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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:33 pm 
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Invade wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Apparently Verstappen has a performance clause in his contract and could leave Red Bull at the end of this year, Hamilton and Verstappen at Mercedes against Vettel and Leclerc at Ferrari, wow. 8O


Now that's the dream. Let's get all the best drivers in the best cars.

Bottas had better bounce back bigtime should RBR flounder badly this season. ;)

That would make 2020 the best F1 season perhaps ever


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:55 pm 
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I don't really understand all the bounce back stuff, bounce back to what?

Ignoring the Russian GP which is an anomaly for him where he is very strong. He basically 2-3 of three strong weekends in 2017 but was poor in over half the races. 2018 was the same, a strong 2-3 races (which was more likely Hamilton actually under performing - China, Baku etc) and poor in about half the races. Both seasons have played out very similarly, that is his level which is miles off Hamilton about 50% of the time, close but behind Hamilton 30% of the time, close but ahead of Hamilton - 10% and signifcantly quicker than Hamilton - 10%.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:17 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
I don't really understand all the bounce back stuff, bounce back to what?

Ignoring the Russian GP which is an anomaly for him where he is very strong. He basically 2-3 of three strong weekends in 2017 but was poor in over half the races. 2018 was the same, a strong 2-3 races (which was more likely Hamilton actually under performing - China, Baku etc) and poor in about half the races. Both seasons have played out very similarly, that is his level which is miles off Hamilton about 50% of the time, close but behind Hamilton 30% of the time, close but ahead of Hamilton - 10% and signifcantly quicker than Hamilton - 10%.


This.

At the moment his recent results have not really strayed outside the percentages that you suggested, so there is no observable improvement in Bottas yet. :-)


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 1:11 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Johnson wrote:
I don't really understand all the bounce back stuff, bounce back to what?

Ignoring the Russian GP which is an anomaly for him where he is very strong. He basically 2-3 of three strong weekends in 2017 but was poor in over half the races. 2018 was the same, a strong 2-3 races (which was more likely Hamilton actually under performing - China, Baku etc) and poor in about half the races. Both seasons have played out very similarly, that is his level which is miles off Hamilton about 50% of the time, close but behind Hamilton 30% of the time, close but ahead of Hamilton - 10% and signifcantly quicker than Hamilton - 10%.


This.

At the moment his recent results have not really strayed outside the percentages that you suggested, so there is no observable improvement in Bottas yet. :-)


True.

You could almost change the name to Sebastian Vettel and let it run!!!!


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 11:20 pm 
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After Quali in Shanghai I would say that Valtteri is starting to put on more of a show than he has in his previous seasons at Mercedes. If he cruises to victory tomorrow, we are going to have to wonder, what has changed since last year between Valtteri and Lewis.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:00 am 
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Mort Canard wrote:
After Quali in Shanghai I would say that Valtteri is starting to put on more of a show than he has in his previous seasons at Mercedes. If he cruises to victory tomorrow, we are going to have to wonder, what has changed since last year between Valtteri and Lewis.


Qualifying score between Hamilton and Bottas in 2019 through China: 2-1 Hamilton
Qualifying score between Hamilton and Bottas in 2018 through China: 2-1 Bottas

Bottas also had the chance for GP wins in the early part of 2018 but Vettel put in a feisty drive in Bahrain, RBR punished strategic complacency in China and Bottas got royally pooped in Baku.

So what's really the difference.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:15 am 
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Invade wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
After Quali in Shanghai I would say that Valtteri is starting to put on more of a show than he has in his previous seasons at Mercedes. If he cruises to victory tomorrow, we are going to have to wonder, what has changed since last year between Valtteri and Lewis.


Qualifying score between Hamilton and Bottas in 2019 through China: 2-1 Hamilton
Qualifying score between Hamilton and Bottas in 2018 through China: 2-1 Bottas

Bottas also had the chance for GP wins in the early part of 2018 but Vettel put in a feisty drive in Bahrain, RBR punished strategic complacency in China and Bottas got royally pooped in Baku.

So what's really the difference.


Exactly. I think some people are way overreacting here to VB massively turning around his pace. If he's leading the championship after 6 rounds then a case can possibly be made for improvement, but for now it's way too soon.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 12:57 am 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Invade wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
After Quali in Shanghai I would say that Valtteri is starting to put on more of a show than he has in his previous seasons at Mercedes. If he cruises to victory tomorrow, we are going to have to wonder, what has changed since last year between Valtteri and Lewis.


Qualifying score between Hamilton and Bottas in 2019 through China: 2-1 Hamilton
Qualifying score between Hamilton and Bottas in 2018 through China: 2-1 Bottas

Bottas also had the chance for GP wins in the early part of 2018 but Vettel put in a feisty drive in Bahrain, RBR punished strategic complacency in China and Bottas got royally pooped in Baku.

So what's really the difference.


Exactly. I think some people are way overreacting here to VB massively turning around his pace. If he's leading the championship after 6 rounds then a case can possibly be made for improvement, but for now it's way too soon.


Well, If he wins tomorrow that means he has gotten it done twice whereas he didn't do it once in 2018. From where Valtteri sits a very small improvement over 2018 could mean a lot more success. As you pointed out he was not that far off in 2018.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:51 am 
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Bottas has started well aside from a possibly plastic bag hampered Bahrain, but he cannot let his level drop one bit. If Hamilton stretches out the gap over the next few races and then Ferrari start getting it right then he could be dumped back into a number 2 role.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:14 am 
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Invade wrote:
Mort Canard wrote:
After Quali in Shanghai I would say that Valtteri is starting to put on more of a show than he has in his previous seasons at Mercedes. If he cruises to victory tomorrow, we are going to have to wonder, what has changed since last year between Valtteri and Lewis.


Qualifying score between Hamilton and Bottas in 2019 through China: 2-1 Hamilton
Qualifying score between Hamilton and Bottas in 2018 through China: 2-1 Bottas

Bottas also had the chance for GP wins in the early part of 2018 but Vettel put in a feisty drive in Bahrain, RBR punished strategic complacency in China and Bottas got royally pooped in Baku.

So what's really the difference.


On track, Bottas was actaully 2-0 up in 2018. Hamilton 1 was when Bottas crashed out in Australia. But, Bahrain 2018, Hamilton had a grid penalty, sub optimum strategy and was 12 seconds adrift by the time he cleared the cars his penalty put him behind. So comparisons are a bit clouded to last year. His pace seems about the same as the start of last year to me. The key difference being the error in Australian Gp qualifying in 2018.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:22 pm 
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Well, Valtteri didn't show any performance advantage over Lewis today, but he didn't give up much either. Will have to see how the rest of the season progresses. Right now he seems to be the only one who can stand between LH and #6.

I have to say that Valtteri does seem to be a little less happy to come second to Lewis this year. I am guessing he has realized that this is his make or break year. in the Merc.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 1:46 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Well, Valtteri didn't show any performance advantage over Lewis today, but he didn't give up much either. Will have to see how the rest of the season progresses. Right now he seems to be the only one who can stand between LH and #6.

I have to say that Valtteri does seem to be a little less happy to come second to Lewis this year. I am guessing he has realized that this is his make or break year. in the Merc.


Lewis could have been managing his pace though because the Ferrari's were so slow. Lewis was mentioning about if Valteri was being pressured towards the end because Lewis wanted to drive at an even slower pace to save engine life, so he was likely driving within himself for large parts of the race.

In Bahrain, had the Ferrari's not been quick and forced Lewis to go as fast as he could, then maybe he would have managed the gap to Valteri there too instead of thrashing him, for example.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 2:45 pm 
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Mort Canard wrote:
Well, Valtteri didn't show any performance advantage over Lewis today, but he didn't give up much either. Will have to see how the rest of the season progresses. Right now he seems to be the only one who can stand between LH and #6.

I have to say that Valtteri does seem to be a little less happy to come second to Lewis this year. I am guessing he has realized that this is his make or break year. in the Merc.


I am not suggesting Bottas was slow today, but if Hamilton is leading and Bottas is 2nd, Hamilton will never pull a huge gap. Hamilton wins the race as slowly as possible these days, if his team mate is behind him and he knows he can't run a different strategy to him - he gets a 5-6 second gap and manages it. This is especially so after Malaysia 2016, Hamilton is constantly preserving his engine these days whenever he can.

The only times you see Hamilton have a huge gap over Bottas in a race is when Hamilton has to push hard to fight another car, usually Vettel and both of them leave Bottas.


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