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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:48 am 
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Not seeing much of Ferrari's vaunted straight line speed here today. Looks like they are maybe having to turn things down?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:49 am 
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Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Ferrari have really compromised their race more than I think they realise by swapping the cars to appease vettel. They're now in a battle with verstappen

How? Leclerc appears to be dropping back a bit and is 1.6s behind now. How has it compromised Ferrari's race?


Well, they have now, by pitting Vettel first they really have sacrificed Leclerc. I would be surprised if he is so willing to play the team game again.

well the other way around would have sacrificed Vettel. The claim was that Ferrari have been compromised but either way Ferrari looked vulnerable with one car


Not necessarily. The switch over cost Leclerc over two seconds. I was in support of Ferrari changing the drivers over at the time but can't help feel sorry for Leclerc.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:49 am 
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FormulaFun wrote:
Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Ferrari have really compromised their race more than I think they realise by swapping the cars to appease vettel. They're now in a battle with verstappen

How? Leclerc appears to be dropping back a bit and is 1.6s behind now. How has it compromised Ferrari's race?


The lead Ferrari effectively dropped back about 3 seconds on track so he will 100% come out behind, they've literally had to sacrifice his race now

Compromise Leclerc, sure. How does it compromise Ferrari? Given their relative pace one was always going to be at risk


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:52 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Ferrari have really compromised their race more than I think they realise by swapping the cars to appease vettel. They're now in a battle with verstappen

How? Leclerc appears to be dropping back a bit and is 1.6s behind now. How has it compromised Ferrari's race?


Well, they have now, by pitting Vettel first they really have sacrificed Leclerc. I would be surprised if he is so willing to play the team game again.

well the other way around would have sacrificed Vettel. The claim was that Ferrari have been compromised but either way Ferrari looked vulnerable with one car


Not necessarily. The switch over cost Leclerc over two seconds. I was in support of Ferrari changing the drivers over at the time but can't help feel sorry for Leclerc.

I also feel sorry for Leclerc, don't get me wrong. But OTOH at the time he looked like he was holding Vettel up so it wasn't exactly a crazy call. Vettel ended up pulling away from him in a way Leclerc hadn't done with Vettel, so I'm not sure that it was a bad call at all. It did look like Leclerc was slower and in the meantime the Mercs were disappearing into the distance


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:53 am 
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Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Ferrari have really compromised their race more than I think they realise by swapping the cars to appease vettel. They're now in a battle with verstappen

How? Leclerc appears to be dropping back a bit and is 1.6s behind now. How has it compromised Ferrari's race?


The lead Ferrari effectively dropped back about 3 seconds on track so he will 100% come out behind, they've literally had to sacrifice his race now

Compromise Leclerc, sure. How does it compromise Ferrari? Given their relative pace one was always going to be at risk


Had the switch not happened he would've been further up the road and Vettel would be in the same place roughly. Then you have enough of a gap to Verstappen, can pit Vettel first, Leclerc second and have a much greater chance to hold position.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:53 am 
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If they can Ferrari should swap the cars back at the end of the race.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:55 am 
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Hmm so it looks like live timing has now moved behind a paywall this week. That blows :frown:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 6:55 am 
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Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Ferrari have really compromised their race more than I think they realise by swapping the cars to appease vettel. They're now in a battle with verstappen

How? Leclerc appears to be dropping back a bit and is 1.6s behind now. How has it compromised Ferrari's race?


The lead Ferrari effectively dropped back about 3 seconds on track so he will 100% come out behind, they've literally had to sacrifice his race now

Compromise Leclerc, sure. How does it compromise Ferrari? Given their relative pace one was always going to be at risk


I need to see lap times of before and after the swap as I could be wrong but it seems to me like vettel would have basically been at the same point on the track without the swap, the only difference was that leclerc was 3 seconds behind where he would have been.

Plus they've pointlessly annoyed their new young driver


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:00 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Ferrari have really compromised their race more than I think they realise by swapping the cars to appease vettel. They're now in a battle with verstappen

How? Leclerc appears to be dropping back a bit and is 1.6s behind now. How has it compromised Ferrari's race?


The lead Ferrari effectively dropped back about 3 seconds on track so he will 100% come out behind, they've literally had to sacrifice his race now

Compromise Leclerc, sure. How does it compromise Ferrari? Given their relative pace one was always going to be at risk


Had the switch not happened he would've been further up the road and Vettel would be in the same place roughly. Then you have enough of a gap to Verstappen, can pit Vettel first, Leclerc second and have a much greater chance to hold position.

I think to be fair they probably hoped both Ferraris would be quicker than they were. Vettel was constantly in DRS range, while Leclerc wasn't, so clearly Leclerc was the slower of the two. But not that much slower, it turns out, as Vettel wasn't exactly disappearing when he got by. With hindsight they didn't gain that much, but at the time they were probably looking more towards the Mercs than at the Red Bull behind. I think with the information they had at the time it was the right call


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:02 am 
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Vettel is rattled, why are Ferrari bending over backwards to massage his ego? 2/3 races have seen team orders used against Leclerc. It's going to get him down despite him looking the quicker of the two over three races.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:02 am 
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FormulaFun wrote:
Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Ferrari have really compromised their race more than I think they realise by swapping the cars to appease vettel. They're now in a battle with verstappen

How? Leclerc appears to be dropping back a bit and is 1.6s behind now. How has it compromised Ferrari's race?


The lead Ferrari effectively dropped back about 3 seconds on track so he will 100% come out behind, they've literally had to sacrifice his race now

Compromise Leclerc, sure. How does it compromise Ferrari? Given their relative pace one was always going to be at risk


I need to see lap times of before and after the swap as I could be wrong but it seems to me like vettel would have basically been at the same point on the track without the swap, the only difference was that leclerc was 3 seconds behind where he would have been.

Plus they've pointlessly annoyed their new young driver

Their new young driver will get over it. Perhaps he should ask himself why he wasn't able to shake his team mate.

Taking emotion out of it, Leclerc was slower at the time and the Mercs were getting away. What happened after that doesn't change that


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:02 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Not seeing much of Ferrari's vaunted straight line speed here today. Looks like they are maybe having to turn things down?


I definitely think they are having to turn something down due to cooling.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:04 am 
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Gotta feel for Leclerc.
He was rightfully ahead of Vettel in both the championship and the race, must have felt he's out there wasting his time when he was told to move over.

Contrast that to Mercedes who cost Lewis half of his lead to ensure Bottas is treated more than fairly.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:08 am 
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Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Ferrari have really compromised their race more than I think they realise by swapping the cars to appease vettel. They're now in a battle with verstappen



The lead Ferrari effectively dropped back about 3 seconds on track so he will 100% come out behind, they've literally had to sacrifice his race now

Compromise Leclerc, sure. How does it compromise Ferrari? Given their relative pace one was always going to be at risk


I need to see lap times of before and after the swap as I could be wrong but it seems to me like vettel would have basically been at the same point on the track without the swap, the only difference was that leclerc was 3 seconds behind where he would have been.

Plus they've pointlessly annoyed their new young driver

Their new young driver will get over it. Perhaps he should ask himself why he wasn't able to shake his team mate.

Taking emotion out of it, Leclerc was slower at the time and the Mercs were getting away. What happened after that doesn't change that


That's a little bit weird... he was clearly managing his race, they gave him about half a lap to push and get away from vettel and then as he was actually pulling away slightly he had to put the brakes on down the pit straight

I can understand why the swapped them I never said I didn't I just said that i felt it compromised their race as a whole against verstappen which you contended?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:09 am 
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Ferrari said they were going to back Vettel, they are doing just that. The people who thought Leclerc could challenge for the WDC this year should wake up. Not going to happen this year.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:10 am 
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Nice to see a replay of kvyat effectively getting a penalty for getting hit in the rear of his car


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:12 am 
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kleefton wrote:
Ferrari said they were going to back Vettel, they are doing just that. The people who thought Leclerc could challenge for the WDC this year should wake up. Not going to happen this year.


Why? So far Leclerc has shown he can challenge.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:14 am 
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FormulaFun wrote:
Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:
Zoue wrote:
FormulaFun wrote:

The lead Ferrari effectively dropped back about 3 seconds on track so he will 100% come out behind, they've literally had to sacrifice his race now

Compromise Leclerc, sure. How does it compromise Ferrari? Given their relative pace one was always going to be at risk


I need to see lap times of before and after the swap as I could be wrong but it seems to me like vettel would have basically been at the same point on the track without the swap, the only difference was that leclerc was 3 seconds behind where he would have been.

Plus they've pointlessly annoyed their new young driver

Their new young driver will get over it. Perhaps he should ask himself why he wasn't able to shake his team mate.

Taking emotion out of it, Leclerc was slower at the time and the Mercs were getting away. What happened after that doesn't change that


That's a little bit weird... he was clearly managing his race, they gave him about half a lap to push and get away from vettel and then as he was actually pulling away slightly he had to put the brakes on down the pit straight

I can understand why the swapped them I never said I didn't I just said that i felt it compromised their race as a whole against verstappen which you contended?

Maybe they did, I can't see the timings but I'm surprised at the 2s figures being quoted. Vettel was right on Leclerc's tail so that doesn't sound right. Point is that's only with hindsight as at the time Leclerc was definitely holding Vettel up


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:14 am 
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F1_Ernie wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Ferrari said they were going to back Vettel, they are doing just that. The people who thought Leclerc could challenge for the WDC this year should wake up. Not going to happen this year.


Why? So far Leclerc has shown he can challenge.


It's the Ferrari way. Always has been always will be.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:15 am 
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Does Leclerc have to pit again? He is on the hards.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:16 am 
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Unbelievable double stack by Mercedes.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:19 am 
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Tassadar wrote:
Does Leclerc have to pit again? He is on the hards.

It's an interesting point. Maybe he'll stay out as he's 15s ahead of Max. Not sure what their relative pace is though


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:19 am 
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The Kimi strategy coming into play.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:20 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Maybe they did, I can't see the timings but I'm surprised at the 2s figures being quoted. Vettel was right on Leclerc's tail so that doesn't sound right. Point is that's only with hindsight as at the time Leclerc was definitely holding Vettel up


Leclerc went from 0.8 in front to 1.2 behind in half a lap.

I don't get what Ferrari have been doing with Leclerc's strategy today.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:20 am 
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They've forgotten they have 2 drivers in China again


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:21 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Tassadar wrote:
Does Leclerc have to pit again? He is on the hards.

It's an interesting point. Maybe he'll stay out as he's 15s ahead of Max. Not sure what their relative pace is though

ah, it seems the difference is moire than 1.5s a lap so might be a big ask


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:24 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Maybe they did, I can't see the timings but I'm surprised at the 2s figures being quoted. Vettel was right on Leclerc's tail so that doesn't sound right. Point is that's only with hindsight as at the time Leclerc was definitely holding Vettel up


Leclerc went from 0.8 in front to 1.2 behind in half a lap.

I don't get what Ferrari have been doing with Leclerc's strategy today.

Yeah but what was the gap to Verstappen before and after? Of course there'll be a big swing in an overtake.

I thought they might have been trying to cling onto a one-stopper but as I write this he's coming in. Not sure I get that as I can't see him getting 2s a lap on Max now


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:25 am 
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Lol leclerc has to catch verstappen at over a second a lap now, great Ferrari strategy

If they'd had just pitted him a lap after vettel he probably could have re-oveetaken verstappen. It's so stupid


Last edited by FormulaFun on Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:25 am 
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Seriously, what is this strategy for Leclerc?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:26 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Seriously, what is this strategy for Leclerc?

To ensure he finishes behind Vettel. It feels like an exercise in putting the upstart in his place.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:27 am 
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Kimi's all over the back of Perez. Will he grab 8th?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:27 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Seriously, what is this strategy for Leclerc?


The Kimi strategy


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:27 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Seriously, what is this strategy for Leclerc?


The we forgot about you Kimi strategy


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:28 am 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Seriously, what is this strategy for Leclerc?

To ensure he finishes behind Vettel. It feels like an exercise in putting the upstart in his place.

:lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:29 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Seriously, what is this strategy for Leclerc?

So Leclerc is lapping 2s a lap faster than Max. It seems they are hoping for a mad sprint finish to snag 4th


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:30 am 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Seriously, what is this strategy for Leclerc?

To ensure he finishes behind Vettel. It feels like an exercise in putting the upstart in his place.


Ferrari doesn't exist to make Vettel WDC.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:30 am 
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Zoue wrote:
:lol:

You laugh, but he's finished exactly where Kimi or Massa would have finished relative to Vettel or Alonso. This season could well shape up as a 2007 if Hamilton has been controlled with team orders since the first race. We'll see.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:32 am 
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Utter snoozefest to celebrate the 1000th race


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:33 am 
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F1Tyrant wrote:
Zoue wrote:
:lol:

You laugh, but he's finished exactly where Kimi or Massa would have finished relative to Vettel or Alonso. This season could well shape up as a 2007 if Hamilton has been controlled with team orders since the first race. We'll see.

I'm laughing because I think it's hilarious that a team would willingly sabotage one driver's race just to make another feel better. Leclerc was slower at that point of the race and they must have felt they were losing too much time


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:34 am 
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Leclerc not making enough inroads anymore. I think 5th is all he can hope for now

edit: and Vettel has the fastest lap so far despite Leclerc being on the mad dash strategy. So it doesn't look like he's quicker


Last edited by Zoue on Sun Apr 14, 2019 7:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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