planetf1.com

It is currently Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:34 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:25 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6698
Invade wrote:
I'm also just a casual followed of MotoGP. It's scary to think what Marquez might achieve by the end of his career. He's showcasing a rare dominance in the history of sports which making me think of the likes of Bolt or Jahangir Khan.

But out of those three I'm inclined -- despite him not even beginning to make good on his maximum potentially funnily enough -- to give Bolt the most respect for his dominance. Squash is still not a particularly popular global sport, nor does it have a particularly large player base. Now can somebody tell me, does the world of bikes and MotoGP suffer similarly? An awful lot of drivers are either Spanish or Italian. What is the depth of talent here? Does Marquez shine as he does as merely a single anomoly, where in many other sports 2-3-4 anomalies are more likely to exist at the same time making it nearly impossible to demonstrate sole dominance and superiority over the field?

Comparisons are impossible but what I'm basically asking is, just how special is M.Marquez? Phil Taylor showed this type of dominance for many many years in darts, but the stats show that Michael Van Gerwen is no worse - actually he's probably better. He sure as heck won't win as much though. Taylor dominated darts for such a long period as the only special anomoly in the whole field. When a talent which rises above the rest presents itself in chess, I'm inclined to give it far more credence given how global and widely played the game is. As such, Kasparov's exploits were quite extraordinary and Carlsen is forging a similar path today.

Thoughts?

You can't compare any motor sport to something like track and field. There are no economic barriers to entry in track and field and the talent pool from which you must rise to be the best is comprised of literally millions of people. Same with football, basketball, etc. Usain Bolt is a one in a billion athlete as is Messi, Lebron, etc. There are maybe a few thousand people in the world who even compete in motorcycle racing seriously and even fewer who got started young enough for MotoGP to be remotely realistic. Car racing has a larger pool of participants than motorcycles but it is still minuscule by comparison to sports that aren't prohibitively expensive and extremely exclusive. If motor racing was as accessible as football, it's likely that many of the drivers that we think of as all-time greats would not have even been good enough to make it to F1.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 10:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 2310
sandman1347 wrote:
Invade wrote:
I'm also just a casual followed of MotoGP. It's scary to think what Marquez might achieve by the end of his career. He's showcasing a rare dominance in the history of sports which making me think of the likes of Bolt or Jahangir Khan.

But out of those three I'm inclined -- despite him not even beginning to make good on his maximum potentially funnily enough -- to give Bolt the most respect for his dominance. Squash is still not a particularly popular global sport, nor does it have a particularly large player base. Now can somebody tell me, does the world of bikes and MotoGP suffer similarly? An awful lot of drivers are either Spanish or Italian. What is the depth of talent here? Does Marquez shine as he does as merely a single anomoly, where in many other sports 2-3-4 anomalies are more likely to exist at the same time making it nearly impossible to demonstrate sole dominance and superiority over the field?

Comparisons are impossible but what I'm basically asking is, just how special is M.Marquez? Phil Taylor showed this type of dominance for many many years in darts, but the stats show that Michael Van Gerwen is no worse - actually he's probably better. He sure as heck won't win as much though. Taylor dominated darts for such a long period as the only special anomoly in the whole field. When a talent which rises above the rest presents itself in chess, I'm inclined to give it far more credence given how global and widely played the game is. As such, Kasparov's exploits were quite extraordinary and Carlsen is forging a similar path today.

Thoughts?

You can't compare any motor sport to something like track and field. There are no economic barriers to entry in track and field and the talent pool from which you must rise to be the best is comprised of literally millions of people. Same with football, basketball, etc. Usain Bolt is a one in a billion athlete as is Messi, Lebron, etc. There are maybe a few thousand people in the world who even compete in motorcycle racing seriously and even fewer who got started young enough for MotoGP to be remotely realistic. Car racing has a larger pool of participants than motorcycles but it is still minuscule by comparison to sports that aren't prohibitively expensive and extremely exclusive. If motor racing was as accessible as football, it's likely that many of the drivers that we think of as all-time greats would not have even been good enough to make it to F1.



Exactly.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 7143
Location: Michigan, USA
sandman1347 wrote:
You can't compare any motor sport to something like track and field. There are no economic barriers to entry in track and field and the talent pool from which you must rise to be the best is comprised of literally millions of people. Same with football, basketball, etc. Usain Bolt is a one in a billion athlete as is Messi, Lebron, etc. There are maybe a few thousand people in the world who even compete in motorcycle racing seriously and even fewer who got started young enough for MotoGP to be remotely realistic. Car racing has a larger pool of participants than motorcycles but it is still minuscule by comparison to sports that aren't prohibitively expensive and extremely exclusive. If motor racing was as accessible as football, it's likely that many of the drivers that we think of as all-time greats would not have even been good enough to make it to F1.

Slightly off topic, but this leads me onto a somewhat contentious view that I hold -- namely, that the top sim racers are very likely better than their top physical counterparts in terms of raw talent. The talent pool for physical racing is much smaller, whereas there are no financial inhibitions to prevent the best out of everyone who enters sim racing from rising to the top.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2019 11:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6698
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
You can't compare any motor sport to something like track and field. There are no economic barriers to entry in track and field and the talent pool from which you must rise to be the best is comprised of literally millions of people. Same with football, basketball, etc. Usain Bolt is a one in a billion athlete as is Messi, Lebron, etc. There are maybe a few thousand people in the world who even compete in motorcycle racing seriously and even fewer who got started young enough for MotoGP to be remotely realistic. Car racing has a larger pool of participants than motorcycles but it is still minuscule by comparison to sports that aren't prohibitively expensive and extremely exclusive. If motor racing was as accessible as football, it's likely that many of the drivers that we think of as all-time greats would not have even been good enough to make it to F1.

Slightly off topic, but this leads me onto a somewhat contentious view that I hold -- namely, that the top sim racers are very likely better than their top physical counterparts in terms of raw talent. The talent pool for physical racing is much smaller, whereas there are no financial inhibitions to prevent the best out of everyone who enters sim racing from rising to the top.

Having turned the wheel in anger on a few race tracks in real life and logged hundreds of hours in various racing sims over the years; I can tell you that, in my opinion, there is a substantial difference between the two. They aren't similar enough to make that statement IMO. In other words, the talent that makes you a great sim player is substantially different from the talent that makes you a great racing driver. Sim racing is much less physical, does not have anything to do with dealing with fear and just generally doesn't present the same level of overall challenge. You also get feedback from the car in a completely different way.

Every now and then there are sim racing competitions where the winner gets a real racing drive. The winners go on to have varying levels of success but none of them have become best of the best-level drivers.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 12:46 pm
Posts: 768
Location: McKinney, TX
Miller inks a one-year extension with Ducati and Pramac, giving him a factory ride along with Bagnaia.
The entire field is signed for next year with the exception of the now vacant KTM ride that Zarco is abandoning.

I’m guessing that KTM will tip someone for from in-house, unless there is a late surprise from another series. Pedrosa has already stated he doesn’t want to return to racing.

_________________
I'd rather die than be overtaken.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:18 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32145
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
You can't compare any motor sport to something like track and field. There are no economic barriers to entry in track and field and the talent pool from which you must rise to be the best is comprised of literally millions of people. Same with football, basketball, etc. Usain Bolt is a one in a billion athlete as is Messi, Lebron, etc. There are maybe a few thousand people in the world who even compete in motorcycle racing seriously and even fewer who got started young enough for MotoGP to be remotely realistic. Car racing has a larger pool of participants than motorcycles but it is still minuscule by comparison to sports that aren't prohibitively expensive and extremely exclusive. If motor racing was as accessible as football, it's likely that many of the drivers that we think of as all-time greats would not have even been good enough to make it to F1.

Slightly off topic, but this leads me onto a somewhat contentious view that I hold -- namely, that the top sim racers are very likely better than their top physical counterparts in terms of raw talent. The talent pool for physical racing is much smaller, whereas there are no financial inhibitions to prevent the best out of everyone who enters sim racing from rising to the top.

Having turned the wheel in anger on a few race tracks in real life and logged hundreds of hours in various racing sims over the years; I can tell you that, in my opinion, there is a substantial difference between the two. They aren't similar enough to make that statement IMO. In other words, the talent that makes you a great sim player is substantially different from the talent that makes you a great racing driver. Sim racing is much less physical, does not have anything to do with dealing with fear and just generally doesn't present the same level of overall challenge. You also get feedback from the car in a completely different way.

Every now and then there are sim racing competitions where the winner gets a real racing drive. The winners go on to have varying levels of success but none of them have become best of the best-level drivers.

Yes wasn't Jan Magnenberg (spelling?) the first, he got a fully sponsored drive in single seaters for a few years, were is he now?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 28, 2005 12:46 pm
Posts: 768
Location: McKinney, TX
Zarco acknowledges Moto2 is an option:

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ ... lT0hBw8eF0

Sheesh. Twice champion of a series he's now willingly relegating himself to.

I believe him that that he was so despondent about the KTM bike and his ability to adapt to it, that quitting his contract was the only option in his mind. That being said, if I were him, I'd have stuck it out another year, at least keep yourself in the game, and then challenge for a seat that would be available for the 2021 season. Now, if he returns to Moto2, doesn't do well, or even goes to WBSK---the idea that he could jump there for a year and set the world on fire again with the hopes of returning to MotoGP in 2021....that just seems so implausible. But, maybe someone will change their mind in 2021. I bet he'd like Quartararo's seat at Petronas Yamaha come 2021, as I think it is no-brainer that Quartararo moves up to the factory seat of either Vinales or Rossi---who I cannot see Yamaha keeping, either of them.

What a mess Zarco made for himself by taking the KTM job---which, I read somewhere else, his manager did for him in 2017!!!!!!!! I'll have to find that link again.

_________________
I'd rather die than be overtaken.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6698
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
You can't compare any motor sport to something like track and field. There are no economic barriers to entry in track and field and the talent pool from which you must rise to be the best is comprised of literally millions of people. Same with football, basketball, etc. Usain Bolt is a one in a billion athlete as is Messi, Lebron, etc. There are maybe a few thousand people in the world who even compete in motorcycle racing seriously and even fewer who got started young enough for MotoGP to be remotely realistic. Car racing has a larger pool of participants than motorcycles but it is still minuscule by comparison to sports that aren't prohibitively expensive and extremely exclusive. If motor racing was as accessible as football, it's likely that many of the drivers that we think of as all-time greats would not have even been good enough to make it to F1.

Slightly off topic, but this leads me onto a somewhat contentious view that I hold -- namely, that the top sim racers are very likely better than their top physical counterparts in terms of raw talent. The talent pool for physical racing is much smaller, whereas there are no financial inhibitions to prevent the best out of everyone who enters sim racing from rising to the top.

Having turned the wheel in anger on a few race tracks in real life and logged hundreds of hours in various racing sims over the years; I can tell you that, in my opinion, there is a substantial difference between the two. They aren't similar enough to make that statement IMO. In other words, the talent that makes you a great sim player is substantially different from the talent that makes you a great racing driver. Sim racing is much less physical, does not have anything to do with dealing with fear and just generally doesn't present the same level of overall challenge. You also get feedback from the car in a completely different way.

Every now and then there are sim racing competitions where the winner gets a real racing drive. The winners go on to have varying levels of success but none of them have become best of the best-level drivers.

Yes wasn't Jan Magnenberg (spelling?) the first, he got a fully sponsored drive in single seaters for a few years, were is he now?

Japan. He races in the Super GT series last I heard.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 7:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Sep 15, 2008 9:23 am
Posts: 2891
Cold Gin wrote:
Zarco acknowledges Moto2 is an option:

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ ... lT0hBw8eF0

Sheesh. Twice champion of a series he's now willingly relegating himself to.

I believe him that that he was so despondent about the KTM bike and his ability to adapt to it, that quitting his contract was the only option in his mind. That being said, if I were him, I'd have stuck it out another year, at least keep yourself in the game, and then challenge for a seat that would be available for the 2021 season. Now, if he returns to Moto2, doesn't do well, or even goes to WBSK---the idea that he could jump there for a year and set the world on fire again with the hopes of returning to MotoGP in 2021....that just seems so implausible. But, maybe someone will change their mind in 2021. I bet he'd like Quartararo's seat at Petronas Yamaha come 2021, as I think it is no-brainer that Quartararo moves up to the factory seat of either Vinales or Rossi---who I cannot see Yamaha keeping, either of them.

What a mess Zarco made for himself by taking the KTM job---which, I read somewhere else, his manager did for him in 2017!!!!!!!! I'll have to find that link again.


Yes, his name was Fellon. He signed Zarco with KTM in 17, yet in the following year he was negotiating with both Honda and Yamaha as though Zarco was contract free in 19. Zarco sacked him shortly after joining KTM.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32145
sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
You can't compare any motor sport to something like track and field. There are no economic barriers to entry in track and field and the talent pool from which you must rise to be the best is comprised of literally millions of people. Same with football, basketball, etc. Usain Bolt is a one in a billion athlete as is Messi, Lebron, etc. There are maybe a few thousand people in the world who even compete in motorcycle racing seriously and even fewer who got started young enough for MotoGP to be remotely realistic. Car racing has a larger pool of participants than motorcycles but it is still minuscule by comparison to sports that aren't prohibitively expensive and extremely exclusive. If motor racing was as accessible as football, it's likely that many of the drivers that we think of as all-time greats would not have even been good enough to make it to F1.

Slightly off topic, but this leads me onto a somewhat contentious view that I hold -- namely, that the top sim racers are very likely better than their top physical counterparts in terms of raw talent. The talent pool for physical racing is much smaller, whereas there are no financial inhibitions to prevent the best out of everyone who enters sim racing from rising to the top.

Having turned the wheel in anger on a few race tracks in real life and logged hundreds of hours in various racing sims over the years; I can tell you that, in my opinion, there is a substantial difference between the two. They aren't similar enough to make that statement IMO. In other words, the talent that makes you a great sim player is substantially different from the talent that makes you a great racing driver. Sim racing is much less physical, does not have anything to do with dealing with fear and just generally doesn't present the same level of overall challenge. You also get feedback from the car in a completely different way.

Every now and then there are sim racing competitions where the winner gets a real racing drive. The winners go on to have varying levels of success but none of them have become best of the best-level drivers.

Yes wasn't Jan Magnenberg (spelling?) the first, he got a fully sponsored drive in single seaters for a few years, were is he now?

Japan. He races in the Super GT series last I heard.

Cheers, he fell woefully short of making it into F1.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: 2019 Motogp Season
PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2019 2:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32145
shoot999 wrote:
Cold Gin wrote:
Zarco acknowledges Moto2 is an option:

https://www.motorsport.com/motogp/news/ ... lT0hBw8eF0

Sheesh. Twice champion of a series he's now willingly relegating himself to.

I believe him that that he was so despondent about the KTM bike and his ability to adapt to it, that quitting his contract was the only option in his mind. That being said, if I were him, I'd have stuck it out another year, at least keep yourself in the game, and then challenge for a seat that would be available for the 2021 season. Now, if he returns to Moto2, doesn't do well, or even goes to WBSK---the idea that he could jump there for a year and set the world on fire again with the hopes of returning to MotoGP in 2021....that just seems so implausible. But, maybe someone will change their mind in 2021. I bet he'd like Quartararo's seat at Petronas Yamaha come 2021, as I think it is no-brainer that Quartararo moves up to the factory seat of either Vinales or Rossi---who I cannot see Yamaha keeping, either of them.

What a mess Zarco made for himself by taking the KTM job---which, I read somewhere else, his manager did for him in 2017!!!!!!!! I'll have to find that link again.


Yes, his name was Fellon. He signed Zarco with KTM in 17, yet in the following year he was negotiating with both Honda and Yamaha as though Zarco was contract free in 19. Zarco sacked him shortly after joining KTM.

So Zarco had no choice, not good.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 23rd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mikeyg123, Option or Prime and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group