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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 2:15 am 
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aice wrote:
Invade wrote:
Rockie wrote:
Lol this conversations of Vettel vs Leclerc are quite funny and sounds like musings of a 6 year old as its not based on evidence rather what people want to happen.

So on one hand Vettel though made mistakes last year but his speed was still intact, but somehow Leclerc will "destroy" him so to put it in perspective should we say half s second between Them, or what will it be?


Vettel will beat Leclerc.


Re Vettel v Leclerc, Vettel to be given early priority (if required):

http://f1i.com/news/330055-vettel-prior ... dmits.html

Basically a similar set up to what Alonso had at McLaren in 2007, in respect to Vettel I would be guessing that initially he will have priority on pit stops?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 5:31 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Basically a similar set up to what Alonso had at McLaren in 2007, in respect to Vettel I would be guessing that initially he will have priority on pit stops?

Shouldn't matter as much, since qualifying fuel was the most important part of driver prioritizing back in 2007. If Leclerc is able to qualify ahead, they'll have a hard time giving Vettel any meaningful priority in the races.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 7:04 am 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Basically a similar set up to what Alonso had at McLaren in 2007, in respect to Vettel I would be guessing that initially he will have priority on pit stops?

Shouldn't matter as much, since qualifying fuel was the most important part of driver prioritizing back in 2007. If Leclerc is able to qualify ahead, they'll have a hard time giving Vettel any meaningful priority in the races.


And what do you read into this idea that Vettel should easily handle Leclerc in qualifying if things stay as they were last year, with Vettel putting his best sectors together in his fastest lap 11 times and Leclerc only 3 times IIRC...?

I think Vettel will beat Leclerc this year, but read very little into these stats. Leclerc smashed his teammate in qualifying and Ferrari is always there in Q3 to use their most powerful mode, of which they've had a history of only giving it full beans on the very last run - though this seemed to be more the case in 2017 than 2018. Of course a Ferrari driver was going to lead such a statistic with the way they operate.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 8:46 am 
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Invade wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Basically a similar set up to what Alonso had at McLaren in 2007, in respect to Vettel I would be guessing that initially he will have priority on pit stops?

Shouldn't matter as much, since qualifying fuel was the most important part of driver prioritizing back in 2007. If Leclerc is able to qualify ahead, they'll have a hard time giving Vettel any meaningful priority in the races.

And what do you read into this idea that Vettel should easily handle Leclerc in qualifying if things stay as they were last year, with Vettel putting his best sectors together in his fastest lap 11 times and Leclerc only 3 times IIRC...?

I think Vettel will beat Leclerc this year, but read very little into these stats. Leclerc smashed his teammate in qualifying and Ferrari is always there in Q3 to use their most powerful mode, of which they've had a history of only giving it full beans on the very last run - though this seemed to be more the case in 2017 than 2018. Of course a Ferrari driver was going to lead such a statistic with the way they operate.

It depends on how close Vettel and Leclerc are in terms of basic speed. Often throughout 2018, the difference between the Ferrari drivers was simply that Vettel put his sectors together - there were a number of times where Kimi would have taken pole with a similar perfect lap. It remains to be seen if this tendency of Leclerc's will carry through to Ferrari, but it could potentially make a difference if it does.

Of course, if Leclerc is more than about a tenth faster than Vettel, it won't matter anyway. Similarly, if Vettel is not only more consistent but faster, it will become a moot point very quickly.

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 1:03 pm 
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Invade wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Basically a similar set up to what Alonso had at McLaren in 2007, in respect to Vettel I would be guessing that initially he will have priority on pit stops?

Shouldn't matter as much, since qualifying fuel was the most important part of driver prioritizing back in 2007. If Leclerc is able to qualify ahead, they'll have a hard time giving Vettel any meaningful priority in the races.


And what do you read into this idea that Vettel should easily handle Leclerc in qualifying if things stay as they were last year, with Vettel putting his best sectors together in his fastest lap 11 times and Leclerc only 3 times IIRC...?

I think Vettel will beat Leclerc this year, but read very little into these stats. Leclerc smashed his teammate in qualifying and Ferrari is always there in Q3 to use their most powerful mode, of which they've had a history of only giving it full beans on the very last run - though this seemed to be more the case in 2017 than 2018. Of course a Ferrari driver was going to lead such a statistic with the way they operate.



That is a interesting statistics but I think 3 things are at play here.

1) every lap in Q is a full push lap for Leclerc and likely all on the same mode. He can easily do 4 runs if he makes q2 which he usually did. 5-6 runs if he makes Q3.

2) Vettel essentially has 2 pushing runs in Q3 and either down to mode or making the first run a banker. Vettel is usually always quicker on the second of those runs but quite a big margin - suggesting a lot is in hand on run 1.

So I think a lot of this is down to team approach to qualifying and the fact Leclerc is pushing every lap in Q1,Q2 and Q3. It also misses the occasions a driver was quicker in 2 sectors and marginally slower/equal but slower in the third.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 9:46 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Basically a similar set up to what Alonso had at McLaren in 2007, in respect to Vettel I would be guessing that initially he will have priority on pit stops?

Shouldn't matter as much, since qualifying fuel was the most important part of driver prioritizing back in 2007. If Leclerc is able to qualify ahead, they'll have a hard time giving Vettel any meaningful priority in the races.

That's were pit stop priority comes into play, this is what he is said to have had with Kimi.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2019 10:06 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
Invade wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Basically a similar set up to what Alonso had at McLaren in 2007, in respect to Vettel I would be guessing that initially he will have priority on pit stops?

Shouldn't matter as much, since qualifying fuel was the most important part of driver prioritizing back in 2007. If Leclerc is able to qualify ahead, they'll have a hard time giving Vettel any meaningful priority in the races.


And what do you read into this idea that Vettel should easily handle Leclerc in qualifying if things stay as they were last year, with Vettel putting his best sectors together in his fastest lap 11 times and Leclerc only 3 times IIRC...?

I think Vettel will beat Leclerc this year, but read very little into these stats. Leclerc smashed his teammate in qualifying and Ferrari is always there in Q3 to use their most powerful mode, of which they've had a history of only giving it full beans on the very last run - though this seemed to be more the case in 2017 than 2018. Of course a Ferrari driver was going to lead such a statistic with the way they operate.



That is a interesting statistics but I think 3 things are at play here.

1) every lap in Q is a full push lap for Leclerc and likely all on the same mode. He can easily do 4 runs if he makes q2 which he usually did. 5-6 runs if he makes Q3.

2) Vettel essentially has 2 pushing runs in Q3 and either down to mode or making the first run a banker. Vettel is usually always quicker on the second of those runs but quite a big margin - suggesting a lot is in hand on run 1.

So I think a lot of this is down to team approach to qualifying and the fact Leclerc is pushing every lap in Q1,Q2 and Q3. It also misses the occasions a driver was quicker in 2 sectors and marginally slower/equal but slower in the third.

Indeed the more flat out runs you make then the harder it is to post all the fastest sectors in the one lap.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 18, 2019 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Wed Nov 27, 2013 11:13 am
Posts: 1970
pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Invade wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Basically a similar set up to what Alonso had at McLaren in 2007, in respect to Vettel I would be guessing that initially he will have priority on pit stops?

Shouldn't matter as much, since qualifying fuel was the most important part of driver prioritizing back in 2007. If Leclerc is able to qualify ahead, they'll have a hard time giving Vettel any meaningful priority in the races.


And what do you read into this idea that Vettel should easily handle Leclerc in qualifying if things stay as they were last year, with Vettel putting his best sectors together in his fastest lap 11 times and Leclerc only 3 times IIRC...?

I think Vettel will beat Leclerc this year, but read very little into these stats. Leclerc smashed his teammate in qualifying and Ferrari is always there in Q3 to use their most powerful mode, of which they've had a history of only giving it full beans on the very last run - though this seemed to be more the case in 2017 than 2018. Of course a Ferrari driver was going to lead such a statistic with the way they operate.



That is a interesting statistics but I think 3 things are at play here.

1) every lap in Q is a full push lap for Leclerc and likely all on the same mode. He can easily do 4 runs if he makes q2 which he usually did. 5-6 runs if he makes Q3.

2) Vettel essentially has 2 pushing runs in Q3 and either down to mode or making the first run a banker. Vettel is usually always quicker on the second of those runs but quite a big margin - suggesting a lot is in hand on run 1.

So I think a lot of this is down to team approach to qualifying and the fact Leclerc is pushing every lap in Q1,Q2 and Q3. It also misses the occasions a driver was quicker in 2 sectors and marginally slower/equal but slower in the third.

Indeed the more flat out runs you make then the harder it is to post all the fastest sectors in the one lap.


They say practice makes perfect, when it comes to consistent laps no one comes close to Vettel, there is a reason he's top of that list.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 9:36 pm 
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Rockie wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
Invade wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Shouldn't matter as much, since qualifying fuel was the most important part of driver prioritizing back in 2007. If Leclerc is able to qualify ahead, they'll have a hard time giving Vettel any meaningful priority in the races.


And what do you read into this idea that Vettel should easily handle Leclerc in qualifying if things stay as they were last year, with Vettel putting his best sectors together in his fastest lap 11 times and Leclerc only 3 times IIRC...?

I think Vettel will beat Leclerc this year, but read very little into these stats. Leclerc smashed his teammate in qualifying and Ferrari is always there in Q3 to use their most powerful mode, of which they've had a history of only giving it full beans on the very last run - though this seemed to be more the case in 2017 than 2018. Of course a Ferrari driver was going to lead such a statistic with the way they operate.



That is a interesting statistics but I think 3 things are at play here.

1) every lap in Q is a full push lap for Leclerc and likely all on the same mode. He can easily do 4 runs if he makes q2 which he usually did. 5-6 runs if he makes Q3.

2) Vettel essentially has 2 pushing runs in Q3 and either down to mode or making the first run a banker. Vettel is usually always quicker on the second of those runs but quite a big margin - suggesting a lot is in hand on run 1.

So I think a lot of this is down to team approach to qualifying and the fact Leclerc is pushing every lap in Q1,Q2 and Q3. It also misses the occasions a driver was quicker in 2 sectors and marginally slower/equal but slower in the third.

Indeed the more flat out runs you make then the harder it is to post all the fastest sectors in the one lap.


They say practice makes perfect, when it comes to consistent laps no one comes close to Vettel, there is a reason he's top of that list.

It's interesting that this comparison has been brought up during testing, Leclerc thus far is less than a tenth slower than Vettel, then criticism was made of Leclerc for not being able to hook up his sectors because ultimately he could have been over 3 tenths quicker than Vettel, this cycles back to something I've said before that being consistent doesn't mean that you are ultimately the quickest.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:00 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
It's interesting that this comparison has been brought up during testing, Leclerc thus far is less than a tenth slower than Vettel, then criticism was made of Leclerc for not being able to hook up his sectors because ultimately he could have been over 3 tenths quicker than Vettel, this cycles back to something I've said before that being consistent doesn't mean that you are ultimately the quickest.


Yes obviously there is a crossover. Not much point in being the quickest guy out there if you're only the quickest in one out of 20 scenarios.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:45 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
It's interesting that this comparison has been brought up during testing, Leclerc thus far is less than a tenth slower than Vettel, then criticism was made of Leclerc for not being able to hook up his sectors because ultimately he could have been over 3 tenths quicker than Vettel, this cycles back to something I've said before that being consistent doesn't mean that you are ultimately the quickest.


Yes obviously there is a crossover. Not much point in being the quickest guy out there if you're only the quickest in one out of 20 scenarios.

There's something that doesn't add up though, Leclerc qualifies poorly yet he destroyed Ericsson, Vettel was the most consistent qualifier last season yet his gap to Kimi was only his 3rd best out of 4 seasons, I'm not convinced by the reasoning.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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