that the second half of the season is when Lewis is the strongest, so that would only tend to increase the odds of his breaking the record.

As of Canada 2019 Lewis has 78 career wins and seems well on pace to break Shumi's record of 91 by the end of 2020.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:22 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
With 7 races in the books in 2019, I am predicting that Lewis will break the record of 13 wins in a single season now jointly held by Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Vettel. Lewis has five wins in seven races. Over a 21 race schedule that extrapolates out to a fifteen win season. We know that the second half of the season is when Lewis is the strongest, so that would only tend to increase the odds of his breaking the record.

As of Canada 2019 Lewis has 78 career wins and seems well on pace to break Shumi's record of 91 by the end of 2020.

I don't like to make such bold prediction regarding this season but in respect to the thread I think he definitely will break the record number of wins, record number of titles I always saw as the hardest one to break or equal though.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:31 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
With 7 races in the books in 2019, I am predicting that Lewis will break the record of 13 wins in a single season now jointly held by Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Vettel. Lewis has five wins in seven races. Over a 21 race schedule that extrapolates out to a fifteen win season. We know that the second half of the season is when Lewis is the strongest, so that would only tend to increase the odds of his breaking the record.

As of Canada 2019 Lewis has 78 career wins and seems well on pace to break Shumi's record of 91 by the end of 2020.

I don't like to make such bold prediction regarding this season but in respect to the thread I think he definitely will break the record number of wins, record number of titles I always saw as the hardest one to break or equal though.


I am guessing that Lewis will equal Michael's record of titles. IMO he is the favorite for this year and probably next year. As of 2021 things may change.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:09 pm 
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I think potentially all except fastest laps and consequently hat-tricks. It's never been something Lewis has considered important - even with the new point awarded.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:21 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
With 7 races in the books in 2019, I am predicting that Lewis will break the record of 13 wins in a single season now jointly held by Michael Schumacher and Sebastian Vettel. Lewis has five wins in seven races. Over a 21 race schedule that extrapolates out to a fifteen win season. We know that the second half of the season is when Lewis is the strongest, so that would only tend to increase the odds of his breaking the record.

As of Canada 2019 Lewis has 78 career wins and seems well on pace to break Shumi's record of 91 by the end of 2020.

It could well happen. I would be surprised if Ferrari haven't given up on this season already and are focusing on next year's car with a change of aero philosophy. That gives Mercedes no competition for the rest of the year.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:56 am 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
I think potentially all except fastest laps and consequently hat-tricks. It's never been something Lewis has considered important - even with the new point awarded.

Fastest laps are even harder to achieve now with cars a bit further back pitting to get fastest lap.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:20 am 
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Wins will now likely be down to Mercedes 2020 car and him being able to pick up 3-5 wins in it. Equaling Championships also is looking like how that car is. I would say he has a 60/40 chance to match championships by the end of 2020


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:29 am 
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Johnson wrote:
Wins will now likely be down to Mercedes 2020 car and him being able to pick up 3-5 wins in it. Equaling Championships also is looking like how that car is. I would say he has a 60/40 chance to match championships by the end of 2020


:thumbup: :nod:

I don't see any major shake up till 2021.

If Pirelli goes back to the thicker tread tires that Ferrari and Red Bull (among others) liked, then it might start to tip the balance back away from Merc, but anyone else is going to have to work very hard to build a better package than Merc currently has.

The only problem that remains for Lewis is that sometimes he gets a bit bored and unfocused. As long as he is in the zone, he will be hard to beat this year. Valtteri may take a few more races but I don't see him making a significant run at Lewis.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:25 pm 
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After Mexico 2019 Lewis has 83 victories. Needs 8 more to tie and 9 to break Schumacher's record of 91.

Lewis also has WDC #6 all but sewn up. At this point it's hard to bet against Lewis for WDC number seven at the end of 2020. After the regulations changes of 2021 number eight seems much less certain. Don't know if Lewis will have any enthusiasm for the chase that far in the future. Could easily go out on top.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:29 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
After Mexico 2019 Lewis has 83 victories. Needs 8 more to tie and 9 to break Schumacher's record of 91.

Lewis also has WDC #6 all but sewn up. At this point it's hard to bet against Lewis for WDC number seven at the end of 2020. After the regulations changes of 2021 number eight seems much less certain. Don't know if Lewis will have any enthusiasm for the chase that far in the future. Could easily go out on top.


He’ll have a tough time winning next season if Ferrari keep their current qualifying and engine advantage IMO.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:36 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
After Mexico 2019 Lewis has 83 victories. Needs 8 more to tie and 9 to break Schumacher's record of 91.

Lewis also has WDC #6 all but sewn up. At this point it's hard to bet against Lewis for WDC number seven at the end of 2020. After the regulations changes of 2021 number eight seems much less certain. Don't know if Lewis will have any enthusiasm for the chase that far in the future. Could easily go out on top.


He’ll have a tough time winning next season if Ferrari keep their current qualifying and engine advantage IMO.

I think that, if Ferrari keep their current driver lineup, Lewis will likely still win the championship with or without a car disadvantage. Ferrari are unable to optimize their strategic approach with Leclerc and Vettel and this is a common problem when you have two top-tier guys who are both competitive and ambitious. They spend the season stepping on each other's toes.

Might be moot anyway. I somehow get the feeling that a LOT of work has gone into the 2020 Mercedes already.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 1:44 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
After Mexico 2019 Lewis has 83 victories. Needs 8 more to tie and 9 to break Schumacher's record of 91.

Lewis also has WDC #6 all but sewn up. At this point it's hard to bet against Lewis for WDC number seven at the end of 2020. After the regulations changes of 2021 number eight seems much less certain. Don't know if Lewis will have any enthusiasm for the chase that far in the future. Could easily go out on top.


He’ll have a tough time winning next season if Ferrari keep their current qualifying and engine advantage IMO.

I think that, if Ferrari keep their current driver lineup, Lewis will likely still win the championship with or without a car disadvantage. Ferrari are unable to optimize their strategic approach with Leclerc and Vettel and this is a common problem when you have two top-tier guys who are both competitive and ambitious. They spend the season stepping on each other's toes.

Might be moot anyway. I somehow get the feeling that a LOT of work has gone into the 2020 Mercedes already.


Yeah you raise two good points, both of which are also possible.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 3:02 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
I think that, if Ferrari keep their current driver lineup, Lewis will likely still win the championship with or without a car disadvantage. Ferrari are unable to optimize their strategic approach with Leclerc and Vettel and this is a common problem when you have two top-tier guys who are both competitive and ambitious. They spend the season stepping on each other's toes.


Yes and no. It seems that the Ferrari strategy (who the strategists and decision makers are, and how good they are at it, is not the point...) is to get Vettel finishing in front of Leclerc, even if that allows them to lose a win (so to speak - see previous brackets), except when they have no choice.
A car advantage should allow them to lose less wins. With Leclerc on the worst strategy more often than not (which doesn't imply Vettel will be on a best one - see first brackets), he shouldn't be stepping on Vettel's toes (except for Vettel verstappening again).

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:08 pm 
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Yes to be fair, if they hadn't bailed on leclercs race again then there's no way Hamilton could have undercut and overtaken both Ferrari drivers


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:46 am 
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Hamilton set another record this season, most wins not starting from pole position within a season - 8.

10 wins and 8 are not from pole, quite a crazy statistic.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:49 am 
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Johnson wrote:
Hamilton set another record this season, most wins not starting from pole position within a season - 8.

10 wins and 8 are not from pole, quite a crazy statistic.


Certainly a testament to Hamilton's race craft. Also, it has to be said, a credit to Mercedes much maligned strategy team.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:31 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Hamilton set another record this season, most wins not starting from pole position within a season - 8.

10 wins and 8 are not from pole, quite a crazy statistic.


Certainly a testament to Hamilton's race craft. Also, it has to be said, a credit to Mercedes much maligned strategy team.

I'm not sure how many of those wins I would be giving to the strategy team, maybe 4 but how many have they lost as well I count about 3 and another 2 were Hamilton had to bail them out, it's a mixed bag.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:32 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Hamilton set another record this season, most wins not starting from pole position within a season - 8.

10 wins and 8 are not from pole, quite a crazy statistic.

He's had to do it because of the lack of poles, only 4. :(

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:33 pm 
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He may hang it up with seven championships if he exceeds Schumacher's race win total. I would think that race wins would be the tiebreaker most people would use to determine who was the most successful driver (with WDC's being the first thing). That's just my thoughts...I mean if you don't use race wins as a tiebreaker then what is the tiebreaker and why is that statistic better than race wins?


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:02 pm 
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Donington93 wrote:
He may hang it up with seven championships if he exceeds Schumacher's race win total. I would think that race wins would be the tiebreaker most people would use to determine who was the most successful driver (with WDC's being the first thing). That's just my thoughts...I mean if you don't use race wins as a tiebreaker then what is the tiebreaker and why is that statistic better than race wins?

I don't see race wins as a "tiebreaker" when today's drivers have as much as 20% more races per year. Like points, it is at best an asterisk to a record, at worst meaningless.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:10 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Donington93 wrote:
He may hang it up with seven championships if he exceeds Schumacher's race win total. I would think that race wins would be the tiebreaker most people would use to determine who was the most successful driver (with WDC's being the first thing). That's just my thoughts...I mean if you don't use race wins as a tiebreaker then what is the tiebreaker and why is that statistic better than race wins?

I don't see race wins as a "tiebreaker" when today's drivers have as much as 20% more races per year. Like points, it is at best an asterisk to a record, at worst meaningless.


Surely by that logic you would view Hamilton as the most successful driver anyway. 7 WDC's in in 14 seasons compared to Shumacher's 7 in 15 seasons?

It's pretty close anyway.

Hamilton is on 247 starts and 83 wins. Schumacher's 91st win was on his 247th start.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 4:18 pm 
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Of course it all becomes irrelevant if LH goes on to get 8 World Drivers Champonships!


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:11 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Donington93 wrote:
He may hang it up with seven championships if he exceeds Schumacher's race win total. I would think that race wins would be the tiebreaker most people would use to determine who was the most successful driver (with WDC's being the first thing). That's just my thoughts...I mean if you don't use race wins as a tiebreaker then what is the tiebreaker and why is that statistic better than race wins?

I don't see race wins as a "tiebreaker" when today's drivers have as much as 20% more races per year. Like points, it is at best an asterisk to a record, at worst meaningless.


Surely by that logic you would view Hamilton as the most successful driver anyway. 7 WDC's in in 14 seasons compared to Shumacher's 7 in 15 seasons?

It's pretty close anyway.

Hamilton is on 247 starts and 83 wins. Schumacher's 91st win was on his 247th start.


Schumacher %age wins 29.55%
Hamilton %age wins-33.60%

Its probably a good bet to assume that Hams %age will go down over the next few seasons


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 7:53 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Blake wrote:
Donington93 wrote:
He may hang it up with seven championships if he exceeds Schumacher's race win total. I would think that race wins would be the tiebreaker most people would use to determine who was the most successful driver (with WDC's being the first thing). That's just my thoughts...I mean if you don't use race wins as a tiebreaker then what is the tiebreaker and why is that statistic better than race wins?

I don't see race wins as a "tiebreaker" when today's drivers have as much as 20% more races per year. Like points, it is at best an asterisk to a record, at worst meaningless.


Surely by that logic you would view Hamilton as the most successful driver anyway. 7 WDC's in in 14 seasons compared to Shumacher's 7 in 15 seasons?

It's pretty close anyway.

Hamilton is on 247 starts and 83 wins. Schumacher's 91st win was on his 247th start.


Schumacher %age wins 29.55%
Hamilton %age wins-33.60%

Its probably a good bet to assume that Hams %age will go down over the next few seasons


Maybe, but he has a long way to fall and a big buffer, so to speak. He's currently winning ~50% of races with Mercedes. I could see him winning 33% of races over the next 60-65 races (3 seasons worth).


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2019 8:37 pm 
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Blake wrote:
Donington93 wrote:
He may hang it up with seven championships if he exceeds Schumacher's race win total. I would think that race wins would be the tiebreaker most people would use to determine who was the most successful driver (with WDC's being the first thing). That's just my thoughts...I mean if you don't use race wins as a tiebreaker then what is the tiebreaker and why is that statistic better than race wins?

I don't see race wins as a "tiebreaker" when today's drivers have as much as 20% more races per year. Like points, it is at best an asterisk to a record, at worst meaningless.


If you are placing championships as the first, ahead of wins, then Schumacher had 17 seasons - 7 titles. Fangio had 7 seasons and 5 titles. Hamilton now hitting 6 from 13.

Modern drivers had a much greater opportunity to win titles simply because you would likely be dead before you managed to amass 17 with the 1950-1970's cars and tracks. Likewise Clark, Stewart, Fangio etc were doing half the races Schumacher was doing. Everything has to be in context just as Schumachers records were when he set them.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 7:44 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Hamilton set another record this season, most wins not starting from pole position within a season - 8.

10 wins and 8 are not from pole, quite a crazy statistic.

He's had to do it because of the lack of poles, only 4. :(

Yes poor Hamilton having to make up for such a dog of a car. :-((

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 12:26 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Hamilton set another record this season, most wins not starting from pole position within a season - 8.

10 wins and 8 are not from pole, quite a crazy statistic.

He's had to do it because of the lack of poles, only 4. :(

Yes poor Hamilton having to make up for such a dog of a car. :-((


:lol:

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 1:23 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Hamilton set another record this season, most wins not starting from pole position within a season - 8.

10 wins and 8 are not from pole, quite a crazy statistic.

He's had to do it because of the lack of poles, only 4. :(

Yes poor Hamilton having to make up for such a dog of a car. :-((

Yeah like it's easy to win 10 races from only 4 poles?

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:02 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Blake wrote:
Donington93 wrote:
He may hang it up with seven championships if he exceeds Schumacher's race win total. I would think that race wins would be the tiebreaker most people would use to determine who was the most successful driver (with WDC's being the first thing). That's just my thoughts...I mean if you don't use race wins as a tiebreaker then what is the tiebreaker and why is that statistic better than race wins?

I don't see race wins as a "tiebreaker" when today's drivers have as much as 20% more races per year. Like points, it is at best an asterisk to a record, at worst meaningless.


If you are placing championships as the first, ahead of wins, then Schumacher had 17 seasons - 7 titles. Fangio had 7 seasons and 5 titles. Hamilton now hitting 6 from 13.

Modern drivers had a much greater opportunity to win titles simply because you would likely be dead before you managed to amass 17 with the 1950-1970's cars and tracks. Likewise Clark, Stewart, Fangio etc were doing half the races Schumacher was doing. Everything has to be in context just as Schumachers records were when he set them.

Ultimately, it's the age old "you can't directly compare generations solely on the statistics" situation. While Fangio had fewer races (I mean, Vettel has won more races than Fangio took part in) Fangio was always able to choose the fastest car, because he was in such demand - modern drivers get locked in to multi season contracts, and there is not as much change between teams performances year on year. Just as Schumacher couldn't win the championship in the 96 Ferrari (and was only able to take it to Williams in 97 due to their weak driver line up) - Hamilton was unable to compete in the Championship in 2009 / 2011 / 2013. Both drivers won races in their non competitive seasons though.

When we're analysing Schumacher vs Hamilton, I think that the fairer analysis is to compare Hamilton vs Schumacher until his first retirement. If Hamilton continues into his 40s, only then is is appropriate to start adding in Schumacher's Mercedes seasons into the mix. He was older, three years out of the sport and in a fledgling team during that period. Although I think he was also up against a generation of drivers who had not raced against him before and as such wasn't in their heads in the same way he was against his peers.

Modern F1 drivers do compete in more races, but equally every season the driver spends in a non competitive car are essentially wasted races towards any records and stats. The reliability of modern cars means that unless you are in a front running car you won't win a race or get a podium. Nico Hulkenberg would probably have several podiums had he races 30 years ago, maybe even a win - but in the modern era of F1 he is a journeyman likely never to stand on the podium (unless he replaces Albon next year)

Hamilton is at 83 races in the same number of races Schumacher got 91. On that basis Schumacher is ahead, although Hamilton is ahead on other records (such as poles, which he has smashed, most races led) - although given that Hamilton has one more season to go to match Schumacher 1.0 for total seasons it's likely that the win rate will likely be very similar, especially if Hamilton continues his 50% win rate into 2020.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:18 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Hamilton set another record this season, most wins not starting from pole position within a season - 8.

10 wins and 8 are not from pole, quite a crazy statistic.

He's had to do it because of the lack of poles, only 4. :(

Yes poor Hamilton having to make up for such a dog of a car. :-((

Yeah like it's easy to win 10 races from only 4 poles?

Tell that to Max who's won every race he's won without being on pole. I think he'd be happy for a car that can take four poles per season.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:32 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Hamilton set another record this season, most wins not starting from pole position within a season - 8.

10 wins and 8 are not from pole, quite a crazy statistic.

He's had to do it because of the lack of poles, only 4. :(

Yes poor Hamilton having to make up for such a dog of a car. :-((

Yeah like it's easy to win 10 races from only 4 poles?

Tell that to Max who's won every race he's won without being on pole. I think he'd be happy for a car that can take four poles per season.



So far he's half way there this year. Oh wait - he self-sabotaged his should-be 2nd pole position. x(


I wonder if the Red Bull can churn out another pole position before the season is out?


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:35 pm 
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Invade wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Tell that to Max who's won every race he's won without being on pole. I think he'd be happy for a car that can take four poles per season.

So far he's half way there this year. Oh wait - he self-sabotaged his should-be 2nd pole position. x(

I wonder if the Red Bull can churn out another pole position before the season is out?

I highly doubt it. None of the remaining tracks are RBR friendly -- although Max has looked very strong at COTA in the past, so it's not entirely out of the question.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2019 2:35 pm 
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I don't think we can rule out the possibility that Mercedes nails 2021 and give Hamilton the chance for 9-10 WDC's. And yeah it could all end this year, but to me the possibility of a best case scenario for Mercedes isn't exactly low. I would though like to see Hamilton paired with say... Verstappen... come 2021.


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