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Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?
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Author:  wire2004 [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

What did the last formula 1 driver get for punching a felĺow formula 1 driver?

Author:  Siao7 [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Max's conduct in the weigh in room was definitely inexcusable, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehill, it was aggressive but wasn't violent, nor was it an attempt to cause harm, it was essentially someone trying to exert dominance on another.

Max probably knows inside himself that he should have just let Ocon through (if he doesn't then he's a fool) but because he knows Ocon was more at fault for the collision he can cling to the moral superiority argument when talking about it, or presenting his position on it. The problem is, having a post race shoving match immediately undermines that, because now the discussion has shifted to being about that as well. If he'd have left it at some Liberty censored radio messages, all we'd be talking about is the collision - for which most people are putting the blame with Ocon.

Ultimately, if Vettel didn't receive anything significant for driving into Hamilton with his car, then it's difficult to justify any more than these community service days for Max. It's proportionate as well, and to be honest, Max did himself more damage to his image with his actions than any punishment as it just continues to present himself as a hot headed, self entitled youngster who needs to grow up a lot.


No, the problem is that if Ocon didn't defuse the situation (you need great composure not to retaliate and escalate things when someone is swearing at you in your face and pushing you) then Max would have ended up in big trouble. There could have been fisticuffs and that wouldn't have ended well. Couple of years ago two drivers got banned in F3 for that, didn't they? Where would that leave him?

And no, it's not a mountain-molehill scenario. I can't imagine how you can say this the moment it gets physical in front of the cameras? It is something that should not be tolerated. Hamilton was blasting Vettel for giving kids a bad example after Baku last year, you think that getting physical is a good example? Good grief. Yes it can happen, we're all human after all, but don't brush it under the carpet, it should be dealt with. More appropriately than the slap on the hand that he got really.

I think Max needs to control his temper before he punches someone and gets shown the door. Or worse, if he punches the wrong person...

Author:  angrypirate [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Hes probably getting a pat on the back behind the scenes from Liberty media for doing something controversial which in time will prove good for the ratings. Next move from Liberty will probably be to issue all drives with a shotgun loaded with 1 round for the entire race. Beats banana skins and magic mushrooms hands down....

Author:  Siao7 [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

wire2004 wrote:
What did the last formula 1 driver get for punching a felĺow formula 1 driver?


In F1 thankfully it hasn't happened for a good few decades, but in European F3 it did recently:

https://www.autosport.com/f3/news/12391 ... ltercation

With bad results for the driver that started it

Author:  MB-BOB [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

j man wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Verstappen is a fantastic driving talent, but a terrible personality.

:thumbup:

His attitude will cost him a title before his talent wins him one.


Best said yet! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Author:  Robot [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

A fine or some point in his driver license will do nothing. He is a classic bully, on track and outside the track, if FIA don't do anything about it, he will create more trouble in the future, mark my words.

Author:  F1 MERCENARY [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

RLKD wrote:
The question should be "appropriate penalty for Ocon's actions?"

I can't get my head around the fact that people try to put any blame on Max and defend Ocon for this. He's got the victory stolen away from him. Ocon had no business whatsoever of going wheel to wheel with him.

If this is how you see the situation you need to rethink what you know about motorsport and more importantly sportsmanship. The RULE IS that "when" a car has a "significant portion" (just the front wing alone is considered significant) on the inside of another car, the leading driver must leave a car's width of room. In this case Ocon had 75% of his car alongside and in Verstappen's field of vision and Max chose to slam the door shut as he's become accustomed to doing but this time the opposing driver had better position and was indeed faster and it was your beloved Max who caused the contact, and if you look at the incident you'd see that clear as day.

Hamilton told Max in those situations you have more to lose, though I'm certain in his arrogance Max brushed it off and still felt it was all Ocon's fault for daring to contest a move on the track. Had it been the other way around you'd be defending Max vehemently because as a racer on a race track he has every right to RACE! The one thing no one is considering here is the fact that Ocon is at the moment, without a race seat for 2019 and he's trying to do all he can to impress in the hopes it helps him land a seat. Surely, that fact cannot be ignored.

Sorry to burst your's and Max's bubble, but Max cost himself the race win and Lewis told him so in the cool down room too.


UnlikeUday wrote:
Toby. wrote:
Two days of community service. How humiliating.


I doubt it will even scratch the surface of his over inflated ego. He's still relatively new in F1. Once he achieves success, I hope he mellows down & doesn't keep being prudent. Loved Hamilton's input to Verstappen in the cool down room. Hamilton has learnt so much with experience which Max will do as well but I hope he does.

The problem doesn't only lie with Max himself. His father was/is a rather arrogant personality himself so some of this is taught and instilled from a very early age and Max believes he's the all encompassing deity of F1 and all shall yield to the divine chosen one.



ALESI wrote:
I never really understand this idea of unlapping yourself, unless you are massively faster and can pull a gap immediately then surely you'll be given blue flags straight away?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9zgL7iyNDs

Nothing more to say on that other than ANYTHING is possible and racers have the right to fight to the bitter end.

Author:  Longnose [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

What about Ocon? As far as I am aware, neither Ocon or the Force India team have not issued an apology or taken responsibility for his actions. That shows a real lack of character. Ocon was the one who caused the problem, stewards agreed, he should have taken the initiative to apologize the first chance he saw Max. That is not an insignificant thing, crashing into Max and costing him the win.

Author:  ShaneM [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Max ends every social media (Twitter/ Instagram/ whatever) with #Keep Pushing, he clearly goes for every gap or chance he has at advancing his race/ qualifying results, and is completely unapologetic for doing so. Ocon did the same thing he would have done had the situation been reversed, and Max would have acted out just as he did yesterday (not my fault, other driver is a P**** etc...). He is a Narcasist of the highest order, and when someone gives him a dose of his own medicine he completely looses it, and immediately starts using inappropriate language, knowing he is on live TV/ Radio..... And then seeks out a physical altercation. I do everything I can to avoid being involved with these types of people in my personal and or professional life, as they are impossible to deal with, and generally have mental issue's that need to be dealt with, often times including long term therapy and medication.

Author:  Option or Prime [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Longnose wrote:
What about Ocon? As far as I am aware, neither Ocon or the Force India team have not issued an apology or taken responsibility for his actions. That shows a real lack of character. Ocon was the one who caused the problem, stewards agreed, he should have taken the initiative to apologize the first chance he saw Max. That is not an insignificant thing, crashing into Max and costing him the win.


I think any chance of an apology went when he shoved him of the platform!

Ocon doesn't think he was completely culpable so apologising is a bit hypocritical.

Author:  Alienturnedhuman [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Max's conduct in the weigh in room was definitely inexcusable, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehill, it was aggressive but wasn't violent, nor was it an attempt to cause harm, it was essentially someone trying to exert dominance on another.

Max probably knows inside himself that he should have just let Ocon through (if he doesn't then he's a fool) but because he knows Ocon was more at fault for the collision he can cling to the moral superiority argument when talking about it, or presenting his position on it. The problem is, having a post race shoving match immediately undermines that, because now the discussion has shifted to being about that as well. If he'd have left it at some Liberty censored radio messages, all we'd be talking about is the collision - for which most people are putting the blame with Ocon.

Ultimately, if Vettel didn't receive anything significant for driving into Hamilton with his car, then it's difficult to justify any more than these community service days for Max. It's proportionate as well, and to be honest, Max did himself more damage to his image with his actions than any punishment as it just continues to present himself as a hot headed, self entitled youngster who needs to grow up a lot.


No, the problem is that if Ocon didn't defuse the situation (you need great composure not to retaliate and escalate things when someone is swearing at you in your face and pushing you) then Max would have ended up in big trouble. There could have been fisticuffs and that wouldn't have ended well. Couple of years ago two drivers got banned in F3 for that, didn't they? Where would that leave him?

And no, it's not a mountain-molehill scenario. I can't imagine how you can say this the moment it gets physical in front of the cameras? It is something that should not be tolerated. Hamilton was blasting Vettel for giving kids a bad example after Baku last year, you think that getting physical is a good example? Good grief. Yes it can happen, we're all human after all, but don't brush it under the carpet, it should be dealt with. More appropriately than the slap on the hand that he got really.

I think Max needs to control his temper before he punches someone and gets shown the door. Or worse, if he punches the wrong person...

I think you are kind of missing my point. Ocon not responding to his shoves only served to undermine Max further and make him look like an even smaller individual than he already did by starting the shoving.

Discussing the "what ifs" of a situation that didn't happen is irrelevant. Maybe Max did want to have a punch up and Ocon Gandhied his butt, but ultimately pushing someone and shouting at them is a completely different ball park to actually throwing a punch and causing, or attempting to cause, actual harm.

Author:  Siao7 [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Max's conduct in the weigh in room was definitely inexcusable, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehill, it was aggressive but wasn't violent, nor was it an attempt to cause harm, it was essentially someone trying to exert dominance on another.

Max probably knows inside himself that he should have just let Ocon through (if he doesn't then he's a fool) but because he knows Ocon was more at fault for the collision he can cling to the moral superiority argument when talking about it, or presenting his position on it. The problem is, having a post race shoving match immediately undermines that, because now the discussion has shifted to being about that as well. If he'd have left it at some Liberty censored radio messages, all we'd be talking about is the collision - for which most people are putting the blame with Ocon.

Ultimately, if Vettel didn't receive anything significant for driving into Hamilton with his car, then it's difficult to justify any more than these community service days for Max. It's proportionate as well, and to be honest, Max did himself more damage to his image with his actions than any punishment as it just continues to present himself as a hot headed, self entitled youngster who needs to grow up a lot.


No, the problem is that if Ocon didn't defuse the situation (you need great composure not to retaliate and escalate things when someone is swearing at you in your face and pushing you) then Max would have ended up in big trouble. There could have been fisticuffs and that wouldn't have ended well. Couple of years ago two drivers got banned in F3 for that, didn't they? Where would that leave him?

And no, it's not a mountain-molehill scenario. I can't imagine how you can say this the moment it gets physical in front of the cameras? It is something that should not be tolerated. Hamilton was blasting Vettel for giving kids a bad example after Baku last year, you think that getting physical is a good example? Good grief. Yes it can happen, we're all human after all, but don't brush it under the carpet, it should be dealt with. More appropriately than the slap on the hand that he got really.

I think Max needs to control his temper before he punches someone and gets shown the door. Or worse, if he punches the wrong person...

I think you are kind of missing my point. Ocon not responding to his shoves only served to undermine Max further and make him look like an even smaller individual than he already did by starting the shoving.

Discussing the "what ifs" of a situation that didn't happen is irrelevant. Maybe Max did want to have a punch up and Ocon Gandhied his butt, but ultimately pushing someone and shouting at them is a completely different ball park to actually throwing a punch and causing, or attempting to cause, actual harm.

Apologies, I probably missed your point there if that's what you meant.

As for the last part, I respectfully disagree, this behaviour shall be nipped in the butt. It needs the tiniest spark to escalate to a full blown punching match. Again, it was only Ocon's cool that stopped this.

RB seemingly backing him up and Max's hot temper meant he went there for one reason only. And that wasn't to ask Ocon out for a beer... The fact that he left and turned back to further push Ocon says a lot.

He has a temper issue and I hope it is addressed by RB before they land into hot water. He was extremely lucky yesterday.

Author:  Option or Prime [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Max's conduct in the weigh in room was definitely inexcusable, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehill, it was aggressive but wasn't violent, nor was it an attempt to cause harm, it was essentially someone trying to exert dominance on another.

Max probably knows inside himself that he should have just let Ocon through (if he doesn't then he's a fool) but because he knows Ocon was more at fault for the collision he can cling to the moral superiority argument when talking about it, or presenting his position on it. The problem is, having a post race shoving match immediately undermines that, because now the discussion has shifted to being about that as well. If he'd have left it at some Liberty censored radio messages, all we'd be talking about is the collision - for which most people are putting the blame with Ocon.

Ultimately, if Vettel didn't receive anything significant for driving into Hamilton with his car, then it's difficult to justify any more than these community service days for Max. It's proportionate as well, and to be honest, Max did himself more damage to his image with his actions than any punishment as it just continues to present himself as a hot headed, self entitled youngster who needs to grow up a lot.



No, the problem is that if Ocon didn't defuse the situation (you need great composure not to retaliate and escalate things when someone is swearing at you in your face and pushing you) then Max would have ended up in big trouble. There could have been fisticuffs and that wouldn't have ended well. Couple of years ago two drivers got banned in F3 for that, didn't they? Where would that leave him?

And no, it's not a mountain-molehill scenario. I can't imagine how you can say this the moment it gets physical in front of the cameras? It is something that should not be tolerated. Hamilton was blasting Vettel for giving kids a bad example after Baku last year, you think that getting physical is a good example? Good grief. Yes it can happen, we're all human after all, but don't brush it under the carpet, it should be dealt with. More appropriately than the slap on the hand that he got really.

I think Max needs to control his temper before he punches someone and gets shown the door. Or worse, if he punches the wrong person...

I think you are kind of missing my point. Ocon not responding to his shoves only served to undermine Max further and make him look like an even smaller individual than he already did by starting the shoving.

Discussing the "what ifs" of a situation that didn't happen is irrelevant. Maybe Max did want to have a punch up and Ocon Gandhied his butt, but ultimately pushing someone and shouting at them is a completely different ball park to actually throwing a punch and causing, or attempting to cause, actual harm.

Apologies, I probably missed your point there if that's what you meant.

As for the last part, I respectfully disagree, this behaviour shall be nipped in the butt. It needs the tiniest spark to escalate to a full blown punching match. Again, it was only Ocon's cool that stopped this.

RB seemingly backing him up and Max's hot temper meant he went there for one reason only. And that wasn't to ask Ocon out for a beer... The fact that he left and turned back to further push Ocon says a lot.

He has a temper issue and I hope it is addressed by RB before they land into hot water. He was extremely lucky yesterday.


It will only cause RB a problem if it happens on the track and he uses his car as a weapon. The FIA will simply get a couple of days free social education as that is the precedent.

As I said elsewhere everyone will tiptoe around him because:

a) They are afraid of him or
b) They don't want to lose his talent.

I doubt if we have seen the last of this, Daniil Kvyatt is back next year, which should be interesting IMV the only way he might change is if LeClerc or someone similar takes F1 by storm at the moment he believes he is peerless.

Author:  F1 MERCENARY [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Longnose wrote:
What about Ocon? As far as I am aware, neither Ocon or the Force India team have not issued an apology or taken responsibility for his actions. That shows a real lack of character. Ocon was the one who caused the problem, stewards agreed, he should have taken the initiative to apologize the first chance he saw Max. That is not an insignificant thing, crashing into Max and costing him the win.

:thumbdown:
Sorry but noooo…

Ocon did not cause "the problem" the problem was Verstappen slamming the door on a car that was completely alongside, which for some reason devout Verstappen fans seem to dismiss altogether. However, if the roles were reversed, you'd all be singing that little excerpt in the rules to the moon!

Ocon did absolutely nothing wrong and in fact, gave max ample room to get past initially and then did what ALL racers are supposed to do and set himself up to retake his position ahead of Verstappen and got himself WELL alongside where max could see Ocon's front tires nearly touching his own, yet he chose to turn in and squeeze Ocon off the track.

So therefore, neither Ocon nor Force India have anything to apologize for. If anything Max and his team should apologize to Ocon and Force India for causing so much damage to their car.

Author:  Vettel Fan [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

What was the big deal? A little shove. It's not like they threw any punches.

Author:  dompclarke [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Longnose wrote:
What about Ocon? As far as I am aware, neither Ocon or the Force India team have not issued an apology or taken responsibility for his actions. That shows a real lack of character. Ocon was the one who caused the problem, stewards agreed, he should have taken the initiative to apologize the first chance he saw Max. That is not an insignificant thing, crashing into Max and costing him the win.

:thumbdown:
Sorry but noooo…

Ocon did not cause "the problem" the problem was Verstappen slamming the door on a car that was completely alongside, which for some reason devout Verstappen fans seem to dismiss altogether. However, if the roles were reversed, you'd all be singing that little excerpt in the rules to the moon!

Ocon did absolutely nothing wrong and in fact, gave max ample room to get past initially and then did what ALL racers are supposed to do and set himself up to retake his position ahead of Verstappen and got himself WELL alongside where max could see Ocon's front tires nearly touching his own, yet he chose to turn in and squeeze Ocon off the track.

So therefore, neither Ocon nor Force India have anything to apologize for. If anything Max and his team should apologize to Ocon and Force India for causing so much damage to their car.

I'll be honest, I'm a Max fan. His driving when he is being an entitled bullying whatnot can be outstanding, there is no doubt the talent is in there. I do however agree this was a racing incident and Ocon/FI have nothing to apologise for.

Author:  tootsie323 [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

ShaneM wrote:
Max ends every social media (Twitter/ Instagram/ whatever) with #Keep Pushing...
Well... I guess he did.

Author:  wire2004 [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Vettel Fan wrote:
What was the big deal? A little shove. It's not like they threw any punches.


I don't think senna got punished for punching Eddie Irvine.

Author:  TheGiantHogweed [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

I think I'd go for a 1 race ban. It may make him think that if he continues doing anything like this in the future that there will be consequences. His ability to control his anger is the worst out of anyone on the grid at the moment. The way he reacted after he lost pole in Mexico was a joke to. And the fact that is apparently lost him sleep is pathetic.

With the latest incident, it was over 20 laps after it happened. Verstappen said: "No, I know what to say, I hope he..... I can't find him now in the paddock because then he is beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep"

That beep was pretty long so must have been covering up a fair bit of bad language. Then he clearly tried to find Ocon and just could not control himself. I admit he's a great driver, but i absolutely hate him outside of the car and when i hear him in it. And this unfortuantly makes me loose my respect for how good he is. He needs to control himself better before he impresses me to be one of the best. He just isn't at all mature or consistent yet. Probably the most immature driver out there. Stroll's personality seems much more pleasant.

https://www.racefans.net/2018/11/12/why ... ving-ocon/

I found this article on race fans extremely interesting. And I strongly agree. His farther does not seem at all like a nice person and from one of the interviews Verstappen had, he said he learnt a lot from his dad about driving. I even remember him saying his dad told him to keep hold of the wheel if you are about to crash heavily. And he always seems to. Look at Monaco 2015. I won't feel sorry for him if he breaks his arms if that happens sometime. Not a single other driver chooses to do that from what I've seen. His personality seems too similar to his fathers from what I've read. Not saying he goes even close to what his father has done, but it is clear there are links somehow. This article on racefans has by far the most comments any page has ever had on the history of this site. Obviously Verstappen pushing Ocon is more interesting than driver wining championships, races and so on :D

There are very mixed comments. Some think it is incredibly harsh to compare Verstappen to him. But I think it is written in a fair way. Quite clearly indicating Jos is worse. But If Verstappen keeps listening for tips, or just continues as he is, he is certainly going to have a race ban sometime soon. I really think having one this next race will have discouraged him from repeating a lot of things he did this year again in the future.

Author:  kleefton [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Max's conduct in the weigh in room was definitely inexcusable, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehill, it was aggressive but wasn't violent, nor was it an attempt to cause harm, it was essentially someone trying to exert dominance on another.

Max probably knows inside himself that he should have just let Ocon through (if he doesn't then he's a fool) but because he knows Ocon was more at fault for the collision he can cling to the moral superiority argument when talking about it, or presenting his position on it. The problem is, having a post race shoving match immediately undermines that, because now the discussion has shifted to being about that as well. If he'd have left it at some Liberty censored radio messages, all we'd be talking about is the collision - for which most people are putting the blame with Ocon.

Ultimately, if Vettel didn't receive anything significant for driving into Hamilton with his car, then it's difficult to justify any more than these community service days for Max. It's proportionate as well, and to be honest, Max did himself more damage to his image with his actions than any punishment as it just continues to present himself as a hot headed, self entitled youngster who needs to grow up a lot.


It seemed violent to me. At least it invited some violence. If someone shoved me like that repeatedly, I would have no choice but to reciprocate and it would likely escalate into a fight, and I am not someone that gets into fights. I think Max wanted Ocon to fight back there, you don't shove someone that way and expect them not to fight back. Ocon didn't look good just backing off like that. Won't earn him any ballsy points, that's for sure.

Author:  kleefton [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Longnose wrote:
What about Ocon? As far as I am aware, neither Ocon or the Force India team have not issued an apology or taken responsibility for his actions. That shows a real lack of character. Ocon was the one who caused the problem, stewards agreed, he should have taken the initiative to apologize the first chance he saw Max. That is not an insignificant thing, crashing into Max and costing him the win.

:thumbdown:
Sorry but noooo…

Ocon did not cause "the problem" the problem was Verstappen slamming the door on a car that was completely alongside, which for some reason devout Verstappen fans seem to dismiss altogether. However, if the roles were reversed, you'd all be singing that little excerpt in the rules to the moon!

Ocon did absolutely nothing wrong and in fact, gave max ample room to get past initially and then did what ALL racers are supposed to do and set himself up to retake his position ahead of Verstappen and got himself WELL alongside where max could see Ocon's front tires nearly touching his own, yet he chose to turn in and squeeze Ocon off the track.

So therefore, neither Ocon nor Force India have anything to apologize for. If anything Max and his team should apologize to Ocon and Force India for causing so much damage to their car.


:thumbup:

Author:  Longnose [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Stewards disagree, they gave Ocon the penalty, not Max. Classy thing to do would be Ocon to apologize, he was in the wrong according to the stewards. But Ocon is demonstrating his lack of class, character and integrity. Same way he whined and cried when Lance Stroll got his seat and he got nothing. He's a looser, and thats why he doesn't have a seat next year.

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

kleefton wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Max's conduct in the weigh in room was definitely inexcusable, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehill, it was aggressive but wasn't violent, nor was it an attempt to cause harm, it was essentially someone trying to exert dominance on another.

Max probably knows inside himself that he should have just let Ocon through (if he doesn't then he's a fool) but because he knows Ocon was more at fault for the collision he can cling to the moral superiority argument when talking about it, or presenting his position on it. The problem is, having a post race shoving match immediately undermines that, because now the discussion has shifted to being about that as well. If he'd have left it at some Liberty censored radio messages, all we'd be talking about is the collision - for which most people are putting the blame with Ocon.

Ultimately, if Vettel didn't receive anything significant for driving into Hamilton with his car, then it's difficult to justify any more than these community service days for Max. It's proportionate as well, and to be honest, Max did himself more damage to his image with his actions than any punishment as it just continues to present himself as a hot headed, self entitled youngster who needs to grow up a lot.


It seemed violent to me. At least it invited some violence. If someone shoved me like that repeatedly, I would have no choice but to reciprocate and it would likely escalate into a fight, and I am not someone that gets into fights. I think Max wanted Ocon to fight back there, you don't shove someone that way and expect them not to fight back. Ocon didn't look good just backing off like that. Won't earn him any ballsy points, that's for sure.


Ocon keeps his brains with him. He's mature & knows there are cameras everywhere. Once when Max exited the weighing room, he realised all this was being recorded but the damage had been done.

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Longnose wrote:
Stewards disagree, they gave Ocon the penalty, not Max. Classy thing to do would be Ocon to apologize, he was in the wrong according to the stewards. But Ocon is demonstrating his lack of class, character and integrity. Same way he whined and cried when Lance Stroll got his seat and he got nothing. He's a looser, and thats why he doesn't have a seat next year.


Wait 2020!

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

ShaneM wrote:
Max ends every social media (Twitter/ Instagram/ whatever) with #Keep Pushing, he clearly goes for every gap or chance he has at advancing his race/ qualifying results, and is completely unapologetic for doing so. Ocon did the same thing he would have done had the situation been reversed, and Max would have acted out just as he did yesterday (not my fault, other driver is a P**** etc...). He is a Narcasist of the highest order, and when someone gives him a dose of his own medicine he completely looses it, and immediately starts using inappropriate language, knowing he is on live TV/ Radio..... And then seeks out a physical altercation. I do everything I can to avoid being involved with these types of people in my personal and or professional life, as they are impossible to deal with, and generally have mental issue's that need to be dealt with, often times including long term therapy and medication.


In the driver's press conference, he still wasn't satisfied. He called Ocon a Pu**y! He surely needs to undergo some Anger Management Therapy!

Author:  Alienturnedhuman [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

kleefton wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Max's conduct in the weigh in room was definitely inexcusable, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehill, it was aggressive but wasn't violent, nor was it an attempt to cause harm, it was essentially someone trying to exert dominance on another.

Max probably knows inside himself that he should have just let Ocon through (if he doesn't then he's a fool) but because he knows Ocon was more at fault for the collision he can cling to the moral superiority argument when talking about it, or presenting his position on it. The problem is, having a post race shoving match immediately undermines that, because now the discussion has shifted to being about that as well. If he'd have left it at some Liberty censored radio messages, all we'd be talking about is the collision - for which most people are putting the blame with Ocon.

Ultimately, if Vettel didn't receive anything significant for driving into Hamilton with his car, then it's difficult to justify any more than these community service days for Max. It's proportionate as well, and to be honest, Max did himself more damage to his image with his actions than any punishment as it just continues to present himself as a hot headed, self entitled youngster who needs to grow up a lot.


It seemed violent to me. At least it invited some violence. If someone shoved me like that repeatedly, I would have no choice but to reciprocate and it would likely escalate into a fight, and I am not someone that gets into fights. I think Max wanted Ocon to fight back there, you don't shove someone that way and expect them not to fight back. Ocon didn't look good just backing off like that. Won't earn him any ballsy points, that's for sure.

Ballsy points don't count to the WDC so I don't think he'll care.

What *should* Ocon have done?

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Ocon shared a few pics on his Twitter a/c. He pointed out when he overtook Alonso, he gave him room through turn 2. When it came to Max, we can see a different line been taken. The 2 images aren't at the exact same point of the track & neither were they in the same scenario. What's common is if there's a car side by side, You need to leave room.

Image
Source - www.imgur.com

Image
Source - www.imgur.com

Author:  Blinky McSquinty [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

What did that contact cost Verstappen? Red Bull pay poorly on annual salary, the big money is in performance bonuses. IMO it cost Verstappen approximately a million dollars. But that win was washed away, and we have a very angry young man.

Where was his team to protect him from his own anger and stupidity? Anyone with half a brain could see that he was seething and going to do something stupid.

I do not condone any violence, but to see Verstappen stand up for what he thought were his rights is actually refreshing in this politically correct world. Then again, I watched George Follmer pop Jackie Oliver in the nose and knock him on his butt.

And understand this ... all drivers are selfish self-absorbed jerks. You must have that in your makeup to be able to force yourself to these heights in driving.

Author:  Mercedes-Benz [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Honestly incident like this is pretty common for Max because the way he drives. He has no respect for other cars on track. It was unfortunate because they were not racing and he lost the lead. I voted for 1 race ban as he is very arrogant and never accepts his mistakes

Author:  kleefton [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Max's conduct in the weigh in room was definitely inexcusable, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehill, it was aggressive but wasn't violent, nor was it an attempt to cause harm, it was essentially someone trying to exert dominance on another.

Max probably knows inside himself that he should have just let Ocon through (if he doesn't then he's a fool) but because he knows Ocon was more at fault for the collision he can cling to the moral superiority argument when talking about it, or presenting his position on it. The problem is, having a post race shoving match immediately undermines that, because now the discussion has shifted to being about that as well. If he'd have left it at some Liberty censored radio messages, all we'd be talking about is the collision - for which most people are putting the blame with Ocon.

Ultimately, if Vettel didn't receive anything significant for driving into Hamilton with his car, then it's difficult to justify any more than these community service days for Max. It's proportionate as well, and to be honest, Max did himself more damage to his image with his actions than any punishment as it just continues to present himself as a hot headed, self entitled youngster who needs to grow up a lot.


It seemed violent to me. At least it invited some violence. If someone shoved me like that repeatedly, I would have no choice but to reciprocate and it would likely escalate into a fight, and I am not someone that gets into fights. I think Max wanted Ocon to fight back there, you don't shove someone that way and expect them not to fight back. Ocon didn't look good just backing off like that. Won't earn him any ballsy points, that's for sure.

Ballsy points don't count to the WDC so I don't think he'll care.

What *should* Ocon have done?


And the WDC doesn't involve someone treating you like a punching bag. He should have done what most athletes or men do if someone came at them in that manner.

Author:  Jezza13 [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

UnlikeUday wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Max's conduct in the weigh in room was definitely inexcusable, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehill, it was aggressive but wasn't violent, nor was it an attempt to cause harm, it was essentially someone trying to exert dominance on another.

Max probably knows inside himself that he should have just let Ocon through (if he doesn't then he's a fool) but because he knows Ocon was more at fault for the collision he can cling to the moral superiority argument when talking about it, or presenting his position on it. The problem is, having a post race shoving match immediately undermines that, because now the discussion has shifted to being about that as well. If he'd have left it at some Liberty censored radio messages, all we'd be talking about is the collision - for which most people are putting the blame with Ocon.

Ultimately, if Vettel didn't receive anything significant for driving into Hamilton with his car, then it's difficult to justify any more than these community service days for Max. It's proportionate as well, and to be honest, Max did himself more damage to his image with his actions than any punishment as it just continues to present himself as a hot headed, self entitled youngster who needs to grow up a lot.


It seemed violent to me. At least it invited some violence. If someone shoved me like that repeatedly, I would have no choice but to reciprocate and it would likely escalate into a fight, and I am not someone that gets into fights. I think Max wanted Ocon to fight back there, you don't shove someone that way and expect them not to fight back. Ocon didn't look good just backing off like that. Won't earn him any ballsy points, that's for sure.


Ocon keeps his brains with him. He's mature & knows there are cameras everywhere. Once when Max exited the weighing room, he realised all this was being recorded but the damage had been done.


Disagree.

Verstappen thrives on intimidation & he laid down a strong psychological marker on Ocon on Sunday. Ocon should've stood his ground & handled it himself instead of complaining to the officials.

For me, a bit of verbal for the first shove, then on the 2nd i'd consider it time for self defence as i'd believe my safety was at risk your honour & it'd be time to see what Max is made of.

Would he have gone all tough guy if it were Hamilton, Vettel, Raikonnen or Ricciardo in the other car?

Doubt it. Hmmmm..... this gives me an idea for another thread.

Author:  Mr-E [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Longnose wrote:
Stewards disagree, they gave Ocon the penalty, not Max. Classy thing to do would be Ocon to apologize, he was in the wrong according to the stewards. But Ocon is demonstrating his lack of class, character and integrity. Same way he whined and cried when Lance Stroll got his seat and he got nothing. He's a looser, and thats why he doesn't have a seat next year.


:lol: Sounds like you are describing daddy's boy Max.

Author:  Frenk Biber [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

What I really miss in this thread is a sense of fun. Didn't you have to laugh when Max did his little shove? I really hoped that Ocon would hit back and that a mass brawl would have started, like young lion Alfredo Fabri in some old Michel Vaillant book. Good fun. I think y'all sound like a bunch of Bottasses.

Author:  Siao7 [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

The more I think about it, the more I hope this will be a lesson to young Max. Be clever and win the race, act stupidly and lose. Lewis and others before him learned this lesson and now he got an unlikely win.

If Max (and those surrounding him) can turn this experience into something positive, then he could only benefit from this incident.

As for the shoving, I do hope that some day he will try the wrong person. Can you imagine him trying this crap on Webber or Senna or any other drivers? He'd get a kicking to next week...

Author:  Lojik [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Siao7 wrote:
Can you imagine him trying this crap on Webber or Senna or any other drivers? He'd get a kicking to next week...


Of the current crop, I could see Magnussen chinning him if he tried that :lol:

Author:  f1madman [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Alienturnedhuman wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Max's conduct in the weigh in room was definitely inexcusable, but let's not make a mountain out of a molehill, it was aggressive but wasn't violent, nor was it an attempt to cause harm, it was essentially someone trying to exert dominance on another.

Max probably knows inside himself that he should have just let Ocon through (if he doesn't then he's a fool) but because he knows Ocon was more at fault for the collision he can cling to the moral superiority argument when talking about it, or presenting his position on it. The problem is, having a post race shoving match immediately undermines that, because now the discussion has shifted to being about that as well. If he'd have left it at some Liberty censored radio messages, all we'd be talking about is the collision - for which most people are putting the blame with Ocon.

Ultimately, if Vettel didn't receive anything significant for driving into Hamilton with his car, then it's difficult to justify any more than these community service days for Max. It's proportionate as well, and to be honest, Max did himself more damage to his image with his actions than any punishment as it just continues to present himself as a hot headed, self entitled youngster who needs to grow up a lot.


It seemed violent to me. At least it invited some violence. If someone shoved me like that repeatedly, I would have no choice but to reciprocate and it would likely escalate into a fight, and I am not someone that gets into fights. I think Max wanted Ocon to fight back there, you don't shove someone that way and expect them not to fight back. Ocon didn't look good just backing off like that. Won't earn him any ballsy points, that's for sure.

Ballsy points don't count to the WDC so I don't think he'll care.

What *should* Ocon have done?


Ocon did the right thing and called the fia stewards over. No point risking violence and losing your career in the process. That was very mature.

Some people pretend to be hard, all I know is if I reacted like verstappen in the real world or if I reacted violently against someone like max at work it would not end well for me or my livelihood.

Sometimes got to swallow your pride and be mature and calm. Ocon acted perfectly here.

Author:  f1madman [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Lojik wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Can you imagine him trying this crap on Webber or Senna or any other drivers? He'd get a kicking to next week...


Of the current crop, I could see Magnussen chinning him if he tried that :lol:


Lol I like magnussen, I'm not sure how hard he is though?

Author:  sandman1347 [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Max wouldn't try that with certain guys. He's a text book bully. He'll only pick on the kid who won't fight back.

Author:  F1 MERCENARY [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

Blinky McSquinty wrote:
What did that contact cost Verstappen? Red Bull pay poorly on annual salary, the big money is in performance bonuses. IMO it cost Verstappen approximately a million dollars. But that win was washed away, and we have a very angry young man.

Where was his team to protect him from his own anger and stupidity? Anyone with half a brain could see that he was seething and going to do something stupid.

I do not condone any violence, but to see Verstappen stand up for what he thought were his rights is actually refreshing in this politically correct world. Then again, I watched George Follmer pop Jackie Oliver in the nose and knock him on his butt.

And understand this ... all drivers are selfish self-absorbed jerks. You must have that in your makeup to be able to force yourself to these heights in driving.

Surprised to hear you say that, and while I’m kind of there with you, Verstappen is no one to go seeking out others for incidents when he has done the same before and no one sought him out to get in his immature face and let him have it. Raikkonen in particular had reason to whoop his hind quarters on multiple occasions and he completed himself rather than knock the KID’S teeth in.

Personally, I grew up in the hood so I’m always game to watch a good fight but only when it’s warranted. If I were Ocon I’d have beat him senseless and screw getting a race ban or points off my license or Community service... I’d have gone completely A Christmas Story on him and rest assured it would be the last time Max would EVER step to a grown man like that.

Still, Ocon has one last opportunity to get back at Max and if it were me I’d make sure to impede and provoke Mad Max as I could in order to get him off his game and hopefully provoke another attack so he can earn himself a well warranted butwhoopin and heftier penalties from the FIA.

I just don’t care for arrogant self entitled people.

Author:  Option or Prime [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Appropriate penalty for Max's actions?

f1madman wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Can you imagine him trying this crap on Webber or Senna or any other drivers? He'd get a kicking to next week...


Of the current crop, I could see Magnussen chinning him if he tried that :lol:


Lol I like magnussen, I'm not sure how hard he is though?


You don't tell Nico Hulkenburg to "suck my ......" without being able to back it up. At 0.40sec


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