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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 7:20 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Hamilton has become a lot like Schumacher at the same age in that, regardless of what happens during the weekend, he has a nose for that checkered flag and just seems to find a way to win most races. So far this year, I see his individual performance as being a bit lackluster by his standards. This is what we have come to expect during the first handful of races from Lewis as he really seems to hit his stride right when the season moves to Europe. The fact that he has won 2 of 3 races is ominous for the rest of the grid IMO.


Another thing is that Ferrari seems hell bent on destroying their own campaign, so really the only competition for Hamilton is Bottas.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:17 am 
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This start is reminiscent of the '14-'16 domination years. The fact that so early in the season they look so good and their opponents look below par.

I was kind of expecting that. A lot of people tooted Ferrari to be the best car; but the car seems to have top speed and is not as good on the twisty bits, where the Mercs make a meal out of them. People kept banging on about the speed on the straights, but this is not a drag race. It is also so unreliable for today's standards.

I fear it is up to Bottas only to give Hamilton a headache.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:30 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
I fear it is up to Bottas only to give Hamilton a headache.

Ha.

Not much chance of that.

2021 can't come soon enough.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:49 am 
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I don't foresee sleepless nights in Toto's future. Maybe Bottas's, and definitely Vettel's, but not Toto's...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 8:53 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
This start is reminiscent of the '14-'16 domination years. The fact that so early in the season they look so good and their opponents look below par.

I was kind of expecting that. A lot of people tooted Ferrari to be the best car; but the car seems to have top speed and is not as good on the twisty bits, where the Mercs make a meal out of them. People kept banging on about the speed on the straights, but this is not a drag race. It is also so unreliable for today's standards.

I fear it is up to Bottas only to give Hamilton a headache.

I always figured the Mercedes was better than it made itself out to be in testing, tbh, and I never believed Wolff et al who claimed that Mercedes were struggling, but have to say I'm surprised how fragile the Ferrari is. And it's a bit of a surprise how challenged they appear to be in corners. In testing I seem to recall all the talk was of them being on rails, whereas since the start of the season they've looked anything but planted.

I'd love to see a proper fight at the front and it's a real shame that Ferrari seem to have botched the beginning of the season so far. The only sliver of hope I retain is that it appears that they have turned everything down for reliability concerns, which hopefully is something they can target as they know what the issue is. But their lack of cornering prowess is puzzling.

Still very early in the season of course but at this point you'd have to say Hamilton is in the hot seat. He's unquestionably better than Bottas and as long as Ferrari aren't bringing their "A" game then he can cruise quite comfortably to victory. Which makes it a less than scintillating season for the rest of us.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:04 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
This start is reminiscent of the '14-'16 domination years. The fact that so early in the season they look so good and their opponents look below par.

I was kind of expecting that. A lot of people tooted Ferrari to be the best car; but the car seems to have top speed and is not as good on the twisty bits, where the Mercs make a meal out of them. People kept banging on about the speed on the straights, but this is not a drag race. It is also so unreliable for today's standards.

I fear it is up to Bottas only to give Hamilton a headache.

I always figured the Mercedes was better than it made itself out to be in testing, tbh, and I never believed Wolff et al who claimed that Mercedes were struggling, but have to say I'm surprised how fragile the Ferrari is. And it's a bit of a surprise how challenged they appear to be in corners. In testing I seem to recall all the talk was of them being on rails, whereas since the start of the season they've looked anything but planted.

I'd love to see a proper fight at the front and it's a real shame that Ferrari seem to have botched the beginning of the season so far. The only sliver of hope I retain is that it appears that they have turned everything down for reliability concerns, which hopefully is something they can target as they know what the issue is. But their lack of cornering prowess is puzzling.

Still very early in the season of course but at this point you'd have to say Hamilton is in the hot seat. He's unquestionably better than Bottas and as long as Ferrari aren't bringing their "A" game then he can cruise quite comfortably to victory. Which makes it a less than scintillating season for the rest of us.


Yes, completely agree. Merc always hold their cards close to their chest in the testing, so I never believed Toto or Hamilton either. I just had hope for the Ferrari car. But as always, a rocket in straights won't go far, it also needs to turn!!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 9:13 am 
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As things stand it is very hard to argue with the OP.

Mercedes is a beast, Hamilton delivers most of the time and he is better than Vettel.

So Ferrari must really up their game and start consistently scoring huge points to have a chance of upsetting Mercedes.

Very hard to see how this would happen...


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:47 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
This start is reminiscent of the '14-'16 domination years. The fact that so early in the season they look so good and their opponents look below par.

I was kind of expecting that. A lot of people tooted Ferrari to be the best car; but the car seems to have top speed and is not as good on the twisty bits, where the Mercs make a meal out of them. People kept banging on about the speed on the straights, but this is not a drag race. It is also so unreliable for today's standards.

I fear it is up to Bottas only to give Hamilton a headache.

I always figured the Mercedes was better than it made itself out to be in testing, tbh, and I never believed Wolff et al who claimed that Mercedes were struggling, but have to say I'm surprised how fragile the Ferrari is. And it's a bit of a surprise how challenged they appear to be in corners. In testing I seem to recall all the talk was of them being on rails, whereas since the start of the season they've looked anything but planted.

I'd love to see a proper fight at the front and it's a real shame that Ferrari seem to have botched the beginning of the season so far. The only sliver of hope I retain is that it appears that they have turned everything down for reliability concerns, which hopefully is something they can target as they know what the issue is. But their lack of cornering prowess is puzzling.

Still very early in the season of course but at this point you'd have to say Hamilton is in the hot seat. He's unquestionably better than Bottas and as long as Ferrari aren't bringing their "A" game then he can cruise quite comfortably to victory. Which makes it a less than scintillating season for the rest of us.


It's understandable that Mercedes would downplay their own position and play up Ferrari's. Mercedes have been winning both championships since 2014, so F1 needs to try to sell it that this year might be different.
Wolff and Hamilton benefit if it seems like it is more of a task to win it, and the commentators have to sell F1 as an entertaining event, so the hype is a necessary part of F1.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:02 am 
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babararacucudada wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
This start is reminiscent of the '14-'16 domination years. The fact that so early in the season they look so good and their opponents look below par.

I was kind of expecting that. A lot of people tooted Ferrari to be the best car; but the car seems to have top speed and is not as good on the twisty bits, where the Mercs make a meal out of them. People kept banging on about the speed on the straights, but this is not a drag race. It is also so unreliable for today's standards.

I fear it is up to Bottas only to give Hamilton a headache.

I always figured the Mercedes was better than it made itself out to be in testing, tbh, and I never believed Wolff et al who claimed that Mercedes were struggling, but have to say I'm surprised how fragile the Ferrari is. And it's a bit of a surprise how challenged they appear to be in corners. In testing I seem to recall all the talk was of them being on rails, whereas since the start of the season they've looked anything but planted.

I'd love to see a proper fight at the front and it's a real shame that Ferrari seem to have botched the beginning of the season so far. The only sliver of hope I retain is that it appears that they have turned everything down for reliability concerns, which hopefully is something they can target as they know what the issue is. But their lack of cornering prowess is puzzling.

Still very early in the season of course but at this point you'd have to say Hamilton is in the hot seat. He's unquestionably better than Bottas and as long as Ferrari aren't bringing their "A" game then he can cruise quite comfortably to victory. Which makes it a less than scintillating season for the rest of us.


It's understandable that Mercedes would downplay their own position and play up Ferrari's. Mercedes have been winning both championships since 2014, so F1 needs to try to sell it that this year might be different.
Wolff and Hamilton benefit if it seems like it is more of a task to win it, and the commentators have to sell F1 as an entertaining event, so the hype is a necessary part of F1.


Yes, that goes without saying. I do not put so much weight on what Toto or Lewis say during the pre-season tests.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:22 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
This start is reminiscent of the '14-'16 domination years. The fact that so early in the season they look so good and their opponents look below par.

I was kind of expecting that. A lot of people tooted Ferrari to be the best car; but the car seems to have top speed and is not as good on the twisty bits, where the Mercs make a meal out of them. People kept banging on about the speed on the straights, but this is not a drag race. It is also so unreliable for today's standards.

I fear it is up to Bottas only to give Hamilton a headache.

I always figured the Mercedes was better than it made itself out to be in testing, tbh, and I never believed Wolff et al who claimed that Mercedes were struggling, but have to say I'm surprised how fragile the Ferrari is. And it's a bit of a surprise how challenged they appear to be in corners. In testing I seem to recall all the talk was of them being on rails, whereas since the start of the season they've looked anything but planted.

I'd love to see a proper fight at the front and it's a real shame that Ferrari seem to have botched the beginning of the season so far. The only sliver of hope I retain is that it appears that they have turned everything down for reliability concerns, which hopefully is something they can target as they know what the issue is. But their lack of cornering prowess is puzzling.

Still very early in the season of course but at this point you'd have to say Hamilton is in the hot seat. He's unquestionably better than Bottas and as long as Ferrari aren't bringing their "A" game then he can cruise quite comfortably to victory. Which makes it a less than scintillating season for the rest of us.


Yes, completely agree. Merc always hold their cards close to their chest in the testing, so I never believed Toto or Hamilton either. I just had hope for the Ferrari car. But as always, a rocket in straights won't go far, it also needs to turn!!

It's easy to say these things in hindsight, Mercedes said what they believed to be true, it's like Bahrain never happened were Ferrari had the fastest car.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:36 am 
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still too early to say IMO - LeClerk should have won Bahrain - and was impeded by decisions in Melbourne and certainly lost at least 4th if not 3rd in China due to Ferrari favouring Seb and poor strategising (if they'd pitted LeC. the lap after Vettel, he at worst would have been right behind Verstappen - and possibly ahead - but they left him out and stuffed up his race - bit like the one stop strategy stuffed up Dan Ric in Bahrain when a 2 stop strategy would have put him ahead of the Hulk and both Renaults in with a top 6 chance (assuming the electrical issues didn't happen).

The question is the development war - and if Honda do indeed get 20hp extra in Baku - they suddenly could pass both Merc and Ferrari - as they seem to have a better chassis than Ferrari and that sort of extra power might mean they have more power than the Merc


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:43 am 
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F1Oz wrote:
still too early to say IMO - LeClerk should have won Bahrain - and was impeded by decisions in Melbourne and certainly lost at least 4th if not 3rd in China due to Ferrari favouring Seb and poor strategising (if they'd pitted LeC. the lap after Vettel, he at worst would have been right behind Verstappen - and possibly ahead - but they left him out and stuffed up his race - bit like the one stop strategy stuffed up Dan Ric in Bahrain when a 2 stop strategy would have put him ahead of the Hulk and both Renaults in with a top 6 chance (assuming the electrical issues didn't happen).

The question is the development war - and if Honda do indeed get 20hp extra in Baku - they suddenly could pass both Merc and Ferrari - as they seem to have a better chassis than Ferrari and that sort of extra power might mean they have more power than the Merc

I would disagree Red Bull currently have the worse chassis of the top 3 teams.

Honda are too introduce their second engine already in Baku?

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:52 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
This start is reminiscent of the '14-'16 domination years. The fact that so early in the season they look so good and their opponents look below par.

I was kind of expecting that. A lot of people tooted Ferrari to be the best car; but the car seems to have top speed and is not as good on the twisty bits, where the Mercs make a meal out of them. People kept banging on about the speed on the straights, but this is not a drag race. It is also so unreliable for today's standards.

I fear it is up to Bottas only to give Hamilton a headache.

I always figured the Mercedes was better than it made itself out to be in testing, tbh, and I never believed Wolff et al who claimed that Mercedes were struggling, but have to say I'm surprised how fragile the Ferrari is. And it's a bit of a surprise how challenged they appear to be in corners. In testing I seem to recall all the talk was of them being on rails, whereas since the start of the season they've looked anything but planted.

I'd love to see a proper fight at the front and it's a real shame that Ferrari seem to have botched the beginning of the season so far. The only sliver of hope I retain is that it appears that they have turned everything down for reliability concerns, which hopefully is something they can target as they know what the issue is. But their lack of cornering prowess is puzzling.

Still very early in the season of course but at this point you'd have to say Hamilton is in the hot seat. He's unquestionably better than Bottas and as long as Ferrari aren't bringing their "A" game then he can cruise quite comfortably to victory. Which makes it a less than scintillating season for the rest of us.


Yes, completely agree. Merc always hold their cards close to their chest in the testing, so I never believed Toto or Hamilton either. I just had hope for the Ferrari car. But as always, a rocket in straights won't go far, it also needs to turn!!

It's easy to say these things in hindsight, Mercedes said what they believed to be true, it's like Bahrain never happened were Ferrari had the fastest car.

It's not about hindsight, Mercedes say these things pretty much every year in the pre season


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:00 pm 
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babararacucudada wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
This start is reminiscent of the '14-'16 domination years. The fact that so early in the season they look so good and their opponents look below par.

I was kind of expecting that. A lot of people tooted Ferrari to be the best car; but the car seems to have top speed and is not as good on the twisty bits, where the Mercs make a meal out of them. People kept banging on about the speed on the straights, but this is not a drag race. It is also so unreliable for today's standards.

I fear it is up to Bottas only to give Hamilton a headache.

I always figured the Mercedes was better than it made itself out to be in testing, tbh, and I never believed Wolff et al who claimed that Mercedes were struggling, but have to say I'm surprised how fragile the Ferrari is. And it's a bit of a surprise how challenged they appear to be in corners. In testing I seem to recall all the talk was of them being on rails, whereas since the start of the season they've looked anything but planted.

I'd love to see a proper fight at the front and it's a real shame that Ferrari seem to have botched the beginning of the season so far. The only sliver of hope I retain is that it appears that they have turned everything down for reliability concerns, which hopefully is something they can target as they know what the issue is. But their lack of cornering prowess is puzzling.

Still very early in the season of course but at this point you'd have to say Hamilton is in the hot seat. He's unquestionably better than Bottas and as long as Ferrari aren't bringing their "A" game then he can cruise quite comfortably to victory. Which makes it a less than scintillating season for the rest of us.


It's understandable that Mercedes would downplay their own position and play up Ferrari's. Mercedes have been winning both championships since 2014, so F1 needs to try to sell it that this year might be different.
Wolff and Hamilton benefit if it seems like it is more of a task to win it, and the commentators have to sell F1 as an entertaining event, so the hype is a necessary part of F1.

I'm not sure it is that necessary. You don't see the same coming from other teams so much, but every year Wolff constantly tries to play the underdog.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 3:02 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
babararacucudada wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
This start is reminiscent of the '14-'16 domination years. The fact that so early in the season they look so good and their opponents look below par.

I was kind of expecting that. A lot of people tooted Ferrari to be the best car; but the car seems to have top speed and is not as good on the twisty bits, where the Mercs make a meal out of them. People kept banging on about the speed on the straights, but this is not a drag race. It is also so unreliable for today's standards.

I fear it is up to Bottas only to give Hamilton a headache.

I always figured the Mercedes was better than it made itself out to be in testing, tbh, and I never believed Wolff et al who claimed that Mercedes were struggling, but have to say I'm surprised how fragile the Ferrari is. And it's a bit of a surprise how challenged they appear to be in corners. In testing I seem to recall all the talk was of them being on rails, whereas since the start of the season they've looked anything but planted.

I'd love to see a proper fight at the front and it's a real shame that Ferrari seem to have botched the beginning of the season so far. The only sliver of hope I retain is that it appears that they have turned everything down for reliability concerns, which hopefully is something they can target as they know what the issue is. But their lack of cornering prowess is puzzling.

Still very early in the season of course but at this point you'd have to say Hamilton is in the hot seat. He's unquestionably better than Bottas and as long as Ferrari aren't bringing their "A" game then he can cruise quite comfortably to victory. Which makes it a less than scintillating season for the rest of us.


It's understandable that Mercedes would downplay their own position and play up Ferrari's. Mercedes have been winning both championships since 2014, so F1 needs to try to sell it that this year might be different.
Wolff and Hamilton benefit if it seems like it is more of a task to win it, and the commentators have to sell F1 as an entertaining event, so the hype is a necessary part of F1.

I'm not sure it is that necessary. You don't see the same coming from other teams so much, but every year Wolff constantly tries to play the underdog.


Well - the other teams are underdogs, so they don't need to downplay.

It seems that the claim by the OP is already available as a 8/15 odds-on bet that Hamilton will win the World Championship this year.
That gives an idea of how predictable F1 looks.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:00 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
This start is reminiscent of the '14-'16 domination years. The fact that so early in the season they look so good and their opponents look below par.

I was kind of expecting that. A lot of people tooted Ferrari to be the best car; but the car seems to have top speed and is not as good on the twisty bits, where the Mercs make a meal out of them. People kept banging on about the speed on the straights, but this is not a drag race. It is also so unreliable for today's standards.

I fear it is up to Bottas only to give Hamilton a headache.

I always figured the Mercedes was better than it made itself out to be in testing, tbh, and I never believed Wolff et al who claimed that Mercedes were struggling, but have to say I'm surprised how fragile the Ferrari is. And it's a bit of a surprise how challenged they appear to be in corners. In testing I seem to recall all the talk was of them being on rails, whereas since the start of the season they've looked anything but planted.

I'd love to see a proper fight at the front and it's a real shame that Ferrari seem to have botched the beginning of the season so far. The only sliver of hope I retain is that it appears that they have turned everything down for reliability concerns, which hopefully is something they can target as they know what the issue is. But their lack of cornering prowess is puzzling.

Still very early in the season of course but at this point you'd have to say Hamilton is in the hot seat. He's unquestionably better than Bottas and as long as Ferrari aren't bringing their "A" game then he can cruise quite comfortably to victory. Which makes it a less than scintillating season for the rest of us.


Yes, completely agree. Merc always hold their cards close to their chest in the testing, so I never believed Toto or Hamilton either. I just had hope for the Ferrari car. But as always, a rocket in straights won't go far, it also needs to turn!!

It's easy to say these things in hindsight, Mercedes said what they believed to be true, it's like Bahrain never happened were Ferrari had the fastest car.

It's not about hindsight, Mercedes say these things pretty much every year in the pre season

What happened in Bahrain, did they allow Ferrari to be quicker?

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 4:16 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I always figured the Mercedes was better than it made itself out to be in testing, tbh, and I never believed Wolff et al who claimed that Mercedes were struggling, but have to say I'm surprised how fragile the Ferrari is. And it's a bit of a surprise how challenged they appear to be in corners. In testing I seem to recall all the talk was of them being on rails, whereas since the start of the season they've looked anything but planted.

I'd love to see a proper fight at the front and it's a real shame that Ferrari seem to have botched the beginning of the season so far. The only sliver of hope I retain is that it appears that they have turned everything down for reliability concerns, which hopefully is something they can target as they know what the issue is. But their lack of cornering prowess is puzzling.

Still very early in the season of course but at this point you'd have to say Hamilton is in the hot seat. He's unquestionably better than Bottas and as long as Ferrari aren't bringing their "A" game then he can cruise quite comfortably to victory. Which makes it a less than scintillating season for the rest of us.


Yes, completely agree. Merc always hold their cards close to their chest in the testing, so I never believed Toto or Hamilton either. I just had hope for the Ferrari car. But as always, a rocket in straights won't go far, it also needs to turn!!

It's easy to say these things in hindsight, Mercedes said what they believed to be true, it's like Bahrain never happened were Ferrari had the fastest car.

It's not about hindsight, Mercedes say these things pretty much every year in the pre season

What happened in Bahrain, did they allow Ferrari to be quicker?


Oh so funny...

Ok, what happened to Australia and China then, did they allow Mercedes to be quicker?

Totto was quoting Ferrari to be "as strong as a bear" and "half a second ahead of Mercedes" remember.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:54 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Yes, completely agree. Merc always hold their cards close to their chest in the testing, so I never believed Toto or Hamilton either. I just had hope for the Ferrari car. But as always, a rocket in straights won't go far, it also needs to turn!!

It's easy to say these things in hindsight, Mercedes said what they believed to be true, it's like Bahrain never happened were Ferrari had the fastest car.

It's not about hindsight, Mercedes say these things pretty much every year in the pre season

What happened in Bahrain, did they allow Ferrari to be quicker?


Oh so funny...

Ok, what happened to Australia and China then, did they allow Mercedes to be quicker?

Totto was quoting Ferrari to be "as strong as a bear" and "half a second ahead of Mercedes" remember.

Around Barcelona, ever thought the varied performance might be track specific?

Barcelona - Ferrari
Australia - Mercedes
Bahrain - Ferrari
China - Mercedes

3 races in it's 2-1 to Mercedes that's hardly dominance, if Leclerc had won in Bahrain does this conversation even exist?

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 12:37 am 
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This has to be the first year in the hybrid era that Mercedes have a genuine title contender in Ferrari and their drivers are running neck and neck in the points though? Throughout the Rosberg era the WCC and WDC was never under any threat from another team and for the last 2 years Bottas was clearly underperforming.

Maybe at some point in the season if the Ferrari can achieve Bahrain speed with 100% reliability Mercedes may regret not picking a #1 driver as early as Ferrari has. As a Mercedes fan I'm actually glad they've picked Vettel, I'd be much more worried about LeClerc being their chosen one should the car regain its competitiveness.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 2:58 am 
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I still think it's far too early to tell.

I suspect that Ferrari will dominate at Spain, Canada, France, Austria, Italy circuits.

Ferrari will have a very tiny margin @ Russia and Spa.

They'll be evenly matched in Germany, UK, Japan and Mexico.

Mercedes will be stronger in Monaco,Hungary, Singapore, USA, Brasil & Abu Dhabi (although RBR will probably win in Monaco, since engine HP doesn't really make a difference and it has never really been a good hunting ground for Mercedes).

It's so early in the season that all talks of a white wash in the WDC and WCC are just that - talk.

By the Summer break, we'll have a really good idea and I strongly suspect that both the WDC and WCC will be much closer.

I also suspect that Leclerc will emerge as the #1 @ Ferrari (he is, easily better than Vettel imho).


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:45 am 
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TedStriker wrote:
This has to be the first year in the hybrid era that Mercedes have a genuine title contender in Ferrari and their drivers are running neck and neck in the points though? Throughout the Rosberg era the WCC and WDC was never under any threat from another team and for the last 2 years Bottas was clearly underperforming.

Maybe at some point in the season if the Ferrari can achieve Bahrain speed with 100% reliability Mercedes may regret not picking a #1 driver as early as Ferrari has. As a Mercedes fan I'm actually glad they've picked Vettel, I'd be much more worried about LeClerc being their chosen one should the car regain its competitiveness.

I'd say at this stage last year Ferrari looked to be a much closer contender than this year, so can't really agree with your first sentence. The gap between Bottas and Hamilton was almost identical at this time last year, while things were much, much closer in the WCC. Or are you trying to say it's the Ferrari drivers who are neck and neck? It's a bit ambiguous?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:21 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's easy to say these things in hindsight, Mercedes said what they believed to be true, it's like Bahrain never happened were Ferrari had the fastest car.

It's not about hindsight, Mercedes say these things pretty much every year in the pre season

What happened in Bahrain, did they allow Ferrari to be quicker?


Oh so funny...

Ok, what happened to Australia and China then, did they allow Mercedes to be quicker?

Totto was quoting Ferrari to be "as strong as a bear" and "half a second ahead of Mercedes" remember.

Around Barcelona, ever thought the varied performance might be track specific?

Barcelona - Ferrari
Australia - Mercedes
Bahrain - Ferrari
China - Mercedes

3 races in it's 2-1 to Mercedes that's hardly dominance, if Leclerc had won in Bahrain does this conversation even exist?


Typical knee jerk reaction from you when you see someone mentioning Hamilton or Merc. It's tiring.

No one said dominance, just that the Mercs are not as bad as they made it look in the pre season test, which is their normal model really. Is this clear enough?


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:07 am 
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TedStriker wrote:
This has to be the first year in the hybrid era that Mercedes have a genuine title contender in Ferrari and their drivers are running neck and neck in the points though? Throughout the Rosberg era the WCC and WDC was never under any threat from another team and for the last 2 years Bottas was clearly underperforming.

Maybe at some point in the season if the Ferrari can achieve Bahrain speed with 100% reliability Mercedes may regret not picking a #1 driver as early as Ferrari has. As a Mercedes fan I'm actually glad they've picked Vettel, I'd be much more worried about LeClerc being their chosen one should the car regain its competitiveness.

I'm not sure you watched 2017 and 2018? :?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:16 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
It's not about hindsight, Mercedes say these things pretty much every year in the pre season

What happened in Bahrain, did they allow Ferrari to be quicker?


Oh so funny...

Ok, what happened to Australia and China then, did they allow Mercedes to be quicker?

Totto was quoting Ferrari to be "as strong as a bear" and "half a second ahead of Mercedes" remember.

Around Barcelona, ever thought the varied performance might be track specific?

Barcelona - Ferrari
Australia - Mercedes
Bahrain - Ferrari
China - Mercedes

3 races in it's 2-1 to Mercedes that's hardly dominance, if Leclerc had won in Bahrain does this conversation even exist?


Typical knee jerk reaction from you when you see someone mentioning Hamilton or Merc. It's tiring.

No one said dominance, just that the Mercs are not as bad as they made it look in the pre season test, which is their normal model really. Is this clear enough?

The dominance should not have been said and that then seems to have given you the opportunity to ignore what I actually posted about the differences maybe track specific, Ferrari may still be the best car around Barcelona?

In terms of knee jerk reactions that's what I'm seeing here because Mercedes won in China, after Bahrain it was all about Ferrari winning in China.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 1:19 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
This start is reminiscent of the '14-'16 domination years. The fact that so early in the season they look so good and their opponents look below par.

I was kind of expecting that. A lot of people tooted Ferrari to be the best car; but the car seems to have top speed and is not as good on the twisty bits, where the Mercs make a meal out of them. People kept banging on about the speed on the straights, but this is not a drag race. It is also so unreliable for today's standards.

I fear it is up to Bottas only to give Hamilton a headache.

I always figured the Mercedes was better than it made itself out to be in testing, tbh, and I never believed Wolff et al who claimed that Mercedes were struggling, but have to say I'm surprised how fragile the Ferrari is. And it's a bit of a surprise how challenged they appear to be in corners. In testing I seem to recall all the talk was of them being on rails, whereas since the start of the season they've looked anything but planted.

I'd love to see a proper fight at the front and it's a real shame that Ferrari seem to have botched the beginning of the season so far. The only sliver of hope I retain is that it appears that they have turned everything down for reliability concerns, which hopefully is something they can target as they know what the issue is. But their lack of cornering prowess is puzzling.

Still very early in the season of course but at this point you'd have to say Hamilton is in the hot seat. He's unquestionably better than Bottas and as long as Ferrari aren't bringing their "A" game then he can cruise quite comfortably to victory. Which makes it a less than scintillating season for the rest of us.


Yes, completely agree. Merc always hold their cards close to their chest in the testing, so I never believed Toto or Hamilton either. I just had hope for the Ferrari car. But as always, a rocket in straights won't go far, it also needs to turn!!

It's easy to say these things in hindsight, Mercedes said what they believed to be true, it's like Bahrain never happened were Ferrari had the fastest car.

It's not about hindsight, Mercedes say these things pretty much every year in the pre season


Yeah, and it is better to say in pre-season ''It's going to be a tough fight and we aren't sure where we are at'' and then end up crushing your rivals when you get to Melbourne, than if you were to say ''We are convinced we are the best and will walk this championship'' only to get beaten when the championship actually starts. You will have egg on your face with the latter option, but with the former option you just end up looking even more impressive so it is a no-brainer option to use the former option with your comments; hence you can only take the comments with a pinch of salt.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 4:25 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I always figured the Mercedes was better than it made itself out to be in testing, tbh, and I never believed Wolff et al who claimed that Mercedes were struggling, but have to say I'm surprised how fragile the Ferrari is. And it's a bit of a surprise how challenged they appear to be in corners. In testing I seem to recall all the talk was of them being on rails, whereas since the start of the season they've looked anything but planted.

I'd love to see a proper fight at the front and it's a real shame that Ferrari seem to have botched the beginning of the season so far. The only sliver of hope I retain is that it appears that they have turned everything down for reliability concerns, which hopefully is something they can target as they know what the issue is. But their lack of cornering prowess is puzzling.

Still very early in the season of course but at this point you'd have to say Hamilton is in the hot seat. He's unquestionably better than Bottas and as long as Ferrari aren't bringing their "A" game then he can cruise quite comfortably to victory. Which makes it a less than scintillating season for the rest of us.


Yes, completely agree. Merc always hold their cards close to their chest in the testing, so I never believed Toto or Hamilton either. I just had hope for the Ferrari car. But as always, a rocket in straights won't go far, it also needs to turn!!

It's easy to say these things in hindsight, Mercedes said what they believed to be true, it's like Bahrain never happened were Ferrari had the fastest car.

It's not about hindsight, Mercedes say these things pretty much every year in the pre season


Yeah, and it is better to say in pre-season ''It's going to be a tough fight and we aren't sure where we are at'' and then end up crushing your rivals when you get to Melbourne, than if you were to say ''We are convinced we are the best and will walk this championship'' only to get beaten when the championship actually starts. You will have egg on your face with the latter option, but with the former option you just end up looking even more impressive so it is a no-brainer option to use the former option with your comments; hence you can only take the comments with a pinch of salt.

So what happened in Bahrain?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:24 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

Yeah, and it is better to say in pre-season ''It's going to be a tough fight and we aren't sure where we are at'' and then end up crushing your rivals when you get to Melbourne, than if you were to say ''We are convinced we are the best and will walk this championship'' only to get beaten when the championship actually starts. You will have egg on your face with the latter option, but with the former option you just end up looking even more impressive so it is a no-brainer option to use the former option with your comments; hence you can only take the comments with a pinch of salt.

So what happened in Bahrain?


I think you're missing the point. In pre-season Mercedes didn't know if they were miles faster than Ferrari, they didn't know if they were slightly faster, they didn't know if they were slightly slower and they didn't know if they were way slower. This is because of sandbagging and running different programs etc. The point is that all the pre-season comments from Toto and Lewis are completely meaningless because they are all made with the idea to not come across too cocky and instead show some humility because it will work out better for them no matter what the situation actually turns out like once the season gets underway.

In reality, (at least from the first three races combined), Mercedes have turned out slightly faster than Ferrari, but this outcome is irrelevant to the reasoning being employed by their pre-season comments which were instead made under the pretence that it is better to under-promise and over-deliver than to over-promise and under-deliver.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 7:27 pm 
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I think he has a pretty smooth and easy path to the championship. Ferrari just cant get it right.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:15 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:

Yeah, and it is better to say in pre-season ''It's going to be a tough fight and we aren't sure where we are at'' and then end up crushing your rivals when you get to Melbourne, than if you were to say ''We are convinced we are the best and will walk this championship'' only to get beaten when the championship actually starts. You will have egg on your face with the latter option, but with the former option you just end up looking even more impressive so it is a no-brainer option to use the former option with your comments; hence you can only take the comments with a pinch of salt.

So what happened in Bahrain?


I think you're missing the point. In pre-season Mercedes didn't know if they were miles faster than Ferrari, they didn't know if they were slightly faster, they didn't know if they were slightly slower and they didn't know if they were way slower. This is because of sandbagging and running different programs etc. The point is that all the pre-season comments from Toto and Lewis are completely meaningless because they are all made with the idea to not come across too cocky and instead show some humility because it will work out better for them no matter what the situation actually turns out like once the season gets underway.

In reality, (at least from the first three races combined), Mercedes have turned out slightly faster than Ferrari, but this outcome is irrelevant to the reasoning being employed by their pre-season comments which were instead made under the pretence that it is better to under-promise and over-deliver than to over-promise and under-deliver.

It seems best to basically believe they were lying, what happened in Bahrain means what happened in Barcelona testing makes what they were saying believable, if Mercedes had dominated the first 3 races then you have a point, I've seen it being said by journalists that performance will ebb and flow depending on the track.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 10:37 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
In reality, (at least from the first three races combined), Mercedes have turned out slightly faster than Ferrari, but this outcome is irrelevant to the reasoning being employed by their pre-season comments which were instead made under the pretence that it is better to under-promise and over-deliver than to over-promise and under-deliver.

This is completely true, aside from the quibble that I question your use of 'pretense' here. A pretense would imply that it isn't their real reason, and I think it was. Every team under-promises in testing; both Ferrari and Mercedes said they weren't ahead and you shouldn't believe any advantage they seemed to have in testing, so one of them was bound to be wrong. That doesn't mean they were lying, they were just 'managing expectations' as they call it in the industry.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 11:04 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
In reality, (at least from the first three races combined), Mercedes have turned out slightly faster than Ferrari, but this outcome is irrelevant to the reasoning being employed by their pre-season comments which were instead made under the pretence that it is better to under-promise and over-deliver than to over-promise and under-deliver.

This is completely true, aside from the quibble that I question your use of 'pretense' here. A pretense would imply that it isn't their real reason, and I think it was. Every team under-promises in testing; both Ferrari and Mercedes said they weren't ahead and you shouldn't believe any advantage they seemed to have in testing, so one of them was bound to be wrong. That doesn't mean they were lying, they were just 'managing expectations' as they call it in the industry.


I am not the one who said they were lying...

Read all the posts again, it is someone else who is accusing them of lying.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 6:25 am 
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TedStriker wrote:
This has to be the first year in the hybrid era that Mercedes have a genuine title contender in Ferrari and their drivers are running neck and neck in the points though? Throughout the Rosberg era the WCC and WDC was never under any threat from another team and for the last 2 years Bottas was clearly underperforming.

Maybe at some point in the season if the Ferrari can achieve Bahrain speed with 100% reliability Mercedes may regret not picking a #1 driver as early as Ferrari has. As a Mercedes fan I'm actually glad they've picked Vettel, I'd be much more worried about LeClerc being their chosen one should the car regain its competitiveness.


2017? 2018?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:00 am 
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Called it.

What's gonna be new for 2020, I haven't kept up? Probably not enough to deny Hamilton number 7 next year.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:34 pm 
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The big question now is who will start this type of thread for 2020 first


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:40 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
The big question now is who will start this type of thread for 2020 first


I shudder to make such a risky prediction!! :lol:

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