planetf1.com

It is currently Mon Apr 22, 2019 2:36 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:21 pm
Posts: 844
Like last season, as I early predicted, its dependable on track. I don't think Merc is head and shoulders above Ferrari or even above overall.
This era of F1 being so ultra-technical and... perfectionist, any non-optimal setup for a specific track can lead to massive difference at the end of a single lap. Its about make or break. I think Merc just got the perfect setup in Melbourne plus they usually go very well there. As it was observed in the onboard comparison lap there wasn't a specific place where Ferrari was losing time, it was a bit from everywhere.
I think in Bahrain Ferrari will have the upper hand, and will dominate further the next tracks.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 10:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:18 am
Posts: 296
pokerman wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
What I find annoying is when Ferrari and Red Bull was dominating, FIA tried every trick in the book to slow them down. Mercedes has been more dominant for a longer period of time, and FIA have just let it happen.

We are currently in a period of the sport where one team has won everything since 2014, and only 6 drivers have a realistic chance at a podium. If that isn’t a sign of an unhealthy sport then I don’t know what is.

They have changed the regulation of the cars twice and with the engines we are seeing convergence, Ferrari seemed to have the best engine last season and a car good enough to win the title these past 2 seasons especially last year.

I was thinking about this. If Mercedes are dominant this year, you can expect that the 2021 regulations will be explicitly designed to break their strangle-hold on the sport. What's not clear is how exactly that might be accomplished. Any change that is made to the regs; Merc will be able to throw more money and resources at it than anyone else. They are a far larger corporate entity than any of the other teams. They make Ferrari look like a mom and pop shop.

I think that the current plan of only removing the MGU-H from the engines in 2021 is not very smart. Cost cutting and simplification are the paths to greater competitive balance. They should make radical changes to the engine formula IMO but not to make things more complex; to make things simpler.

I thought that removing the MGU-H has been put to bed now, they were only going to remove it to attract new engine manufacturers but none are joining so the engines will now remain the same?

F1 has always been an engineering exercise and not a spec series and the best financed teams tend to come out on top, one way to equalise things is with a budget cap but that comes with the loss of jobs.

Mercedes are just a great team that will be successful whatever the regs, I'm not sure that Mercedes get credit for the cars they produce as opposed to someone like Red Bull, when Red Bull were winning people were more accepting of their success in being able to build the best car but with Mercedes some people still seem to be wrapped up with the engine they produce despite the obvious engine convergence.

Now going into this season it is more about who actually builds the best car, that's the DNA of F1, this article goes into the different design philosophies that are going to decide who ends up with the best car.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/47527705


That's my understanding as well. The MGU-H is here to stay. It is thought to be the biggest deterrent for a new supplier to enter F1, but in the absent of an new manufacturers combined with the current ones not wishing to loose it because this makes the PU so energy efficient. They are able to collect a lot of electrical energy of the spinning turbo, which can then be released to increase the power output into the rear wheels, and to keep the turbo running at an optimal speed, reducing or eliminating turbo lag.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6027
So this year is starting to follow the same pattern as last year. Ferrari looking best of all in testing then Mercedes showing dominant pace in Australia and then Ferrari looking strongest of all the following race. For me, it seems obvious that Melbourne is just a weakness for Ferrari (although I don't really know why). It's too soon to say for certain and I think we will need another couple of races before we can feel confident but, at the very least, we know that the form book in Australia was not in any way representative of what we can expect.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 1:05 pm
Posts: 7672
sandman1347 wrote:
So this year is starting to follow the same pattern as last year. Ferrari looking best of all in testing then Mercedes showing dominant pace in Australia and then Ferrari looking strongest of all the following race. For me, it seems obvious that Melbourne is just a weakness for Ferrari (although I don't really know why). It's too soon to say for certain and I think we will need another couple of races before we can feel confident but, at the very least, we know that the form book in Australia was not in any way representative of what we can expect.

Mercedes looked best in testing last year, by some margin, when the times were tyre corrected. This year Ferrari looked clearly the best.

Last year we saw Mercedes once again dominant when we came back to Spain, so it will be interesting to see if this year follows the same pattern with Ferrari clearly the best there, but it looks like another up and down season like last year IMO where the advantage will be circuit dependent.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:21 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 24693
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
So this year is starting to follow the same pattern as last year. Ferrari looking best of all in testing then Mercedes showing dominant pace in Australia and then Ferrari looking strongest of all the following race. For me, it seems obvious that Melbourne is just a weakness for Ferrari (although I don't really know why). It's too soon to say for certain and I think we will need another couple of races before we can feel confident but, at the very least, we know that the form book in Australia was not in any way representative of what we can expect.

Mercedes looked best in testing last year, by some margin, when the times were tyre corrected. This year Ferrari looked clearly the best.

Last year we saw Mercedes once again dominant when we came back to Spain, so it will be interesting to see if this year follows the same pattern with Ferrari clearly the best there, but it looks like another up and down season like last year IMO where the advantage will be circuit dependent.

Personally I think it's way too early to tell with any confidence. Last race Mercedes were ahead, this time it's Ferrari. I don't think we can predict what happens next time around just yet.

One pattern that's seems to be repeating from last year is that when Merc are ahead they are really ahead, but Ferrari have a smaller margin. Don't know if that's even significant but could point to tomorrow being a bit closer than it was in Australia. Strategy could yet provide an upset on Sunday


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6027
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
So this year is starting to follow the same pattern as last year. Ferrari looking best of all in testing then Mercedes showing dominant pace in Australia and then Ferrari looking strongest of all the following race. For me, it seems obvious that Melbourne is just a weakness for Ferrari (although I don't really know why). It's too soon to say for certain and I think we will need another couple of races before we can feel confident but, at the very least, we know that the form book in Australia was not in any way representative of what we can expect.

Mercedes looked best in testing last year, by some margin, when the times were tyre corrected. This year Ferrari looked clearly the best.

Last year we saw Mercedes once again dominant when we came back to Spain, so it will be interesting to see if this year follows the same pattern with Ferrari clearly the best there, but it looks like another up and down season like last year IMO where the advantage will be circuit dependent.

If you'll recall, last year in Spain was one of three races where the FIA mandated a modified tire compound (which seemed to work in Mercedes' favor big time). Outside of those races, Ferrari were pretty consistently the quickest car up until well after the summer break. I don't think I would exactly say that it was circuit-dependent because I actually don't think it was the characteristics of the circuits that determined who was quickest necessarily. Rainy weather played a factor as did that period of time where Ferrari seemed to make a wrong turn in development (or the FIA installed that second sensor - depending on how you choose to look at it). Then there was also the period where Mercedes struggled with tires after covering the holes in the wheel rims (fearing a potential protest from their rivals).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 5:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 17, 2006 3:21 pm
Posts: 844
sandman1347 wrote:
So this year is starting to follow the same pattern as last year. Ferrari looking best of all in testing then Mercedes showing dominant pace in Australia and then Ferrari looking strongest of all the following race. For me, it seems obvious that Melbourne is just a weakness for Ferrari (although I don't really know why). It's too soon to say for certain and I think we will need another couple of races before we can feel confident but, at the very least, we know that the form book in Australia was not in any way representative of what we can expect.


Melbourne is a weakness for Ferrari because the track its about 'angular' corners, many 90 deg - ish, so not a lot of reliance on mid-corner grip, which is Ferrari's strength. So it asks for good balance for entry and exit of corner, at which Mercedes thrives (in correspondance too wet behaviour too, in which you also don't use to much full lock). This more or less pattern has been kept for almost all modern era cars I think, before Ferrari challenged Merc. Ferrari always had a great mid corner grip (it loves full lock) but not great at entry and exit.
I've been saying this for some few years now.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Mar 30, 2019 6:16 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6027
Bacus wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
So this year is starting to follow the same pattern as last year. Ferrari looking best of all in testing then Mercedes showing dominant pace in Australia and then Ferrari looking strongest of all the following race. For me, it seems obvious that Melbourne is just a weakness for Ferrari (although I don't really know why). It's too soon to say for certain and I think we will need another couple of races before we can feel confident but, at the very least, we know that the form book in Australia was not in any way representative of what we can expect.


Melbourne is a weakness for Ferrari because the track its about 'angular' corners, many 90 deg - ish, so not a lot of reliance on mid-corner grip, which is Ferrari's strength. So it asks for good balance for entry and exit of corner, at which Mercedes thrives (in correspondance too wet behaviour too, in which you also don't use to much full lock). This more or less pattern has been kept for almost all modern era cars I think, before Ferrari challenged Merc. Ferrari always had a great mid corner grip (it loves full lock) but not great at entry and exit.
I've been saying this for some few years now.

That's an interesting thought; although for much of last year, I would say that Ferrari had better performance in the slow speed corners.

For me, Ferrari's advantage both this year and last has been their straight line speed. Have you seen the speed trap figures? They are killing Mercedes in a straight line. It's clear that they did not run the PU at full beans in Australia because they absolutely slaughtered everyone out there today.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 24693
So here it was clearly Ferrari>Mercedes.....>Red Bull. In fact I'd go so far as to say that Red Bull may have been behind both McLaren and Renault and I think Verstappen is responsible for sparing their blushes there.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 5:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 30252
Zoue wrote:
So here it was clearly Ferrari>Mercedes.....>Red Bull. In fact I'd go so far as to say that Red Bull may have been behind both McLaren and Renault and I think Verstappen is responsible for sparing their blushes there.

Indeed and if we have a 3-2-1 scoring system after 2 races I have it:-

1. Mercedes 5pts
2. Ferrari 4pts
3. Red Bull 3pts

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 32nd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 7:41 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 2092
Ferrari had the speed in Bahrain but it's two races in a row where they've had "issues" and perhaps this time it was just fluke misfortune OR maybe Ferrari have issues which they don't have definitive and balanced solutions for yet.

Therefore, it's advantage Mercedes overall. Ferrari are yet to prove their reliability. Even Vettel's front wing went pop because of flat-spotted tyres. That's all it took.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:00 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 2092
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
So here it was clearly Ferrari>Mercedes.....>Red Bull. In fact I'd go so far as to say that Red Bull may have been behind both McLaren and Renault and I think Verstappen is responsible for sparing their blushes there.

Indeed and if we have a 3-2-1 scoring system after 2 races I have it:-

1. Mercedes 5pts
2. Ferrari 4pts
3. Red Bull 3pts


Can we deduct a point if one team shows the ability on one car to not have a fully functioning PU and on the other car a front wing that goes pop with some tyre imbalance?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:17 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:06 pm
Posts: 2693
Location: England
Starting to look like the rumours of the engine being massively turned down/overcooled in Australia might have something to them on the Ferrari. Vettel had the 'high gear' warning on his wheel too even after his adventure with the spin and front wing and obviously Leclerc had the H go on him. Still looked the much better car today though, the difference in front end between Vettel and Hamilton when Lewis was on the softs was very marked, and Hamilton was on the supposedly grippier tyres.

If Ferrari can get the lump singing for the entire race at full chat, we could be in for a hell of a year.

Red Bull looked in a world of pain today mind.... Before the contact Sainz looked all over Verstappen, and Gasly was absolutely nowhere on a track he excelled at last year, and spent a fair bit of time dicing with the junior team (not a good look for Gasly that). I fully expect them to work it out on the chassis side, and on an upnote it looks like Honda have finally brought something usable to the party.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2019:
Current positon: 2nd | 3 Podiums | 3 Wins
2018 Pick 10 Champion


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 8:31 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9514
In Australia the gap in pace Mercedes had to Ferrari was about the same as Mercedes over Ferrari in Bahrain, so the next race will be interesting.

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 9:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6027
Covalent wrote:
In Australia the gap in pace Mercedes had to Ferrari was about the same as Mercedes over Ferrari in Bahrain, so the next race will be interesting.

Ferrari will be quicker again IMO. I see a clear pattern.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:05 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 6733
Location: Michigan, USA
sandman1347 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
In Australia the gap in pace Mercedes had to Ferrari was about the same as Mercedes over Ferrari in Bahrain, so the next race will be interesting.

Ferrari will be quicker again IMO. I see a clear pattern.

I'm inclined to agree. The pattern looks about the same as last year, and last year China was a Ferrari track.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 30252
Invade wrote:
Ferrari had the speed in Bahrain but it's two races in a row where they've had "issues" and perhaps this time it was just fluke misfortune OR maybe Ferrari have issues which they don't have definitive and balanced solutions for yet.

Therefore, it's advantage Mercedes overall. Ferrari are yet to prove their reliability. Even Vettel's front wing went pop because of flat-spotted tyres. That's all it took.

How it's advantage Mercedes when Vettel's Ferrari was quick enough to win the race but not the driver?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 32nd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 31, 2019 10:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 30252
Invade wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
So here it was clearly Ferrari>Mercedes.....>Red Bull. In fact I'd go so far as to say that Red Bull may have been behind both McLaren and Renault and I think Verstappen is responsible for sparing their blushes there.

Indeed and if we have a 3-2-1 scoring system after 2 races I have it:-

1. Mercedes 5pts
2. Ferrari 4pts
3. Red Bull 3pts


Can we deduct a point if one team shows the ability on one car to not have a fully functioning PU and on the other car a front wing that goes pop with some tyre imbalance?

Not when one driver damaged his race winning capable car.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 32nd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 3:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2003 11:31 am
Posts: 1747
Red Bull was in Renault category today.

Look like a solid second behind Ferrari. I'd say 0.6 secs due to chassis/aero and 0.4 due to engine. Newey and co have done a terrible job with the new regs.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 2092
pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
Ferrari had the speed in Bahrain but it's two races in a row where they've had "issues" and perhaps this time it was just fluke misfortune OR maybe Ferrari have issues which they don't have definitive and balanced solutions for yet.

Therefore, it's advantage Mercedes overall. Ferrari are yet to prove their reliability. Even Vettel's front wing went pop because of flat-spotted tyres. That's all it took.

How it's advantage Mercedes when Vettel's Ferrari was quick enough to win the race but not the driver?



Advantage Mercedes for the season so far which is what I meant by overall, given i'd just referenced both races in the first statement. But like I asked, should we deduct a point for such reliability of components on both cars? ;)

Ferrari might be right on the dangerous limit in producing their current performance, which for sure looked mightier than Mercedes' in Bahrain.

pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
So here it was clearly Ferrari>Mercedes.....>Red Bull. In fact I'd go so far as to say that Red Bull may have been behind both McLaren and Renault and I think Verstappen is responsible for sparing their blushes there.

Indeed and if we have a 3-2-1 scoring system after 2 races I have it:-

1. Mercedes 5pts
2. Ferrari 4pts
3. Red Bull 3pts


Can we deduct a point if one team shows the ability on one car to not have a fully functioning PU and on the other car a front wing that goes pop with some tyre imbalance?

Not when one driver damaged his race winning capable car.


:thumbup:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 6:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 2092
Straights = Ferrari.
Corners = Mercedes.


Generally speaking...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 5:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 30252
Invade wrote:
Straights = Ferrari.
Corners = Mercedes.


Generally speaking...

Like last year then?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 32nd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 8:25 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 6733
Location: Michigan, USA
pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
Straights = Ferrari.
Corners = Mercedes.


Generally speaking...

Like last year then?

Pretty much. It's a small pattern so far, but the comparative strengths of the cars appears very similar to 2018, with the difference being worse luck for Ferrari in both races. Going on that basis, Ferrari will have a sizable advantage in China.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:40 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 30252
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
Straights = Ferrari.
Corners = Mercedes.


Generally speaking...

Like last year then?

Pretty much. It's a small pattern so far, but the comparative strengths of the cars appears very similar to 2018, with the difference being worse luck for Ferrari in both races. Going on that basis, Ferrari will have a sizable advantage in China.

Leclerc for the win then? :)

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 32nd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 01, 2019 11:58 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 6733
Location: Michigan, USA
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Pretty much. It's a small pattern so far, but the comparative strengths of the cars appears very similar to 2018, with the difference being worse luck for Ferrari in both races. Going on that basis, Ferrari will have a sizable advantage in China.

Leclerc for the win then? :)

I intend to predict exactly that! 8)

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 1:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6027
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
Straights = Ferrari.
Corners = Mercedes.


Generally speaking...

Like last year then?

Pretty much. It's a small pattern so far, but the comparative strengths of the cars appears very similar to 2018, with the difference being worse luck for Ferrari in both races. Going on that basis, Ferrari will have a sizable advantage in China.

Leclerc for the win then? :)

That depends on a lot of things. I think Vettel will be as serious as a heart attack about winning that race. There might also be rain; in which case I would expect to see Hamilton as a major threat. There's also the possibility that we have misread the form book and that Merc will have an edge. It's too early to have this level of confidence in the outcome. Charles has been impressive but we need to see whether Bahrain was merely a poor weekend from Vettel or a genuine sign of things to come.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 4353
Location: LONDON...!
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Invade wrote:
Straights = Ferrari.
Corners = Mercedes.


Generally speaking...

Like last year then?

Pretty much. It's a small pattern so far, but the comparative strengths of the cars appears very similar to 2018, with the difference being worse luck for Ferrari in both races. Going on that basis, Ferrari will have a sizable advantage in China.

You'd expect Merc to take off some wing.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 6733
Location: Michigan, USA
Clarky wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Pretty much. It's a small pattern so far, but the comparative strengths of the cars appears very similar to 2018, with the difference being worse luck for Ferrari in both races. Going on that basis, Ferrari will have a sizable advantage in China.

You'd expect Merc to take off some wing.

Then they won't be faster through the corners anymore. There's no good counter for a stronger PU.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 7:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Nov 13, 2011 4:09 pm
Posts: 4353
Location: LONDON...!
Exediron wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Pretty much. It's a small pattern so far, but the comparative strengths of the cars appears very similar to 2018, with the difference being worse luck for Ferrari in both races. Going on that basis, Ferrari will have a sizable advantage in China.

You'd expect Merc to take off some wing.

Then they won't be faster through the corners anymore. There's no good counter for a stronger PU.

It will come down to how much they take off.

They wouldn't give up all corner speed for straight line.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 30252
Exediron wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Pretty much. It's a small pattern so far, but the comparative strengths of the cars appears very similar to 2018, with the difference being worse luck for Ferrari in both races. Going on that basis, Ferrari will have a sizable advantage in China.

Leclerc for the win then? :)

I intend to predict exactly that! 8)

Well let's keep that to ourselves? ;)

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 32nd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 30252
Exediron wrote:
Clarky wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Pretty much. It's a small pattern so far, but the comparative strengths of the cars appears very similar to 2018, with the difference being worse luck for Ferrari in both races. Going on that basis, Ferrari will have a sizable advantage in China.

You'd expect Merc to take off some wing.

Then they won't be faster through the corners anymore. There's no good counter for a stronger PU.

Plus I'm guessing it helps tyre management?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 32nd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:39 am
Posts: 24693
I thought that manufacturers had to give customers exactly the same spec as they have:? This article claims Ferrari have a package exclusive to them:

Auto Motor und Sport claim that Ferrari have broken through the 1000 horsepower barrier but are loathed to admit it. The report refers to the “Ferrari miracle engine” which is exclusive to the works team and not an option for their customer teams Haas and Alfa Romeo just yet.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/04/08/horner-the-fuel-ferrari-use-smells-like-grapefruit-juice/

There's a link to the original article from Auto Moror und Sport but I can't read German :-((


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 7049
Zoue wrote:
I thought that manufacturers had to give customers exactly the same spec as they have:? This article claims Ferrari have a package exclusive to them:

Auto Motor und Sport claim that Ferrari have broken through the 1000 horsepower barrier but are loathed to admit it. The report refers to the “Ferrari miracle engine” which is exclusive to the works team and not an option for their customer teams Haas and Alfa Romeo just yet.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/04/08/horner-the-fuel-ferrari-use-smells-like-grapefruit-juice/

There's a link to the original article from Auto Moror und Sport but I can't read German :-((


Not sure about the bold bit, but it was Schumacher Jr. that gave that away in his recent testing. He mentioned Ferrari being over 1000bhp, the first time a number was put down on that PU.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2019 3:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:06 pm
Posts: 2693
Location: England
Zoue wrote:
I thought that manufacturers had to give customers exactly the same spec as they have:? This article claims Ferrari have a package exclusive to them:

Auto Motor und Sport claim that Ferrari have broken through the 1000 horsepower barrier but are loathed to admit it. The report refers to the “Ferrari miracle engine” which is exclusive to the works team and not an option for their customer teams Haas and Alfa Romeo just yet.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/04/08/horner-the-fuel-ferrari-use-smells-like-grapefruit-juice/

There's a link to the original article from Auto Moror und Sport but I can't read German :-((


Theres been a fair bit of chat since Bahrain about the supposed difference between the lump in the Ferrari and the lump in the Haas/Alfa. Ferrari are supposedly gaining 6 tenths on the straight on the customer teams too, though this is apparently all in the mid --> end phase of the acceleration, at low speed they are all evenly matched. Doing a bit of 2+2 with Horner and Newey's recent comments about engines and fuel (Horner made a point of saying that the fuel in the Ferrari smelt like grapefruit, Newey referred to the fact that they thought all of the engine loopholes had been closed) suggests to me that its probably suspected that whatever Shell fuel Ferrari are running is making the difference.

Fair play if its all above board, perhaps Petronas have some work to do.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2019:
Current positon: 2nd | 3 Podiums | 3 Wins
2018 Pick 10 Champion


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:00 pm
Posts: 4820
I’m pretty sure that customer teams are guaranteed identical spec PU’s but they might always be running the most recent due to usage schedules. Although that shouldn’t be an issue 2 races in.

Also thought I recall something about PU’s going into a pool that all teams using that particular manufacturer draw from so that the factory can’t cherry pick the best units. Not sure if that was just something that was talked about but not implemented or not.

_________________
{Insert clever sig line here}


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:47 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 30252
Flash2k11 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I thought that manufacturers had to give customers exactly the same spec as they have:? This article claims Ferrari have a package exclusive to them:

Auto Motor und Sport claim that Ferrari have broken through the 1000 horsepower barrier but are loathed to admit it. The report refers to the “Ferrari miracle engine” which is exclusive to the works team and not an option for their customer teams Haas and Alfa Romeo just yet.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/04/08/horner-the-fuel-ferrari-use-smells-like-grapefruit-juice/

There's a link to the original article from Auto Moror und Sport but I can't read German :-((


Theres been a fair bit of chat since Bahrain about the supposed difference between the lump in the Ferrari and the lump in the Haas/Alfa. Ferrari are supposedly gaining 6 tenths on the straight on the customer teams too, though this is apparently all in the mid --> end phase of the acceleration, at low speed they are all evenly matched. Doing a bit of 2+2 with Horner and Newey's recent comments about engines and fuel (Horner made a point of saying that the fuel in the Ferrari smelt like grapefruit, Newey referred to the fact that they thought all of the engine loopholes had been closed) suggests to me that its probably suspected that whatever Shell fuel Ferrari are running is making the difference.

Fair play if its all above board, perhaps Petronas have some work to do.

I think Wolff made reference to it but he said he smells like they are burning oil again?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 32nd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 26, 2015 9:33 pm
Posts: 2092
pokerman wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I thought that manufacturers had to give customers exactly the same spec as they have:? This article claims Ferrari have a package exclusive to them:

Auto Motor und Sport claim that Ferrari have broken through the 1000 horsepower barrier but are loathed to admit it. The report refers to the “Ferrari miracle engine” which is exclusive to the works team and not an option for their customer teams Haas and Alfa Romeo just yet.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/04/08/horner-the-fuel-ferrari-use-smells-like-grapefruit-juice/

There's a link to the original article from Auto Moror und Sport but I can't read German :-((


Theres been a fair bit of chat since Bahrain about the supposed difference between the lump in the Ferrari and the lump in the Haas/Alfa. Ferrari are supposedly gaining 6 tenths on the straight on the customer teams too, though this is apparently all in the mid --> end phase of the acceleration, at low speed they are all evenly matched. Doing a bit of 2+2 with Horner and Newey's recent comments about engines and fuel (Horner made a point of saying that the fuel in the Ferrari smelt like grapefruit, Newey referred to the fact that they thought all of the engine loopholes had been closed) suggests to me that its probably suspected that whatever Shell fuel Ferrari are running is making the difference.

Fair play if its all above board, perhaps Petronas have some work to do.

I think Wolff made reference to it but he said he smells like they are burning oil again?


Does grapefruit juice smell like oil?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 30252
Invade wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Flash2k11 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I thought that manufacturers had to give customers exactly the same spec as they have:? This article claims Ferrari have a package exclusive to them:

Auto Motor und Sport claim that Ferrari have broken through the 1000 horsepower barrier but are loathed to admit it. The report refers to the “Ferrari miracle engine” which is exclusive to the works team and not an option for their customer teams Haas and Alfa Romeo just yet.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2019/04/08/horner-the-fuel-ferrari-use-smells-like-grapefruit-juice/

There's a link to the original article from Auto Moror und Sport but I can't read German :-((


Theres been a fair bit of chat since Bahrain about the supposed difference between the lump in the Ferrari and the lump in the Haas/Alfa. Ferrari are supposedly gaining 6 tenths on the straight on the customer teams too, though this is apparently all in the mid --> end phase of the acceleration, at low speed they are all evenly matched. Doing a bit of 2+2 with Horner and Newey's recent comments about engines and fuel (Horner made a point of saying that the fuel in the Ferrari smelt like grapefruit, Newey referred to the fact that they thought all of the engine loopholes had been closed) suggests to me that its probably suspected that whatever Shell fuel Ferrari are running is making the difference.

Fair play if its all above board, perhaps Petronas have some work to do.

I think Wolff made reference to it but he said he smells like they are burning oil again?


Does grapefruit juice smell like oil?

I've no idea I just remember oil being mentioned.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 32nd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:07 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 06, 2006 12:07 pm
Posts: 9514
I can't find anything recent involving Wolff and oil burning... are you sure you're not confused and actually thinking of Horner's comment about the grapefruit smell?

_________________
Räikkönen - Vettel - Bottas
Thank you Nico - You´re the champ!

PF1 Pick 10 Competition 2016: CHAMPION (2 wins, 8 podiums)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:31 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 30252
Covalent wrote:
I can't find anything recent involving Wolff and oil burning... are you sure you're not confused and actually thinking of Horner's comment about the grapefruit smell?

Probably from the telly which tends to be hard to find as opposed to an article?

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 32nd

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (6)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group