planetf1.com

It is currently Sun Aug 18, 2019 12:44 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 6:00 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15568
MB-BOB wrote:
According to the World Bank, Vietnam's Gross Domestic Product (GDP) ranks #44 among nations, one rank below Bangladesh, and just 4 spots ahead of bankrupt Greece 8O

If Vietnam were to double it's economy, it would still rank behind Thailand (#26).

Vietnam would have to increase its GDP 700% to fall just behind S. Korea (and its failed GP).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... P_(nominal)

IMO, the sources in this link offer about 70%-90% of the information you need to know. Of course, some will say the World Bank, the Int'l Monetary Fund and the United Nations sources cited are "ignorant" too. :lol:


And that is helped by having a large population. In terms of per capita it's in the 130's. For context the next poorest F1 hosting countries are Azerbaijan (Around 100th) and Brazil (73rd).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon May 31, 2010 10:02 am
Posts: 1950
Location: Far side of Koozebane
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Chase Carey said that among the future F1 drivers, hopefully one of them is from Vietnam (perhaps to justify his decision of taking F1 to Vietnam).
https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/formula-1/news/carey-now-wants-vietnamese-f1-driver_340903.html

If Liberty Media can't get an American driver into F1 despite it's rich abundance of drivers, what's the odds of getting a Vietnamese driver into F1 bearing in mind I believe currently they have no professional drivers?


Can't see any F1 drivers on the horizon but I reckon i've uncovered a potential Moto GP champ in the waiting.

From the video posted earlier.

At the 2:01 mark. Check out the dude (or dudette) on the bike zipping around the near edge of the roundabout.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8vGfM9BZsU

That's some sweet high speed bike control right there.

_________________
Races since last non RB, Merc, Ferrari winner (After Hungary- 19) - 130 & counting.( Last win, Lotus, 17/3/13)

Non RB, Merc, Ferrari podiums won in Hybrid era - 336 trophies available, 24 won

2017 WCC CPTTC - Jalopy Racing (Herb & Me)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 2:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:04 am
Posts: 1885
Its hypocritical of F1 community to complain about the developing countries when F1 itself does not pay any taxes in most of the countries it holds races and it is a factor as to why we are losing so many old races. We all know that and we still support the F1.
These countries have large populations. And even though average worker on street probably cannot afford the ticket price, there are many who can. It was same case with Indian GP.

It wasnt cancelled for lack of revenue but because F1 didnt get its tax breaks after govt change and refused to pay local tax on revenue generated by the FOM and teams in the country from the F1 race and events organised during that period.
The whole argument that developing countries shouldnt be hosting F1 reeks of extreme bias and lack of understanding. These are same people who bash these countries for having space programs or spending on military hardware or non critical scientific research and development.
That is not how world works. Just seeing and hearing Ferrari Daytona come to life as a kid was enough to light fire in my heart about sports cars and eventually motor racing. That was the moment. I still cant afford a Ferrari, does not mean I dont love the sport or racing in general.
I do have my reservations about F1 going to countries with unitary governments. But if that is to be corrected, why dont we first stop going to China or Bahrain or Abu Dhabhi or Baku or Singapore GP? All these GPs are hosted by countries with Unitary govts or monarchs with varying range of suppression of basic human rights to entire or part of population.
But then we are getting into a rabbit hole that will go so deep that it will totally derail the topic.

As long as we are turning blind eye to others, I have no problems to see F1 go to Vietnam. I would love to see them back in India at either same Buddh International Circuit track with slight layout change or a street circuit in one of many bustling mega cities in the country.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
funkymonkey wrote:
Its hypocritical of F1 community to complain about the developing countries when F1 itself does not pay any taxes in most of the countries it holds races and it is a factor as to why we are losing so many old races. We all know that and we still support the F1.
These countries have large populations. And even though average worker on street probably cannot afford the ticket price, there are many who can. It was same case with Indian GP.

It wasnt cancelled for lack of revenue but because F1 didnt get its tax breaks after govt change and refused to pay local tax on revenue generated by the FOM and teams in the country from the F1 race and events organised during that period.
The whole argument that developing countries shouldnt be hosting F1 reeks of extreme bias and lack of understanding. These are same people who bash these countries for having space programs or spending on military hardware or non critical scientific research and development.
That is not how world works. Just seeing and hearing Ferrari Daytona come to life as a kid was enough to light fire in my heart about sports cars and eventually motor racing. That was the moment. I still cant afford a Ferrari, does not mean I dont love the sport or racing in general.
I do have my reservations about F1 going to countries with unitary governments. But if that is to be corrected, why dont we first stop going to China or Bahrain or Abu Dhabhi or Baku or Singapore GP? All these GPs are hosted by countries with Unitary govts or monarchs with varying range of suppression of basic human rights to entire or part of population.
But then we are getting into a rabbit hole that will go so deep that it will totally derail the topic.

As long as we are turning blind eye to others, I have no problems to see F1 go to Vietnam. I would love to see them back in India at either same Buddh International Circuit track with slight layout change or a street circuit in one of many bustling mega cities in the country.

I think it's slightly more nuanced than that, tbh. F1's agreement with the Jaypee Group was that Jaypee would pay the taxes, but the Indian government stepped in and, for reasons which aren't entirely clear to me, prevented Jaypee from paying the fees. They then blocked F1 from receiving funds from a bank guarantee, so F1 was left in a situation where they weren't receiving money from past agreements and were having to decide on a new contract not knowing whether they would get any money from that. It's not all big bad F1


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 8:04 am
Posts: 1885
Zoue wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
Its hypocritical of F1 community to complain about the developing countries when F1 itself does not pay any taxes in most of the countries it holds races and it is a factor as to why we are losing so many old races. We all know that and we still support the F1.
These countries have large populations. And even though average worker on street probably cannot afford the ticket price, there are many who can. It was same case with Indian GP.

It wasnt cancelled for lack of revenue but because F1 didnt get its tax breaks after govt change and refused to pay local tax on revenue generated by the FOM and teams in the country from the F1 race and events organised during that period.
The whole argument that developing countries shouldnt be hosting F1 reeks of extreme bias and lack of understanding. These are same people who bash these countries for having space programs or spending on military hardware or non critical scientific research and development.
That is not how world works. Just seeing and hearing Ferrari Daytona come to life as a kid was enough to light fire in my heart about sports cars and eventually motor racing. That was the moment. I still cant afford a Ferrari, does not mean I dont love the sport or racing in general.
I do have my reservations about F1 going to countries with unitary governments. But if that is to be corrected, why dont we first stop going to China or Bahrain or Abu Dhabhi or Baku or Singapore GP? All these GPs are hosted by countries with Unitary govts or monarchs with varying range of suppression of basic human rights to entire or part of population.
But then we are getting into a rabbit hole that will go so deep that it will totally derail the topic.

As long as we are turning blind eye to others, I have no problems to see F1 go to Vietnam. I would love to see them back in India at either same Buddh International Circuit track with slight layout change or a street circuit in one of many bustling mega cities in the country.

I think it's slightly more nuanced than that, tbh. F1's agreement with the Jaypee Group was that Jaypee would pay the taxes, but the Indian government stepped in and, for reasons which aren't entirely clear to me, prevented Jaypee from paying the fees. They then blocked F1 from receiving funds from a bank guarantee, so F1 was left in a situation where they weren't receiving money from past agreements and were having to decide on a new contract not knowing whether they would get any money from that. It's not all big bad F1



There was good reason for that. There is no law which allows exemption of tax for F1 / FOM. India and UK have their own bilateral tax treaty where UK firms who have taxable income from India will be taxed in India and wont be double taxed in UK. So FOM in those days had to pay their taxes in India themselves for all income generated here. This includes the payment they received from Jaypee groups and all sponsors from India.

The basic expectation that Fees should be paid tax free was and is still wrong. FOM runs the sport as business. When that is the case. Pay the taxes in all countries for the income generated. To expect otherwise is nothing but greed. Most of other expenses like circuit facilities, local transportation, stay, security etc are already taken care of by the promoters. When that is the case. The money that FOM charges for use of F1 brand and race fees from the promoters if taxed should be paid by them. There is no provision for someone else to foot the bill as they cannot declare that money as expense.
These laws were not arbitrarily made for F1. These existed when the F1 race deal was signed and again held up in supreme court. All customs duty that was collected on incoming cars and parts were refunded later as the parts where again taken out of country. The taxes demanded were only on the revenue generated locally. Demanding the money to be paid by the entity which owes the taxes is not unreasonable.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:48 pm
Posts: 3225
Location: UK
mikeyg123 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
According to the World Bank, Vietnam's Gross Domestic Product (GDP) ranks #44 among nations, one rank below Bangladesh, and just 4 spots ahead of bankrupt Greece 8O

If Vietnam were to double it's economy, it would still rank behind Thailand (#26).

Vietnam would have to increase its GDP 700% to fall just behind S. Korea (and its failed GP).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_c ... P_(nominal)

IMO, the sources in this link offer about 70%-90% of the information you need to know. Of course, some will say the World Bank, the Int'l Monetary Fund and the United Nations sources cited are "ignorant" too. :lol:


And that is helped by having a large population. In terms of per capita it's in the 130's. For context the next poorest F1 hosting countries are Azerbaijan (Around 100th) and Brazil (73rd).

Large populations rarely flatter the GDP per capita metric. Brazil ranks below those economic powerhouses of Lebanon, Bulgaria and Equatorial Guinea. Vietnam has 95 million people, you only need about 0.1% of them to take interest and have enough disposable cash to make this event work.

Vietnam is the 9th fastest growing economy in the world (and neighbouring Cambodia, Myanmar and Laos fill the three spots above them), and Hanoi is also closer to a large portion of China than Shanghai is. The whole Asia-Pacific region is growing to become the epicentre of the global economy (helped by containing about half the world's population), and it makes sense for F1 to establish a greater presence there, particularly when its traditional fanbase in Europe is dwindling.

https://www.focus-economics.com/blog/fa ... -the-world


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:19 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 25158
funkymonkey wrote:
Zoue wrote:
funkymonkey wrote:
Its hypocritical of F1 community to complain about the developing countries when F1 itself does not pay any taxes in most of the countries it holds races and it is a factor as to why we are losing so many old races. We all know that and we still support the F1.
These countries have large populations. And even though average worker on street probably cannot afford the ticket price, there are many who can. It was same case with Indian GP.

It wasnt cancelled for lack of revenue but because F1 didnt get its tax breaks after govt change and refused to pay local tax on revenue generated by the FOM and teams in the country from the F1 race and events organised during that period.
The whole argument that developing countries shouldnt be hosting F1 reeks of extreme bias and lack of understanding. These are same people who bash these countries for having space programs or spending on military hardware or non critical scientific research and development.
That is not how world works. Just seeing and hearing Ferrari Daytona come to life as a kid was enough to light fire in my heart about sports cars and eventually motor racing. That was the moment. I still cant afford a Ferrari, does not mean I dont love the sport or racing in general.
I do have my reservations about F1 going to countries with unitary governments. But if that is to be corrected, why dont we first stop going to China or Bahrain or Abu Dhabhi or Baku or Singapore GP? All these GPs are hosted by countries with Unitary govts or monarchs with varying range of suppression of basic human rights to entire or part of population.
But then we are getting into a rabbit hole that will go so deep that it will totally derail the topic.

As long as we are turning blind eye to others, I have no problems to see F1 go to Vietnam. I would love to see them back in India at either same Buddh International Circuit track with slight layout change or a street circuit in one of many bustling mega cities in the country.

I think it's slightly more nuanced than that, tbh. F1's agreement with the Jaypee Group was that Jaypee would pay the taxes, but the Indian government stepped in and, for reasons which aren't entirely clear to me, prevented Jaypee from paying the fees. They then blocked F1 from receiving funds from a bank guarantee, so F1 was left in a situation where they weren't receiving money from past agreements and were having to decide on a new contract not knowing whether they would get any money from that. It's not all big bad F1



There was good reason for that. There is no law which allows exemption of tax for F1 / FOM. India and UK have their own bilateral tax treaty where UK firms who have taxable income from India will be taxed in India and wont be double taxed in UK. So FOM in those days had to pay their taxes in India themselves for all income generated here. This includes the payment they received from Jaypee groups and all sponsors from India.

The basic expectation that Fees should be paid tax free was and is still wrong. FOM runs the sport as business. When that is the case. Pay the taxes in all countries for the income generated. To expect otherwise is nothing but greed. Most of other expenses like circuit facilities, local transportation, stay, security etc are already taken care of by the promoters. When that is the case. The money that FOM charges for use of F1 brand and race fees from the promoters if taxed should be paid by them. There is no provision for someone else to foot the bill as they cannot declare that money as expense.
These laws were not arbitrarily made for F1. These existed when the F1 race deal was signed and again held up in supreme court. All customs duty that was collected on incoming cars and parts were refunded later as the parts where again taken out of country. The taxes demanded were only on the revenue generated locally. Demanding the money to be paid by the entity which owes the taxes is not unreasonable.

They weren’t asking to be exempt, though, they negotiated the fee on the basis that Jaypee would pay the taxes. Otherwise presumably the fees would have been higher if it had to include taxes? Still not clear why that arrangement wasn’t allowed to stand, given that Jaypee agreed to it


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:40 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:05 pm
Posts: 323
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
Of course, Vietnam -- as a communist country -- can always pull a page from the Fidel Castro playbook, nationalising all the proceeds from the race. Chase Carey would be apoplectic at that.

_________________
Life-Long F1 Fan from 1965 -- More than 575 Grand Prix recorded since 1982 (all but 3), and counting...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:07 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:00 am
Posts: 594
Location: Running wide at Bergwerk
MB-BOB wrote:
Of course, Vietnam -- as a communist country -- can always pull a page from the Fidel Castro playbook, nationalising all the proceeds from the race. Chase Carey would be apoplectic at that.

No one is taking the bait. Your fear of communism is not shared by people outside your American babyboomer echo chamber.

_________________
"Guys I'm coming in, I'm having too much grip"
- Chanoch Nissany


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:27 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:05 pm
Posts: 323
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
jono794 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Of course, Vietnam -- as a communist country -- can always pull a page from the Fidel Castro playbook, nationalising all the proceeds from the race. Chase Carey would be apoplectic at that.

No one is taking the bait. Your fear of communism is not shared by people outside your American babyboomer echo chamber.

It's only been 80 minutes, dude.

And where the frack is "Bergwerk" exactly? Why don't you tell us where you live, so we can dream up insults for you? :smug:

_________________
Life-Long F1 Fan from 1965 -- More than 575 Grand Prix recorded since 1982 (all but 3), and counting...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:00 am
Posts: 594
Location: Running wide at Bergwerk
MB-BOB wrote:
jono794 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Of course, Vietnam -- as a communist country -- can always pull a page from the Fidel Castro playbook, nationalising all the proceeds from the race. Chase Carey would be apoplectic at that.

No one is taking the bait. Your fear of communism is not shared by people outside your American babyboomer echo chamber.

It's only been 80 minutes, dude.

And where the frack is "Bergwerk" exactly? Why don't you tell us where you live, so we can dream up insults for you? :smug:

Your only contributions to this thread are to try and stir up some kind of racist and anti-communist sentiment towards Vietnam and I think it's pretty low.

Bergwerk is a corner on the Nordschleife.

_________________
"Guys I'm coming in, I'm having too much grip"
- Chanoch Nissany


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2017 7:05 pm
Posts: 323
Location: Dallas, TX, USA
jono794 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
jono794 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Of course, Vietnam -- as a communist country -- can always pull a page from the Fidel Castro playbook, nationalising all the proceeds from the race. Chase Carey would be apoplectic at that.

No one is taking the bait. Your fear of communism is not shared by people outside your American babyboomer echo chamber.

It's only been 80 minutes, dude.

And where the frack is "Bergwerk" exactly? Why don't you tell us where you live, so we can dream up insults for you? :smug:

Your only contributions to this thread are to try and stir up some kind of racist and anti-communist sentiment towards Vietnam and I think it's pretty low.

Bergwerk is a corner on the Nordschleife.
Ah, then you should be happy to know that I own and drive three of your country's finest automobiles. We capitalist Americans are only too happy to prop up your economy.

I'm now retired from working in middle management for 3, Fortune 50 multinational Corporations. You would know each of them instantly.

You should also know that most of the Koreans, Chinese, Japanese and Vietnamese I worked with consider you and me to be "Untermensch." How do I know this? Because they don't apologize for telling you so to your face. Talk about racism?

Hosting a GP means Vietnam will increase it's annual GDP by 25% in a single weekend (provided that we Untermensch show up to watch it in person.) But I think I will watch this venue crash and burn after 1-2 years from afar, thanks.

Done with this silliness. Moving on...

_________________
Life-Long F1 Fan from 1965 -- More than 575 Grand Prix recorded since 1982 (all but 3), and counting...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:00 am
Posts: 594
Location: Running wide at Bergwerk
MB-BOB wrote:
jono794 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
jono794 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Of course, Vietnam -- as a communist country -- can always pull a page from the Fidel Castro playbook, nationalising all the proceeds from the race. Chase Carey would be apoplectic at that.

No one is taking the bait. Your fear of communism is not shared by people outside your American babyboomer echo chamber.

It's only been 80 minutes, dude.

And where the frack is "Bergwerk" exactly? Why don't you tell us where you live, so we can dream up insults for you? :smug:

Your only contributions to this thread are to try and stir up some kind of racist and anti-communist sentiment towards Vietnam and I think it's pretty low.

Bergwerk is a corner on the Nordschleife.
Ah, then you should be happy to know that I own and drive three of your country's finest automobiles. We capitalist Americans are only too happy to prop up your economy.

I'm now retired from working in middle management for 3, Fortune 50 multinational Corporations. You would know each of them instantly.

You should also know that most of the Koreans, Chinese, Japanese and Vietnamese I worked with consider you and me to be "Untermensch." How do I know this? Because they don't apologize for telling you so to your face. Talk about racism?

Hosting a GP means Vietnam will increase it's annual GDP by 25% in a single weekend (provided that we Untermensch show up to watch it in person.) But I think I will watch this venue crash and burn after 1-2 years from afar, thanks.

Done with this silliness. Moving on...

Cool story, I'm not German though I'm Australian.

_________________
"Guys I'm coming in, I'm having too much grip"
- Chanoch Nissany


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 8:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 10248
Location: Ireland
MB-BOB wrote:
By extension, the fascination with cars in SE Asia is the same. Watch the video, and you will see that the average, sporty, two-seater in Vietnam is a 30 year-old scooter. At best, one can hope to upgrade someday to one of those nifty, 15-year old, 3-wheel Tuk Tuks. One with a roof is a bonus.

I bet you don't know why this is the case

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 10248
Location: Ireland
MB-BOB wrote:
jono794 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
jono794 wrote:
MB-BOB wrote:
Of course, Vietnam -- as a communist country -- can always pull a page from the Fidel Castro playbook, nationalising all the proceeds from the race. Chase Carey would be apoplectic at that.

No one is taking the bait. Your fear of communism is not shared by people outside your American babyboomer echo chamber.

It's only been 80 minutes, dude.

And where the frack is "Bergwerk" exactly? Why don't you tell us where you live, so we can dream up insults for you? :smug:

Your only contributions to this thread are to try and stir up some kind of racist and anti-communist sentiment towards Vietnam and I think it's pretty low.

Bergwerk is a corner on the Nordschleife.
Ah, then you should be happy to know that I own and drive three of your country's finest automobiles. We capitalist Americans are only too happy to prop up your economy.

I'm now retired from working in middle management for 3, Fortune 50 multinational Corporations. You would know each of them instantly.

You should also know that most of the Koreans, Chinese, Japanese and Vietnamese I worked with consider you and me to be "Untermensch." How do I know this? Because they don't apologize for telling you so to your face. Talk about racism?

Hosting a GP means Vietnam will increase it's annual GDP by 25% in a single weekend (provided that we Untermensch show up to watch it in person.) But I think I will watch this venue crash and burn after 1-2 years from afar, thanks.

Done with this silliness. Moving on...

The smell of Yank off this post. Nobody cares what you drive or what you worked at. That bubble you live in where you're always trying to outdo your neighbour by having a bigger house, a bigger car, buying your wife bigger breasts - it is of no significance to anybody outside that little bubble where you're all competing against each other.
You have a nice car? Cool. Don't drive it recklessly. Thanks.

Middle management... whoop-dee-do :uhoh: My life is headed toward middle management in a big American multinational and it's like... it'll be ok I guess. Not exactly something to spend a life striving for but it will be comfortable

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 25, 2019 12:11 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 9:21 am
Posts: 3753
I locked this thread briefly but on reflection have changed my mind. The cause of the problems has been weeded out. Please keep on topic now, and do not further attempt to engage MB-BOB.

_________________
AlienTurnedHuman wrote:
Eurytus probably thought he was God. At least until he was banned. Which means if he was God, it makes me very scared of PF1-Mod.

Please report forum problems to us, via PM/Feedback Thread. Screenshots will also help.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Apr 28, 2019 5:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 12:46 pm
Posts: 768
Location: McKinney, TX
:lol: :lol:

Enjoyed this thread immensely. Keep engaging, Mr. Bob.

_________________
I'd rather die than be overtaken.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group