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Should China (or US) be permitted a Second GP?
Yes, let's race year round. 12%  12%  [ 2 ]
No, Let's spread the pain around. 88%  88%  [ 15 ]
Total votes : 17
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 6:00 pm 
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ESPN reports that the F1 Overlords want a second race in China, a street race. http://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/265 ... race-china

When the sport was a European game, a couple countries were permitted a second race. Is it now time to return to that practice?

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:27 pm 
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I don't really have an issue with a country having a second GP providing the second track can give good racing. In the case of a street race, if it's going to be a Valencia, then hell no. If it's going to be a Baku then absolutely.


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:37 pm 
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Ultimately, I think no. The concept of the World Championship at present is that it's composed of a single Grand Prix from a variety of countries, not multiple ones from a few particularly important countries. While I think a nation as huge as the USA or China could certainly support more than one, I don't like the idea.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:56 pm 
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Just because a country is big enough doesn't mean it should have multiple races. At one time, the US hosted 3 GPs in a year, and I don't think it ended well. The city circuits in the Las Vegas parking lot, and here in Dallas were abysmal failures.

Last I read, a street race in New York City area was proposed. IMO, a waste of resources, just to chase the buck from people who couldn't care less about F1.

The Circuit of The Americas is a first rate facility, something the US hasn't had since the old Watkins Glen (which no longer measures up). Centrally located, and dedicated F1 fans will travel once a year to it, no problem. It would be a real challenge for anyone to provide better racing in the states. And splitting the (limited) US fanbase to chase two races just means less success for each. For the moment, COTA is THE F1 race in America. Let's keep it that way.

Shanghai is a good F1 circuit, and I can't see any value add with a second Chinese race on city streets.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:59 pm 
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I don't have a problem with multiple races in one country. They used ti have a European Grand Prix which rotated and I don't think it devalued anything. If it's a good circuit why not?


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PostPosted: Thu Apr 18, 2019 9:31 pm 
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We recently lost Malaysia, Korea and India were short lived. Presently that leaves us with just Japan, Singapore and China on the calendar for East Asia - and Australia for the overall timezone.

Japan is always well attended with great fans. Singapore has become a signature track on the calendar. China is most successful "standard track" added this century, in terms of the racing and attendance. However - it's important to remember it was a slow burn to build up that interest.

We are getting a race in Vietnam - although I am skeptical of the longevity of it. Vietnam is still a developing country whereas China, Singapore and japan have a lot of money behind them. Despite South Korea being wealthy, it failed there because it was in a bad location, and was the vanity project of a local politician.

Ideally it would be great to have races in as many different countries as possible - but most of Asia is still comprised of developing countries, despite there being a lot of money out there. So realistically, only Japan, Korea and China have the money to invest in a long term project.

Japan used to have a second race - the Pacific Grand Prix, although it may have only been for one season - and the USA has regularly had 2 or 3 in the 1980s, so it's not a novel thing for a non European nation to have multiple races. China is the most populated country, with the largest car market and the second largest economy. However, it will eventually become the largest economy as its middle class grows. Regardless of what is 'fair' - this is where the sponsors and manufacturers will want to be seen, and unlike Europe and North America, there is a government in place that is happy to steamroller large projects through.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2019 12:39 am 
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I'd rather that no country get a second Grand Prix, really. There are still plenty of countries out there which could host another round, and this 'second Grand Prix' often seems to be conceptualised as a street race, which I think there are already well enough of.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:23 am 
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From a purely time zone point of view i'd be ok with China hosting another race. With the advent of night races, the change in start times & 4 races in the America's, it's a tough gig being a F1 fan in Australia.

We've also had multiple races in the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain & the US so a 2nd race in 1 country is nothing new.

I have more an issue with yet another street circuit plus the constant threat of losing classic European races . While I understand the economic benefits a street circuit has over a permanent track, I think a ratio of 5:1, or even 4:1 at a stretch, of fixed vs street circuits is just about right.

If we throw in Hanoi, Miami & China street tracks along with the 4 genuine street tracks we have now (Melbourne, Baku, Monaco & Singapore), without expanding the calendar, that'd give us a ratio of 3:1. Far too many street tracks on the calendar.

Plus, to add a street circuit to the calendar at the expense of tracks in European regions where the DNA of the sport runs deep, where almost every team in the history of the sport has been based, where a vast majority of the drivers have originated, & where an overwhelming majority of the fans live, would be to ignore the history & the DNA of the sport.

As for expanding the calendar, I think 20 - 21 races a year is enough. I've read the number 25 thrown around as the number of races that Liberty want a season. Too many for mine.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:41 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
From a purely time zone point of view i'd be ok with China hosting another race. With the advent of night races, the change in start times & 4 races in the America's, it's a tough gig being a F1 fan in Australia.

We've also had multiple races in the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain & the US so a 2nd race in 1 country is nothing new.

I have more an issue with yet another street circuit plus the constant threat of losing classic European races . While I understand the economic benefits a street circuit has over a permanent track, I think a ratio of 5:1, or even 4:1 at a stretch, of fixed vs street circuits is just about right.

If we throw in Hanoi, Miami & China street tracks along with the 4 genuine street tracks we have now (Melbourne, Baku, Monaco & Singapore), without expanding the calendar, that'd give us a ratio of 3:1. Far too many street tracks on the calendar.

Plus, to add a street circuit to the calendar at the expense of tracks in European regions where the DNA of the sport runs deep, where almost every team in the history of the sport has been based, where a vast majority of the drivers have originated, & where an overwhelming majority of the fans live, would be to ignore the history & the DNA of the sport.

As for expanding the calendar, I think 20 - 21 races a year is enough. I've read the number 25 thrown around as the number of races that Liberty want a season. Too many for mine.

Fully agree with everything other than the last part. I have no issue with 25 races tbh


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 8:05 am 
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Zoue wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
From a purely time zone point of view i'd be ok with China hosting another race. With the advent of night races, the change in start times & 4 races in the America's, it's a tough gig being a F1 fan in Australia.

We've also had multiple races in the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain & the US so a 2nd race in 1 country is nothing new.

I have more an issue with yet another street circuit plus the constant threat of losing classic European races . While I understand the economic benefits a street circuit has over a permanent track, I think a ratio of 5:1, or even 4:1 at a stretch, of fixed vs street circuits is just about right.

If we throw in Hanoi, Miami & China street tracks along with the 4 genuine street tracks we have now (Melbourne, Baku, Monaco & Singapore), without expanding the calendar, that'd give us a ratio of 3:1. Far too many street tracks on the calendar.

Plus, to add a street circuit to the calendar at the expense of tracks in European regions where the DNA of the sport runs deep, where almost every team in the history of the sport has been based, where a vast majority of the drivers have originated, & where an overwhelming majority of the fans live, would be to ignore the history & the DNA of the sport.

As for expanding the calendar, I think 20 - 21 races a year is enough. I've read the number 25 thrown around as the number of races that Liberty want a season. Too many for mine.

Fully agree with everything other than the last part. I have no issue with 25 races tbh


The main issue I have with a 25 race calendar is centred around the additional resource burden that'd be placed on the teams (financial, personnel) plus the issue of the regulations regarding component usage. I suppose it depends on what Liberty do to compensate the teams for the additional expenses & what the FIA do in regards of component allowances.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 11:26 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Zoue wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
From a purely time zone point of view i'd be ok with China hosting another race. With the advent of night races, the change in start times & 4 races in the America's, it's a tough gig being a F1 fan in Australia.

We've also had multiple races in the UK, Germany, France, Italy, Spain & the US so a 2nd race in 1 country is nothing new.

I have more an issue with yet another street circuit plus the constant threat of losing classic European races . While I understand the economic benefits a street circuit has over a permanent track, I think a ratio of 5:1, or even 4:1 at a stretch, of fixed vs street circuits is just about right.

If we throw in Hanoi, Miami & China street tracks along with the 4 genuine street tracks we have now (Melbourne, Baku, Monaco & Singapore), without expanding the calendar, that'd give us a ratio of 3:1. Far too many street tracks on the calendar.

Plus, to add a street circuit to the calendar at the expense of tracks in European regions where the DNA of the sport runs deep, where almost every team in the history of the sport has been based, where a vast majority of the drivers have originated, & where an overwhelming majority of the fans live, would be to ignore the history & the DNA of the sport.

As for expanding the calendar, I think 20 - 21 races a year is enough. I've read the number 25 thrown around as the number of races that Liberty want a season. Too many for mine.

Fully agree with everything other than the last part. I have no issue with 25 races tbh


The main issue I have with a 25 race calendar is centred around the additional resource burden that'd be placed on the teams (financial, personnel) plus the issue of the regulations regarding component usage. I suppose it depends on what Liberty do to compensate the teams for the additional expenses & what the FIA do in regards of component allowances.

I suppose in theory more races means more money in terms of advertising and circuit hosting fees. So the money the teams get *should* be proportional to what they get now.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 12:43 pm 
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I wouldn't be against another race in China, it is after all a big country, but I'd personally prefer to see a race in Africa so all the continents (excluding Antarctica!) are represented. We only have 1 south American race and 4 in the American time zones, so I wouldn't be against another south American race.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:12 pm 
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I don't think any country should have two races. I like each event to have its own unique identity and you definitely lose some of that when you host a second event. The "European" Grand Prix concept wasn't something I ever really warmed to, at the time it really seemed more of a means to fill the calendar as there weren't enough countries at the time willing to host a race.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:26 am 
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They're the biggest countries, so yes.
And also to emphasize the idea of being a 'world' championship, F1 predominantly having an european habitat, so that would add to compensate that.


Last edited by Bacus on Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:57 am 
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It seems slightly odd to have a second race in a country that doesn't have a (popular) driver. Spain and Germany got second races because they had superstar drivers...

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:58 am 
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ALESI wrote:
It seems slightly odd to have a second race in a country that doesn't have a (popular) driver. Spain and Germany got second races because they had superstar drivers...
That will certainly have helped to fill the seats, but I doubt it is the reason why Germany had two races in 1984. So did Italy, by the way. The "second" races were named differently, obviously, but it is a stretch calling the German or Italian drivers then active superstars.

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:21 am 
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They want to give the US two Grands Prix and now want to give China two Grands Prix. Neither country has a driver on the grid.

Seems like they want to throw additional GPs at the biggest national media markets.

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