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 Post subject: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 9:07 am 
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Well im excited even though MM has layed down an ominous early marker. Cant look any further then him again but hopefully somone will push him. one thing you can always guarantee is that there will be some cracking races.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 1:01 pm 
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He was slip streaming behind Vinales who set the second fastest time, more interesting perhaps is the straight line speed of the Honda this year, it is now the fastest bike taking over the mantle of Ducati these past few years, in contrast the Yamaha is the slowest bike.

So the fastest rider in the world is now given the fastest bike in a straight line, ominous.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 3:25 pm 
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Liking the new qually format for Moto2/3. Not least because practice sessions mean a lot more now for all classes.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:24 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
He was slip streaming behind Vinales who set the second fastest time, more interesting perhaps is the straight line speed of the Honda this year, it is now the fastest bike taking over the mantle of Ducati these past few years, in contrast the Yamaha is the slowest bike.

So the fastest rider in the world is now given the fastest bike in a straight line, ominous.

Yeah Qatar is a bit of an odd circuit and an outlier. It was impressive to see Vinales lay down that lap but I think Marc will probably dominate this season.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:36 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
He was slip streaming behind Vinales who set the second fastest time, more interesting perhaps is the straight line speed of the Honda this year, it is now the fastest bike taking over the mantle of Ducati these past few years, in contrast the Yamaha is the slowest bike.

So the fastest rider in the world is now given the fastest bike in a straight line, ominous.

Yeah Qatar is a bit of an odd circuit and an outlier. It was impressive to see Vinales lay down that lap but I think Marc will probably dominate this season.

Seeing Vinales quick in testing and getting pole first time out reminds me of 2017 when he was looking favourite for the title until Rossi decided he didn't like the bike but I digress.

It's quite confusing with the Honda being the quickest on the straight that Marquez felt he needed a tow but Vinales with Yamaha being the slowest bike on the straight didn't need a tow.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 7:28 am 
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Pretty impressed with Quartararo. Gutted about the start but he's definitely got some promise.


Last edited by sandman1347 on Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2019 8:49 pm 
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It's interesting to see the lack of talent in Moto2 and Moto3 at the moment. Moto2 in particular seems to be made up primarily of guys who weren't good enough to win championships these last few years. The guys out front were the likes of Baldassari, Alex Marquez, Vieje, Luthi, Gardner, etc. The most impressive rider on the day was undoubtedly Luthi; a 32 year old rider with more than a decade of experience in the intermediate class who flamed out in his one year in MotoGP. The rich vein of talent that started with Marc Marquez and contained the likes of Vinales, Rins, Zarco and Morbideli has now truly dried up it seems. Jorge Martin is a rookie to keep an eye on in Moto2 but he had a pretty awful first race.

Moto3 is not much better. Aaron Canet will have his work cut out for him as it seems Honda have surpassed KTM this year in terms of power. He did appear to be the best rider overall but he's going to be up against the odds if things continue to look like this on the straights. Canet was consistently beaten out though over the last 2-3 years by better riders like Mir and Martin and he appears to be the best of the current crop. Outside of him you have a lot of unknown riders and other guys who have been in the series for ages. Perhaps this year will be Fenati's chance to finally win a title. He did seem to be the overall fastest package out there and if not for his foolish mistake in taking a penalty when he didn't have to, I think he would likely have won the race. Congrats to Toba though. That was a brilliant win and I saw enough from him to make me thing it won't be a one-off. He was not only fast but, crucially, he showed aggression. That has long been the weakness of Japanese riders but he seems to have enough fight in him to remain a contender.

Despite the weakness of the feeder classes, MotoGP seems to be stronger than ever (perhaps the two circumstances go hand-in-hand). What a battle at the front we saw! It seems that all 4 factory teams have the potential to be competitive with perhaps Yamaha bringing up the rear. Vinales must figure out how to be quick when the bike is on a full load of fuel. He will never become champion if he can't figure that out despite the fact that he's as fast as anyone on light fuel.

Dovi has really earned my respect. The guy is smart. Even the commentators didn't pick up that he intentionally let Marques through on the penultimate lap so that he could take the lead into turn 1 on the final lap and pull a repeat of last year's race. He's cagey and he's sharp but I think Marc will win another championship this season. That Honda is a beast and Qatar is really not a Honda track at all. I do think Marc might indeed have the best bike this year and I think he will dominate the championship yet again.

I am very impressed with Suzuki and Rins as well. They are fast! I believe that they have the best chassis this year and with a little more power they would have the best bike. Rins is looking strong but he'll have to look over his shoulder at his teammate. Mir seems to have come to terms with the bike quite quickly and he's looking like a shoe-in for rookie of the year so far. That said, I wouldn't count out Bagnaia. He'll get the hang of things soon enough and that Ducati is still very strong. This is going to be a great year!


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:10 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Pretty impressed with Quartararo. Gutted about the start but he's definitely got some promise.

Yeah he seems to perform better on the bigger bikes, he was going nowhere in Moto3 then started to look really good in his rookie season in Moto2.

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2019: Currently 15th

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 1:18 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
It's interesting to see the lack of talent in Moto2 and Moto3 at the moment. Moto2 in particular seems to be made up primarily of guys who weren't good enough to win championships these last few years. The guys out front were the likes of Baldassari, Alex Marquez, Vieje, Luthi, Gardner, etc. The most impressive rider on the day was undoubtedly Luthi; a 32 year old rider with more than a decade of experience in the intermediate class who flamed out in his one year in MotoGP. The rich vein of talent that started with Marc Marquez and contained the likes of Vinales, Rins, Zarco and Morbideli has now truly dried up it seems. Jorge Martin is a rookie to keep an eye on in Moto2 but he had a pretty awful first race.

Moto3 is not much better. Aaron Canet will have his work cut out for him as it seems Honda have surpassed KTM this year in terms of power. He did appear to be the best rider overall but he's going to be up against the odds if things continue to look like this on the straights. Canet was consistently beaten out though over the last 2-3 years by better riders like Mir and Martin and he appears to be the best of the current crop. Outside of him you have a lot of unknown riders and other guys who have been in the series for ages. Perhaps this year will be Fenati's chance to finally win a title. He did seem to be the overall fastest package out there and if not for his foolish mistake in taking a penalty when he didn't have to, I think he would likely have won the race. Congrats to Toba though. That was a brilliant win and I saw enough from him to make me thing it won't be a one-off. He was not only fast but, crucially, he showed aggression. That has long been the weakness of Japanese riders but he seems to have enough fight in him to remain a contender.

Despite the weakness of the feeder classes, MotoGP seems to be stronger than ever (perhaps the two circumstances go hand-in-hand). What a battle at the front we saw! It seems that all 4 factory teams have the potential to be competitive with perhaps Yamaha bringing up the rear. Vinales must figure out how to be quick when the bike is on a full load of fuel. He will never become champion if he can't figure that out despite the fact that he's as fast as anyone on light fuel.

Dovi has really earned my respect. The guy is smart. Even the commentators didn't pick up that he intentionally let Marques through on the penultimate lap so that he could take the lead into turn 1 on the final lap and pull a repeat of last year's race. He's cagey and he's sharp but I think Marc will win another championship this season. That Honda is a beast and Qatar is really not a Honda track at all. I do think Marc might indeed have the best bike this year and I think he will dominate the championship yet again.

I am very impressed with Suzuki and Rins as well. They are fast! I believe that they have the best chassis this year and with a little more power they would have the best bike. Rins is looking strong but he'll have to look over his shoulder at his teammate. Mir seems to have come to terms with the bike quite quickly and he's looking like a shoe-in for rookie of the year so far. That said, I wouldn't count out Bagnaia. He'll get the hang of things soon enough and that Ducati is still very strong. This is going to be a great year!

Yes the success of MotoGP does go hand in hand in what you perceive to a weakness of talent in Moto2 and Moto3, in recent years talented riders have been fast tracked into MotoGP.

I don't understand why you consider the Honda to be a beast when I look at how easily Dovi was able to pass Marquez on the long straight, it seems a bit like status quo to me with Ducati still being the best overall bike.

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2014: Champion
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2019: Currently 15th

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:13 pm 
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The only way Dovi beats MM is with the best bike and that's what he has but I just think his too inconsistent. MM is a beast and a joy to watch, he just needs to consistently pick up the points.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2019 2:59 pm 
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Look, I think all of the bikes are strong this year except the KTM. I don't think anyone can complain about their bike. Even the Yamaha didn't really seem to be weak, it was more that Vinales was really poor on a heavy tank and Rossi messed up in qualifying.

Could the Ducati be the best all around bike? Yes it very much could. Not only Dovi and Petrucci but Jack Miller also looked very strong. That said Crutchlow was right up there despite his injury and Nakagami looked pretty strong too. The Honda was the fastest bike in a straight line without question. Qatar is not a Honda track and it's not a Marquez track. I have a feeling you will see Marc stretch his legs once we get a few races into the season.

This is the strongest field of riders I've ever seen in MotoGP. There are riders who are not even going to be in the top 10 who would have been Rossi's main rival 15 years ago!


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:09 pm 
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Interesting first race. I think the Suzuki’s are seriously going to trouble the big guns this year. In fast corners their bike is phenomenal. Rins is going to be a spoiler for sure, he looks fearless and extremely quick. For my money, the Honda is the best bike and Márquez is still the standard. Qatar is a unique circuit and for Honda to be so competitive there is ominous.

Quartararo looks to be quick too—can’t wait to see what he can do. Looks like Zarco has a long, hard year in front of him. Argentina should really give us a good idea on things, although Márquez was ina league if his own there last year. Hopefully everyone else will be on the pace with him there.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed Mar 13, 2019 5:19 pm 
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If Qatar is any indication, it's going to be quite the exciting season, with four teams battling hard at the front. However, I think the result will be similar to last year, with MM pulling away from Dovi at the end.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:51 pm 
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kowen1208 wrote:
If Qatar is any indication, it's going to be quite the exciting season, with four teams battling hard at the front. However, I think the result will be similar to last year, with MM pulling away from Dovi at the end.

Indeed and the finish was a carbon copy of last season, what did for Dovi last year was crashing out 3 times in the early races which made things too easy for Marquez.

In part I think things were not helped by his teammate Lorenzo, riders don't really have teammates as such but Lorenzo in particular can't be defined as an affable teammate, without the Lorenzo distraction I expect Dovi to have a stronger season.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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2019: Currently 15th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:41 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:
If Qatar is any indication, it's going to be quite the exciting season, with four teams battling hard at the front. However, I think the result will be similar to last year, with MM pulling away from Dovi at the end.

Indeed and the finish was a carbon copy of last season, what did for Dovi last year was crashing out 3 times in the early races which made things too easy for Marquez.

In part I think things were not helped by his teammate Lorenzo, riders don't really have teammates as such but Lorenzo in particular can't be defined as an affable teammate, without the Lorenzo distraction I expect Dovi to have a stronger season.

This - if Lorenzo gets up to speed he could well become a distraction for Marquez.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 1:55 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
kowen1208 wrote:
If Qatar is any indication, it's going to be quite the exciting season, with four teams battling hard at the front. However, I think the result will be similar to last year, with MM pulling away from Dovi at the end.

Indeed and the finish was a carbon copy of last season, what did for Dovi last year was crashing out 3 times in the early races which made things too easy for Marquez.

In part I think things were not helped by his teammate Lorenzo, riders don't really have teammates as such but Lorenzo in particular can't be defined as an affable teammate, without the Lorenzo distraction I expect Dovi to have a stronger season.

This - if Lorenzo gets up to speed he could well become a distraction for Marquez.

Only if he is quick enough, that's a big question mark?

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2017: 9th Place
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2019: Currently 15th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Fri Mar 15, 2019 6:51 pm 
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https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/91555 ... togp-debut

Ugh. The wings have become so important that if one is slightly damaged as was the case here with Bagnaia, the balance is so upset the rider has to DNF. Quicker they get rid of the things the better. And I mean entirely. I will shake my fist at God if my favorite sport turns into a mini-F1 with downforce problems that complicated wing shapes present.

Regarding Lorenzo, I thought he did a fair job to finish where he did considering the injuries he sustained after FP2. Prior to that, he was looking better. If the guy can just stay healthy, I think he will show better on the Honda, faster, than he did on the Ducati. That being said, 13th wasn't bad with the fractured bone in the wrist and the rib fracture, which was acute, in the race.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 7:39 pm 
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https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/91603 ... ti-hearing

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:53 pm 
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Cold Gin wrote:
https://www.crash.net/motogp/news/916034/1/motogp-court-appeal-deciding-outcome-after-ducati-hearing

If it's not legal then that should have been declared over the weekend, it's not a good look to be disqualifying riders so long after the race.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:33 pm 
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Well, Argentina was a strong cup of coffee compared to the delightful tipple we experienced in Qatar. Marquez was simply on another planet compared to the rest of the field. Qualifying strongly hinted at that, but man did he cement the notion in the race. Simply a demolition event. That being said, the rest of the racing was really, really fun to watch. Especially Jack Miller---man does he really like to mix it up. Gutted concerning Crutchlow, it was a minscule movement, but a movement nonetheless. He had pace to be on the podium. It's really hard watching Zarco, I'm betting he wishes he would have taken that Repsol offer. On to COTA---another place where Marquez reigns supreme. No reason to think he won't demolish the field there too, unfortunately.

I think it is clear, right now, than Honda has the best bike. Ducati's bike is still extremely strong on the brakes and and accelerating, but their achilles heel is still in turning, and it does not turn anywhere near as well as the Honda, the Yamaha, or the Suzuki. Hopefully they can make that up, but I'm not sure they do that in the middle of the season. As of now, the Honda of Marquez has a choke hold on the championship, should he avoid injury and petulant mistakes. Really happy for Rossi. That was a classic pass on Dovi, and it was absolutely inch-perfect. I love seeing him compete at his age.

I really, really enjoyed the Moto 2 race. Really becoming a Remy Gardner fan, loved how he fought back every time someone passed him, right away. Looking forward to COTA, I've been there every year it has been held. It helps living 200 miles down the road. :]

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:24 pm 
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Cold Gin wrote:
Well, Argentina was a strong cup of coffee compared to the delightful tipple we experienced in Qatar. Marquez was simply on another planet compared to the rest of the field. Qualifying strongly hinted at that, but man did he cement the notion in the race. Simply a demolition event. That being said, the rest of the racing was really, really fun to watch. Especially Jack Miller---man does he really like to mix it up. Gutted concerning Crutchlow, it was a minscule movement, but a movement nonetheless. He had pace to be on the podium. It's really hard watching Zarco, I'm betting he wishes he would have taken that Repsol offer. On to COTA---another place where Marquez reigns supreme. No reason to think he won't demolish the field there too, unfortunately.

I think it is clear, right now, than Honda has the best bike. Ducati's bike is still extremely strong on the brakes and and accelerating, but their achilles heel is still in turning, and it does not turn anywhere near as well as the Honda, the Yamaha, or the Suzuki. Hopefully they can make that up, but I'm not sure they do that in the middle of the season. As of now, the Honda of Marquez has a choke hold on the championship, should he avoid injury and petulant mistakes. Really happy for Rossi. That was a classic pass on Dovi, and it was absolutely inch-perfect. I love seeing him compete at his age.

I really, really enjoyed the Moto 2 race. Really becoming a Remy Gardner fan, loved how he fought back every time someone passed him, right away. Looking forward to COTA, I've been there every year it has been held. It helps living 200 miles down the road. :]

I actually think the bikes are really close and it's Marquez making the difference, with regards to Crutchlow should have also been on the podium on the Honda let's not forget he was able to match Dovi when they were teammates and Dovi was on the podium on the Ducati.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:04 am 
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https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/opin ... ppable?amp

Good article. I’m hoping for rain in Austin. It’s a possibility. If not, penciling in another victory for #93 is an extremely safe bet.

I think Rins, if he can qualify we’ll, can give Márquez a good tussle. Hopefully Lotenzo’s injuries will have healed more as well. He’s got to start competing.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:41 pm 
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Moto3 is a joke. been saying for years that they need to make the bikes more powerful. It's too much of a lottery with slipstreaming being 75% of the battle.

I'm happy for Baldessari. It's looking like this will be his year in Moto2 but the junior categories are in a dreadfully weak state. The guys at the front in both Moto2 and Moto3 have been beaten up for years by the likes of Morbideli, Bagnaia, Mir, etc.

MotoGP is a battle for 2nd for the forseable future. Honda is most definitely coming into another phase of real strength and they have the best rider by a mile. Marquez was able to win titles even when the bike was relatively weak and I think that what we saw in Argentina will likely become a familiar picture for the next couple of years.

It was nice to see Rossi perform to such a high standard though but the factory Yamaha team is a disaster. I think Maverick needs to go. He just isn't performing. Lorenzo is another guy that needs to go. I think Honda should give Crutchlow a shot on the factory bike to be honest. Jorge is a spent force; a Yamaha specialist who has really damaged his legacy since leaving that team. I'd like to see some new blood in the top teams. There are riders who are way too comfortable in MotoGP despite the fact that Marquez has been running circles around them for years.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:58 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Moto3 is a joke. been saying for years that they need to make the bikes more powerful. It's too much of a lottery with slipstreaming being 75% of the battle.

I'm happy for Baldessari. It's looking like this will be his year in Moto2 but the junior categories are in a dreadfully weak state. The guys at the front in both Moto2 and Moto3 have been beaten up for years by the likes of Morbideli, Bagnaia, Mir, etc.

MotoGP is a battle for 2nd for the forseable future. Honda is most definitely coming into another phase of real strength and they have the best rider by a mile. Marquez was able to win titles even when the bike was relatively weak and I think that what we saw in Argentina will likely become a familiar picture for the next couple of years.

It was nice to see Rossi perform to such a high standard though but the factory Yamaha team is a disaster. I think Maverick needs to go. He just isn't performing. Lorenzo is another guy that needs to go. I think Honda should give Crutchlow a shot on the factory bike to be honest. Jorge is a spent force; a Yamaha specialist who has really damaged his legacy since leaving that team. I'd like to see some new blood in the top teams. There are riders who are way too comfortable in MotoGP despite the fact that Marquez has been running circles around them for years.

I agree with the lower classes, it's a case of the best riders having been fast forwarded to MotoGP, regarding Lorenzo I believe he's still injured?

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 5:08 pm 
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Cold Gin wrote:
Marquez was simply on another planet compared to the rest of the field.

I kept watching the gaps, and most of the race, the gap between 1st and 2nd was about the same as the gap between 2nd and 12th most of the race. Definitely a statement from Marquez.

pokerman wrote:
I actually think the bikes are really close and it's Marquez making the difference.

I agree. We can't really compare him to Lorenzo yet, but aside from the year he didn't win the championship, he's proven himself something extraordinary since he came into MotoGP. And I think the year he didn't win actually made him strong overall; his risks are more calculated with the big picture in mind.

Cold Gin wrote:
I’m hoping for rain in Austin. It’s a possibility. If not, penciling in another victory for #93 is an extremely safe bet.

Still undefeated on US soil, and he's had some pretty cracking wet races at other venues, too. There are a few riders who do really well in the wet, but where Marquez stands apart to me is his ability to read the changing conditions and react at the right time. In any case, rain would be really entertaining.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 9:48 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Moto3 is a joke. been saying for years that they need to make the bikes more powerful. It's too much of a lottery with slipstreaming being 75% of the battle.

I'm happy for Baldessari. It's looking like this will be his year in Moto2 but the junior categories are in a dreadfully weak state. The guys at the front in both Moto2 and Moto3 have been beaten up for years by the likes of Morbideli, Bagnaia, Mir, etc.

MotoGP is a battle for 2nd for the forseable future. Honda is most definitely coming into another phase of real strength and they have the best rider by a mile. Marquez was able to win titles even when the bike was relatively weak and I think that what we saw in Argentina will likely become a familiar picture for the next couple of years.

It was nice to see Rossi perform to such a high standard though but the factory Yamaha team is a disaster. I think Maverick needs to go. He just isn't performing. Lorenzo is another guy that needs to go. I think Honda should give Crutchlow a shot on the factory bike to be honest. Jorge is a spent force; a Yamaha specialist who has really damaged his legacy since leaving that team. I'd like to see some new blood in the top teams. There are riders who are way too comfortable in MotoGP despite the fact that Marquez has been running circles around them for years.

I agree with the lower classes, it's a case of the best riders having been fast forwarded to MotoGP, regarding Lorenzo I believe he's still injured?

So you give him a pass? For me he's kind of like Kimi. Too narrow of an operating window. He struggled for 2 years at Ducati and now he's struggling at Honda. Maybe it's all about the injury and I'm being too harsh but I really gave him the benefit of the doubt for the last 2 years and I think I've run out of patience with him.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:37 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Moto3 is a joke. been saying for years that they need to make the bikes more powerful. It's too much of a lottery with slipstreaming being 75% of the battle.

I'm happy for Baldessari. It's looking like this will be his year in Moto2 but the junior categories are in a dreadfully weak state. The guys at the front in both Moto2 and Moto3 have been beaten up for years by the likes of Morbideli, Bagnaia, Mir, etc.

MotoGP is a battle for 2nd for the forseable future. Honda is most definitely coming into another phase of real strength and they have the best rider by a mile. Marquez was able to win titles even when the bike was relatively weak and I think that what we saw in Argentina will likely become a familiar picture for the next couple of years.

It was nice to see Rossi perform to such a high standard though but the factory Yamaha team is a disaster. I think Maverick needs to go. He just isn't performing. Lorenzo is another guy that needs to go. I think Honda should give Crutchlow a shot on the factory bike to be honest. Jorge is a spent force; a Yamaha specialist who has really damaged his legacy since leaving that team. I'd like to see some new blood in the top teams. There are riders who are way too comfortable in MotoGP despite the fact that Marquez has been running circles around them for years.

I agree with the lower classes, it's a case of the best riders having been fast forwarded to MotoGP, regarding Lorenzo I believe he's still injured?

So you give him a pass? For me he's kind of like Kimi. Too narrow of an operating window. He struggled for 2 years at Ducati and now he's struggling at Honda. Maybe it's all about the injury and I'm being too harsh but I really gave him the benefit of the doubt for the last 2 years and I think I've run out of patience with him.

Well he started to win races at Ducati but then got injured again, I agree he's not going to win another title but on his day he can still win races he still has that ability.

Were we stand now is that he's not fully fit so let him get back to his best so when Marquez keeps beating him that's just another string to Marquez's bow.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:18 pm 
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I think Lorenzo should be given a bit of a pass, because the pre-season injury of a fractured scaphoid that required surgery/hardware to fix, is pretty serious. Especially when you consider the forces put on that area when riding/racing. Further, he had a bad off in Qatar and fractured one of his ribs, which is another very painful injury. Those two together, him taking pain injections, it's hard to believe he was riding at all. He said Jerez is the race he is targeting to being at full fitness.

Also, Because of the wrist injury he didn't get to test in Malaysia, which cost him feeling and getting miles on the Honda. Given all this, it was a tough start to his season, and I don't think anyone was of the mind that he would be challenging for podiums.

Now, all that being said, he needs to be challenging the top 7, in my mind, at COTA. His rib should be better and the wrist should be coming along too. If he finishes 12,13th and mucks up the start like he did in Argentina, he's going to start hearing it from HRC and everyone else. The window for him to be given any pass is rapidly closing. Lorenzo needs a good result in Austin. Anything out of the top ten, in my eyes, will be frowned upon. I think he will rise to the challenge, but he needs to work like hell on the bike and not crash. If he crashes again and continues to be hurt, he may not finish the season. Pressure is on him.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2019 7:50 pm 
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Only an idiot would write Lorenzo off after seeing what he did last year. I'm not saying he will start beating Marquez, nobody could, but the gap now is not representative.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:02 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
Only an idiot would write Lorenzo off after seeing what he did last year. I'm not saying he will start beating Marquez, nobody could, but the gap now is not representative.

Agree - one doesn't suddenly become a bad rider. When the announcement was made re his move to the Honda works team I was really looking forward to the match-up between him and Marquez (who, let's face it, is the benchmark). We (and, I hope, Honda as well!) just need a little patience...

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 2:20 pm 
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tootsie323 wrote:
DOLOMITE wrote:
Only an idiot would write Lorenzo off after seeing what he did last year. I'm not saying he will start beating Marquez, nobody could, but the gap now is not representative.

Agree - one doesn't suddenly become a bad rider. When the announcement was made re his move to the Honda works team I was really looking forward to the match-up between him and Marquez (who, let's face it, is the benchmark). We (and, I hope, Honda as well!) just need a little patience...

I think the issue is that we've been saying "just have a little patience" for 2+ seasons now with Jorge. Jorge was easily one of the best riders in the world for a very long time. In fact, I would argue that from 2010-2013, he was the best rider in the world overall. The issue is that he has not proven to be very adaptable since leaving Yamaha. A few races into last season, it appeared that things finally came together for him at Ducati but even that was fleeting as he couldn't maintain it for the rest of the season (injuries factored in there as well).

So far things have not gone smoothly at Honda either and injuries are a piece of the puzzle here. The ability to stay healthy and avoid injury is actually a very important component of any rider's career. Injuries eventually wore out Pedrosa and they have cost many riders dearly over the years. I guess what I'm saying is that I see a clear decline in Jorge's career starting immediately after his last title in 2015. Inconsistency and overly sensitive performance, injuries and other elements have all factored in. Would I put it past him to win a couple of races this year? No, definitely not but I would put it past him to really give Marquez a hard time as a teammate and that's not something I would have said 3-4 years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:25 pm 
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Everyone wrote Lorenzo off in 2015 after Argentina. He then led every single lap of the next 4 races and went on to win the title. He'll win races this year but no one will beat Marquez to the title, you can pencil him for wins at Cota, Aragon and Sachsenring already


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:20 pm 
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I think Marc Marquez is, without question, the fastest rider of all time. He has talent that is off the chart. That said, there is a difference between his era of domination and Rossi's. Marc is more mistake-prone. It's as simple as that really. Every year, he has a couple of races where he just drops the bike somehow and loses (often from the lead). He keeps his rivals alive in the championship with those races and that's why he has not dominated the field as comprehensively as Rossi did more than a decade ago.

When Rossi was dominating MotoGP, he was extremely reliable. He almost never crashed out of a race in those days. That's why the end of 2006 was so shocking. You just never saw that from Valentino. With Marc, there is always this vulnerability. Everyone knows that there's a chance that he'll bin it out there and they're all hoping for it.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:19 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
I think Marc Marquez is, without question, the fastest rider of all time. He has talent that is off the chart. That said, there is a difference between his era of domination and Rossi's. Marc is more mistake-prone. It's as simple as that really. Every year, he has a couple of races where he just drops the bike somehow and loses (often from the lead). He keeps his rivals alive in the championship with those races and that's why he has not dominated the field as comprehensively as Rossi did more than a decade ago.

When Rossi was dominating MotoGP, he was extremely reliable. He almost never crashed out of a race in those days. That's why the end of 2006 was so shocking. You just never saw that from Valentino. With Marc, there is always this vulnerability. Everyone knows that there's a chance that he'll bin it out there and they're all hoping for it.

I can't help but feel this as a case of you are only as good as your last race, he's the fastest because basically he's able to ride more on the limit than other riders but I wouldn't say he crashes any more in the races than other riders, last time out he apparently got caught out by one of the bad bumps on the circuit that all the riders have been complaining about?

Comparing with Rossi he dominated from 2001-2005 and like you say gave the title away in 2006 when he crashed out in the last race giving the title to Nicky Hayden and there lies the level of opposition he was up against, he often played with the field making the racing seem interesting before scampering off in the final laps.

Let's not also forget that Rossi crashed and broke his leg in 2010 which put him out of the title race with his teammate Lorenzo, so that's 2 titles he potential lost through crashing.

It's Marquez's on the edge riding that makes him so exciting to watch and yes occasionally he might mess up but in terms of vulnerability you kind of make it seem like it's one in every 3 races he's going to mess up when we are actually talking about someone who has won 5 titles in the last 6 years, any lack of domination when comparing with Rossi as such is not because of crashing but because of not always having the best bike and having better opposition which includes Rossi himself.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:36 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I think Marc Marquez is, without question, the fastest rider of all time. He has talent that is off the chart. That said, there is a difference between his era of domination and Rossi's. Marc is more mistake-prone. It's as simple as that really. Every year, he has a couple of races where he just drops the bike somehow and loses (often from the lead). He keeps his rivals alive in the championship with those races and that's why he has not dominated the field as comprehensively as Rossi did more than a decade ago.

When Rossi was dominating MotoGP, he was extremely reliable. He almost never crashed out of a race in those days. That's why the end of 2006 was so shocking. You just never saw that from Valentino. With Marc, there is always this vulnerability. Everyone knows that there's a chance that he'll bin it out there and they're all hoping for it.

I can't help but feel this as a case of you are only as good as your last race, he's the fastest because basically he's able to ride more on the limit than other riders but I wouldn't say he crashes any more in the races than other riders, last time out he apparently got caught out by one of the bad bumps on the circuit that all the riders have been complaining about?

Comparing with Rossi he dominated from 2001-2005 and like you say gave the title away in 2006 when he crashed out in the last race giving the title to Nicky Hayden and there lies the level of opposition he was up against, he often played with the field making the racing seem interesting before scampering off in the final laps.

Let's not also forget that Rossi crashed and broke his leg in 2010 which put him out of the title race with his teammate Lorenzo, so that's 2 titles he potential lost through crashing.

It's Marquez's on the edge riding that makes him so exciting to watch and yes occasionally he might mess up but in terms of vulnerability you kind of make it seem like it's one in every 3 races he's going to mess up when we are actually talking about someone who has won 5 titles in the last 6 years, any lack of domination when comparing with Rossi as such is not because of crashing but because of not always having the best bike and having better opposition which includes Rossi himself.

I think you're overreacting here. Not sure how you got the idea that I meant one in three races when I actually said he has "a couple of races" every year where he crashes out due to his own mistake. Generally "a couple" means two, so that's very far from one in three races. More like one in nine races. Either way it's more than Rossi. In Rossi's last two seasons with Honda, he finished on the podium in 31 out of 32 races. That's a level of consistency that Marc has never reached.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Marc but he crashes more than Rossi did when Rossi was dominating the sport. His crash in Austin had nothing to do with not having the best bike either because this year, he has a bike that is extremely competitive. He is just more on the limit than any other rider. You see it in practice; where he crashes quite frequently. He consistently pushes the limit and that's why he is the fastest guy out there but it's also why he occasionally crashes. I also do agree that Marc is facing a tougher field of competition during his prime but I don't blame that for the crashes. The crashes are just an element of who he is. They are his Achilles heel. Without them, he literally would be unbeatable.

Having gotten one out of his system, we probably won't see him take another spill for quite some time. It's been a long time since 2015; a year where his mistakes really took him out of the running; and I think he has mostly learned to mitigate his own tendency to push a little too close to the edge. I still expect Marc to run away with the championship but it's interesting to note that Marc has never surpassed his number of podium finishes from his rookie year. He finished on the podium 16 times that year and has never been able to match that number since.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:19 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I think Marc Marquez is, without question, the fastest rider of all time. He has talent that is off the chart. That said, there is a difference between his era of domination and Rossi's. Marc is more mistake-prone. It's as simple as that really. Every year, he has a couple of races where he just drops the bike somehow and loses (often from the lead). He keeps his rivals alive in the championship with those races and that's why he has not dominated the field as comprehensively as Rossi did more than a decade ago.

When Rossi was dominating MotoGP, he was extremely reliable. He almost never crashed out of a race in those days. That's why the end of 2006 was so shocking. You just never saw that from Valentino. With Marc, there is always this vulnerability. Everyone knows that there's a chance that he'll bin it out there and they're all hoping for it.

I can't help but feel this as a case of you are only as good as your last race, he's the fastest because basically he's able to ride more on the limit than other riders but I wouldn't say he crashes any more in the races than other riders, last time out he apparently got caught out by one of the bad bumps on the circuit that all the riders have been complaining about?

Comparing with Rossi he dominated from 2001-2005 and like you say gave the title away in 2006 when he crashed out in the last race giving the title to Nicky Hayden and there lies the level of opposition he was up against, he often played with the field making the racing seem interesting before scampering off in the final laps.

Let's not also forget that Rossi crashed and broke his leg in 2010 which put him out of the title race with his teammate Lorenzo, so that's 2 titles he potential lost through crashing.

It's Marquez's on the edge riding that makes him so exciting to watch and yes occasionally he might mess up but in terms of vulnerability you kind of make it seem like it's one in every 3 races he's going to mess up when we are actually talking about someone who has won 5 titles in the last 6 years, any lack of domination when comparing with Rossi as such is not because of crashing but because of not always having the best bike and having better opposition which includes Rossi himself.

I think you're overreacting here. Not sure how you got the idea that I meant one in three races when I actually said he has "a couple of races" every year where he crashes out due to his own mistake. Generally "a couple" means two, so that's very far from one in three races. More like one in nine races. Either way it's more than Rossi. In Rossi's last two seasons with Honda, he finished on the podium in 31 out of 32 races. That's a level of consistency that Marc has never reached.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Marc but he crashes more than Rossi did when Rossi was dominating the sport. His crash in Austin had nothing to do with not having the best bike either because this year, he has a bike that is extremely competitive. He is just more on the limit than any other rider. You see it in practice; where he crashes quite frequently. He consistently pushes the limit and that's why he is the fastest guy out there but it's also why he occasionally crashes. I also do agree that Marc is facing a tougher field of competition during his prime but I don't blame that for the crashes. The crashes are just an element of who he is. They are his Achilles heel. Without them, he literally would be unbeatable.

Having gotten one out of his system, we probably won't see him take another spill for quite some time. It's been a long time since 2015; a year where his mistakes really took him out of the running; and I think he has mostly learned to mitigate his own tendency to push a little too close to the edge. I still expect Marc to run away with the championship but it's interesting to note that Marc has never surpassed his number of podium finishes from his rookie year. He finished on the podium 16 times that year and has never been able to match that number since.


Quite right. Marc has always been a crasher. He usually is in the top third of crashers each season, and was at No 1 both in 2017 (27)and 2018 (23). Like Marc Cal pushes the front end of the Honda to its limits; which is probably one of the reasons Cal has a full factory contract with Honda.

https://www.crash.net/motogp/feature/91 ... falls-list


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:43 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I think Marc Marquez is, without question, the fastest rider of all time. He has talent that is off the chart. That said, there is a difference between his era of domination and Rossi's. Marc is more mistake-prone. It's as simple as that really. Every year, he has a couple of races where he just drops the bike somehow and loses (often from the lead). He keeps his rivals alive in the championship with those races and that's why he has not dominated the field as comprehensively as Rossi did more than a decade ago.

When Rossi was dominating MotoGP, he was extremely reliable. He almost never crashed out of a race in those days. That's why the end of 2006 was so shocking. You just never saw that from Valentino. With Marc, there is always this vulnerability. Everyone knows that there's a chance that he'll bin it out there and they're all hoping for it.

I can't help but feel this as a case of you are only as good as your last race, he's the fastest because basically he's able to ride more on the limit than other riders but I wouldn't say he crashes any more in the races than other riders, last time out he apparently got caught out by one of the bad bumps on the circuit that all the riders have been complaining about?

Comparing with Rossi he dominated from 2001-2005 and like you say gave the title away in 2006 when he crashed out in the last race giving the title to Nicky Hayden and there lies the level of opposition he was up against, he often played with the field making the racing seem interesting before scampering off in the final laps.

Let's not also forget that Rossi crashed and broke his leg in 2010 which put him out of the title race with his teammate Lorenzo, so that's 2 titles he potential lost through crashing.

It's Marquez's on the edge riding that makes him so exciting to watch and yes occasionally he might mess up but in terms of vulnerability you kind of make it seem like it's one in every 3 races he's going to mess up when we are actually talking about someone who has won 5 titles in the last 6 years, any lack of domination when comparing with Rossi as such is not because of crashing but because of not always having the best bike and having better opposition which includes Rossi himself.

I think you're overreacting here. Not sure how you got the idea that I meant one in three races when I actually said he has "a couple of races" every year where he crashes out due to his own mistake. Generally "a couple" means two, so that's very far from one in three races. More like one in nine races. Either way it's more than Rossi. In Rossi's last two seasons with Honda, he finished on the podium in 31 out of 32 races. That's a level of consistency that Marc has never reached.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Marc but he crashes more than Rossi did when Rossi was dominating the sport. His crash in Austin had nothing to do with not having the best bike either because this year, he has a bike that is extremely competitive. He is just more on the limit than any other rider. You see it in practice; where he crashes quite frequently. He consistently pushes the limit and that's why he is the fastest guy out there but it's also why he occasionally crashes. I also do agree that Marc is facing a tougher field of competition during his prime but I don't blame that for the crashes. The crashes are just an element of who he is. They are his Achilles heel. Without them, he literally would be unbeatable.

Having gotten one out of his system, we probably won't see him take another spill for quite some time. It's been a long time since 2015; a year where his mistakes really took him out of the running; and I think he has mostly learned to mitigate his own tendency to push a little too close to the edge. I still expect Marc to run away with the championship but it's interesting to note that Marc has never surpassed his number of podium finishes from his rookie year. He finished on the podium 16 times that year and has never been able to match that number since.

Fair enough but I do think it's systematic of him pushing closer to the limits than other riders and I think he gains more than he loses?

2015 was more of case of him having an inferior bike to the Yamaha and not excepting that and looking to win races with a slower bike thinking that anything less was not enough, Rossi coming close to winning the title despite only winning 4 races taught him a valuable lesson.

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 3:44 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I think Marc Marquez is, without question, the fastest rider of all time. He has talent that is off the chart. That said, there is a difference between his era of domination and Rossi's. Marc is more mistake-prone. It's as simple as that really. Every year, he has a couple of races where he just drops the bike somehow and loses (often from the lead). He keeps his rivals alive in the championship with those races and that's why he has not dominated the field as comprehensively as Rossi did more than a decade ago.

When Rossi was dominating MotoGP, he was extremely reliable. He almost never crashed out of a race in those days. That's why the end of 2006 was so shocking. You just never saw that from Valentino. With Marc, there is always this vulnerability. Everyone knows that there's a chance that he'll bin it out there and they're all hoping for it.

I can't help but feel this as a case of you are only as good as your last race, he's the fastest because basically he's able to ride more on the limit than other riders but I wouldn't say he crashes any more in the races than other riders, last time out he apparently got caught out by one of the bad bumps on the circuit that all the riders have been complaining about?

Comparing with Rossi he dominated from 2001-2005 and like you say gave the title away in 2006 when he crashed out in the last race giving the title to Nicky Hayden and there lies the level of opposition he was up against, he often played with the field making the racing seem interesting before scampering off in the final laps.

Let's not also forget that Rossi crashed and broke his leg in 2010 which put him out of the title race with his teammate Lorenzo, so that's 2 titles he potential lost through crashing.

It's Marquez's on the edge riding that makes him so exciting to watch and yes occasionally he might mess up but in terms of vulnerability you kind of make it seem like it's one in every 3 races he's going to mess up when we are actually talking about someone who has won 5 titles in the last 6 years, any lack of domination when comparing with Rossi as such is not because of crashing but because of not always having the best bike and having better opposition which includes Rossi himself.

I think you're overreacting here. Not sure how you got the idea that I meant one in three races when I actually said he has "a couple of races" every year where he crashes out due to his own mistake. Generally "a couple" means two, so that's very far from one in three races. More like one in nine races. Either way it's more than Rossi. In Rossi's last two seasons with Honda, he finished on the podium in 31 out of 32 races. That's a level of consistency that Marc has never reached.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Marc but he crashes more than Rossi did when Rossi was dominating the sport. His crash in Austin had nothing to do with not having the best bike either because this year, he has a bike that is extremely competitive. He is just more on the limit than any other rider. You see it in practice; where he crashes quite frequently. He consistently pushes the limit and that's why he is the fastest guy out there but it's also why he occasionally crashes. I also do agree that Marc is facing a tougher field of competition during his prime but I don't blame that for the crashes. The crashes are just an element of who he is. They are his Achilles heel. Without them, he literally would be unbeatable.

Having gotten one out of his system, we probably won't see him take another spill for quite some time. It's been a long time since 2015; a year where his mistakes really took him out of the running; and I think he has mostly learned to mitigate his own tendency to push a little too close to the edge. I still expect Marc to run away with the championship but it's interesting to note that Marc has never surpassed his number of podium finishes from his rookie year. He finished on the podium 16 times that year and has never been able to match that number since.


Quite right. Marc has always been a crasher. He usually is in the top third of crashers each season, and was at No 1 both in 2017 (27)and 2018 (23). Like Marc Cal pushes the front end of the Honda to its limits; which is probably one of the reasons Cal has a full factory contract with Honda.

https://www.crash.net/motogp/feature/91 ... falls-list

Crashing in practice doesn't really matter unless you get hurt.

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2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
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2019: Currently 15th

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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:55 am 
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pokerman wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
I think Marc Marquez is, without question, the fastest rider of all time. He has talent that is off the chart. That said, there is a difference between his era of domination and Rossi's. Marc is more mistake-prone. It's as simple as that really. Every year, he has a couple of races where he just drops the bike somehow and loses (often from the lead). He keeps his rivals alive in the championship with those races and that's why he has not dominated the field as comprehensively as Rossi did more than a decade ago.

When Rossi was dominating MotoGP, he was extremely reliable. He almost never crashed out of a race in those days. That's why the end of 2006 was so shocking. You just never saw that from Valentino. With Marc, there is always this vulnerability. Everyone knows that there's a chance that he'll bin it out there and they're all hoping for it.

I can't help but feel this as a case of you are only as good as your last race, he's the fastest because basically he's able to ride more on the limit than other riders but I wouldn't say he crashes any more in the races than other riders, last time out he apparently got caught out by one of the bad bumps on the circuit that all the riders have been complaining about?

Comparing with Rossi he dominated from 2001-2005 and like you say gave the title away in 2006 when he crashed out in the last race giving the title to Nicky Hayden and there lies the level of opposition he was up against, he often played with the field making the racing seem interesting before scampering off in the final laps.

Let's not also forget that Rossi crashed and broke his leg in 2010 which put him out of the title race with his teammate Lorenzo, so that's 2 titles he potential lost through crashing.

It's Marquez's on the edge riding that makes him so exciting to watch and yes occasionally he might mess up but in terms of vulnerability you kind of make it seem like it's one in every 3 races he's going to mess up when we are actually talking about someone who has won 5 titles in the last 6 years, any lack of domination when comparing with Rossi as such is not because of crashing but because of not always having the best bike and having better opposition which includes Rossi himself.

I think you're overreacting here. Not sure how you got the idea that I meant one in three races when I actually said he has "a couple of races" every year where he crashes out due to his own mistake. Generally "a couple" means two, so that's very far from one in three races. More like one in nine races. Either way it's more than Rossi. In Rossi's last two seasons with Honda, he finished on the podium in 31 out of 32 races. That's a level of consistency that Marc has never reached.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Marc but he crashes more than Rossi did when Rossi was dominating the sport. His crash in Austin had nothing to do with not having the best bike either because this year, he has a bike that is extremely competitive. He is just more on the limit than any other rider. You see it in practice; where he crashes quite frequently. He consistently pushes the limit and that's why he is the fastest guy out there but it's also why he occasionally crashes. I also do agree that Marc is facing a tougher field of competition during his prime but I don't blame that for the crashes. The crashes are just an element of who he is. They are his Achilles heel. Without them, he literally would be unbeatable.

Having gotten one out of his system, we probably won't see him take another spill for quite some time. It's been a long time since 2015; a year where his mistakes really took him out of the running; and I think he has mostly learned to mitigate his own tendency to push a little too close to the edge. I still expect Marc to run away with the championship but it's interesting to note that Marc has never surpassed his number of podium finishes from his rookie year. He finished on the podium 16 times that year and has never been able to match that number since.


Quite right. Marc has always been a crasher. He usually is in the top third of crashers each season, and was at No 1 both in 2017 (27)and 2018 (23). Like Marc Cal pushes the front end of the Honda to its limits; which is probably one of the reasons Cal has a full factory contract with Honda.

https://www.crash.net/motogp/feature/91 ... falls-list

Crashing in practice doesn't really matter unless you get hurt.



Really? Well thank you for that nugget. But obviously in respect of Marquez ; which is what we are discussing, he has hurt himself numerous times with so many falls. Probably why theirs been a plethora of articles and quotes from Marquez himself over the winter on how his injuries have affected his preparations for this season; testing and his approach to a race weekend. Even some suggestions that it may affect the length of his career.


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 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 12:21 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I can't help but feel this as a case of you are only as good as your last race, he's the fastest because basically he's able to ride more on the limit than other riders but I wouldn't say he crashes any more in the races than other riders, last time out he apparently got caught out by one of the bad bumps on the circuit that all the riders have been complaining about?

Comparing with Rossi he dominated from 2001-2005 and like you say gave the title away in 2006 when he crashed out in the last race giving the title to Nicky Hayden and there lies the level of opposition he was up against, he often played with the field making the racing seem interesting before scampering off in the final laps.

Let's not also forget that Rossi crashed and broke his leg in 2010 which put him out of the title race with his teammate Lorenzo, so that's 2 titles he potential lost through crashing.

It's Marquez's on the edge riding that makes him so exciting to watch and yes occasionally he might mess up but in terms of vulnerability you kind of make it seem like it's one in every 3 races he's going to mess up when we are actually talking about someone who has won 5 titles in the last 6 years, any lack of domination when comparing with Rossi as such is not because of crashing but because of not always having the best bike and having better opposition which includes Rossi himself.

I think you're overreacting here. Not sure how you got the idea that I meant one in three races when I actually said he has "a couple of races" every year where he crashes out due to his own mistake. Generally "a couple" means two, so that's very far from one in three races. More like one in nine races. Either way it's more than Rossi. In Rossi's last two seasons with Honda, he finished on the podium in 31 out of 32 races. That's a level of consistency that Marc has never reached.

I'm not trying to take anything away from Marc but he crashes more than Rossi did when Rossi was dominating the sport. His crash in Austin had nothing to do with not having the best bike either because this year, he has a bike that is extremely competitive. He is just more on the limit than any other rider. You see it in practice; where he crashes quite frequently. He consistently pushes the limit and that's why he is the fastest guy out there but it's also why he occasionally crashes. I also do agree that Marc is facing a tougher field of competition during his prime but I don't blame that for the crashes. The crashes are just an element of who he is. They are his Achilles heel. Without them, he literally would be unbeatable.

Having gotten one out of his system, we probably won't see him take another spill for quite some time. It's been a long time since 2015; a year where his mistakes really took him out of the running; and I think he has mostly learned to mitigate his own tendency to push a little too close to the edge. I still expect Marc to run away with the championship but it's interesting to note that Marc has never surpassed his number of podium finishes from his rookie year. He finished on the podium 16 times that year and has never been able to match that number since.


Quite right. Marc has always been a crasher. He usually is in the top third of crashers each season, and was at No 1 both in 2017 (27)and 2018 (23). Like Marc Cal pushes the front end of the Honda to its limits; which is probably one of the reasons Cal has a full factory contract with Honda.

https://www.crash.net/motogp/feature/91 ... falls-list

Crashing in practice doesn't really matter unless you get hurt.



Really? Well thank you for that nugget. But obviously in respect of Marquez ; which is what we are discussing, he has hurt himself numerous times with so many falls. Probably why theirs been a plethora of articles and quotes from Marquez himself over the winter on how his injuries have affected his preparations for this season; testing and his approach to a race weekend. Even some suggestions that it may affect the length of his career.

He had an operation on his shoulder to stop it popping out of it's joint which did restrict his winter testing but it's not stopped his ability to dominate a race, in 2015 he broke his leg a month or so before the season in a motor cross accident but then went on to win 10 races in a row, his leg was still not fully healed for the start of the season.

It's possible his recent operation may reign in his practice excesses but unlike Rossi, Lorenzo or Pedrosa he's never lost a world title because of injury, as such he does have too many offs in practice but the crashes in races are slightly exaggerated in respect to evaluating a weakness in comparison to Rossi's dominant era 2001-2005 when he was the out and out best rider and for the most part on the out and out best bike were he often didn't have to push to his limit.

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