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Which Racing Point Force India driver will win their 2019 TMW?
Poll ended at Tue Dec 25, 2018 8:10 am
Sergio Perez 87%  87%  [ 20 ]
Lance Stroll 13%  13%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 23
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:10 am 
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At the moment, we don't know what the team that finished the 2018 season as Racing Point Force India will actually be called in 2019. What we do know is that their line-up will be a mixture of old and new, as Sergio Perez continues with the Silverstone-based team for a fifth successive year while Lance Stroll joins from Williams.

It's an interesting pairing made all the more intriguing by virtue of Lance Stroll's father, Lawrence, leading the takeover of the Force India team. After all, in his four previous seasons with the team, Sergio Perez's hefty Mexican backing had given him some additional security. Even at the lowest point in the fractured relationship between himself and Ocon, Perez would've known that the team were pretty reliant on the sponsorship money that came with him. While it didn't make him bulletproof it did at least afford him a longer leash than he otherwise would've had. Yet heading into 2019 the tables will be turned. Instead of Perez being in that position, it'll be Lance Stroll who knows he can almost get away with murder. He also goes into the new season with a lot of people expecting him to comfortably handle Lance, something that could add extra pressure, particularly if things don't work out that way. There is also the possibility that Lance will end up being favoured by the team, and if that's the case it'll be interesting to see how the sometimes hot-headed Mexican handles that...

For Lance Stroll, it should be a definitive step up from the woeful Williams of 2018. While he did have a midfield-ish car in 2017, which of course allowed him to become the second-youngest podium finisher in F1 history, it was also his rookie season. With this being his third year in F1 expectations will inevitably be higher, while Sergio Perez should provide him with a tougher test than Sirotkin did this year. There are certainly those of us who didn't feel like he particularly dominated Sirotkin, especially when it came to qualifying, and so will need to up his performances significantly if he is to match Perez. But at the same time he'll be racing for his dad's team, so the possibility of favouritism is there and that could have an impact on the performances of the two drivers... if you believe that would happen in F1, anyway.

So with all that in mind, who will have the better year at whatever the Force India team is called in 2019: Sergio Perez or Lance Stroll?

Completed Polls
Sauber: Kimi Raikkonen 88% - 12% Antonio Giovinazzi
Toro Rosso: Daniil Kvyat 60% - 40% Alex Albon
Williams: George Russell 75% - 25% Robert Kubica

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:03 am 
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I foresee Perez absolutely dominating Stroll, to be honest.

This one is only interesting because of the question: how much has Stroll really improved since 2017? If he hasn't improved, Perez will destroy him the same way Massa did (or worse). But if he has, masked by his poor car and unknown teammate last year, then it's possible he will be closer to Perez than any of us expect.

Even so, however, I can't imagine he'll beat Perez. I would bet a very sizable amount of real money that Perez will win this one - one of only perhaps three pairings on the grid I would be willing to extend that same bet to.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 10:44 am 
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Exediron wrote:
I foresee Perez absolutely dominating Stroll, to be honest.

This one is only interesting because of the question: how much has Stroll really improved since 2017? If he hasn't improved, Perez will destroy him the same way Massa did (or worse). But if he has, masked by his poor car and unknown teammate last year, then it's possible he will be closer to Perez than any of us expect.

Even so, however, I can't imagine he'll beat Perez. I would bet a very sizable amount of real money that Perez will win this one - one of only perhaps three pairings on the grid I would be willing to extend that same bet to.


This. Although, I do think that Stroll will shine some weekends, he should show his talent. I hope for equal treatment (well, cough cough there) between the two. The one thing that Stroll has to demonstrate is working under the spotlight, a lot of people will be saying that he got the seat because of his money, blah-blah; he will have to put the show on.

It will be an interesting battle to watch


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:34 am 
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PĂ©rez by a landslide.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 12:50 pm 
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All things being equal, I would expect Perez to outperform Stroll. I wouldn't be shocked if Stroll isn't that far away from Perez in quali as I don't really rate either particularly highly over one lap, but Perez's experience, race pace and tyre management will give him a decisive edge on Sundays.

What throws me slightly is whether all things will be equal. Lance is racing for his dad's team, after all. I would not be shocked if he gets preferential treatment in terms of upgrades, strategy and even if there are any on-track incidents between the two. If that's how things end up playing out then I could actually see it being quite close between them, although even then I suspect Perez would still edge it.

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2018: 5th | 2017: 6th | 2016: 8th | 2015: 2nd | 2014: 15th | 2013: 17th | 2012: 11th


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:54 pm 
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We actually don't know exactly how good Stroll is, you have to give some leeway to a rookie although Stroll was quite a slow rookie, then against Sirotkin he didn't seem to have great speed.

Perez will easily beat Stroll given Stroll's current level of performance, the question is how much can Stroll improve.

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Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 5:57 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
All things being equal, I would expect Perez to outperform Stroll. I wouldn't be shocked if Stroll isn't that far away from Perez in quali as I don't really rate either particularly highly over one lap, but Perez's experience, race pace and tyre management will give him a decisive edge on Sundays.

What throws me slightly is whether all things will be equal. Lance is racing for his dad's team, after all. I would not be shocked if he gets preferential treatment in terms of upgrades, strategy and even if there are any on-track incidents between the two. If that's how things end up playing out then I could actually see it being quite close between them, although even then I suspect Perez would still edge it.

Perez brings quite a bit of money to the team and he's not shy, any unequality towards him and I'm sure he will kick up a fair stink about it.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:22 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
All things being equal, I would expect Perez to outperform Stroll. I wouldn't be shocked if Stroll isn't that far away from Perez in quali as I don't really rate either particularly highly over one lap, but Perez's experience, race pace and tyre management will give him a decisive edge on Sundays.

What throws me slightly is whether all things will be equal. Lance is racing for his dad's team, after all. I would not be shocked if he gets preferential treatment in terms of upgrades, strategy and even if there are any on-track incidents between the two. If that's how things end up playing out then I could actually see it being quite close between them, although even then I suspect Perez would still edge it.

Perez brings quite a bit of money to the team and he's not shy, any unequality towards him and I'm sure he will kick up a fair stink about it.


Plus he will have the team's love and support after he pretty much saved their jobs I guess.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:15 pm 
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One of the easier one's. I don't think Stroll is up to much so like many others expect this to be comfortable for Perez but maybe Stroll will surprise us a bit.

Interested to hear from those voting for Stroll, or are they just being mischievous?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 7:49 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
All things being equal, I would expect Perez to outperform Stroll. I wouldn't be shocked if Stroll isn't that far away from Perez in quali as I don't really rate either particularly highly over one lap, but Perez's experience, race pace and tyre management will give him a decisive edge on Sundays.

What throws me slightly is whether all things will be equal. Lance is racing for his dad's team, after all. I would not be shocked if he gets preferential treatment in terms of upgrades, strategy and even if there are any on-track incidents between the two. If that's how things end up playing out then I could actually see it being quite close between them, although even then I suspect Perez would still edge it.

Perez brings quite a bit of money to the team and he's not shy, any unequality towards him and I'm sure he will kick up a fair stink about it.


Yes, and that gave him a lot of weight when Force India were relying so heavily on the money that came with him. However they now have a guy running the team who is worth 2.7 billion. I'm not saying Lawrence Stroll is just going to wave goodbye to Perez's sponsors - you don't end up being worth nearly 3 billion by making dumb financial decisions! - but I would suspect that compared to the financial links Lance Stroll enjoys, Perez's financial backing is going to afford him a lot less weight in 2019 than it did this season.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 18, 2018 11:42 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Yes, and that gave him a lot of weight when Force India were relying so heavily on the money that came with him. However they now have a guy running the team who is worth 2.7 billion. I'm not saying Lawrence Stroll is just going to wave goodbye to Perez's sponsors - you don't end up being worth nearly 3 billion by making dumb financial decisions! - but I would suspect that compared to the financial links Lance Stroll enjoys, Perez's financial backing is going to afford him a lot less weight in 2019 than it did this season.

In point of fact, Perez's backers are a substantial amount richer than Lawrence Stroll. In the billionaire pond, Stroll is a very little fish and the man behind many of Perez's backer companies (Carlos Slim) is one of the biggest there is.

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PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 14 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:22 am 
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I am quite surprised how people are writing Stroll off, I guess it has to do with him being rich.

I suppose if team principal comes out to say Stroll is as fast as Ocon in the simulators, its not enough for armchair experts their own knowledge of alternative facts is enough.

The results Stroll has so far in F1 is good and if Ocon was as good as the hype he'd be in F1, next year folks might be in for a surprise, Kimi explains this well in his book "The Unknown" where people look at team mates and compare without realising the other factors, whereas the team knows the result achieved is above the expectation of current situation.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:47 am 
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Rockie wrote:
I am quite surprised how people are writing Stroll off, I guess it has to do with him being rich.

I suppose if team principal comes out to say Stroll is as fast as Ocon in the simulators, its not enough for armchair experts their own knowledge of alternative facts is enough.

The results Stroll has so far in F1 is good and if Ocon was as good as the hype he'd be in F1, next year folks might be in for a surprise, Kimi explains this well in his book "The Unknown" where people look at team mates and compare without realising the other factors, whereas the team knows the result achieved is above the expectation of current situation.


Stroll's results in F1 are good? Getting destroyed by old Massa and outqualified by paydriver Sirotkin is good? The only reason why Ocon is not in F1 this year is because Papa Stroll bought his team and replaced him by his son - end of story. Stroll is probably not as bad as some people think but he's not any kind of underrated driver, just solid driver who is not really on F1 level so I voted Sergio.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:23 pm 
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Mayox wrote:
Rockie wrote:
I am quite surprised how people are writing Stroll off, I guess it has to do with him being rich.

I suppose if team principal comes out to say Stroll is as fast as Ocon in the simulators, its not enough for armchair experts their own knowledge of alternative facts is enough.

The results Stroll has so far in F1 is good and if Ocon was as good as the hype he'd be in F1, next year folks might be in for a surprise, Kimi explains this well in his book "The Unknown" where people look at team mates and compare without realising the other factors, whereas the team knows the result achieved is above the expectation of current situation.


Stroll's results in F1 are good? Getting destroyed by old Massa and outqualified by paydriver Sirotkin is good? The only reason why Ocon is not in F1 this year is because Papa Stroll bought his team and replaced him by his son - end of story. Stroll is probably not as bad as some people think but he's not any kind of underrated driver, just solid driver who is not really on F1 level so I voted Sergio.

Indeed if decisions were based purely on results then Ocon would be racing for Racing Point and not Stroll.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 1:30 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Yes, and that gave him a lot of weight when Force India were relying so heavily on the money that came with him. However they now have a guy running the team who is worth 2.7 billion. I'm not saying Lawrence Stroll is just going to wave goodbye to Perez's sponsors - you don't end up being worth nearly 3 billion by making dumb financial decisions! - but I would suspect that compared to the financial links Lance Stroll enjoys, Perez's financial backing is going to afford him a lot less weight in 2019 than it did this season.

In point of fact, Perez's backers are a substantial amount richer than Lawrence Stroll. In the billionaire pond, Stroll is a very little fish and the man behind many of Perez's backer companies (Carlos Slim) is one of the biggest there is.


As true as that is, Slim's net worth is also irrelevant because he is only paying a set amount to the team per year. If Perez were to leave the team then Lawrence Stroll doesn't have to find a way to replace Carlos Slim's net worth; all he has to do is replace the lost sponsorship money, which he has the wealth to be able to do if he chose to.

Again, that's not to say he's going to be wishing Perez away but the big difference is that up until the change in ownership, if Perez had left the team and taken his sponsorship money with him then Force India would've been screwed. That's no longer the case, so Perez's value to the team has been weakened.

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:25 pm 
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It always surprises me how many people automatically jump to Stroll's defense when other people are saying Driver X is better than him. I really haven't seen anything that would suggest he's up to the level he's sometimes marketed to be.

That being said, my reason for saying Perez by a landslide is that I actually rate Perez very highly. In fact, I would only feel comfortable betting against him when paired with Hamilton, Verstappen, Vettel and Leclerc. All the other drivers on the grid would struggle immensely to beat him or simply fail miserably.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:31 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
I am quite surprised how people are writing Stroll off, I guess it has to do with him being rich.

It has more to do with him being absolutely and completely dominated by a man at the edge of retirement. Massa beat Stroll by a margin very similar to Hulk vs. Palmer, and I think Stroll = Palmer is about on the money. People didn't write Palmer off because he was rich, either - they wrote him off because he was totally exposed by Hulk.

Now, Stroll was a rookie in 2017, which is his only saving grace. But the reason people write him off is everything to do with on-track results and very little to do with his background.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 22, 2018 1:09 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
I am quite surprised how people are writing Stroll off, I guess it has to do with him being rich.

I suppose if team principal comes out to say Stroll is as fast as Ocon in the simulators, its not enough for armchair experts their own knowledge of alternative facts is enough.

The results Stroll has so far in F1 is good and if Ocon was as good as the hype he'd be in F1, next year folks might be in for a surprise, Kimi explains this well in his book "The Unknown" where people look at team mates and compare without realising the other factors, whereas the team knows the result achieved is above the expectation of current situation.


You do seem to have this obsessive and primal need to defend Stroll from perfectly justifiable criticism like he's an unfortunate victim of class war. I guess the fact that Williams are pleased to see the back of him despite all the money means nothing either.

Anyway in my armchair opinion Perez will outscore Stroll by a points ratio of at least 2:1. If Stroll is as good as you seem to think he is then it's strange that there has never been any interest in him from teams that aren't relying on Lawrence Stroll's money. Funny that.


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