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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:11 pm 
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https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14053 ... e-revealed


Hamilton top with 8/9 bosses ranking him #1

Verstappen then Vettel a distant 2 & 3.

Some interesting choices after that...

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:32 pm 
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A clarification for any pedantic types out there, that's 8/9 team principals who can vote for him, as they can't vote for their own drivers, so Toto can't vote for him or Bottas. That makes a perfect score 225, so Hamilton got 8 wins and 1 second place. Who do we think that's from?

Fake news! Turns out they changed the "no voting for your own drivers" rule and Ferrari chose not to take part.


Last edited by Alienturnedhuman on Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:40 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
A clarification for any pedantic types out there, that's 8/9 team principals who can vote for him, as they can't vote for their own drivers, so Toto can't vote for him or Bottas. That makes a perfect score 225, so Hamilton got 8 wins and 1 second place. Who do we think that's from?


Toro Rosso perhaps? With that number one vote going to Verstappen?


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 6:55 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
A clarification for any pedantic types out there, that's 8/9 team principals who can vote for him, as they can't vote for their own drivers, so Toto can't vote for him or Bottas. That makes a perfect score 225, so Hamilton got 8 wins and 1 second place. Who do we think that's from?


Cyril Abiteboul

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/1 ... er-of-2018

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:05 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
A clarification for any pedantic types out there, that's 8/9 team principals who can vote for him, as they can't vote for their own drivers, so Toto can't vote for him or Bottas. That makes a perfect score 225, so Hamilton got 8 wins and 1 second place. Who do we think that's from?

Apparently this rule got changed as Ferrari elected not to take part, so with 9 people voting for him, Toto must have voted for Hamilton. I therefore assume Horner voted for Max.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:39 am 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
...........and Ferrari chose not to take part.


Same as it ever was.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:28 am 
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Lojik wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
...........and Ferrari chose not to take part.


Same as it ever was.


Meaning?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:58 am 
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Blake wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
...........and Ferrari chose not to take part.


Same as it ever was.


Meaning?

They didn't vote last year either.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 4:39 am 
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So what? Who really cares? It is their choice.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:57 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
...........and Ferrari chose not to take part.


Same as it ever was.


Meaning?

They didn't vote last year either.


Yes they did...

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13347 ... s-revealed

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:27 am 
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Blake wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
...........and Ferrari chose not to take part.


Same as it ever was.


Meaning?


Meaning Ferrari are the most insular closed off team on the grid. Do they take part in the Montreal raft race? No. Do they take part in the F1 teams E-sports? nope. I read constant complaints from the media that Ferrari do the bare minimum possible.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:23 am 
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I find it funny that they voted Alonso in 4th when none of the top teams wanted to hire him!

The odd thing for me with Ferrari not taking part is that they could be admitting that they don't have the best drivers. They may not want to admit that they didn't have the best drivers but at the same time not come across as dishonest by voting Vettel and Kimi at 1 and 2.

Or they may simply just not be bothered as it has affect what so ever on the racing and that's all they're bothered about!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:59 pm 
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Blake wrote:
So what? Who really cares? It is their choice.

If you don't care then why post, I was only explaining the meaning behind the post.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:01 pm 
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Herb wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Blake wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
...........and Ferrari chose not to take part.


Same as it ever was.


Meaning?

They didn't vote last year either.


Yes they did...

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/13347 ... s-revealed

Fair enough I was just repeating what someone else had said.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 1:05 pm 
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minchy wrote:
I find it funny that they voted Alonso in 4th when none of the top teams wanted to hire him!

The odd thing for me with Ferrari not taking part is that they could be admitting that they don't have the best drivers. They may not want to admit that they didn't have the best drivers but at the same time not come across as dishonest by voting Vettel and Kimi at 1 and 2.

Or they may simply just not be bothered as it has affect what so ever on the racing and that's all they're bothered about!

No I think 4th is quite low, notice he is below Hamilton, Verstappen and Vettel so then there is no real case to hire him because they have drivers that are better.

Arrivibene when interviewed actually said that Hamilton had been the best driver.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:00 pm 
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List looks about how I would expect it to shape up so my only changes would be nitpicking and entirely subjective.

Lojik wrote:
Blake wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
...........and Ferrari chose not to take part.


Same as it ever was.


Meaning?


Meaning Ferrari are the most insular closed off team on the grid. Do they take part in the Montreal raft race? No. Do they take part in the F1 teams E-sports? nope. I read constant complaints from the media that Ferrari do the bare minimum possible.


You're criticizing Ferrari because they don't partake in ancillary activities that don't impact the actual championship they are competing for?

You're making Ferrari out to be lazy, yet they're they only team to compete in EVERY year of the F1 championship, they are primarily the reason a track testing limit is in place, and have invested incredibly heavily and worked so hard to only come up second best to Red Bull and Mercedes over the last decade? I think that's incredibly demeaning to their workers at the factory (and in extension all the hard work Renault and Honda have done as well to catch Mercedes).

Also, Stefano did partake in this Team Principal survey IIRC, which would make this an Arrivebene thing and not a Ferrari thing.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:54 pm 
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Honda Quick wrote:
List looks about how I would expect it to shape up so my only changes would be nitpicking and entirely subjective.

Lojik wrote:
Blake wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
...........and Ferrari chose not to take part.


Same as it ever was.


Meaning?


Meaning Ferrari are the most insular closed off team on the grid. Do they take part in the Montreal raft race? No. Do they take part in the F1 teams E-sports? nope. I read constant complaints from the media that Ferrari do the bare minimum possible.


You're criticizing Ferrari because they don't partake in ancillary activities that don't impact the actual championship they are competing for?

You're making Ferrari out to be lazy, yet they're they only team to compete in EVERY year of the F1 championship, they are primarily the reason a track testing limit is in place, and have invested incredibly heavily and worked so hard to only come up second best to Red Bull and Mercedes over the last decade? I think that's incredibly demeaning to their workers at the factory (and in extension all the hard work Renault and Honda have done as well to catch Mercedes).

Also, Stefano did partake in this Team Principal survey IIRC, which would make this an Arrivebene thing and not a Ferrari thing.


I don't think it's a criticism of Ferrari just a comment on their lack of cooperation with the media and general fun activities around the sport. They are perfectly allowed to do that of course. It's up to them.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:42 am 
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Honda Quick wrote:
List looks about how I would expect it to shape up so my only changes would be nitpicking and entirely subjective.

Lojik wrote:
Blake wrote:
Lojik wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
...........and Ferrari chose not to take part.


Same as it ever was.


Meaning?


Meaning Ferrari are the most insular closed off team on the grid. Do they take part in the Montreal raft race? No. Do they take part in the F1 teams E-sports? nope. I read constant complaints from the media that Ferrari do the bare minimum possible.


You're criticizing Ferrari because they don't partake in ancillary activities that don't impact the actual championship they are competing for?

You're making Ferrari out to be lazy, yet they're they only team to compete in EVERY year of the F1 championship, they are primarily the reason a track testing limit is in place, and have invested incredibly heavily and worked so hard to only come up second best to Red Bull and Mercedes over the last decade? I think that's incredibly demeaning to their workers at the factory (and in extension all the hard work Renault and Honda have done as well to catch Mercedes).

Also, Stefano did partake in this Team Principal survey IIRC, which would make this an Arrivebene thing and not a Ferrari thing.


Ferrari have this delusion of grandeur where they think the sport needs then more than they need the sport. It's utter nonsense of course. They epitomize the stereotype that many American motorsports hold about F1, that it is snobby and joyless.

I don't understand the obsession with maintaining a mystique. Nobody in the sporting world is looking at Ferrari and thinking "I wish they'd let us in on the secrets of their inability to win anything for 11 seasons despite enormous resources".


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 08, 2018 9:46 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I don't think it's a criticism of Ferrari just a comment on their lack of cooperation with the media and general fun activities around the sport. They are perfectly allowed to do that of course. It's up to them.


Exactly.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:11 am 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
Ferrari have this delusion of grandeur where they think the sport needs then more than they need the sport. It's utter nonsense of course. They epitomize the stereotype that many American motorsports hold about F1, that it is snobby and joyless.

I don't understand the obsession with maintaining a mystique. Nobody in the sporting world is looking at Ferrari and thinking "I wish they'd let us in on the secrets of their inability to win anything for 11 seasons despite enormous resources".


While I agree with mikey that Honda misunderstood the post he responded to defending Ferrari, I find your post much more less thoughtful, even somewhat ignorant.

Ferrari 's "illusion" of grandeur as you put is based on their accomplishments, not only in the track for the last decade, but for the past 70 years and in much more than F1. Now the uninformed may think that F1 may not need Ferrari, but people who know MUCH more than you do, or I, seem to think differently. Every few months there seems to be some asinine post like yours and I am not going to get involved another multi'page battle over it, but F1 does need Ferrari and would miss them greatly were the to leave. Does Ferrari need F1 more than vis versa? I don't necessarily think so. Ferrari is so well established, that their brand will still sell quite well if they are in F1 or not. Their logo is the most recognized automotive logo in the world, and very near the top in all categories, their is still a waiting list for their cars and special editions such as the "F" series, Enzo, LaFerrai, et are sold out before the first delivery. It is mutually beneficial for BOTH F1 and Ferrari to have Ferrari in F1, but IF it is critical for either of them, it probably not Ferrari, who has multiple ways of promoting their brand.

It is obvious that you are right, you don't "understand the obsession if maintaining a mystique", probably because you are not in the business of catering to a very small, very wealthy demographic of clients. There is a reason that Ferrari has been so successful in the market for so long... Some even call it the mystique. Even though there road cars that have perhaps been even better than the equivalent Ferrari, but they haven't taken out Ferrari, so to speak... Ferrari just keeps rolling.

Lastly, your dig at Ferrari's failure to win a championship over the last decade is very misplaced as well, as they certainly have not been winless, most recently FIVE SEC World GT Constructors championships since 2012! You see there are other racing championships beyond F1. While I have no doubt that Ferrari would love to win F1 championships sooner rather than later, they are exactly destitute.

Ferrari does indeed have a mystique about them, one that they built up, cultivated, maintained...and earn over decades, whether you understand it, or not.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:14 am 
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Blake wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
Ferrari have this delusion of grandeur where they think the sport needs then more than they need the sport. It's utter nonsense of course. They epitomize the stereotype that many American motorsports hold about F1, that it is snobby and joyless.

I don't understand the obsession with maintaining a mystique. Nobody in the sporting world is looking at Ferrari and thinking "I wish they'd let us in on the secrets of their inability to win anything for 11 seasons despite enormous resources".


While I agree with mikey that Honda misunderstood the post he responded to defending Ferrari, I find your post much more less thoughtful, even somewhat ignorant.

Ferrari 's "illusion" of grandeur as you put is based on their accomplishments, not only in the track for the last decade, but for the past 70 years and in much more than F1. Now the uninformed may think that F1 may not need Ferrari, but people who know MUCH more than you do, or I, seem to think differently. Every few months there seems to be some asinine post like yours and I am not going to get involved another multi'page battle over it, but F1 does need Ferrari and would miss them greatly were the to leave. Does Ferrari need F1 more than vis versa? I don't necessarily think so. Ferrari is so well established, that their brand will still sell quite well if they are in F1 or not. Their logo is the most recognized automotive logo in the world, and very near the top in all categories, their is still a waiting list for their cars and special editions such as the "F" series, Enzo, LaFerrai, et are sold out before the first delivery. It is mutually beneficial for BOTH F1 and Ferrari to have Ferrari in F1, but IF it is critical for either of them, it probably not Ferrari, who has multiple ways of promoting their brand.

It is obvious that you are right, you don't "understand the obsession if maintaining a mystique", probably because you are not in the business of catering to a very small, very wealthy demographic of clients. There is a reason that Ferrari has been so successful in the market for so long... Some even call it the mystique. Even though there road cars that have perhaps been even better than the equivalent Ferrari, but they haven't taken out Ferrari, so to speak... Ferrari just keeps rolling.

Lastly, your dig at Ferrari's failure to win a championship over the last decade is very misplaced as well, as they certainly have not been winless, most recently FIVE SEC World GT Constructors championships since 2012! You see there are other racing championships beyond F1. While I have no doubt that Ferrari would love to win F1 championships sooner rather than later, they are exactly destitute.

Ferrari does indeed have a mystique about them, one that they built up, cultivated, maintained...and earn over decades, whether you understand it, or not.


They have cultivated a somewhat deluded cult that thinks they are far more significant than they actually are. The real soul of Ferrari died a long time ago now. These days the history of Ferrari is used as a Fiat marketing ploy.

I'm just sick of the constant threats to quit the sport every time something doesn't go their way. The other motorsport series they compete in have a tiny fraction of the exposure that F1 does. For years they have chiefly used F1 to market their road cars.

The F1 team certainly doesn't need to be so aloof. Mercedes post their own explanaitions of their race strategies on the youtube channel they have. Red Bull are another that are very accessible.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 09, 2018 4:39 pm 
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This thread is meant to be about the ranking of the drivers by the team principals, not Ferrari's decision not to take part.

That is thread worthy, if you want to talk about it, but please start one for it.


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