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 Post subject: The future of F1.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 4:10 am 
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So just watched my first FE race and have to say I was so impressed by what I saw I had to think where does F1 go looking forward to remain the pinnacle of motor sport over the nest 15-20 yrs?

What I took away from the race:

* Gen 2 cars visually looked good and racy
* Race was full of action and enjoyable to watch
* Obviously they sound crap but then again so does the current F1 PU
* Sport seems affordable for for privateer teams to join and be competitive
* 7 car manufactures involved (Jaguar, BMW, Audi, Nissan, DS, NIO, & Mahindra) with at least 2 others (Merc & Porsche) looking to be joining
* Attack mode's a good concept but I think there's scope for further strategic integration into each race
* Fan boost reduces the race in part to a popularity contest and for me really detracts from the integrity of the race.
* With the current rate of battery evolution I can see car speeds being comparable with F1 speeds well within the next decade or 2.
* Battery life should also evolve within the next decade to allow the cars to race for 2 hrs if that's the way they want to take the category.
* Seems to be a distinct lack of political BS in this category due to, from what I can see anyway, the teams being actual participants in the sport and not being in a position where they can actually govern the direction of the sport.
* Races easily available, & free, to watch via live streaming on you tube. Taking the race to the masses.

Now lets consider the quagmire F1 finds itself in at the moment with:

* Prohibitive expense of participation
* Lack of interest from manufacturers outside of the current participants
* Lack of accessibility thanks to the sport being locked behind a TV paywall
* Manufacturers having too much say in the direction of the sport and putting self interest before the sporting interest
* Privateer teams, for almost it's entire history the lifeblood of the sport, now almost reduced to serf status tied to the whims of the "Tier 1" teams with very little or no chance of working their way up to even a podium let alone a win or championship.

So taking into account the all of the above, and the basic fact that manufacturers are looking away from using fossil fuels to power their cars and more towards the use of renewable technology, which FE seems to hold a mortgage on the electrical side of, where does it leave the long term future of F1?

Did LM buy a sport that's in terminal decline ?

Is there anything F1 can do to maintain it's position at the apex of the motorsport tree or, as I now feel after watching the FE race, is it only a matter of time until that category usurps the king and takes the throne?

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 Post subject: Re: The future of F1.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 10:28 am 
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Posts: 1479
In my opinion from yesterday's race.

The sport is 5 years old. And they still can't nail down the world feed I understand there is technical difficulties from time too time but there was a lack of announcements communicated apart from jevs spike penalty. And even then. I don't think there was a graphic.
Graphics. Why do we need too have the massive full course caution painted onto the graphics when it came.
The format was changed on a whim. Qualifying was not the usual qualifying. Not explained properly. And when dillman from what I can make out found a loophole in the regulations. Sent too the back of the grid.
There was some positives. We didn't have a lights failure this year. Which last year led too the race just sitting there for 3 minutes until someone decided too get a flag and deploy the safety car too start the race.

Overall. I don't think batteries will be the future of the sport. Maybe lithium will be developed in bulk. Or a new power mechanism eill be found. But I still feel battery is not powerful and long enough too last long enough for a race that I feel should still be at least 75 minutes long. And we need some.more prestige. Apart from Monaco which returns this year and Mexico. There is nothing permanent in the sport. Street races. It's too tight and doesn't allow for alot of overtaking. Bring them too the short circuits of Silverstone and Austin etc. Not close off a whole city basically just so the city can make a political statement about them being o zone conscious. When in reality. They are just trying g too do what each country is doing in formula 1. Showcasing there country in the best light


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 Post subject: Re: The future of F1.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:20 am 
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Posts: 24104
wire2004 wrote:
In my opinion from yesterday's race.

The sport is 5 years old. And they still can't nail down the world feed I understand there is technical difficulties from time too time but there was a lack of announcements communicated apart from jevs spike penalty. And even then. I don't think there was a graphic.
Graphics. Why do we need too have the massive full course caution painted onto the graphics when it came.
The format was changed on a whim. Qualifying was not the usual qualifying. Not explained properly. And when dillman from what I can make out found a loophole in the regulations. Sent too the back of the grid.
There was some positives. We didn't have a lights failure this year. Which last year led too the race just sitting there for 3 minutes until someone decided too get a flag and deploy the safety car too start the race.

Overall. I don't think batteries will be the future of the sport. Maybe lithium will be developed in bulk. Or a new power mechanism eill be found. But I still feel battery is not powerful and long enough too last long enough for a race that I feel should still be at least 75 minutes long. And we need some.more prestige. Apart from Monaco which returns this year and Mexico. There is nothing permanent in the sport. Street races. It's too tight and doesn't allow for alot of overtaking. Bring them too the short circuits of Silverstone and Austin etc. Not close off a whole city basically just so the city can make a political statement about them being o zone conscious. When in reality. They are just trying g too do what each country is doing in formula 1. Showcasing there country in the best light

BIB: maybe the article below points to a potential future:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/apr/12/worlds-first-electrified-road-for-charging-vehicles-opens-in-sweden

it would probably mean moving away from street circuits and onto purpose-built tracks but that could potentially solve the issue of how long a charge would hold.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of F1.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 11:42 am 
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Eventually F1 will have to become all-electric anyway and I don't see Formula E being relevant at that point.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of F1.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:15 pm 
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I don't think that the comparison to Formula E is entirely fair because of the relative scales of popularity of the two. Many of F1's problems stem from the fact that it is popular, highly commercialised and generates enormous sums of cash; indeed I would propose that all 5 problems listed in the OP are a result of this, or a knock-on effect of the expense of participation. Lots of potential revenue (and brand exposure) means lots of money is spent in the aim of achieving it and lots of big corporate interests at stake. If winning Formula E was as financially lucrative as F1 then I'm sure that many of the same problems would arise. FE is a small investment so the manufacturers are more comfortable with sticking an entry in and seeing what happens; F1 on the other hand has to form the core of their marketing/branding strategy and so they are going to work harder to ensure that it works in their favour.

I admit that I don't watch Formula E, I gave it a chance when it was launched but was unimpressed. It felt closer to a kart race than to a real alternative to F1 and I don't think battery technology is going to be the future for all the world's transportation solutions because of the inherent problems with charge time. If I want to watch a racing series that uses a standard chassis to ensure close competition and with plenty of overtaking and wheel-to-wheel action then F2 is far, far better than FE.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of F1.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 12:25 pm 
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I think if a way could be found to cut the costs of competing most of F1 existential problems could be solved. If you could compete on a $75 mill budget there would be a lot of manufacturers queuing up at the door as well as private teams able to compete.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of F1.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 2:48 pm 
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You mention sound. I wish they would stop 'adding sound' as it is so annoying. 'Woof' when a car passes a camera is the worst of all, and speaking of which, the camera work and direction is dire.
Back to the race, I enjoyed it except for channel hunting, which I thought was gone this year.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of F1.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 3:30 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I think if a way could be found to cut the costs of competing most of F1 existential problems could be solved. If you could compete on a $75 mill budget there would be a lot of manufacturers queuing up at the door as well as private teams able to compete.

There is a simple answer here: to standardise the cars. To many people it is intrinsic to F1's DNA that the teams all design and manufacture their own cars and the mere suggestion of F1 going down the spec car route is sacrilege, but I think the question has to be asked. Most people, particularly the more casual fans, have little to no interest in the engineering competition going on behind the scenes and mostly just want good racing. I have been wondering for the past couple of years whether F1 would be improved by this change of ethos and am becoming increasing convinced of it, ultimately it feels that having 10 teams all show up with their own car they built themselves and then expecting a close competition is a flawed assumption.

So long as the teams remain responsible for engineering the cars, we will always maintain the situation where spending more money on development is rewarded with improved lap times, so they will continue to spend every available penny (and more) in pursuit of performance and so budgets will always be stretched to their absolute limit.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of F1.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 5:54 pm 
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I just assumed everyone knew, and was of the opinion, that F-e is a proving ground for future F1 tech. F1 will eventually morph into F-e once the tech is right, bringing along the the F1 spectacle and circus.


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 Post subject: Re: The future of F1.
PostPosted: Sun Dec 16, 2018 7:37 pm 
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I watched the Ad Diriyah race this morning. I thought it was fairly enjoyable. There was some good racing but some drawbacks.

Came away with some ideas.

1. They do need to keep working on extending the battery life and the race distance with the ability to race on longer tracks with significant elevation change.
2. The Ad Diriyah track is way too much of a concrete canyon. The track looks way too cramped and one almost gets claustrophobic watching the racing.
3. Would like to hear the feasibility of batteries that could be changed under pit stop conditions.
4. Trash the "Fan Boost". This is supposed to be racing not a popularity contest.
5. It's good to hear Bob Varsha and Dario Franchitti again. They are two of the best broadcasters out there IMHO.
6. I am hoping that there will eventually be a bit more room for chassis and bodywork innovation. All of the cars looking exactly the same except for graphics doesn't work too well for me. This does not mean I want the aerodynamic mess that currently occupies Formula 1.
7. Attack Mode suffers from the same problem that Indycar Push to pass does. It is an artificial addition that can only be used for a limited time and a gimmick. The Drag Reduction System of Formula 1 at least can be used every lap except for the first two laps and the first two laps after a safety car.

Congratulations to Antonio Da Costa on the race win. I suspect I will be watching more of the races for this season.

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