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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 6:55 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
pokerman wrote:
kleefton wrote:
JN23 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Not sure if you guys have seen this already but Matthew Carter is pretty sure that Ocon will be at Merc next year and Russell possibly at Racing Point.

https://youtu.be/AlLj32Vjb6w?t=2139


I wonder where that leaves Perez?

Edit: and Bottas for what it's worth.


Carter was suggesting that stroll would be replaced, not Perez. Bottas I think maybe merc are thinking it’s time for a change and give someone else a shot in the car. It would be harsh to let him go but I guess if you are not championship level driver you can’t expect to be in a championship level car forever...so perhaps they are waiting to see if he is going to win the wdc or not.

Stroll will be replaced?

I watched the podcast but must have slept on that one, Carter is putting his credibility on the line somewhat, I'm dubious of this and Ocon replacing Bottas at Mercedes.


I've heard this podcast 3 times already as it's so interesting. His take on Ocon is quite understandabale & sensical. Ocon was poised to join Mercedes but got caught out due to circumstances. It was an infomal agreement with Cyril for Ocon to drive in 2019 but went for Ricciardo. All this happened after Bottas was already signed for Mercedes for 2019. As per Carter, had Renault signed Ricciardo before Bottas got signed, Mercedes would've grabbed Ocon instead as they do believe Ocon is talented & special.

And he does believe Ocon will drive for Mercedes in 2020 as he's got some good sources, maybe within Mercedes, as when he was Team Principal of Lotus, those engines were Mercedes as well. His connection & belief are surely worth pondering about.


Isn't Merc entering FE next year?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 9:22 am 
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Harpo wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Haas (at the moment) are saying Grosjean won't be ousted from the team & replaced at Germany.
https://www.gptoday.net/en/news/f1/249381/haas-no-plans-to-replace-grosjean-for-germany

Haas are bravehearts I must say!


That surely means we can start another rumour : It's Magnussen they intend to throw overboard (and rightly, if you ask me...).


In 2018, Magnussen outscored Grosjean 56 to 37. Now it is 14 to 2 so far. Why should Haas fire Magnussen and keep Grosjean?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 21, 2019 12:53 pm 
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spiritone wrote:
If ocon was the favorite at merc why has russell done both f1 tests this year???? He has more potential than ocon. Ocon will end up in haas, bottas to renault and latfi. to williams.


Ocon already has 2 & 1/2 years F1 experience. As per Carter from the podcast, Mercedes want to fasttrack Russell's progress as Mercedes has belief in Russell & want him to be ready for the occasion from 2021.

Ocon was drove the W08 at Goodwood this year, so he's not completely ignored. He's literally driving the Mercedes' simulator day in-day out. He just doesn't come to attend the races. With all the data they've gathered throughout the weekend, Ocon uses that data on the simulator to iron out any issues & find solutions.

All this because Ocon was actually in Lotus' Gravity program. When he was Lotus Mercedes' 4th driver, Mercedes saw how good Ocon was only by reviewing his simulator drives & runs. Mercedes grabbed him & since then belief he's he special, just as Russell.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:08 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
spiritone wrote:
If ocon was the favorite at merc why has russell done both f1 tests this year???? He has more potential than ocon. Ocon will end up in haas, bottas to renault and latfi. to williams.


Ocon already has 2 & 1/2 years F1 experience. As per Carter from the podcast, Mercedes want to fasttrack Russell's progress as Mercedes has belief in Russell & want him to be ready for the occasion from 2021.

Ocon was drove the W08 at Goodwood this year, so he's not completely ignored. He's literally driving the Mercedes' simulator day in-day out. He just doesn't come to attend the races. With all the data they've gathered throughout the weekend, Ocon uses that data on the simulator to iron out any issues & find solutions.

All this because Ocon was actually in Lotus' Gravity program. When he was Lotus Mercedes' 4th driver, Mercedes saw how good Ocon was only by reviewing his simulator drives & runs. Mercedes grabbed him & since then belief he's he special, just as Russell.


I'm not sure driving a glorified computer game for a year & a 2 yr old car at a festival would be adequate compensation for not being selected to actually driving their current car at this years tests.

Russel's done everything asked of him this year & I'd not be surprised to see him end up in the 2nd Merc seat next year after only 1 year in the sport. Leclerc has shown it can be done as I think he's out driven Vettel this year & each race he's showing him up more & more.

For Merc to bring Ocon directly into perhaps the toughest gig in the sport at the moment (perhaps Pierre Ghasly might disagree there) after a year hiatus is a big ask. I'm not saying I don't think it'll happen, Matt Carter gave some pretty strong hint's that he knew it was a done deal, but i'm thinking if Merc were to dump Bottas, could Russell be a better pick so he can get in & acclimatize to the Merc while Hamilton's still there & maybe give Ocon a year or 2 to find his race legs again in prep for Hamilton's retirement or if it's found Russell can't cut the mustard?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 10:13 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
spiritone wrote:
If ocon was the favorite at merc why has russell done both f1 tests this year???? He has more potential than ocon. Ocon will end up in haas, bottas to renault and latfi. to williams.


Ocon already has 2 & 1/2 years F1 experience. As per Carter from the podcast, Mercedes want to fasttrack Russell's progress as Mercedes has belief in Russell & want him to be ready for the occasion from 2021.

Ocon was drove the W08 at Goodwood this year, so he's not completely ignored. He's literally driving the Mercedes' simulator day in-day out. He just doesn't come to attend the races. With all the data they've gathered throughout the weekend, Ocon uses that data on the simulator to iron out any issues & find solutions.

All this because Ocon was actually in Lotus' Gravity program. When he was Lotus Mercedes' 4th driver, Mercedes saw how good Ocon was only by reviewing his simulator drives & runs. Mercedes grabbed him & since then belief he's he special, just as Russell.


I'm not sure driving a glorified computer game for a year & a 2 yr old car at a festival would be adequate compensation for not being selected to actually driving their current car at this years tests.

Russel's done everything asked of him this year & I'd not be surprised to see him end up in the 2nd Merc seat next year after only 1 year in the sport. Leclerc has shown it can be done as I think he's out driven Vettel this year & each race he's showing him up more & more.

For Merc to bring Ocon directly into perhaps the toughest gig in the sport at the moment (perhaps Pierre Ghasly might disagree there) after a year hiatus is a big ask. I'm not saying I don't think it'll happen, Matt Carter gave some pretty strong hint's that he knew it was a done deal, but i'm thinking if Merc were to dump Bottas, could Russell be a better pick so he can get in & acclimatize to the Merc while Hamilton's still there & maybe give Ocon a year or 2 to find his race legs again in prep for Hamilton's retirement or if it's found Russell can't cut the mustard?


I don't know if Russell would do better than Ocon or not but I can't see him getting picked ahead of him. I can see the intensive to dump Bottas to bring in Ocon. To keep him part of the program. There isn't that pressure with Russell.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:00 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
pokerman wrote:
kleefton wrote:
JN23 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Not sure if you guys have seen this already but Matthew Carter is pretty sure that Ocon will be at Merc next year and Russell possibly at Racing Point.

https://youtu.be/AlLj32Vjb6w?t=2139


I wonder where that leaves Perez?

Edit: and Bottas for what it's worth.


Carter was suggesting that stroll would be replaced, not Perez. Bottas I think maybe merc are thinking it’s time for a change and give someone else a shot in the car. It would be harsh to let him go but I guess if you are not championship level driver you can’t expect to be in a championship level car forever...so perhaps they are waiting to see if he is going to win the wdc or not.

Stroll will be replaced?

I watched the podcast but must have slept on that one, Carter is putting his credibility on the line somewhat, I'm dubious of this and Ocon replacing Bottas at Mercedes.


I've heard this podcast 3 times already as it's so interesting. His take on Ocon is quite understandabale & sensical. Ocon was poised to join Mercedes but got caught out due to circumstances. It was an infomal agreement with Cyril for Ocon to drive in 2019 but went for Ricciardo. All this happened after Bottas was already signed for Mercedes for 2019. As per Carter, had Renault signed Ricciardo before Bottas got signed, Mercedes would've grabbed Ocon instead as they do believe Ocon is talented & special.

And he does believe Ocon will drive for Mercedes in 2020 as he's got some good sources, maybe within Mercedes, as when he was Team Principal of Lotus, those engines were Mercedes as well. His connection & belief are surely worth pondering about.

Maybe it's just cloak and daggers from Wolff then when he suggests that Mercedes are close to signing Bottas again?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 11:02 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
pokerman wrote:
kleefton wrote:
JN23 wrote:
I wonder where that leaves Perez?

Edit: and Bottas for what it's worth.


Carter was suggesting that stroll would be replaced, not Perez. Bottas I think maybe merc are thinking it’s time for a change and give someone else a shot in the car. It would be harsh to let him go but I guess if you are not championship level driver you can’t expect to be in a championship level car forever...so perhaps they are waiting to see if he is going to win the wdc or not.

Stroll will be replaced?

I watched the podcast but must have slept on that one, Carter is putting his credibility on the line somewhat, I'm dubious of this and Ocon replacing Bottas at Mercedes.


I've heard this podcast 3 times already as it's so interesting. His take on Ocon is quite understandabale & sensical. Ocon was poised to join Mercedes but got caught out due to circumstances. It was an infomal agreement with Cyril for Ocon to drive in 2019 but went for Ricciardo. All this happened after Bottas was already signed for Mercedes for 2019. As per Carter, had Renault signed Ricciardo before Bottas got signed, Mercedes would've grabbed Ocon instead as they do believe Ocon is talented & special.

And he does believe Ocon will drive for Mercedes in 2020 as he's got some good sources, maybe within Mercedes, as when he was Team Principal of Lotus, those engines were Mercedes as well. His connection & belief are surely worth pondering about.


Isn't Merc entering FE next year?

I don't believe that the plan is to put Ocon into FE?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:14 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:



I've heard this podcast 3 times already as it's so interesting. His take on Ocon is quite understandabale & sensical. Ocon was poised to join Mercedes but got caught out due to circumstances. It was an infomal agreement with Cyril for Ocon to drive in 2019 but went for Ricciardo. All this happened after Bottas was already signed for Mercedes for 2019. As per Carter, had Renault signed Ricciardo before Bottas got signed, Mercedes would've grabbed Ocon instead as they do believe Ocon is talented & special.

And he does believe Ocon will drive for Mercedes in 2020 as he's got some good sources, maybe within Mercedes, as when he was Team Principal of Lotus, those engines were Mercedes as well. His connection & belief are surely worth pondering about.

Maybe it's just cloak and daggers from Wolff then when he suggests that Mercedes are close to signing Bottas again?


Saward saying the Carter source is saying something has been lost in translation and Ocon is not going to Mercedes but has been 'placed' elsewhere for the 2020 season.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 7:24 am 
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pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
kleefton wrote:
JN23 wrote:
kleefton wrote:
Not sure if you guys have seen this already but Matthew Carter is pretty sure that Ocon will be at Merc next year and Russell possibly at Racing Point.

https://youtu.be/AlLj32Vjb6w?t=2139

I wonder where that leaves Perez?

Edit: and Bottas for what it's worth.

Carter was suggesting that stroll would be replaced, not Perez. Bottas I think maybe merc are thinking it’s time for a change and give someone else a shot in the car. It would be harsh to let him go but I guess if you are not championship level driver you can’t expect to be in a championship level car forever...so perhaps they are waiting to see if he is going to win the wdc or not.
Stroll will be replaced?

I watched the podcast but must have slept on that one, Carter is putting his credibility on the line somewhat, I'm dubious of this and Ocon replacing Bottas at Mercedes.


I've heard this podcast 3 times already as it's so interesting. His take on Ocon is quite understandabale & sensical. Ocon was poised to join Mercedes but got caught out due to circumstances. It was an infomal agreement with Cyril for Ocon to drive in 2019 but went for Ricciardo. All this happened after Bottas was already signed for Mercedes for 2019. As per Carter, had Renault signed Ricciardo before Bottas got signed, Mercedes would've grabbed Ocon instead as they do believe Ocon is talented & special.

And he does believe Ocon will drive for Mercedes in 2020 as he's got some good sources, maybe within Mercedes, as when he was Team Principal of Lotus, those engines were Mercedes as well. His connection & belief are surely worth pondering about.

Maybe it's just cloak and daggers from Wolff then when he suggests that Mercedes are close to signing Bottas again?


Wolff should look at the 2018 driver standings again.
Bottas was 5th and Hamilton 1st.
If Ferrari and or Red Bull mount a serious challenge in 2020, then Merc could lose the constructors because Bottas isn't quick enough.

(yes he is marginally improved in 2019, but even Kubica could drive that 2nd Merc into 2nd in the drivers standings this year)

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:27 am 
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shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:



I've heard this podcast 3 times already as it's so interesting. His take on Ocon is quite understandabale & sensical. Ocon was poised to join Mercedes but got caught out due to circumstances. It was an infomal agreement with Cyril for Ocon to drive in 2019 but went for Ricciardo. All this happened after Bottas was already signed for Mercedes for 2019. As per Carter, had Renault signed Ricciardo before Bottas got signed, Mercedes would've grabbed Ocon instead as they do believe Ocon is talented & special.

And he does believe Ocon will drive for Mercedes in 2020 as he's got some good sources, maybe within Mercedes, as when he was Team Principal of Lotus, those engines were Mercedes as well. His connection & belief are surely worth pondering about.

Maybe it's just cloak and daggers from Wolff then when he suggests that Mercedes are close to signing Bottas again?


Saward saying the Carter source is saying something has been lost in translation and Ocon is not going to Mercedes but has been 'placed' elsewhere for the 2020 season.


Saward is suggesting Hulk should go to Haas & Ocon should fill his place at Renault.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/41961/rumour-ocon-to-move-to-renault-with-hulkenberg-in-at-haas.html

Ocon has said innumerable times he wouldn't mind if Mercedes loaned him to some other team but his ultimate dream is to drive for the Mercedes works team.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:16 am 
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shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:



I've heard this podcast 3 times already as it's so interesting. His take on Ocon is quite understandabale & sensical. Ocon was poised to join Mercedes but got caught out due to circumstances. It was an infomal agreement with Cyril for Ocon to drive in 2019 but went for Ricciardo. All this happened after Bottas was already signed for Mercedes for 2019. As per Carter, had Renault signed Ricciardo before Bottas got signed, Mercedes would've grabbed Ocon instead as they do believe Ocon is talented & special.

And he does believe Ocon will drive for Mercedes in 2020 as he's got some good sources, maybe within Mercedes, as when he was Team Principal of Lotus, those engines were Mercedes as well. His connection & belief are surely worth pondering about.

Maybe it's just cloak and daggers from Wolff then when he suggests that Mercedes are close to signing Bottas again?


Saward saying the Carter source is saying something has been lost in translation and Ocon is not going to Mercedes but has been 'placed' elsewhere for the 2020 season.

Yeah I saw that which for me makes more sense.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:19 am 
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Randine wrote:
Wolff should look at the 2018 driver standings again.
Bottas was 5th and Hamilton 1st.
If Ferrari and or Red Bull mount a serious challenge in 2020, then Merc could lose the constructors because Bottas isn't quick enough.

(yes he is marginally improved in 2019, but even Kubica could drive that 2nd Merc into 2nd in the drivers standings this year)

The bottom line is that the team have still won everything with Bottas plus they don't have to worry about him crashing into Hamilton.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 11:20 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
shoot999 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:



I've heard this podcast 3 times already as it's so interesting. His take on Ocon is quite understandabale & sensical. Ocon was poised to join Mercedes but got caught out due to circumstances. It was an infomal agreement with Cyril for Ocon to drive in 2019 but went for Ricciardo. All this happened after Bottas was already signed for Mercedes for 2019. As per Carter, had Renault signed Ricciardo before Bottas got signed, Mercedes would've grabbed Ocon instead as they do believe Ocon is talented & special.

And he does believe Ocon will drive for Mercedes in 2020 as he's got some good sources, maybe within Mercedes, as when he was Team Principal of Lotus, those engines were Mercedes as well. His connection & belief are surely worth pondering about.

Maybe it's just cloak and daggers from Wolff then when he suggests that Mercedes are close to signing Bottas again?


Saward saying the Carter source is saying something has been lost in translation and Ocon is not going to Mercedes but has been 'placed' elsewhere for the 2020 season.


Saward is suggesting Hulk should go to Haas & Ocon should fill his place at Renault.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/41961/rumour-ocon-to-move-to-renault-with-hulkenberg-in-at-haas.html

Ocon has said innumerable times he wouldn't mind if Mercedes loaned him to some other team but his ultimate dream is to drive for the Mercedes works team.

Which all makes perfect sense. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:03 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Randine wrote:
Wolff should look at the 2018 driver standings again.
Bottas was 5th and Hamilton 1st.
If Ferrari and or Red Bull mount a serious challenge in 2020, then Merc could lose the constructors because Bottas isn't quick enough.

(yes he is marginally improved in 2019, but even Kubica could drive that 2nd Merc into 2nd in the drivers standings this year)

The bottom line is that the team have still won everything with Bottas plus they don't have to worry about him crashing into Hamilton.


Mate if Mercedes believed Ocon can only crash, they wouldn't make him a reserve driver & would evict him from the Mercedes umbrella. Ocon was not the only one to cause friction. Checo played an equal hand wen he started all this mess in Canada in 2018. Infact, Checo didn't want his unofficial no.1 status to crumble & since Ocon & Checo are part of the same mould (where they would try to take any opportunity & go for the gap), a friction arose.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:04 pm 
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Ricciardo would be a great benchmark for Ocon. If he can at least match him most of the time in his first season for Renault he is probably worth ago in a Mercedes. If he's miles off Merc can concentrate on Russell.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:12 pm 
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I wasn't expecting 2020 silly season to have much of an offering but am being proven wrong. The silly season almost covers all teams barring McLaren & possibly Alfa Romeo.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:13 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Randine wrote:
Wolff should look at the 2018 driver standings again.
Bottas was 5th and Hamilton 1st.
If Ferrari and or Red Bull mount a serious challenge in 2020, then Merc could lose the constructors because Bottas isn't quick enough.

(yes he is marginally improved in 2019, but even Kubica could drive that 2nd Merc into 2nd in the drivers standings this year)

The bottom line is that the team have still won everything with Bottas plus they don't have to worry about him crashing into Hamilton.


Mate if Mercedes believed Ocon can only crash, they wouldn't make him a reserve driver & would evict him from the Mercedes umbrella. Ocon was not the only one to cause friction. Checo played an equal hand wen he started all this mess in Canada in 2018. Infact, Checo didn't want his unofficial no.1 status to crumble & since Ocon & Checo are part of the same mould (where they would try to take any opportunity & go for the gap), a friction arose.

I'm not saying that they believe that Ocon would crash into Hamilton only that they know that Bottas' will not crash into Hamilton, why look to fix what's not broken when they are winning everything?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:15 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Ricciardo would be a great benchmark for Ocon. If he can at least match him most of the time in his first season for Renault he is probably worth ago in a Mercedes. If he's miles off Merc can concentrate on Russell.

Indeed, I rate Ricciardo presently as the 3rd fastest driver in F1, if Ocon can match him he's straight into the Mercedes.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:33 am 
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I have a feeling that Mercedes believe that Russell has a higher ceiling than Ocon. I don’t think that Ocon will ever be anything better than a Bottas/Perez/Hulkenberg level driver, whereas I suspect that Russell has the talent to be something greater.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:40 am 
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Somebody give me one good reason why Haas would want the hulk? Haas needs someone that will move the team forward not stay the same.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:43 am 
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spiritone wrote:
Somebody give me one good reason why Haas would want the hulk? Haas needs someone that will move the team forward not stay the same.

Because they perceive that Hulk is an upgrade over Magnussen and Grosjean?

It’s not like Haas can attract someone like Hamilton, they need to be realistic with their driver targets.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:51 am 
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spiritone wrote:
Somebody give me one good reason why Haas would want the hulk? Haas needs someone that will move the team forward not stay the same.

Because Hulk is probably a lot better than Grosjean or Magnussen. At the least, he's worked with midfield teams before, and hasn't shown any of the tendencies towards toxicity that the current Haas lineup falls victim to. He could also help validate their car: throughout his career, if there's a decent midfield result to be had, Hulk has generally been able to get it. If he can't score in their car, they know where the problem is.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:58 am 
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In what way is hulk an improvement over mag or grosjean? Riccardo has been able to beat him right away. His best days are behind him.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 3:40 am 
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That’s because Ricciardo is a far better driver than either Grosjean or Magnussen. Ricciardo is the third best driver on the grid IMO.

Also, it’s a bit strange to say that Hulkenberg is past his prime. He’s not even that old, younger than Grosjean in fact.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:31 am 
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KingVoid wrote:
spiritone wrote:
Somebody give me one good reason why Haas would want the hulk? Haas needs someone that will move the team forward not stay the same.

Because they perceive that Hulk is an upgrade over Magnussen and Grosjean?

It’s not like Haas can attract someone like Hamilton, they need to be realistic with their driver targets.

Yeah I wouldn't be someone that rates either Grosjean or KMag that highly.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:32 am 
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spiritone wrote:
In what way is hulk an improvement over mag or grosjean? Riccardo has been able to beat him right away. His best days are behind him.

Ricciardo is probably the third best driver in F1, way above the level of Grosjean and KMag.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 1:27 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
spiritone wrote:
In what way is hulk an improvement over mag or grosjean? Riccardo has been able to beat him right away. His best days are behind him.

Ricciardo is probably the third best driver in F1, way above the level of Grosjean and KMag.


I'm assuming you'd rate Hamilton & Verstappen above Ricciardo poker.

Would you say Ricciardo's driving better than Leclerc this year considering their relative levels of experience & team mate quality?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:24 pm 
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Jezza13 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
spiritone wrote:
In what way is hulk an improvement over mag or grosjean? Riccardo has been able to beat him right away. His best days are behind him.

Ricciardo is probably the third best driver in F1, way above the level of Grosjean and KMag.


I'm assuming you'd rate Hamilton & Verstappen above Ricciardo poker.

Would you say Ricciardo's driving better than Leclerc this year considering their relative levels of experience & team mate quality?

Yep, regarding Leclerc he's still learning/improving.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:26 pm 
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So hulk is better than Vettle, Leclair,Norris, Sainz, Bottas? If hulk got in a haas, how much faster would he be than mag? If he was such a good developer of cars how come renault sucked until ricciardo got on that team? Haas doesn't need a hulk, they need a norris or russell or some up and coming star like ocon to excite the team.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:42 pm 
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spiritone wrote:
So hulk is better than Vettle, Leclair,Norris, Sainz, Bottas? If hulk got in a haas, how much faster would he be than mag? If he was such a good developer of cars how come renault sucked until ricciardo got on that team? Haas doesn't need a hulk, they need a norris or russell or some up and coming star like ocon to excite the team.


Who has said Hulk is better than Vettel or Leclerc? I would faster and more consistent with it then either of the current Haas drivers.

The Renault cars sucked until Ricciardo joined the team? They have less than half the points now than they did at this stage last season.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 2:51 pm 
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spiritone wrote:
So hulk is better than Vettle, Leclair,Norris, Sainz, Bottas? If hulk got in a haas, how much faster would he be than mag? If he was such a good developer of cars how come renault sucked until ricciardo got on that team? Haas doesn't need a hulk, they need a norris or russell or some up and coming star like ocon to excite the team.

The Hulk actually beat Sainz in the same car and won what is termed as Formula 1.5 last season in the Renault, Formula 1.5 is presently being lead by Sainz in a McLaren so you're really wide of the mark in how much Renault sucked before Ricciardo joined the team.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 5:40 pm 
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So what your arguing is that haas should hire hulk because he might be a tiny bit better than the drivers they got. At best hulk is in the middle of the drivers that are presently racing in F1. They may not be able to hire hamilton but they should be looking for the next hamilton. Hiring hulk or perez isn't going to advance them any further up the standings. Need to gamble more on driver choices.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:47 pm 
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spiritone wrote:
So what your arguing is that haas should hire hulk because he might be a tiny bit better than the drivers they got. At best hulk is in the middle of the drivers that are presently racing in F1. They may not be able to hire hamilton but they should be looking for the next hamilton. Hiring hulk or perez isn't going to advance them any further up the standings. Need to gamble more on driver choices.


So who should they bring in? And if Hulk is the best available then why not get him?


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 6:47 pm 
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spiritone wrote:
Somebody give me one good reason why Haas would want the hulk? Haas needs someone that will move the team forward not stay the same.


The Hulk has always delivered consistency. Haas last season missed out on so many points through driver errors and Grosjean looks mentally shot to pieces. It's a no brainer for me.

The main question for me is why would Hulkenberg want Haas? They are a bit of a shambles at the moment and you have to suspect that better midfield deals would become available to him if he departed Renault.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 8:48 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
spiritone wrote:
Somebody give me one good reason why Haas would want the hulk? Haas needs someone that will move the team forward not stay the same.


The Hulk has always delivered consistency. Haas last season missed out on so many points through driver errors and Grosjean looks mentally shot to pieces. It's a no brainer for me.

The main question for me is why would Hulkenberg want Haas? They are a bit of a shambles at the moment and you have to suspect that better midfield deals would become available to him if he departed Renault.


Would they, though? McLaren have decided their line-up. Alfa Romeo have Kimi in the seat they get to decide. Toro Rosso would be young Red Bull drivers. Renault obviously wouldn't be an option because he would've just left them, while Williams are not a better option than Haas right now.

That would leave Racing Point as the only other team besides Haas. But is Hulk enough of an upgrade on Perez, given the financial benefits that Perez brings, to warrant dropping Sergio for him? Hulk did outqualify him over their three years as teammates but Checo had more points in two of the three years, and of course stood on the podium each year of their partnership.

Plus if Racing Point are going to drop Perez, they're surely going to be looking to find a driver that Stroll looks better against, which isn't Hulkenberg.

So we're back to Haas as his only real option.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:14 pm 
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spiritone wrote:
So hulk is better than Vettle, Leclair,Norris, Sainz, Bottas? If hulk got in a haas, how much faster would he be than mag? If he was such a good developer of cars how come renault sucked until ricciardo got on that team? Haas doesn't need a hulk, they need a norris or russell or some up and coming star like ocon to excite the team.


I don't think Hülkenberg would be faster than Magnussen in the peak but he may be more consistent in his speed. In the races, Hülkenberg has been error-prone as well


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:19 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
I have a feeling that Mercedes believe that Russell has a higher ceiling than Ocon. I don’t think that Ocon will ever be anything better than a Bottas/Perez/Hulkenberg level driver, whereas I suspect that Russell has the talent to be something greater.


I do not know what Mercedes believe. However, I doubt that Russel is better or has a higher ceiling than Ocon. Quite in contrast., actually.

Let's be honest, everyone would easily beat the 2019 Kubica. Sad but true.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:53 pm 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
I have a feeling that Mercedes believe that Russell has a higher ceiling than Ocon. I don’t think that Ocon will ever be anything better than a Bottas/Perez/Hulkenberg level driver, whereas I suspect that Russell has the talent to be something greater.

I do not know what Mercedes believe. However, I doubt that Russel is better or has a higher ceiling than Ocon. Quite in contrast., actually.

Let's be honest, everyone would easily beat the 2019 Kubica. Sad but true.

Firstly, we don't know that. Since Kubica is currently a total unknown, it's equally possible that Russel is very good or Kubica is very bad.

Secondly, could anyone have easily won the F2 championship as a rookie, beating Lando Norris in the process?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:48 am 
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Exediron wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
I have a feeling that Mercedes believe that Russell has a higher ceiling than Ocon. I don’t think that Ocon will ever be anything better than a Bottas/Perez/Hulkenberg level driver, whereas I suspect that Russell has the talent to be something greater.

I do not know what Mercedes believe. However, I doubt that Russel is better or has a higher ceiling than Ocon. Quite in contrast., actually.

Let's be honest, everyone would easily beat the 2019 Kubica. Sad but true.

Firstly, we don't know that. Since Kubica is currently a total unknown, it's equally possible that Russel is very good or Kubica is very bad.

Secondly, could anyone have easily won the F2 championship as a rookie, beating Lando Norris in the process?


If GP3 is a significant better preperation than Ex-F3 and/or the specific challenge of F2 ( which is not really about being the fastest or best but much more about strategy calls and tyre management than F1), then: yes.
Russel is good, but IMO more of a Vandoorne-type of good. Both Ocon and Norris are better IMO (but of course, my opinion may be wrong ;) ) .


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:34 am 
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Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Paolo_Lasardi wrote:
KingVoid wrote:
I have a feeling that Mercedes believe that Russell has a higher ceiling than Ocon. I don’t think that Ocon will ever be anything better than a Bottas/Perez/Hulkenberg level driver, whereas I suspect that Russell has the talent to be something greater.

I do not know what Mercedes believe. However, I doubt that Russel is better or has a higher ceiling than Ocon. Quite in contrast., actually.

Let's be honest, everyone would easily beat the 2019 Kubica. Sad but true.

Firstly, we don't know that. Since Kubica is currently a total unknown, it's equally possible that Russel is very good or Kubica is very bad.

Secondly, could anyone have easily won the F2 championship as a rookie, beating Lando Norris in the process?


If GP3 is a significant better preperation than Ex-F3 and/or the specific challenge of F2 ( which is not really about being the fastest or best but much more about strategy calls and tyre management than F1), then: yes.
Russel is good, but IMO more of a Vandoorne-type of good. Both Ocon and Norris are better IMO (but of course, my opinion may be wrong ;) ) .


As per Matthew Cater in the MissedApex podcast, when Ocon was somewhat of an unknown driver & the 4th driver at Lotus, he did race & practice in the simulator. Since the Lotus cars were powered by Mercedes then, people from Mercedes (includes Wolff?) were so impressed by his simulation runs, they grabbed Ocon from the Infinity program of Lotus & took him under their wings.

I'm sure as of today, Wolff still highly rates Ocon & would be the 1st choice to replace Bottas. Question is on what grounds do they oust Bottas? If Hamilton creates a big gap to win the WDC & for some reason Bottas either crashes often or finishes 3rd in the WDC, they'll have a good reason to replace him with Ocon.

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