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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:06 pm 
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Really. Who's gonna stop him? Verstappen seems unlikely as RBR will have a new engine, Vettel obviously can't do it. Help us Charles Leclercqenobi, you're our only hope.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Mercedes probably haven't even had the best car this year.

It will probably be a three-team fight next year.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:16 pm 
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I just looked up some odds. Hamilton to win the WDC is evens.

Hamilton to win the 2019,2020 and 2021 WDC is 10/1

To win 2019 and 2020 is 4/1

This seems a good bet.
Charles Leclerc to qualify fastest at any event in 2019 - 4/6

https://m.skybet.com/formula-1/formula- ... t/22597676


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:31 pm 
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Does anyone think Ferrari have a very good chance of winning the 2019 Constructors Championship? I think that Leclerc will be closer to Vettel in the points than Bottas will be to Hamilton.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:46 pm 
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Liket wrote:
Really. Who's gonna stop him? Verstappen seems unlikely as RBR will have a new engine, Vettel obviously can't do it. Help us Charles Leclercqenobi, you're our only hope.


All it takes is for the teams to have similar status next year and for Hamilton to dip a bit and Vettel to not make errors and Ferrari can take the WDC. Or it could take Honda producing a good engine with RBR doing all the rest with their design + Max to bring it home, but perhaps it's more reasonable to expect that partnership to flourish by 2020 instead.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:48 pm 
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owenmahamilton wrote:
Does anyone think Ferrari have a very good chance of winning the 2019 Constructors Championship? I think that Leclerc will be closer to Vettel in the points than Bottas will be to Hamilton.

If the pattern continues Ferrari would have the clear best car next year.

2017 - Slightly worse than Mercedes
2018 - Slightly better than Mercedes
2019 - Clearly better than Mercedes?

Who knows how it will play out, particularly with the regulation changes. But overall yes, I'd say Ferrari have a good chance at one, if not both, of the championships next year.


Last edited by Black_Flag_11 on Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:48 pm 
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I think for Ferrari to win the 2019 WDC rests on one thing - How Leclerc performs.

If Leclerc is very fast from the get go & beats Vettel, then Vettel will implode, this will cause massive disruption within the Ferrari camp which causes strategic errors & blunders which hands the crown to Mercs & Hamilton.
If this were to happen, I can’t see Vettel in a Ferrari come 2020.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
owenmahamilton wrote:
Does anyone think Ferrari have a very good chance of winning the 2019 Constructors Championship? I think that Leclerc will be closer to Vettel in the points than Bottas will be to Hamilton.

If the pattern continues Ferrari would have the clear best car next year.

2017 - Slightly worse than Mercedes
2018 - Slightly better than Mercedes
2019 - Clearly better than Mercedes?

Who knows how it will play out, particularly with the regulation changes. But overall yes, I'd say Ferrari have a good chance at one, if not both, of the championships next year.

Yes I've posted something similar in another thread, the sands of time are slowly turning on Mercedes.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:27 pm 
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With the aero changes for next season, I think it's anyone's guess who will have the top car. I predict that Red Bull will be right there next year. It might be a close battle between three teams or maybe either Ferrari or Mercedes will fall off. I don't think it's going to be like the last two years though; with Mercedes and Ferrari in a two team fight. I think Red Bull will catch up at last in 2019.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:33 pm 
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I really feel Ferrari will be a step above next year, for me its comparable to the Red Bull in aero (slightly weaker) and a match if not better than the Mercs engine.

The only thing that can screw it up is Ferraris own development with the 2019 specs - Though they aren't massive changes.

Red Bull will be good but I honestly feel the Honda engine will struggle the same as Renaults in that Chassis. All the failures of the Renault engine the majority of them by a long way have been in the Red Bull - packaging could be a contribution to those failures.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:53 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
I just looked up some odds. Hamilton to win the WDC is evens.

Hamilton to win the 2019,2020 and 2021 WDC is 10/1

To win 2019 and 2020 is 4/1

This seems a good bet.
Charles Leclerc to qualify fastest at any event in 2019 - 4/6

https://m.skybet.com/formula-1/formula- ... t/22597676


I was considering a flutter on Verstappen at 5/1 for the WDC.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:53 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
I just looked up some odds. Hamilton to win the WDC is evens.

Hamilton to win the 2019,2020 and 2021 WDC is 10/1

To win 2019 and 2020 is 4/1

This seems a good bet.
Charles Leclerc to qualify fastest at any event in 2019 - 4/6

https://m.skybet.com/formula-1/formula- ... t/22597676

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:38 pm 
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My money is already on Leclerc for the title. Yeah, I know... :)


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2018 10:24 pm 
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For anyone other than Hamilton to be in with a chance of the WDC the last thing you want is Red Bull being competitive. Why because they need to be dominant not competitive. Ferrari will also be competitive either in the form of LeClerc or Vettel.

This means that Verstappen, LeClerc and Vettel will simply be taking points off each other. Hamilton seems to have the beating of Bottas and when needs be will follow team orders.

The only person who can beat LH is LH himself, will he still have his focus, if he does then its very hard to see a real challenger.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:38 am 
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Next year is going to be much harder to win for Lewis. I expect a weaker Mercedes car, a stronger Vettel, a competitive Ferrari. Leclerc will imo definitely be better than Raikonnen, so will be more of a factor in the championship, and then there is the question of Redbull Honda and how good they'll be. I have no idea who will be the favourite, let's revisit sometimes in early March shall we?


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:59 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Johnson wrote:
I just looked up some odds. Hamilton to win the WDC is evens.

Hamilton to win the 2019,2020 and 2021 WDC is 10/1

To win 2019 and 2020 is 4/1

This seems a good bet.
Charles Leclerc to qualify fastest at any event in 2019 - 4/6

https://m.skybet.com/formula-1/formula- ... t/22597676

Access Denied

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Ya can't get there from here!

Yeah I believe Americans are not allowed to gamble on foreign websites?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:02 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
For anyone other than Hamilton to be in with a chance of the WDC the last thing you want is Red Bull being competitive. Why because they need to be dominant not competitive. Ferrari will also be competitive either in the form of LeClerc or Vettel.

This means that Verstappen, LeClerc and Vettel will simply be taking points off each other. Hamilton seems to have the beating of Bottas and when needs be will follow team orders.

The only person who can beat LH is LH himself, will he still have his focus, if he does then its very hard to see a real challenger.

I wonder if Bottas would be prepared to play that role next year because he has a performance clause on his contract which I guess will be tied to how many points he scores, there's also the possibility he may be replaced by Ocon for 2020 anyway so he will need to put himself in the shop window and playing second fiddle might not cut it?

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
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2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:19 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
For anyone other than Hamilton to be in with a chance of the WDC the last thing you want is Red Bull being competitive. Why because they need to be dominant not competitive. Ferrari will also be competitive either in the form of LeClerc or Vettel.

This means that Verstappen, LeClerc and Vettel will simply be taking points off each other. Hamilton seems to have the beating of Bottas and when needs be will follow team orders.

The only person who can beat LH is LH himself, will he still have his focus, if he does then its very hard to see a real challenger.


Competitive Red Bull helped Hamilton this year. If they did not win in Monaco and Mexico then Vettel would have won them both and be about 10 points better off at this point.

If Red Bull is competitive, who knows how it plays out - but you neglected that both will take points off Hamilton too.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:47 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Johnson wrote:
I just looked up some odds. Hamilton to win the WDC is evens.

Hamilton to win the 2019,2020 and 2021 WDC is 10/1

To win 2019 and 2020 is 4/1

This seems a good bet.
Charles Leclerc to qualify fastest at any event in 2019 - 4/6

https://m.skybet.com/formula-1/formula- ... t/22597676

Access Denied

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Ya can't get there from here!

Yeah I believe Americans are not allowed to gamble on foreign websites?


:nod:

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:58 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
Johnson wrote:
I just looked up some odds. Hamilton to win the WDC is evens.

Hamilton to win the 2019,2020 and 2021 WDC is 10/1

To win 2019 and 2020 is 4/1

This seems a good bet.
Charles Leclerc to qualify fastest at any event in 2019 - 4/6

https://m.skybet.com/formula-1/formula- ... t/22597676

Access Denied

Sorry, access to this site has or may be restricted or prohibited from your current location.

Ya can't get there from here!

Yeah I believe Americans are not allowed to gamble on foreign websites?


:nod:

I know that through playing on poker sites. :)

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:35 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
For anyone other than Hamilton to be in with a chance of the WDC the last thing you want is Red Bull being competitive. Why because they need to be dominant not competitive. Ferrari will also be competitive either in the form of LeClerc or Vettel.

This means that Verstappen, LeClerc and Vettel will simply be taking points off each other. Hamilton seems to have the beating of Bottas and when needs be will follow team orders.

The only person who can beat LH is LH himself, will he still have his focus, if he does then its very hard to see a real challenger.


Competitive Red Bull helped Hamilton this year. If they did not win in Monaco and Mexico then Vettel would have won them both and be about 10 points better off at this point.

If Red Bull is competitive, who knows how it plays out - but you neglected that both will take points off Hamilton too.



But that is my point, even when the Merc was slower than the Ferrari LH still got results, what I'm saying is that taking points from Hamilton will be harder than from each other. Verstappen and Vettel made more mistakes than Hamilton and LeClerc won't be 100% in his first year. It will be much closer though that is for sure.

I just wonder how LH and Mercedes will do in the remaining races, they seem to drop right off at the end of the season.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:53 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
For anyone other than Hamilton to be in with a chance of the WDC the last thing you want is Red Bull being competitive. Why because they need to be dominant not competitive. Ferrari will also be competitive either in the form of LeClerc or Vettel.

This means that Verstappen, LeClerc and Vettel will simply be taking points off each other. Hamilton seems to have the beating of Bottas and when needs be will follow team orders.

The only person who can beat LH is LH himself, will he still have his focus, if he does then its very hard to see a real challenger.


Competitive Red Bull helped Hamilton this year. If they did not win in Monaco and Mexico then Vettel would have won them both and be about 10 points better off at this point.

If Red Bull is competitive, who knows how it plays out - but you neglected that both will take points off Hamilton too.



But that is my point, even when the Merc was slower than the Ferrari LH still got results, what I'm saying is that taking points from Hamilton will be harder than from each other. Verstappen and Vettel made more mistakes than Hamilton and LeClerc won't be 100% in his first year. It will be much closer though that is for sure.

I just wonder how LH and Mercedes will do in the remaining races, they seem to drop right off at the end of the season.


That's trademark Lewis. He did his part and now cools off. It is mentally fatiguing to be dialed in that long. A big reason Rosberg cites as a reason for his retirement so I don't blame Lewis for cooling down a bit but he'll back 100% in March as usual.

As for next year... while I'm excited for what the new aero changes "could" bring, these regulations still favor a powerful engine which I suspect Merc will also improve for next season. I hope Honda and Ferrari make massive gains but I would still bet on Merc and Hamilton if I had to make a wager today.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:55 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
For anyone other than Hamilton to be in with a chance of the WDC the last thing you want is Red Bull being competitive. Why because they need to be dominant not competitive. Ferrari will also be competitive either in the form of LeClerc or Vettel.

This means that Verstappen, LeClerc and Vettel will simply be taking points off each other. Hamilton seems to have the beating of Bottas and when needs be will follow team orders.

The only person who can beat LH is LH himself, will he still have his focus, if he does then its very hard to see a real challenger.


Competitive Red Bull helped Hamilton this year. If they did not win in Monaco and Mexico then Vettel would have won them both and be about 10 points better off at this point.

If Red Bull is competitive, who knows how it plays out - but you neglected that both will take points off Hamilton too.



But that is my point, even when the Merc was slower than the Ferrari LH still got results, what I'm saying is that taking points from Hamilton will be harder than from each other. Verstappen and Vettel made more mistakes than Hamilton and LeClerc won't be 100% in his first year. It will be much closer though that is for sure.

I just wonder how LH and Mercedes will do in the remaining races, they seem to drop right off at the end of the season.


When the Merc was slower than the Ferrari the Redbull was nowhere whereas it was vice versa for Ferrari.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 5:02 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
For anyone other than Hamilton to be in with a chance of the WDC the last thing you want is Red Bull being competitive. Why because they need to be dominant not competitive. Ferrari will also be competitive either in the form of LeClerc or Vettel.

This means that Verstappen, LeClerc and Vettel will simply be taking points off each other. Hamilton seems to have the beating of Bottas and when needs be will follow team orders.

The only person who can beat LH is LH himself, will he still have his focus, if he does then its very hard to see a real challenger.

I wonder if Bottas would be prepared to play that role next year because he has a performance clause on his contract which I guess will be tied to how many points he scores, there's also the possibility he may be replaced by Ocon for 2020 anyway so he will need to put himself in the shop window and playing second fiddle might not cut it?


Wasn't aware of that performance clause. I suppose he will have his chance to perform in the early races, just like this year. If he fails to make an impression on those then it's bye bye I guess.


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:26 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
For anyone other than Hamilton to be in with a chance of the WDC the last thing you want is Red Bull being competitive. Why because they need to be dominant not competitive. Ferrari will also be competitive either in the form of LeClerc or Vettel.

This means that Verstappen, LeClerc and Vettel will simply be taking points off each other. Hamilton seems to have the beating of Bottas and when needs be will follow team orders.

The only person who can beat LH is LH himself, will he still have his focus, if he does then its very hard to see a real challenger.

I wonder if Bottas would be prepared to play that role next year because he has a performance clause on his contract which I guess will be tied to how many points he scores, there's also the possibility he may be replaced by Ocon for 2020 anyway so he will need to put himself in the shop window and playing second fiddle might not cut it?


Wasn't aware of that performance clause. I suppose he will have his chance to perform in the early races, just like this year. If he fails to make an impression on those then it's bye bye I guess.

Yes but either way what would be the incentive to help Hamilton?

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2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:44 am 
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I love how nobody mentioned Gasly. :lol:


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:44 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
For anyone other than Hamilton to be in with a chance of the WDC the last thing you want is Red Bull being competitive. Why because they need to be dominant not competitive. Ferrari will also be competitive either in the form of LeClerc or Vettel.

This means that Verstappen, LeClerc and Vettel will simply be taking points off each other. Hamilton seems to have the beating of Bottas and when needs be will follow team orders.

The only person who can beat LH is LH himself, will he still have his focus, if he does then its very hard to see a real challenger.

Well noted, on ALL counts. :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:58 pm 
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CC78AMG wrote:
I love how nobody mentioned Gasly. :lol:

Well I wouldn't have the Red Bull Honda down as a title contender in the first place.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: Currently 3rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 4:24 pm 
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Option or Prime wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
For anyone other than Hamilton to be in with a chance of the WDC the last thing you want is Red Bull being competitive. Why because they need to be dominant not competitive. Ferrari will also be competitive either in the form of LeClerc or Vettel.

This means that Verstappen, LeClerc and Vettel will simply be taking points off each other. Hamilton seems to have the beating of Bottas and when needs be will follow team orders.

The only person who can beat LH is LH himself, will he still have his focus, if he does then its very hard to see a real challenger.


Competitive Red Bull helped Hamilton this year. If they did not win in Monaco and Mexico then Vettel would have won them both and be about 10 points better off at this point.

If Red Bull is competitive, who knows how it plays out - but you neglected that both will take points off Hamilton too.



But that is my point, even when the Merc was slower than the Ferrari LH still got results, what I'm saying is that taking points from Hamilton will be harder than from each other. Verstappen and Vettel made more mistakes than Hamilton and LeClerc won't be 100% in his first year. It will be much closer though that is for sure.

I just wonder how LH and Mercedes will do in the remaining races, they seem to drop right off at the end of the season.


This season, Hamilton managed to pull some great results when his car wasn't the best. You can't do that all the time. He wasn't really able to do it in 2017 title fight and you can not rely on Vettel to continually mess up when he has a winning package for that weekend. Vettel will not make as many mistakes next year as he did this year, I am almost certain of that.

Hamilton also can't continue to drive essentially error free. This year was a bit of a freak in that it was exceptionally good for Hamilton and exceptionally bad for Vettel. Both of these things won't happen again in the same year


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:50 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
For anyone other than Hamilton to be in with a chance of the WDC the last thing you want is Red Bull being competitive. Why because they need to be dominant not competitive. Ferrari will also be competitive either in the form of LeClerc or Vettel.

This means that Verstappen, LeClerc and Vettel will simply be taking points off each other. Hamilton seems to have the beating of Bottas and when needs be will follow team orders.

The only person who can beat LH is LH himself, will he still have his focus, if he does then its very hard to see a real challenger.


Competitive Red Bull helped Hamilton this year. If they did not win in Monaco and Mexico then Vettel would have won them both and be about 10 points better off at this point.

If Red Bull is competitive, who knows how it plays out - but you neglected that both will take points off Hamilton too.



But that is my point, even when the Merc was slower than the Ferrari LH still got results, what I'm saying is that taking points from Hamilton will be harder than from each other. Verstappen and Vettel made more mistakes than Hamilton and LeClerc won't be 100% in his first year. It will be much closer though that is for sure.

I just wonder how LH and Mercedes will do in the remaining races, they seem to drop right off at the end of the season.


This season, Hamilton managed to pull some great results when his car wasn't the best. You can't do that all the time. He wasn't really able to do it in 2017 title fight and you can not rely on Vettel to continually mess up when he has a winning package for that weekend. Vettel will not make as many mistakes next year as he did this year, I am almost certain of that.

Hamilton also can't continue to drive essentially error free. This year was a bit of a freak in that it was exceptionally good for Hamilton and exceptionally bad for Vettel. Both of these things won't happen again in the same year


If there is a 3 way fight for the title I agree Hamilton will have a more difficult time in getting good results as he did this year.

As for vettel not making as many mistakes next year I have a hard time seeing that one at this point in time and it’s because vettel has issues with over taking other fast cars. It’s something vettel should be good at given the experience he has. The guy can manage a race start to finish with ease but when he has to race other fast drivers with equal pace he struggles. If next season vettel has 5 other drivers in competitive cars next season vettel may fall into similar circumstances.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 5:58 pm 
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Mayhem wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
For anyone other than Hamilton to be in with a chance of the WDC the last thing you want is Red Bull being competitive. Why because they need to be dominant not competitive. Ferrari will also be competitive either in the form of LeClerc or Vettel.

This means that Verstappen, LeClerc and Vettel will simply be taking points off each other. Hamilton seems to have the beating of Bottas and when needs be will follow team orders.

The only person who can beat LH is LH himself, will he still have his focus, if he does then its very hard to see a real challenger.


Competitive Red Bull helped Hamilton this year. If they did not win in Monaco and Mexico then Vettel would have won them both and be about 10 points better off at this point.

If Red Bull is competitive, who knows how it plays out - but you neglected that both will take points off Hamilton too.



But that is my point, even when the Merc was slower than the Ferrari LH still got results, what I'm saying is that taking points from Hamilton will be harder than from each other. Verstappen and Vettel made more mistakes than Hamilton and LeClerc won't be 100% in his first year. It will be much closer though that is for sure.

I just wonder how LH and Mercedes will do in the remaining races, they seem to drop right off at the end of the season.


This season, Hamilton managed to pull some great results when his car wasn't the best. You can't do that all the time. He wasn't really able to do it in 2017 title fight and you can not rely on Vettel to continually mess up when he has a winning package for that weekend. Vettel will not make as many mistakes next year as he did this year, I am almost certain of that.

Hamilton also can't continue to drive essentially error free. This year was a bit of a freak in that it was exceptionally good for Hamilton and exceptionally bad for Vettel. Both of these things won't happen again in the same year


If there is a 3 way fight for the title I agree Hamilton will have a more difficult time in getting good results as he did this year.

As for vettel not making as many mistakes next year I have a hard time seeing that one at this point in time and it’s because vettel has issues with over taking other fast cars. It’s something vettel should be good at given the experience he has. The guy can manage a race start to finish with ease but when he has to race other fast drivers with equal pace he struggles. If next season vettel has 5 other drivers in competitive cars next season vettel may fall into similar circumstances.

I don't think that's true, we've seen Vettel make great moves against the Mercedes cars this year. If his mistakes were only happening when in battle with the Mercedes I think you'd have a point but that hasn't been the case. He's made mistakes in all kinds of situations, not just in battle with another car.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:14 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
If there is a 3 way fight for the title I agree Hamilton will have a more difficult time in getting good results as he did this year.

As for vettel not making as many mistakes next year I have a hard time seeing that one at this point in time and it’s because vettel has issues with over taking other fast cars. It’s something vettel should be good at given the experience he has. The guy can manage a race start to finish with ease but when he has to race other fast drivers with equal pace he struggles. If next season vettel has 5 other drivers in competitive cars next season vettel may fall into similar circumstances.

I don't think that's true, we've seen Vettel make great moves against the Mercedes cars this year. If his mistakes were only happening when in battle with the Mercedes I think you'd have a point but that hasn't been the case. He's made mistakes in all kinds of situations, not just in battle with another car.


Yes, He made unforced errors but Most of his errors this season occurred while jossling for position not necessarily for the lead but either defending an overtake or attempting one Hense the wheel to wheel comment. Has he made some good overtakes in his career ofcourse he has but it is not an ability he is known to be great at.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:27 pm 
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Mayhem wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
If there is a 3 way fight for the title I agree Hamilton will have a more difficult time in getting good results as he did this year.

As for vettel not making as many mistakes next year I have a hard time seeing that one at this point in time and it’s because vettel has issues with over taking other fast cars. It’s something vettel should be good at given the experience he has. The guy can manage a race start to finish with ease but when he has to race other fast drivers with equal pace he struggles. If next season vettel has 5 other drivers in competitive cars next season vettel may fall into similar circumstances.

I don't think that's true, we've seen Vettel make great moves against the Mercedes cars this year. If his mistakes were only happening when in battle with the Mercedes I think you'd have a point but that hasn't been the case. He's made mistakes in all kinds of situations, not just in battle with another car.


Yes, He made unforced errors but Most of his errors this season occurred while jossling for position not necessarily for the lead but either defending an overtake or attempting one Hense the wheel to wheel comment. Has he made some good overtakes in his career ofcourse he has but it is not an ability he is known to be great at.

I've always felt that position was nonsense. People said he couldn't overtake he won everything from pole, I think we've seen plenty to say that's not true since. This year he's been hit and miss in wheel to wheel racing but this year he's been hit and miss everywhere.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:44 pm 
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Vettels big weaknesses the last 3 years has been the opening lap. I think he has damaged his car or spun to the back at least 10 times on the opening lap in the last 3 seasons. Maybe even more.

I think he is fine going wheel to wheel during the race whens its 1v1. Likewise he messed up the Baku restart this year as that had multiple cars to allow for and in 2012 nearly blew the title again during the first lap mayhem.

His risk-reward in such situations is dialled way too much toward risk. That's why he didn't make these errors in 2011 and 2013, because once you got a great car your risk is much lower as you know you don't need to make the pass on lap 1 - you will get opportunities later in the race. This is the same for all drivers of course, but seems more extreme with Vettel.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 7:43 pm 
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To be honest, it's hard to see someone beating Hamilton on the form he's been in these last few years unless they have a significant car advantage or a significant reliability advantage. He's the fastest guy out there and also seems to be the least prone to errors while also displaying the best racecraft. Alonso's racecraft and ability to perform consistently while avoiding errors is similar but he won't be there next year and, even if he was, the car would nullify his ability.

We can speculate about how good Max will be in the future but he still does not drive with a mentality that would beat Hamilton in a head to head fight. He'd lose too many points to incidents IMO. I think Vettel is probably still the odds-on favorite to challenge Lewis next year but I wonder whether he's really up to the task. He's one of the few guys with a similar level of speed but can he string together a season without making major mistakes if he's in a close fight for the title? I'm not so sure. He's never done that. I wouldn't put it past him and he will absolutely be motivated next year like never before but his performance this season doesn't inspire confidence. We've seen how great he is on his day but I think people underestimate the level of consistency that Hamilton has reached of late. It will be a very tough task and Vettel will likely have to deal with more internal competition from his new teammate than he ever did from Kimi. That said, there is a distinct possibility that Ferrari will simply produce a car that is much stronger than Mercedes.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2018 8:02 pm 
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Even if the cars are similar to this year I just can't see Vettel making the same amount of mistakes, he has made that many it is quite ridiculous. Then you have Hamilton who has been driving at his best yet, been consistent and won races on weekends the car really shouldn't have. James Allison and Wolff have both said since the weekend that Hamilton has made the Mercedes competitive on weekends they wasn't competitive. If Hamilton even lowers his level a little bit or you get no rain on Ferrari tracks while adding in Vettel making less mistakes and I don't see it being that hard to make it close. Vettel needs to prove his can cope with squeaky bum time though.

I see posters blaming Ferrari in numerous threads but I just see that as over shadowing Vettels mistakes, Mercedes made their fair share. How Vettel drove this season damaged his title chances alot more than Ferrari. Ferrari need to look at what happened over those 3 races though.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 10:34 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
To be honest, it's hard to see someone beating Hamilton on the form he's been in these last few years unless they have a significant car advantage or a significant reliability advantage. He's the fastest guy out there and also seems to be the least prone to errors while also displaying the best racecraft. Alonso's racecraft and ability to perform consistently while avoiding errors is similar but he won't be there next year and, even if he was, the car would nullify his ability.

We can speculate about how good Max will be in the future but he still does not drive with a mentality that would beat Hamilton in a head to head fight. He'd lose too many points to incidents IMO. I think Vettel is probably still the odds-on favorite to challenge Lewis next year but I wonder whether he's really up to the task. He's one of the few guys with a similar level of speed but can he string together a season without making major mistakes if he's in a close fight for the title? I'm not so sure. He's never done that. I wouldn't put it past him and he will absolutely be motivated next year like never before but his performance this season doesn't inspire confidence. We've seen how great he is on his day but I think people underestimate the level of consistency that Hamilton has reached of late. It will be a very tough task and Vettel will likely have to deal with more internal competition from his new teammate than he ever did from Kimi. That said, there is a distinct possibility that Ferrari will simply produce a car that is much stronger than Mercedes.

I echo this sentiment. Very good post, Hamilton looks unbeatable. In all my time as an F1 fan, he is the only one that I've witnessed shattering the morale Schumacher-style.

I am only a bit sceptical about the last bit, why is that a distinct possibility that Ferrari will be much stronger than the Merc next year?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:37 am 
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Dependes on the car off course, since the domination has been so complete since 2012 now by either Red Bull, Mercedes and this year a combination off Merc/Ferrari no other driver has had a chance to establish a real challenge or even come close to a podium.

We always tend to assume what happened will happen so in that way a new Merc 2019 contender is highly likely and Bottas perhaps wingman again so to believe that Ferrari with Vettel/Leclerc can put together a challenge looks less likely.

This is perhaps what puts people off F1 now, it's too predictable, for any team outside Merc spend that amount off money wont happen, so assume another 2017 IMO with Bottas as wingman again and Ferrari a bit behind and Red Bull more behind.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:38 am 
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AnRs wrote:
Dependes on the car off course, since the domination has been so complete since 2012 now by either Red Bull, Mercedes and this year a combination off Merc/Ferrari no other driver has had a chance to establish a real challenge or even come close to a podium.

We always tend to assume what happened will happen so in that way a new Merc 2019 contender is highly likely and Bottas perhaps wingman again so to believe that Ferrari with Vettel/Leclerc can put together a challenge looks less likely.

This is perhaps what puts people off F1 now, it's too predictable, for any team outside Merc spend that amount off money wont happen, so assume another 2017 IMO with Bottas as wingman again and Ferrari a bit behind and Red Bull more behind.

This has been the case for decades


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2018 11:41 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
AnRs wrote:
Dependes on the car off course, since the domination has been so complete since 2012 now by either Red Bull, Mercedes and this year a combination off Merc/Ferrari no other driver has had a chance to establish a real challenge or even come close to a podium.

We always tend to assume what happened will happen so in that way a new Merc 2019 contender is highly likely and Bottas perhaps wingman again so to believe that Ferrari with Vettel/Leclerc can put together a challenge looks less likely.

This is perhaps what puts people off F1 now, it's too predictable, for any team outside Merc spend that amount off money wont happen, so assume another 2017 IMO with Bottas as wingman again and Ferrari a bit behind and Red Bull more behind.

This has been the case for decades


Have a look at the period 2005-2012 and I see it different, but after 2013 and onwards


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