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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:13 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
1000th race has fully shown why F1 is not anymore what it was. It has several unofficial categories, it is hard t overtake except on the 1km straight, starts are deciding the outcome. And that's just the top of the hill.

Ferrari obviously has a car problem, it looks so unsettled. Also, since Vettel pulled away from Leclerc, the decision of the team was justified. However, they can kiss the world title goodbye.
Merc looks like glued on the tarmac, not a single wobble. Masters.
Hat's down to Albon, some persistent race and first point after starting from the pit. But, it just shows how to important pit strategy has become.

Vettel hardly pulled away from Leclerc you would expect more over pace than that to justify team orders?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:15 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
1000th race has fully shown why F1 is not anymore what it was. It has several unofficial categories, it is hard t overtake except on the 1km straight, starts are deciding the outcome. And that's just the top of the hill.

Ferrari obviously has a car problem, it looks so unsettled. Also, since Vettel pulled away from Leclerc, the decision of the team was justified. However, they can kiss the world title goodbye.
Merc looks like glued on the tarmac, not a single wobble. Masters.
Hat's down to Albon, some persistent race and first point after starting from the pit. But, it just shows how to important pit strategy has become.

Vettel hardly pulled away from Leclerc you would expect more over pace than that to justify team orders?

Yeah you would, but at the same time it's hard to know exactly how much faster a driver would be when their pace is being compromised before the decision is taken.

Anyone know what the comparative lap times were before and after?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:16 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
1000th race has fully shown why F1 is not anymore what it was. It has several unofficial categories, it is hard t overtake except on the 1km straight, starts are deciding the outcome. And that's just the top of the hill.

Ferrari obviously has a car problem, it looks so unsettled. Also, since Vettel pulled away from Leclerc, the decision of the team was justified. However, they can kiss the world title goodbye.
Merc looks like glued on the tarmac, not a single wobble. Masters.
Hat's down to Albon, some persistent race and first point after starting from the pit. But, it just shows how to important pit strategy has become.

Vettel hardly pulled away from Leclerc you would expect more over pace than that to justify team orders?


I think the point would be Ferrari don't know that until they let Vettel through.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:16 am 
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Leclerc doesn't seem that happy, says a lot for me, also he's just said he was left out to try and slow down the Mercedes cars for Vettel, the Kimi strategy.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:16 am 
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Zoue wrote:
I thought it was Norris. If not then it was Norris and Kvyat who touched first. One of the McLarens, anyway

It was both McLaren cars. Kvyat got overseer and touched his left rear to Sainz' right front, which then bounced Kvyat into Norris who was just in front of Sainz.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:17 am 
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BlackMan wrote:

Given Hamilton's recent slow starts it won't be the case. Bottas 1st and Hamilton 3rd or 4th after the 1st corner. Mark my words.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:18 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
F1Tyrant wrote:
Mercedes have obliterated Hamiton's lead on multiple occasions to help his teammate improve their race. Ultimately, the team orders against Leclerc could have been justified but what happened to the grace period that Kimi had in 2017 and 2018.

I don't see the relevance really. In this particular instance Leclerc was slower and Ferrari clearly didn't want Mercedes getting too far away. Hindsight has meant that Max got between them but that was a possibility anyway and if Leclerc had been quicker it wouldn't have been an issue. Their hand was forced because Red Bull tried an undercut and that nearly worked.

Leclerc was only 1 or 2 tenths slower, perhaps questionable, why did they sign Leclerc to do what Kimi was able to previously?

I suspect that 1 or 2 tenths was only apparent after they changed places. At the time Leclerc was definitely slower and tbh the fastest lap situation described above suggests that Leclerc was simply slower all race anyway. They undoubtedly hoped to be able to take a challenge to Mercedes but Vettel turned out to be not that much quicker after the fact.

I'm struggling to see the controversy here really. I can virtually guarantee that the same people who are moaning about Leclerc having to give up the spot would have been complaining about Ferrari holding Leclerc back had the situations been reversed. The info at the time made the decision reasonable

There's something called racing, no one was asking for Vettel to move out of the way in Bahrain for instance?

So? Ferrari's already explained that one.

Ferrari clearly hoped Vettel would be able to fight the Mercs better than Leclerc did.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:18 am 
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It wasn't the win that Vettel desperately needs but he was faster than Leclerc all weekend. He went wheel to wheel with a rival without spinning which will calm the meme brigade down.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:18 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
1000th race has fully shown why F1 is not anymore what it was. It has several unofficial categories, it is hard t overtake except on the 1km straight, starts are deciding the outcome. And that's just the top of the hill.

Ferrari obviously has a car problem, it looks so unsettled. Also, since Vettel pulled away from Leclerc, the decision of the team was justified. However, they can kiss the world title goodbye.
Merc looks like glued on the tarmac, not a single wobble. Masters.
Hat's down to Albon, some persistent race and first point after starting from the pit. But, it just shows how to important pit strategy has become.

Vettel hardly pulled away from Leclerc you would expect more over pace than that to justify team orders?

Yeah you would, but at the same time it's hard to know exactly how much faster a driver would be when their pace is being compromised before the decision is taken.

Anyone know what the comparative lap times were before and after?

Of course though Vettel would probably imply he could go so much quicker?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:18 am 
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Leclerc confirming his strategy was further compromised by being kept out to block Bottas.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:19 am 
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Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
F1_Ernie wrote:
Could Ferrari not have pit Leclerc to have a go for FL?


Yes they could have, for the 2nd time this season

Oh come on. He had every opportunity. He pitted with some 15 laps to go and was supposed to be on a charge and yet still couldn't beat his team mate's lap time who set his several laps earlier and had to go much longer on his tyres. He should beaten Vettel at least and by doing so would likely have had the point as Gasly only just pipped him by less than a tenth.

Honestly, at what point does the driver shoulder any of the responsibility?


They could have just pitted him at the end tho with nothing to lose, why are you getting defensive?

I think people like to complain for the sake of it. Leclerc had the equipment to get fastest lap and they didn't need to pit him. It's not Ferrari's fault he couldn't do it. The real question should be why didn't Leclerc get it anyway since he had the faster car and at the very least should have beaten Vettel's time


I don't disagree he should have got the F/L at that stage, but why not try again? The point is that they didn't try it, why not just try it?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:19 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
1000th race has fully shown why F1 is not anymore what it was. It has several unofficial categories, it is hard t overtake except on the 1km straight, starts are deciding the outcome. And that's just the top of the hill.

Ferrari obviously has a car problem, it looks so unsettled. Also, since Vettel pulled away from Leclerc, the decision of the team was justified. However, they can kiss the world title goodbye.
Merc looks like glued on the tarmac, not a single wobble. Masters.
Hat's down to Albon, some persistent race and first point after starting from the pit. But, it just shows how to important pit strategy has become.

Vettel hardly pulled away from Leclerc you would expect more over pace than that to justify team orders?

Yeah you would, but at the same time it's hard to know exactly how much faster a driver would be when their pace is being compromised before the decision is taken.

Anyone know what the comparative lap times were before and after?


Leclerc appeared to be a few hunderedths faster according to the graphics on the laps leading up to the swap, though it's still ambiguous wether or not that was because he was holding Vettel up. That Vettel didn't immediately disappear down the road says something though, and that was then compounded by seemingly having Leclerc's race strategy be made up as they went along afterwards. That said, any possible gearbox issue aside, Leclerc wasn't exactly hunting down Verstappen at the end.... pretty underwhelming day all round for the boys in Red.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:20 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I thought it was Norris. If not then it was Norris and Kvyat who touched first. One of the McLarens, anyway

It was both McLaren cars. Kvyat got overseer and touched his left rear to Sainz' right front, which then bounced Kvyat into Norris who was just in front of Sainz.

Yes that's what I thought hence the penalty.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:20 am 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I thought it was Norris. If not then it was Norris and Kvyat who touched first. One of the McLarens, anyway

It was both McLaren cars. Kvyat got overseer and touched his left rear to Sainz' right front, which then bounced Kvyat into Norris who was just in front of Sainz.

Yeah I've just seen the replay again and It was Sainz-Kvyat which was the intial contact, which then collected Norris. Sainz even tried to brake to get out of the sandwich but Kvyat left him nowhere to go. From that angle it does look like Kvyat's fault


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:21 am 
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We joked but leclerc genuinely got put on the Kimi strategy


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:22 am 
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Three 1-2s in a row. Mercedes' most dominant start to a season ever

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:23 am 
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FormulaFun wrote:
We joked but leclerc genuinely got put on the Kimi strategy

I wasn't joking. :)

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:23 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
1000th race has fully shown why F1 is not anymore what it was. It has several unofficial categories, it is hard t overtake except on the 1km straight, starts are deciding the outcome. And that's just the top of the hill.

Ferrari obviously has a car problem, it looks so unsettled. Also, since Vettel pulled away from Leclerc, the decision of the team was justified. However, they can kiss the world title goodbye.
Merc looks like glued on the tarmac, not a single wobble. Masters.
Hat's down to Albon, some persistent race and first point after starting from the pit. But, it just shows how to important pit strategy has become.

Vettel hardly pulled away from Leclerc you would expect more over pace than that to justify team orders?

Yeah you would, but at the same time it's hard to know exactly how much faster a driver would be when their pace is being compromised before the decision is taken.

Anyone know what the comparative lap times were before and after?

Of course though Vettel would probably imply he could go so much quicker?

Of course he would. What's he going to say? I'm too slow don't let me by?!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:24 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I thought it was Norris. If not then it was Norris and Kvyat who touched first. One of the McLarens, anyway

It was both McLaren cars. Kvyat got overseer and touched his left rear to Sainz' right front, which then bounced Kvyat into Norris who was just in front of Sainz.

Yes that's what I thought hence the penalty.

er, if that's what you thought why did you question when I said Kvyat and Sainz touched first? :?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:24 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
1000th race has fully shown why F1 is not anymore what it was. It has several unofficial categories, it is hard t overtake except on the 1km straight, starts are deciding the outcome. And that's just the top of the hill.

Ferrari obviously has a car problem, it looks so unsettled. Also, since Vettel pulled away from Leclerc, the decision of the team was justified. However, they can kiss the world title goodbye.
Merc looks like glued on the tarmac, not a single wobble. Masters.
Hat's down to Albon, some persistent race and first point after starting from the pit. But, it just shows how to important pit strategy has become.

Vettel hardly pulled away from Leclerc you would expect more over pace than that to justify team orders?

Yeah you would, but at the same time it's hard to know exactly how much faster a driver would be when their pace is being compromised before the decision is taken.

Anyone know what the comparative lap times were before and after?

Of course though Vettel would probably imply he could go so much quicker?

Of course he would. What's he going to say? I'm too slow don't let me by?!

1 or 2 tenths doesn't justify it.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:24 am 
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It ended up being an easy day for Lewis. Rocket start and then he was really never troubled at all. Mercedes clearly had the stronger package on the weekend and I think they just have their act together much more than Ferrari. Bottas is performing at a level where any thought of replacing him with Ocon will be chucked out the window. Why replace him? He's perfect for them.

Ferrari are starting to look like a mess again. Hindsight is 20/20 but them moving Leclerc out of Vettel's way and then sitting on their hands while Red Bull tried the undercut was embarrassing. Honestly, how did they not anticipate that and pit Leclerc first once it became obvious that Vettel was no faster than him? They seemed to alternate between indecision and poor decision throughout the course of the race. Charles should be livid IMO. That's two races out of three where they have simply handed Vettel an advantage over him. In the last race; he blew by Vettel and was on for a win for most of the gp. Ferrari need to just back off and let them race at this point. They are not capable of managing this situation with team orders and they are bound to make even more of a mess of things. Let the kid race.

Good quiet day from Daniel. He needed a day like today. Also Kimi has my vote for best of the rest so far. He has been quick and consistent in that midfield scrap. Alex Albon is the second best Red Bull driver IMO. I'd look for him to replace Gasly at Red Bull in 2020 if things continue like this. he makes some mistakes but he's quick and racy. I think his potential in F1 is actually fairly high.


Last edited by sandman1347 on Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:27 am, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:25 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Vettel hardly pulled away from Leclerc you would expect more over pace than that to justify team orders?

Yeah you would, but at the same time it's hard to know exactly how much faster a driver would be when their pace is being compromised before the decision is taken.

Anyone know what the comparative lap times were before and after?

Of course though Vettel would probably imply he could go so much quicker?

Of course he would. What's he going to say? I'm too slow don't let me by?!

1 or 2 tenths doesn't justify it.

Relevance to discussion?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:26 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I thought it was Norris. If not then it was Norris and Kvyat who touched first. One of the McLarens, anyway

It was both McLaren cars. Kvyat got overseer and touched his left rear to Sainz' right front, which then bounced Kvyat into Norris who was just in front of Sainz.

Yes that's what I thought hence the penalty.

er, if that's what you thought why did you question when I said Kvyat and Sainz touched first? :?

It was implied that Sainz hit Kvyat, it was the other way around.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:30 am 
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Nice job by perez, jumped four cars at the start and stayed there.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:31 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
It ended up being an easy day for Lewis. Rocket start and then he was really never troubled at all. Mercedes clearly had the stronger package on the weekend and I think they just have their act together much more than Ferrari. Bottas is performing at a level where any thought of replacing him with Ocon will be chucked out the window. Why replace him? He's perfect for them.

Ferrari are starting to look like a mess again. Hindsight is 20/20 but them moving Leclerc out of Vettel's way and then sitting on their hands while Red Bull tried the undercut was embarrassing. Honestly, how did they not anticipate that and pit Leclerc first once it became obvious that Vettel was no faster than him? They seemed to alternate between indecision and poor decision throughout the course of the race. Charles should be livid IMO. That's two races out of three where they have simply handed Vettel an advantage over him. In the other race; he blew by Vettel and was on for a win for most fo the gp. Ferrari need to just back off and let them race at this point. They are not capable of managing this situation with team orders and they are bound to make even more of a mess of things. Let the kid race.

Good quiet day from Daniel. He needed a day like today. Also Kimi has my vote for best of the rest so far. He has been quick and consistent in that midfield scrap. Alex Albon is the second best Red Bull driver IMO. I'd look for him to replace Gasly at Red Bull in 2020 if things continue like this. he makes some mistakes but he's quick and racy. I think his potential in F1 is actually fairly high.

When Vettel pitted in response to Max he almost lost the place and had to fight hard to keep it. If Leclerc had pitted first he would have lost the place and then so would Vettel the lap after. That strategy makes no sense.

Ultimately, Vettel was faster than Leclerc this weekend, which effectively justifies their decision. Having said that, keeping Leclerc out as a moving chicane to try and block Bottas after that did compromise his race vs Verstappen and that I think Leclerc could feel aggrieved at. He lost a possible 4th place, but there again could have mitigated that a little by chasing fastest lao when he had so much fresher tyres. I think both team and driver need to reflect tbh


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:31 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Yeah you would, but at the same time it's hard to know exactly how much faster a driver would be when their pace is being compromised before the decision is taken.

Anyone know what the comparative lap times were before and after?

Of course though Vettel would probably imply he could go so much quicker?

Of course he would. What's he going to say? I'm too slow don't let me by?!

1 or 2 tenths doesn't justify it.

Relevance to discussion?

He wasn't going to catch the Mercs at that pace so it was basically giving Vettel the podium in respect to Leclerc, of course Vettel will always imply he could go so much faster?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:32 am 
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Lol Verstappen 3rd in the standings.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:32 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
I thought it was Norris. If not then it was Norris and Kvyat who touched first. One of the McLarens, anyway

It was both McLaren cars. Kvyat got overseer and touched his left rear to Sainz' right front, which then bounced Kvyat into Norris who was just in front of Sainz.

Yes that's what I thought hence the penalty.

er, if that's what you thought why did you question when I said Kvyat and Sainz touched first? :?

It was implied that Sainz hit Kvyat, it was the other way around.

Sainz I think, although it was arguable that Kvyat drifted into him.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:34 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
It was both McLaren cars. Kvyat got overseer and touched his left rear to Sainz' right front, which then bounced Kvyat into Norris who was just in front of Sainz.

Yes that's what I thought hence the penalty.

er, if that's what you thought why did you question when I said Kvyat and Sainz touched first? :?

It was implied that Sainz hit Kvyat, it was the other way around.

Sainz I think, although it was arguable that Kvyat drifted into him.

Kvyat hit both McLarens, hence the penalty.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:34 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Of course though Vettel would probably imply he could go so much quicker?

Of course he would. What's he going to say? I'm too slow don't let me by?!

1 or 2 tenths doesn't justify it.

Relevance to discussion?

He wasn't going to catch the Mercs at that pace so it was basically giving Vettel the podium in respect to Leclerc, of course Vettel will always imply he could go so much faster?

And the pace was only confirmed after he passed Leclerc. You're applying hindsight to a decision but based on the facts at the time Vettel was faster. How much faster is always going to be an estimate


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:36 am 
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pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Yes that's what I thought hence the penalty.

er, if that's what you thought why did you question when I said Kvyat and Sainz touched first? :?

It was implied that Sainz hit Kvyat, it was the other way around.

Sainz I think, although it was arguable that Kvyat drifted into him.

Kvyat hit both McLarens, hence the penalty.

You asked who hit who first, not what happened after!

I give up. Discussions with you are surreal sometimes


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:45 am 
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Onboard video from Kvyat's car that transpired McLaren mess!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:47 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
1000th race has fully shown why F1 is not anymore what it was. It has several unofficial categories, it is hard t overtake except on the 1km straight, starts are deciding the outcome. And that's just the top of the hill.

Ferrari obviously has a car problem, it looks so unsettled. Also, since Vettel pulled away from Leclerc, the decision of the team was justified. However, they can kiss the world title goodbye.
Merc looks like glued on the tarmac, not a single wobble. Masters.
Hat's down to Albon, some persistent race and first point after starting from the pit. But, it just shows how to important pit strategy has become.


Rose tinted glasses,there were probably more overtakes for podium positions in the last race than the entire 2006,2007 and 2008 seasons combined.

All of the bolded part has been true for about 15 years, baring a few early DRS seasons.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:48 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Leclerc confirming his strategy was further compromised by being kept out to block Bottas.


I get the feeling that this is a "senior driver respect" policy by Ferrari, they seem to be giving Vettel every chance to prove he is significantly faster, he problem for SV is that unless he starts showing that soon they will go with Leclerc, the problem is that its hard to filter out who is quicker when Ferrari keep making mistakes in the pit lane. Ferrari lost a point because they let Gasly take fastest lap from SV when the could have let Leclerc go for it when it was clear he wasn't going to catch MV.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:03 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Leclerc confirming his strategy was further compromised by being kept out to block Bottas.


I get the feeling that this is a "senior driver respect" policy by Ferrari, they seem to be giving Vettel every chance to prove he is significantly faster, he problem for SV is that unless he starts showing that soon they will go with Leclerc, the problem is that its hard to filter out who is quicker when Ferrari keep making mistakes in the pit lane. Ferrari lost a point because they let Gasly take fastest lap from SV when the could have let Leclerc go for it when it was clear he wasn't going to catch MV.


They are not going to go with Leclerc unless he is consistently and definitely faster than Vettel. This race Vettel was slightly faster. Every time that is the case or when they are even we should expect Ferrari to back Vettel.

In fairness to Leclerc he was compromised this race by not having any meaningful running in FP2. Let's see how he does next race.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:05 am 
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Option or Prime wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Leclerc confirming his strategy was further compromised by being kept out to block Bottas.


I get the feeling that this is a "senior driver respect" policy by Ferrari, they seem to be giving Vettel every chance to prove he is significantly faster, he problem for SV is that unless he starts showing that soon they will go with Leclerc, the problem is that its hard to filter out who is quicker when Ferrari keep making mistakes in the pit lane. Ferrari lost a point because they let Gasly take fastest lap from SV when the could have let Leclerc go for it when it was clear he wasn't going to catch MV.


but what has vettel done recently to deserve no1 apart from show he is fallible under pressure. ferrari say its team before self yet they have just lost team points in their desperation to get vettel ahead.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:07 am 
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Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
It ended up being an easy day for Lewis. Rocket start and then he was really never troubled at all. Mercedes clearly had the stronger package on the weekend and I think they just have their act together much more than Ferrari. Bottas is performing at a level where any thought of replacing him with Ocon will be chucked out the window. Why replace him? He's perfect for them.

Ferrari are starting to look like a mess again. Hindsight is 20/20 but them moving Leclerc out of Vettel's way and then sitting on their hands while Red Bull tried the undercut was embarrassing. Honestly, how did they not anticipate that and pit Leclerc first once it became obvious that Vettel was no faster than him? They seemed to alternate between indecision and poor decision throughout the course of the race. Charles should be livid IMO. That's two races out of three where they have simply handed Vettel an advantage over him. In the other race; he blew by Vettel and was on for a win for most fo the gp. Ferrari need to just back off and let them race at this point. They are not capable of managing this situation with team orders and they are bound to make even more of a mess of things. Let the kid race.

Good quiet day from Daniel. He needed a day like today. Also Kimi has my vote for best of the rest so far. He has been quick and consistent in that midfield scrap. Alex Albon is the second best Red Bull driver IMO. I'd look for him to replace Gasly at Red Bull in 2020 if things continue like this. he makes some mistakes but he's quick and racy. I think his potential in F1 is actually fairly high.

When Vettel pitted in response to Max he almost lost the place and had to fight hard to keep it. If Leclerc had pitted first he would have lost the place and then so would Vettel the lap after. That strategy makes no sense.

Ultimately, Vettel was faster than Leclerc this weekend, which effectively justifies their decision. Having said that, keeping Leclerc out as a moving chicane to try and block Bottas after that did compromise his race vs Verstappen and that I think Leclerc could feel aggrieved at. He lost a possible 4th place, but there again could have mitigated that a little by chasing fastest lao when he had so much fresher tyres. I think both team and driver need to reflect tbh


He means Leclerc pitting before max, I.e. Ferrari being proactive instead of reactive.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:11 am 
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Zoue wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Lt. Drebin wrote:
1000th race has fully shown why F1 is not anymore what it was. It has several unofficial categories, it is hard t overtake except on the 1km straight, starts are deciding the outcome. And that's just the top of the hill.

Ferrari obviously has a car problem, it looks so unsettled. Also, since Vettel pulled away from Leclerc, the decision of the team was justified. However, they can kiss the world title goodbye.
Merc looks like glued on the tarmac, not a single wobble. Masters.
Hat's down to Albon, some persistent race and first point after starting from the pit. But, it just shows how to important pit strategy has become.

Vettel hardly pulled away from Leclerc you would expect more over pace than that to justify team orders?

Yeah you would, but at the same time it's hard to know exactly how much faster a driver would be when their pace is being compromised before the decision is taken.

Anyone know what the comparative lap times were before and after?


Vettel was continuously locking up his fronts under braking while in Lerclerc's wake, and it continued after the switch. Highly probable that his tyres were already worse for wear - likely worse than Leclerc's - by the time the switch happened.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition:
- 5 victories (Mexico '18, Singapore '18, USA '17, USA '16, Mexico '16),
- 6 podiums
- 2013 Rookie of the Year
- 2014 Championship 6th position
- 2016 Championship 9th position


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:13 am 
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Zoue wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
It ended up being an easy day for Lewis. Rocket start and then he was really never troubled at all. Mercedes clearly had the stronger package on the weekend and I think they just have their act together much more than Ferrari. Bottas is performing at a level where any thought of replacing him with Ocon will be chucked out the window. Why replace him? He's perfect for them.

Ferrari are starting to look like a mess again. Hindsight is 20/20 but them moving Leclerc out of Vettel's way and then sitting on their hands while Red Bull tried the undercut was embarrassing. Honestly, how did they not anticipate that and pit Leclerc first once it became obvious that Vettel was no faster than him? They seemed to alternate between indecision and poor decision throughout the course of the race. Charles should be livid IMO. That's two races out of three where they have simply handed Vettel an advantage over him. In the other race; he blew by Vettel and was on for a win for most fo the gp. Ferrari need to just back off and let them race at this point. They are not capable of managing this situation with team orders and they are bound to make even more of a mess of things. Let the kid race.

Good quiet day from Daniel. He needed a day like today. Also Kimi has my vote for best of the rest so far. He has been quick and consistent in that midfield scrap. Alex Albon is the second best Red Bull driver IMO. I'd look for him to replace Gasly at Red Bull in 2020 if things continue like this. he makes some mistakes but he's quick and racy. I think his potential in F1 is actually fairly high.

When Vettel pitted in response to Max he almost lost the place and had to fight hard to keep it. If Leclerc had pitted first he would have lost the place and then so would Vettel the lap after. That strategy makes no sense.

Ultimately, Vettel was faster than Leclerc this weekend, which effectively justifies their decision. Having said that, keeping Leclerc out as a moving chicane to try and block Bottas after that did compromise his race vs Verstappen and that I think Leclerc could feel aggrieved at. He lost a possible 4th place, but there again could have mitigated that a little by chasing fastest lao when he had so much fresher tyres. I think both team and driver need to reflect tbh

By "first" I meant before Red Bull. So long as they were in a position of reacting they were always going to end up losing a position. Having swapped them on track and then seen that Vettel wasn't going any faster than Charles; they should have given Charles pit stop preference and looked to pit him FIRST; not as a reaction from someone else trying the undercut. Considering the fact that it was a two-stopper with the hard tires for the second stint; there was no reason to try to draw out the stint any further.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:15 am 
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Caserole of Nonsense wrote:
Option or Prime wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Leclerc confirming his strategy was further compromised by being kept out to block Bottas.


I get the feeling that this is a "senior driver respect" policy by Ferrari, they seem to be giving Vettel every chance to prove he is significantly faster, he problem for SV is that unless he starts showing that soon they will go with Leclerc, the problem is that its hard to filter out who is quicker when Ferrari keep making mistakes in the pit lane. Ferrari lost a point because they let Gasly take fastest lap from SV when the could have let Leclerc go for it when it was clear he wasn't going to catch MV.


but what has vettel done recently to deserve no1 apart from show he is fallible under pressure. ferrari say its team before self yet they have just lost team points in their desperation to get vettel ahead.


They have clearly taken the view that Vettel is the most likely to deliver Ferrari a drivers title. Time will tell if that is the right decision.

There may be an element of overcompensating for 2018 too. The reluctance and sometimes outright refusal to give Seb preference compromised the team in Germany and certainly Italy.

They made the correct decision this race, but trying to use Leclerc to block Bottas when there was no likelihood of Vettel catching the Finn was dumb though. Especially on a track with an easy DRS pass available.


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