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Which driver will win the Ferrari PF1 TMW vote in 2019?
Poll ended at Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:02 am
Sebastian Vettel 78%  78%  [ 25 ]
Charles Leclerc 22%  22%  [ 7 ]
Total votes : 32
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:02 am 
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The last of the ten TMW predictions threads could actually be the most competitive yet as it focuses on Ferrari, where four-time World Champion Sebastian Vettel is up against former GP3 and F2 Champion Charles Leclerc.

On the face of it, you might question how competitive it will actually be. Sure, Charles had a phenomenal junior career, and his rookie season was raved about. However, 2019 will only be his second season in F1 and he's up against a guy who has won four WDC. Considering Ferrari have already come out and said they will put their weight behind Seb Vettel from an early stage of the season if they need to, it would suggest the writing is on the wall with regards to Leclerc's initial position in the team. But there was a caveat, and that is that Ferrari are here to win. If Ferrari are the team to beat and Leclerc were to hit the ground running - perhaps aided by Vettel suffering some misfortune and losing points - then it's possible that Ferrari could yet reconsider that stance.

It doesn't hurt Leclerc that Vettel's performances in 2018 were somewhat divisive, perhaps not in Ferrari's eyes but certainly for those observing from the outside. Could he have won the WDC with less mistakes? Was he overdriving to compensate for failings on the team's part? As a team, were Ferrari not operating smoothly enough to allow Vettel to focus on driving the car? All are valid questions, all would split opinions. Depending on what you believe, you might look at Vettel as vulnerable, at risk of once again being exposed by a fast young teammate. Alternatively you might believe that Vettel doesn't get the credit he deserves, and that 2019 is going to be the year where he proves all his doubters wrong. You might also think that Charles Leclerc's performances as a rookie were flattered by racing alongside Marcus Ericsson, or that the way he outperformed a more experienced driver in his first season justified the hype it has generated. The point is that there are lots of ways to look at what happened in 2018 for both Vettel and Leclerc, even going back further with Vettel to his final season at Red Bull alongside Daniel Ricciardo.

So, over to you, PF1 forum. Will it be Sebastian Vettel who takes the TMW honours at Ferrari, putting the young upstart Leclerc in his place, or will Leclerc continue his rise to prominence by upsetting the four time WDC in his first year with the Scuderia?

Results So Far:
Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton 96% - 4% Valtteri Bottas
Red Bull: Max Verstappen 94% - 6% Pierre Gasly
Renault: Daniel Ricciardo 87% - 13% Nico Hulkenberg
Haas: Romain Grosjean 83% - 17% Kevin Magnussen
McLaren: Carlos Sainz 73% - 27% Lando Norris
Racing Point Force India: Sergio Perez 87% - 13% Lance Stroll
Sauber: Kimi Raikkonen 88% - 12% Antonio Giovinazzi
Toro Rosso: Daniil Kvyat 60% - 40% Alex Albon
Williams: George Russell 75% - 25% Robert Kubica

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:04 am 
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I'd love to see Leclerc take this one: I'm a big fan of the guy, I genuinely believe he's the next big thing, and Seb did nothing to inspire my confidence last year.

That said, Vettel does have this bizarre pattern of driving better in odd-numbered years, Leclerc is still barely more than a rookie, and Ferrari have openly admitted the drivers won't be given equal status. The smart money says Vettel, even if I don't see it being a walkover.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:18 am 
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I'd love to see Leclerc do well.

But my hunch this is too much too soon, and he may be a bit overrated.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 10:35 am 
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If he's smart he'll learn a lot this year. I do want him to give Vettel a race for his money, but I do not think this will happen in 2019.

Good luck to him though, the opportunity is there, he only has to grab it


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:59 pm 
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I think Vettel will win this one in 2019 due to experience and not being new to the team etc. If it turns out Leclerc is the real deal, I expect he'll be giving Vettel a tough time come the end of the season.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:21 pm 
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JN23 wrote:
I think Vettel will win this one in 2019 due to experience and not being new to the team etc. If it turns out Leclerc is the real deal, I expect he'll be giving Vettel a tough time come the end of the season.

This is my guess too. Although I'd say if Vettel is ahead in the standings by enough of a margin I don't think Leclerc will be allowed to give him too hard of a time past a certain point of the season, as Ferrari will want to secure the championship after letting it slip away last year.

I think 2020 could go Leclerc's way though if he is the real deal.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:19 pm 
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Vettel will outscore him. What I personally want to see from Leclerc is an improvement from Kimi’s performance against Seb. He needs to be closer than that imo, and by the end of this year, if the championship is already decided it would be nice to see if he could beat Seb in a straight fight.
2020 is the year he should have a fair go.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:53 pm 
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My expectation is that Vettel will be ahead for a significant part of the season due to a combination of factors but by the end of the season, Leclerc's going to be starting to get really close in terms of performance and setting things up to be almost uncomfortably competitive between the two in 2020.

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:07 pm 
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This battle has been made all the more important after Ferrari's testing performances. In The first 5 races or so, Leclerc needs to be there or there abouts while he's still getting up to speed within Ferrari, similar to Hamilton with that run of podium's in early 2007.

If he can stay within 20 or so points of Seb, he has a platform to launch a title challenge, especially if there is a Vettel DNF at some point. If he's 40 or so points behind, then he may find himself having to help consolidate Ferrari's push for a first drivers championship since 2007.

But Vettel is not stupid. He'll know that this Ferrari are almost certainly the quickest, and that his main rival for the title could well be his teammate. I'm sure he'll up his game. I can't wait for this one.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:31 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
I'd love to see Leclerc take this one: I'm a big fan of the guy, I genuinely believe he's the next big thing, and Seb did nothing to inspire my confidence last year.

That said, Vettel does have this bizarre pattern of driving better in odd-numbered years, Leclerc is still barely more than a rookie, and Ferrari have openly admitted the drivers won't be given equal status. The smart money says Vettel, even if I don't see it being a walkover.

Yeah, have to agree. Vettel will be extremely motivated. People have begun to question him in ways that are almost disrespectful when you consider his pedigree and track record. he will want to prove a point this year and it's looking like he'll have the car to do it with. 2020 is a different story but the smart money is definitely with Sebastian this year.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:28 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
If he's smart he'll learn a lot this year. I do want him to give Vettel a race for his money, but I do not think this will happen in 2019.

Good luck to him though, the opportunity is there, he only has to grab it

If he's smart sounds a bit like it will be better for him if he doesn't rock the boat even if he has a chance of the title himself?

Personally I think at this stage in his career Vettel will have to much for him provided Vettel doesn't repeat the mistakes of last season.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:03 am 
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Although testing is not much to go on, LeClerc’s best sectors together are 0.1 up on Vettel.

I see a lot of comments about LeClerc improving over the year.
If he is the real deal, he will be on it in Melbourne. These drivers are some of the best in the world. They don’t need half a season, they need 1 practice session to adapt.

I voted for LeClerc.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:16 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
If he's smart he'll learn a lot this year. I do want him to give Vettel a race for his money, but I do not think this will happen in 2019.

Good luck to him though, the opportunity is there, he only has to grab it

If he's smart sounds a bit like it will be better for him if he doesn't rock the boat even if he has a chance of the title himself?

Personally I think at this stage in his career Vettel will have to much for him provided Vettel doesn't repeat the mistakes of last season.

No, that's not what I said. Massa improved a lot when he spent 2006 along Schumacher. You think a young guy can't learn anything from a seasoned driver, one of the best out there? That's all, that he can improve, certainly his wet driving or other areas that he feels that he has to.

And last time someone rocked the boat turned out a bit sour, didn't it? I'm not saying that he shouldn't go for it if he is good enough to lead the team, just that we have seen how it can disrupt the team. Ferrari won't have that though. And I doubt Vettel would be the same primadonna that Alonso was back in 2007.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:25 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
If he's smart he'll learn a lot this year. I do want him to give Vettel a race for his money, but I do not think this will happen in 2019.

Good luck to him though, the opportunity is there, he only has to grab it

If he's smart sounds a bit like it will be better for him if he doesn't rock the boat even if he has a chance of the title himself?

Personally I think at this stage in his career Vettel will have to much for him provided Vettel doesn't repeat the mistakes of last season.

No, that's not what I said. Massa improved a lot when he spent 2006 along Schumacher. You think a young guy can't learn anything from a seasoned driver, one of the best out there? That's all, that he can improve, certainly his wet driving or other areas that he feels that he has to.

And last time someone rocked the boat turned out a bit sour, didn't it? I'm not saying that he shouldn't go for it if he is good enough to lead the team, just that we have seen how it can disrupt the team. Ferrari won't have that though. And I doubt Vettel would be the same primadonna that Alonso was back in 2007.

Comparisons here are that Massa was half a second slower than Schumacher whilst Hamilton was on the pace with Alonso, Massa was never a threat, if Leclerc is quick enough but not allowed to race against Vettel both Ferrari and Vettel will get panned.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:39 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
If he's smart he'll learn a lot this year. I do want him to give Vettel a race for his money, but I do not think this will happen in 2019.

Good luck to him though, the opportunity is there, he only has to grab it

If he's smart sounds a bit like it will be better for him if he doesn't rock the boat even if he has a chance of the title himself?

Personally I think at this stage in his career Vettel will have to much for him provided Vettel doesn't repeat the mistakes of last season.

No, that's not what I said. Massa improved a lot when he spent 2006 along Schumacher. You think a young guy can't learn anything from a seasoned driver, one of the best out there? That's all, that he can improve, certainly his wet driving or other areas that he feels that he has to.

And last time someone rocked the boat turned out a bit sour, didn't it? I'm not saying that he shouldn't go for it if he is good enough to lead the team, just that we have seen how it can disrupt the team. Ferrari won't have that though. And I doubt Vettel would be the same primadonna that Alonso was back in 2007.

Comparisons here are that Massa was half a second slower than Schumacher whilst Hamilton was on the pace with Alonso, Massa was never a threat, if Leclerc is quick enough but not allowed to race against Vettel both Ferrari and Vettel will get panned.

I did not compare the two situations, so I have no idea what you are on about


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:03 pm 
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Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
If he's smart he'll learn a lot this year. I do want him to give Vettel a race for his money, but I do not think this will happen in 2019.

Good luck to him though, the opportunity is there, he only has to grab it

If he's smart sounds a bit like it will be better for him if he doesn't rock the boat even if he has a chance of the title himself?

Personally I think at this stage in his career Vettel will have to much for him provided Vettel doesn't repeat the mistakes of last season.

No, that's not what I said. Massa improved a lot when he spent 2006 along Schumacher. You think a young guy can't learn anything from a seasoned driver, one of the best out there? That's all, that he can improve, certainly his wet driving or other areas that he feels that he has to.

And last time someone rocked the boat turned out a bit sour, didn't it? I'm not saying that he shouldn't go for it if he is good enough to lead the team, just that we have seen how it can disrupt the team. Ferrari won't have that though. And I doubt Vettel would be the same primadonna that Alonso was back in 2007.

Comparisons here are that Massa was half a second slower than Schumacher whilst Hamilton was on the pace with Alonso, Massa was never a threat, if Leclerc is quick enough but not allowed to race against Vettel both Ferrari and Vettel will get panned.

I did not compare the two situations, so I have no idea what you are on about

You brought Massa's situation into it and I showed how Massa's situation was different.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 9:17 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
If he's smart sounds a bit like it will be better for him if he doesn't rock the boat even if he has a chance of the title himself?

Personally I think at this stage in his career Vettel will have to much for him provided Vettel doesn't repeat the mistakes of last season.

No, that's not what I said. Massa improved a lot when he spent 2006 along Schumacher. You think a young guy can't learn anything from a seasoned driver, one of the best out there? That's all, that he can improve, certainly his wet driving or other areas that he feels that he has to.

And last time someone rocked the boat turned out a bit sour, didn't it? I'm not saying that he shouldn't go for it if he is good enough to lead the team, just that we have seen how it can disrupt the team. Ferrari won't have that though. And I doubt Vettel would be the same primadonna that Alonso was back in 2007.

Comparisons here are that Massa was half a second slower than Schumacher whilst Hamilton was on the pace with Alonso, Massa was never a threat, if Leclerc is quick enough but not allowed to race against Vettel both Ferrari and Vettel will get panned.

I did not compare the two situations, so I have no idea what you are on about

You brought Massa's situation into it and I showed how Massa's situation was different.

No, I mentioned a situation where a young guy learned from the seasoned one, like Cevert and Stewart if you want.

On a different note, the situation when a team let a young cub rock the boat was a disaster last time we witnessed it. Read my post again, everything is explained there, even the part that the young cub should go for it if he is fast/good enough. I did not compare the two situations, so you can stop drawing your own conclusions.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 12:59 pm 
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Randine wrote:
Although testing is not much to go on, LeClerc’s best sectors together are 0.1 up on Vettel.

I see a lot of comments about LeClerc improving over the year.
If he is the real deal, he will be on it in Melbourne. These drivers are some of the best in the world. They don’t need half a season, they need 1 practice session to adapt.

I voted for LeClerc.


Probably true actually. It took him far less than half a season to get to grips with the Sauber and that was in a rookie season.


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:54 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
Randine wrote:
Although testing is not much to go on, LeClerc’s best sectors together are 0.1 up on Vettel.

I see a lot of comments about LeClerc improving over the year.
If he is the real deal, he will be on it in Melbourne. These drivers are some of the best in the world. They don’t need half a season, they need 1 practice session to adapt.

I voted for LeClerc.


Probably true actually. It took him far less than half a season to get to grips with the Sauber and that was in a rookie season.

It took him 3 races.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:45 am 
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The full set of results are:

Ferrari: Sebastian Vettel 78% - 22% Charles Leclerc
Mercedes: Lewis Hamilton 96% - 4% Valtteri Bottas
Red Bull: Max Verstappen 94% - 6% Pierre Gasly
Renault: Daniel Ricciardo 87% - 13% Nico Hulkenberg
Haas: Romain Grosjean 83% - 17% Kevin Magnussen
McLaren: Carlos Sainz 73% - 27% Lando Norris
Racing Point Force India: Sergio Perez 87% - 13% Lance Stroll
Sauber: Kimi Raikkonen 88% - 12% Antonio Giovinazzi
Toro Rosso: Daniil Kvyat 60% - 40% Alex Albon
Williams: George Russell 75% - 25% Robert Kubica

So the only one that we seem to think will be relatively close is Kvyat/Albon, with all nine other teams having one driver we perceive to be the clear favourite.

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2018: 5th | 2017: 6th | 2016: 8th | 2015: 2nd | 2014: 15th | 2013: 17th | 2012: 11th


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 06, 2019 3:26 am 
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So the only one that I went against the grain with is was with picking Albon, it did end up as by far the closest match up though.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


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