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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:27 am 
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Hi guys, I had hoped after the forum reset a few years ago, it would be possible to recover or view my original thread I posted immediately after the Singapore GP 2008 regarding the incident later to be known as Crashgate, one of F1's biggest ever scandals. I named it Fishy Paella after Spaniard Alonso's national dish. But Crashgate was much more apt. In the post I accused Renault, Flavio Briatore, Nelson Piquet Jr and the team's Race Strategist of conspiring to fix the outcome of the race by deliberately crashing NPJ's car to force a safety car handing Fernando Alonso the lead with fuel to the end.

I believe I was the first person internationally to publish, publicly solve and accuse the individuals of the crime.

My logic was simple, the timing, nature and fortunate outcome of the crash was too suspect and Flavio's management had cheated several times before, including multiple counts of fraud in the 80s, using illegal traction control, Schumacher crashing into Damon Hill, Mass Damper and Michelin tread width scandals. Flavio was overdue a good scandal. Fixing the outcome of the race seemed a bit technical for him to devise personally so the likely culprit would be the race strategist which turned out to be Technical Director Pat Symonds. Numerous contracts at Renault including the drivers and sponsors were yet to be renewed, so the team had pressure to get a result to improve their fortunes and get contracts signed.

I did consider whether it was conceivable such a crash could have been accidental but it was just too bizarre that a team boss who had cheated so many times before and happened to wear bright green mankinis off duty [DO NOT POST!] would be so lucky that his driver, Alonso, would win thanks to his own team mate crashing. Especially since Flavio owned the Spanish F1 TV rights ad would benefit personally massively. It was just too good to be true.

Unfortunately very few forum users supported my idea at the time and I was flamed with something like 5 pages of abuse hurled at me (presumably from disgruntled Renault employees or Flavio himself) which was a bit upsetting at the time as I knew my logic was overwhelming.

Roll on 9-12 months later and Nelson Piquet Jr came forward admitting blame and pointing the finger at Briatore and Symonds. I was vindicated and another website compared me and my post to Galileo, which was rather flattering.

Currently I am involved with investigating other international organised crime and would just like some recognition of publicly solving the case as it may help my relationship bringing matters to the Police. Many other viewers must have cracked what happened the same time as me, but it would be nice to get a pat on the back as I came forward first. If you have any recollection of the thread.

If there is any way of recovering the thread I would be most grateful.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:24 am 
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I wasn't around here at the time, but good luck recovering your thread. I would have been among those saying it was a bit conspiracy-theory at the time, but clearly the fullness of history has favored your side.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:53 am 
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I remember the thread but don't remember how I reacted to it at the time. It was and still is a great little story, well done.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:24 am 
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I do remember the amount of abuse and ridicule you got at the time; and the very few apologies you got subsequently.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:53 am 
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The funny thing is it wasn't even necessary. Alonso won the next race anyway.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:17 am 
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I remember the thread... I don't remember my position about your theory, but as I never liked, to say the least, Briatore, I certainly wasn't among the ones finding you were pushing the boundaries too far (but may be wrong because I remember that a lot of posters were not so reluctant to put the blame on Alonso, whom I never disliked).

That said, The Crashgate® was and remain a big thing because it involved numerous key members of the team, including a driver, son of a champion to boot, willingly ruining his career. For many it's the biggest scandal ever in motor racing. For me, as scandalous as it is, it's not worse than crashing deliberately into your opponent to win a championship, parking your car on the track to stop the qualifications once you get the pole etc. It's just as bad.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:27 pm 
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Harpo wrote:
I remember the thread... I don't remember my position about your theory, but as I never liked, to say the least, Briatore, I certainly wasn't among the ones finding you were pushing the boundaries too far (but may be wrong because I remember that a lot of posters were not so reluctant to put the blame on Alonso, whom I never disliked).

That said, The Crashgate® was and remain a big thing because it involved numerous key members of the team, including a driver, son of a champion to boot, willingly ruining his career. For many it's the biggest scandal ever in motor racing. For me, as scandalous as it is, it's not worse than crashing deliberately into your opponent to win a championship, parking your car on the track to stop the qualifications once you get the pole etc. It's just as bad.


I agree it is not the biggest scandal ever. Whenever someone cheats in F1, you are right it is always just as bad. The sticking point in Crashgate was how goddam cheeky they were to think they could get away with it.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:40 pm 
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In a more professional context you have to be careful about making accusations, even if you do turn out to be right in the end. In gambling terms, just because a bet won doesn't necessarily mean it was a good bet in the first place given the available information at the time. In the long run you might still lose.

While you were correct I still don't think there was enough information available to the general public at the time to draw any solid conclusion beyond speculation based upon suspicious circumstances.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:56 pm 
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pendulumeffect wrote:
Harpo wrote:
I remember the thread... I don't remember my position about your theory, but as I never liked, to say the least, Briatore, I certainly wasn't among the ones finding you were pushing the boundaries too far (but may be wrong because I remember that a lot of posters were not so reluctant to put the blame on Alonso, whom I never disliked).

That said, The Crashgate® was and remain a big thing because it involved numerous key members of the team, including a driver, son of a champion to boot, willingly ruining his career. For many it's the biggest scandal ever in motor racing. For me, as scandalous as it is, it's not worse than crashing deliberately into your opponent to win a championship, parking your car on the track to stop the qualifications once you get the pole etc. It's just as bad.


I agree it is not the biggest scandal ever. Whenever someone cheats in F1, you are right it is always just as bad. The sticking point in Crashgate was how goddam cheeky they were to think they could get away with it.


Right. At the moment it could look like a lucky combination of circumstances... May be the "conspiration" theory at the moment seemed too far fetched because it supposed the involvement of too many individuals (though just the year before, we had the McLaren Spygate, that involved a whole team... But it was not a race fixing). It took some time to be considered as a possibility, if not a fact. But what were they thinking of, at Renault, when they fired Piquet Jr the next year ? Without that, the doubts would not have been turned into certainty.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 3:15 pm 
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I remember the topic well.... 'There's something fishy in the paella at Renault....' IIRC. Unfortunately, unless anyone here chose to archive that particular topic (and i'm fairly sure some people did save copies of certain topics) then it's probably lost to the mists of internet past.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:31 pm 
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I wasn't a member of the forum back then. But I remember watching the race at the time and feeling it was all a bit too convenient, I was deeply suspicious of how things played out but didn't honestly believe that anyone would actually do such a thing. I have read though that the other teams suspected foul play immediately after the race concluded, but didn't come forward due to lack of proof. When the truth came out a year later, I wasn't surprised.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 5:32 pm 
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I called crashgate before it even happened and made a thread on how to fix a race that was also flamed. You just need to watch the German grand prix to see what that years SC rules could do. Nelson Piquet went from P16 and close to being lapped to P1 and on for the win, subsequently overtaken and finished P2.

It was pretty obvious at the time what Renault did, there were articles all over the internet and the entire paddock knew exactly what happened (as they have subsequently admitted) the moment Piquet went into the wall as Alonso's strategy made zero sense, they just couldn't say it in public, but everybody knew.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:09 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
I called crashgate before it even happened and made a thread on how to fix a race that was also flamed. You just need to watch the German grand prix to see what that years SC rules could do. Nelson Piquet went from P16 and close to being lapped to P1 and on for the win, subsequently overtaken and finished P2.

It was pretty obvious at the time what Renault did, there were articles all over the internet and the entire paddock knew exactly what happened (as they have subsequently admitted) the moment Piquet went into the wall as Alonso's strategy made zero sense, they just couldn't say it in public, but everybody knew.

I'm fairly certain I remember Brundle commenting on how convenient it was in the race as well, but obviously having the sense not to explicitly accuse them.

As for the thread, I think it is lost. I looked on the Wayback Internet archiver, but it has very little of the forum archived, and nothing of the F1 & Motorsport forum from 2008 - 2010. I do remember the thread through...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:24 pm 
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Johnson wrote:
I called crashgate before it even happened and made a thread on how to fix a race that was also flamed. You just need to watch the German grand prix to see what that years SC rules could do. Nelson Piquet went from P16 and close to being lapped to P1 and on for the win, subsequently overtaken and finished P2.

It was pretty obvious at the time what Renault did, there were articles all over the internet and the entire paddock knew exactly what happened (as they have subsequently admitted) the moment Piquet went into the wall as Alonso's strategy made zero sense, they just couldn't say it in public, but everybody knew.


Are you lamo 8O after Australia last year he made reference to a post he made about how you could fix a race following the 2008 German GP.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 6:54 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Johnson wrote:
I called crashgate before it even happened and made a thread on how to fix a race that was also flamed. You just need to watch the German grand prix to see what that years SC rules could do. Nelson Piquet went from P16 and close to being lapped to P1 and on for the win, subsequently overtaken and finished P2.

It was pretty obvious at the time what Renault did, there were articles all over the internet and the entire paddock knew exactly what happened (as they have subsequently admitted) the moment Piquet went into the wall as Alonso's strategy made zero sense, they just couldn't say it in public, but everybody knew.

I'm fairly certain I remember Brundle commenting on how convenient it was in the race as well, but obviously having the sense not to explicitly accuse them.

As for the thread, I think it is lost. I looked on the Wayback Internet archiver, but it has very little of the forum archived, and nothing of the F1 & Motorsport forum from 2008 - 2010. I do remember the thread through...


Yes, I remember this also, Brundle was on it straight away. I remember the thread, but I can't remember what happened or what my stance was unfortunately


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:07 pm 
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Harpo wrote:
I remember the thread... I don't remember my position about your theory, but as I never liked, to say the least, Briatore, I certainly wasn't among the ones finding you were pushing the boundaries too far (but may be wrong because I remember that a lot of posters were not so reluctant to put the blame on Alonso, whom I never disliked).

That said, The Crashgate® was and remain a big thing because it involved numerous key members of the team, including a driver, son of a champion to boot, willingly ruining his career. For many it's the biggest scandal ever in motor racing. For me, as scandalous as it is, it's not worse than crashing deliberately into your opponent to win a championship, parking your car on the track to stop the qualifications once you get the pole etc. It's just as bad.


I thought Piquet Jr. did it to extend his career, not finish it. And it worked too, as he got a new contract for the next season.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:26 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Harpo wrote:
I remember the thread... I don't remember my position about your theory, but as I never liked, to say the least, Briatore, I certainly wasn't among the ones finding you were pushing the boundaries too far (but may be wrong because I remember that a lot of posters were not so reluctant to put the blame on Alonso, whom I never disliked).

That said, The Crashgate® was and remain a big thing because it involved numerous key members of the team, including a driver, son of a champion to boot, willingly ruining his career. For many it's the biggest scandal ever in motor racing. For me, as scandalous as it is, it's not worse than crashing deliberately into your opponent to win a championship, parking your car on the track to stop the qualifications once you get the pole etc. It's just as bad.


I thought Piquet Jr. did it to extend his career, not finish it. And it worked too, as he got a new contract for the next season.

It only came out when Piquet was fired I think, and he went public.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 6:30 am 
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P-F1 Mod wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Harpo wrote:
I remember the thread... I don't remember my position about your theory, but as I never liked, to say the least, Briatore, I certainly wasn't among the ones finding you were pushing the boundaries too far (but may be wrong because I remember that a lot of posters were not so reluctant to put the blame on Alonso, whom I never disliked).

That said, The Crashgate® was and remain a big thing because it involved numerous key members of the team, including a driver, son of a champion to boot, willingly ruining his career. For many it's the biggest scandal ever in motor racing. For me, as scandalous as it is, it's not worse than crashing deliberately into your opponent to win a championship, parking your car on the track to stop the qualifications once you get the pole etc. It's just as bad.


I thought Piquet Jr. did it to extend his career, not finish it. And it worked too, as he got a new contract for the next season.

It only came out when Piquet was fired I think, and he went public.


I don't remember he got a long F1 career once he willingly spilled the beans...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 11:58 am 
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P-F1 Mod wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Harpo wrote:
I remember the thread... I don't remember my position about your theory, but as I never liked, to say the least, Briatore, I certainly wasn't among the ones finding you were pushing the boundaries too far (but may be wrong because I remember that a lot of posters were not so reluctant to put the blame on Alonso, whom I never disliked).

That said, The Crashgate® was and remain a big thing because it involved numerous key members of the team, including a driver, son of a champion to boot, willingly ruining his career. For many it's the biggest scandal ever in motor racing. For me, as scandalous as it is, it's not worse than crashing deliberately into your opponent to win a championship, parking your car on the track to stop the qualifications once you get the pole etc. It's just as bad.


I thought Piquet Jr. did it to extend his career, not finish it. And it worked too, as he got a new contract for the next season.

It only came out when Piquet was fired I think, and he went public.


Yeah, but Piquet's decision whether to crash or not, was made in 2008 when he was trying to lengthen his career in F1, and his decision worked because he 'earned' himself another year on his contract, (that subsequently only turned into another half season in 2009 as he was so bad).

So Piquet decided to crash to enhance and extend his career, not to ruin it, which goes back to the point I was disputing with the earlier poster who implied Piquet was trying to deliberately ruin his career in 2008 when he decided to be part of the Crashgate plan.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:19 pm 
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I don't remember the thread, but in my mind something seemed too convenient within about 10 seconds of the crash..

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:21 pm 
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Yellowbin74 wrote:
I don't remember the thread, but in my mind something seemed too convenient within about 10 seconds of the crash..


Oh absolutely. I was fairly sure that it was staged too, as was Mark Hughes in his Autosport race report. Many people could see this, but fair play to OP for being so open about it; shame on the flamers back then that didn't have an open enough mind.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:49 pm 
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I remember many years ago starting a thread on how the teams will probably at some point start using traffic lights at the pits instead of the lollipop man and I got flamed and ridiculed for that as well.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:53 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
I remember many years ago starting a thread on how the teams will probably at some point start using traffic lights at the pits instead of the lollipop man and I got flamed and ridiculed for that as well.


Ridiculous idea!!!! (Just joking)


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:16 pm 
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F1 Racer wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Harpo wrote:
I remember the thread... I don't remember my position about your theory, but as I never liked, to say the least, Briatore, I certainly wasn't among the ones finding you were pushing the boundaries too far (but may be wrong because I remember that a lot of posters were not so reluctant to put the blame on Alonso, whom I never disliked).

That said, The Crashgate® was and remain a big thing because it involved numerous key members of the team, including a driver, son of a champion to boot, willingly ruining his career. For many it's the biggest scandal ever in motor racing. For me, as scandalous as it is, it's not worse than crashing deliberately into your opponent to win a championship, parking your car on the track to stop the qualifications once you get the pole etc. It's just as bad.


I thought Piquet Jr. did it to extend his career, not finish it. And it worked too, as he got a new contract for the next season.

It only came out when Piquet was fired I think, and he went public.


Yeah, but Piquet's decision whether to crash or not, was made in 2008 when he was trying to lengthen his career in F1, and his decision worked because he 'earned' himself another year on his contract, (that subsequently only turned into another half season in 2009 as he was so bad).

So Piquet decided to crash to enhance and extend his career, not to ruin it, which goes back to the point I was disputing with the earlier poster who implied Piquet was trying to deliberately ruin his career in 2008 when he decided to be part of the Crashgate plan.


It's Piquet's decision to spill the beans after being fired that turned suspicion into an actual scandal. So yes, he voluntarily ruined his career. First by accepting to be part of the conspiracy, and then by confessing his guilt and naming his accomplices. Is that so hard to understand ?
If I rob banks and then, though not being under investigation, I confess my crime just to harm my former accomplices and spend my best years in jail, would you be arguing that, because my aim was to get rich, I didn't ruin my life, and ruined it knowing I was doing it ?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 11, 2019 2:27 pm 
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Harpo wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
P-F1 Mod wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
Harpo wrote:
I remember the thread... I don't remember my position about your theory, but as I never liked, to say the least, Briatore, I certainly wasn't among the ones finding you were pushing the boundaries too far (but may be wrong because I remember that a lot of posters were not so reluctant to put the blame on Alonso, whom I never disliked).

That said, The Crashgate® was and remain a big thing because it involved numerous key members of the team, including a driver, son of a champion to boot, willingly ruining his career. For many it's the biggest scandal ever in motor racing. For me, as scandalous as it is, it's not worse than crashing deliberately into your opponent to win a championship, parking your car on the track to stop the qualifications once you get the pole etc. It's just as bad.


I thought Piquet Jr. did it to extend his career, not finish it. And it worked too, as he got a new contract for the next season.

It only came out when Piquet was fired I think, and he went public.


Yeah, but Piquet's decision whether to crash or not, was made in 2008 when he was trying to lengthen his career in F1, and his decision worked because he 'earned' himself another year on his contract, (that subsequently only turned into another half season in 2009 as he was so bad).

So Piquet decided to crash to enhance and extend his career, not to ruin it, which goes back to the point I was disputing with the earlier poster who implied Piquet was trying to deliberately ruin his career in 2008 when he decided to be part of the Crashgate plan.


It's Piquet's decision to spill the beans after being fired that turned suspicion into an actual scandal. So yes, he voluntarily ruined his career. First by accepting to be part of the conspiracy, and then by confessing his guilt and naming his accomplices. Is that so hard to understand ?
If I rob banks and then, though not being under investigation, I confess my crime just to harm my former accomplices and spend my best years in jail, would you be arguing that, because my aim was to get rich, I didn't ruin my life, and ruined it knowing I was doing it ?


No, Piquet only came clean after his career already got ruined due to him being slow in 2009. He came clean because he had nothing to lose at this point, his career in F1 was effectively already over after being binned mid-season due to his performances not being up to scratch.

It was Piquet's lack of pace that ruined his career, not Crashgate. Coming clean about Crashgate was merely just to get revenge on those at Renault that were booting him. He figured they then had more to lose than him and so dragged them down with him with his confession.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 5:48 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
Covalent wrote:
I remember many years ago starting a thread on how the teams will probably at some point start using traffic lights at the pits instead of the lollipop man and I got flamed and ridiculed for that as well.


Ridiculous idea!!!! (Just joking)

:lol: :thumbup:

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:59 pm 
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pendulumeffect wrote:
Harpo wrote:
I remember the thread... I don't remember my position about your theory, but as I never liked, to say the least, Briatore, I certainly wasn't among the ones finding you were pushing the boundaries too far (but may be wrong because I remember that a lot of posters were not so reluctant to put the blame on Alonso, whom I never disliked).

That said, The Crashgate® was and remain a big thing because it involved numerous key members of the team, including a driver, son of a champion to boot, willingly ruining his career. For many it's the biggest scandal ever in motor racing. For me, as scandalous as it is, it's not worse than crashing deliberately into your opponent to win a championship, parking your car on the track to stop the qualifications once you get the pole etc. It's just as bad.


I agree it is not the biggest scandal ever. Whenever someone cheats in F1, you are right it is always just as bad. The sticking point in Crashgate was how goddam cheeky they were to think they could get away with it.


If Piquet wasn't so slow in 2009, then they would have got away with it or if they just didn't sack him mid season and accepted him being slow and honoured his contract. They only got caught because Piquet took revenge for being sacked mid season.

So even though everybody knew what they did, they should and could have easily got away with it.

Similarly, spygate never comes to surface if it wasn't for that "snitch" in the photo copy shop and Coughlan wasn't so stupid to take Ferrari documents to a commercial copy shop near to Woking, next to Mclarens factory.... Buy a photocopying for £300... Nearly all cases of cheating in F1 never come out, the only reasons these two cases ever came to light was big human errors.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 4:23 pm 
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Your best bet is to try searching via waybackmachine.com and keep your fingers crossed. I’m sure there are other archival sites out there but to Miley knowledge, over the past 20+ years, wayback has been the beat one that I know of. The challenge is going to be that most if not all the formatting of the site will be gone so it’ll be just a bunch of random text with clickable keywords and possibly links. If you’re lucky however, you might strike oil and you’ll find your thread on an archive that’s in tact, formatting and all.

Good luck!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2019 7:29 am 
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Johnson wrote:
pendulumeffect wrote:
Harpo wrote:
I remember the thread... I don't remember my position about your theory, but as I never liked, to say the least, Briatore, I certainly wasn't among the ones finding you were pushing the boundaries too far (but may be wrong because I remember that a lot of posters were not so reluctant to put the blame on Alonso, whom I never disliked).

That said, The Crashgate® was and remain a big thing because it involved numerous key members of the team, including a driver, son of a champion to boot, willingly ruining his career. For many it's the biggest scandal ever in motor racing. For me, as scandalous as it is, it's not worse than crashing deliberately into your opponent to win a championship, parking your car on the track to stop the qualifications once you get the pole etc. It's just as bad.


I agree it is not the biggest scandal ever. Whenever someone cheats in F1, you are right it is always just as bad. The sticking point in Crashgate was how goddam cheeky they were to think they could get away with it.


If Piquet wasn't so slow in 2009, then they would have got away with it or if they just didn't sack him mid season and accepted him being slow and honoured his contract. They only got caught because Piquet took revenge for being sacked mid season.

So even though everybody knew what they did, they should and could have easily got away with it.

Similarly, spygate never comes to surface if it wasn't for that "snitch" in the photo copy shop and Coughlan wasn't so stupid to take Ferrari documents to a commercial copy shop near to Woking, next to Mclarens factory.... Buy a photocopying for £300... Nearly all cases of cheating in F1 never come out, the only reasons these two cases ever came to light was big human errors.


But it's also possible Piquet holds Renault to ransom and demand a contract renewal. Point is don't even start something u can't fix


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 16, 2019 12:54 pm 
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I was around - but got banned for a while as I clashed with a then Mod who broke the rules - banned all who called him out - and subsequently got banned himself - and have never kept copies of threads regardless - but I remember getting a lot of flack about criticising Benetton / Schumacher / Ferrari in the 90s /00s when they appeared to cheat or push rules way beyond reasonable bounds- but there are fans who apparently don't care and seem to think cheating is ok if their favourite wins - I've never got that - I thought Lance Armstrong was an inspiration until the news of his systematic doping came out - and while I've supported different drivers over the years - I hopefully acknowledge they can make mistakes and certainly I want them to win on merit - not by cheating


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 6:39 am 
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F1Oz wrote:
I was around - but got banned for a while as I clashed with a then Mod who broke the rules - banned all who called him out - and subsequently got banned himself - and have never kept copies of threads regardless - but I remember getting a lot of flack about criticising Benetton / Schumacher / Ferrari in the 90s /00s when they appeared to cheat or push rules way beyond reasonable bounds- but there are fans who apparently don't care and seem to think cheating is ok if their favourite wins - I've never got that - I thought Lance Armstrong was an inspiration until the news of his systematic doping came out - and while I've supported different drivers over the years - I hopefully acknowledge they can make mistakes and certainly I want them to win on merit - not by cheating

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:36 pm 
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F1Oz wrote:
I was around - but got banned for a while as I clashed with a then Mod who broke the rules - banned all who called him out - and subsequently got banned himself - and have never kept copies of threads regardless

Ah ! Once You-Know-Who had bitten the other end of the bone you were chewing, he could keep his teeth sunk in it for days until he had the last bite...

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 12:23 pm 
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Guys, can we keep my predecessor out of the conversation please? We've all fought that battle, but there's nothing to be gained by resurrecting it now. Keep it on topic.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:01 am 
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I wasn't around then, but well done for sticking your head above the parapet! It takes guts to be the first to air your suspicions in that sort of situation. If you're wrong then the plaintiffs can sue. And when they're a rich F1 team I don't think we need to be too afraid of false accusations..


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