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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:08 pm 
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At the end of the race on Channel 4 it was stated that Kimi was now the most successful Finn with 21 races to Mika's 20. But surely, one more win doesn't trump Mika's 2nd championship victory! Total ******s from the commentators as usual...

So did they forget Mika had two WDCs or are they seriously trying to make a case that wins are worth more than championships?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:10 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
At the end of the race on Channel 4 it was stated that Kimi was now the most successful Finn with 21 races to Mika's 20. But surely, one more win doesn't trump Mika's 2nd championship victory! Total ******s from the commentators as usual...

So did they forget Mika had two WDCs or are they seriously trying to make a case that wins are worth more than championships?

Agree, Titles>Wins>Poles

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:10 pm 
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I thought they said most successful in terms of wins with 21 to Mika's 20.

Either way, no reason to get upset!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 3:20 pm 
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Michael Schumacher said that Mika Hakkinen was the fiercest competitor of his entire career. I doubt that Lewis Hamilton, Sebastian Vettel, or Fernando Alonso would say the same of Kimi.

Not a decisive criteria but it kind of puts it in perspective for me.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:11 pm 
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But he is the most successful Finn in terms of wins. I don't think that's a disingenuous claim to make.

I agree with Pokerman that "Titles>Wins>Poles" in the grand scheme of things.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:15 pm 
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They were referring to wins; and Coultard didn't forget, he spoke about the WDCs. He was his teammate at the time!


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:56 pm 
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I'd generally go WDC as top category and then race wins and then some order of podiums and poles but the first two are the big ones. If Kimi had 50 wins, I could see an argument for 1WDC and 50 wins being more successful than 2WDC and 20 wins so it's not definitive, but as a general rule it works for me.

Either way, doubt anything was meant by it other than a talking point that us pedants have latched onto.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 4:58 pm 
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Mika hands down, but Nico got involved in the discussion on social media, expressing how he has the most wins at 23.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:31 pm 
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i was a mika fan after hill (anyone who could beat schuey really) and then naturally moved on to kimi. mika was brilliant on his day and should definately be classed as the most successful. when kimi came along, and just going by my gut feeling at the time, i thought kimi was faster compared to dc then mika had been. (stats might well say otherwise). i think 2003-6 kimi would have actually beaten mika 98-99. big call and if i can be bothered ill see if the stats back that up in any way.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 5:32 pm 
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It all depends on how one defines success. In Kimi's case, his success appears to be something of an enigma.

Covalent wrote:
Mika hands down, but Nico got involved in the discussion on social media, expressing how he has the most wins at 23.
But Nico is not a Finn! :D

Why exactly, I don't know, but in my case the succession of Finns almost automatically meant I liked them; possibly because of Keke.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:18 pm 
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Mika competed in 165 races. Kimi will end his career with more than double of that, and is unlikely to add to his win tally. I like Kimi, but he's not in the same league as Mika was.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:43 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Mika hands down, but Nico got involved in the discussion on social media, expressing how he has the most wins at 23.

I thought he considered himself German


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:50 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
Mika hands down, but Nico got involved in the discussion on social media, expressing how he has the most wins at 23.

I thought he considered himself German

He raced under a German racing license, but I assume like most people with shared heritage that he considers himself both.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 6:51 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
Mika hands down, but Nico got involved in the discussion on social media, expressing how he has the most wins at 23.

I guess he was joking?

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:25 pm 
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He does have a Finnish nationality as well but does consider himself foremost a German so I assume it was a bit tongue in cheek.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2018 7:26 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Mika competed in 165 races. Kimi will end his career with more than double of that, and is unlikely to add to his win tally. I like Kimi, but he's not in the same league as Mika was.


Kimi has never had as dominant car as Mika had 1998. Him and Coulthard lapped every car in Melbourne...

And 1999 championship was pretty much handed to Mika after Schumacher accident.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:24 am 
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No, I think it is fair to say he is most successful since he has better numbers. Also Kimi missed title by 2pts in 2003. 2005 as well he has unlucky. He finished 3rd couple of times and I remember during the time when fastest lap had some significance he had I think 3rd highest percentage. 10 fastest lap in a season I think is the record which MS and Kimi achieved in 2004, 2005 resp. 2005 Michelin did not compete in US GP so I am sure he would have won and got fastest lap there as well

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:26 am 
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Let's also not forget that Kimi took 130 more races to get one extra win. It's not as if Kimi spent the first ten years of his career driving for Minardi either.

Mika won 12% of his F1 races, Kimi has won 7%.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 8:51 am 
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Covalent wrote:
Mika hands down, but Nico got involved in the discussion on social media, expressing how he has the most wins at 23.


Half-Finn, so half the wins???

Nationality is declared as German, so I am not sure if he would qualify for this. Most likely tongue in cheek!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 2:06 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
Let's also not forget that Kimi took 130 more races to get one extra win. It's not as if Kimi spent the first ten years of his career driving for Minardi either.

Mika won 12% of his F1 races, Kimi has won 7%.


Lotus wasn't winning car after Pirelli changed tire compound.

Kimi was around during RBR and Mercedes era, when winning without luck was quite impossible. One can also arque if he was given equal treatment during his second Ferrari stint.

Imo Kimi is mentally stronger and has more raw talent.

It has nothing to do racing skills, but Häkkinens corporate mannequin attitude is big turnoff for me. Even nowadays he sings Mercedes songs in every interview.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:39 pm 
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Hakkinen had a vast amount of raw speed. That is the one area Kimi definitely doesn't beat him on in my opinion.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2018 4:50 pm 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
No, I think it is fair to say he is most successful since he has better numbers. Also Kimi missed title by 2pts in 2003. 2005 as well he has unlucky. He finished 3rd couple of times and I remember during the time when fastest lap had some significance he had I think 3rd highest percentage. 10 fastest lap in a season I think is the record which MS and Kimi achieved in 2004, 2005 resp. 2005 Michelin did not compete in US GP so I am sure he would have won and got fastest lap there as well
Didn't Kimi equal that record in 2008? I believe he is still one of the fastest drivers in the pack, and I got nervous when he again referred to his tyres switching later than with most other top drivers. And then he goes and wins at COTA. :D

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:20 am 
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2018 3:45 pm 
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ALESI wrote:
At the end of the race on Channel 4 it was stated that Kimi was now the most successful Finn with 21 races to Mika's 20. But surely, one more win doesn't trump Mika's 2nd championship victory! Total ******s from the commentators as usual...

So did they forget Mika had two WDCs or are they seriously trying to make a case that wins are worth more than championships?


Yeah that annoyed me too but I agree 2 WDC is more successful

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 28, 2018 11:17 pm 
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Yeah, it's a strange thing to say. Kimi does have the most wins now, and a longer career, but I would say that Mika's two titles makes him the more successful. It's true that with a few differences Kimi could easily have had more than one, but he doesn't, so that's purely speculative and presumably does not enter into a discussion of who has more success (who could have had more success being always a very different question). I wouldn't count Nico Rosberg since he didn't race under a Finnish license, even if he could have done so.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:38 am 
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You could also argue that if Hamilton and Alonso hadn't been so focused on each other in 2007 Kimi might not have even have one.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:00 pm 
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True. Either argument could be made. But these are all hypotheticals: the facts are that while Kimi has one more win, Mika has one more championship, and the championship should count for a deal more in terms of being successful. If it were a large number of wins more, I could see the argument - but not one.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:45 am 
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Fiki wrote:
It all depends on how one defines success.


True. That's what keeps discussions going on this forum ;)

By my calculations based on finishing positions and number of races the score is surprisingly even between the three finns at the top of The Finnish Top 8:

Kimi Räikkönen - 1136
Nico Rosberg - 1127
Mika Häkkinen - 1118

Valtteri Bottas - 718
Keke Rosberg - 491
Heikki Kovalainen - 150
Mika Salo - 69
JJ Lehto - 31


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