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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:17 am 
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It's inevitable now:
Renault - Ocon > Hulkenberg
Haas - Hulkenberg > Grosjean

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:22 am 
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A wild prediction would be Ocon to RP in place of Perez and Sergio moving to Haas. No change at Renault.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:23 am 
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All things considered, you can see why Merc has stuck with Bottas. Toto has said many times that team harmony is paramount and I just don't see Ocon being a team player like Valtteri.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:28 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Bottas confirmed for 2020.

Which is weird since I thought Toto was so much more invested in Ocon than he was Bottas, right... ;)


Apparently.

So i'm guessing it's only a 1 yr deal? If that's the case & Ocon signs a 1 yr deal with whoever takes him then my guess is either Bottas will need to be stellar or Ocon will need to flop next year for Bottas to stay at Merc for 2021.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:36 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Bottas confirmed for 2020.

Which is weird since I thought Toto was so much more invested in Ocon than he was Bottas, right... ;)


Apparently.

So i'm guessing it's only a 1 yr deal? If that's the case & Ocon signs a 1 yr deal with whoever takes him then my guess is either Bottas will need to be stellar or Ocon will need to flop next year for Bottas to stay at Merc for 2021.

If Russell completes his apprenticeship with Williams next season (and performs like 2019) then don't count him out for the second Merc seat.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 10:45 am 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Bottas confirmed for 2020.

Which is weird since I thought Toto was so much more invested in Ocon than he was Bottas, right... ;)


Apparently.

So i'm guessing it's only a 1 yr deal? If that's the case & Ocon signs a 1 yr deal with whoever takes him then my guess is either Bottas will need to be stellar or Ocon will need to flop next year for Bottas to stay at Merc for 2021.

If Russell completes his apprenticeship with Williams next season (and performs like 2019) then don't count him out for the second Merc seat.


Well that might be reflected in the length of contract Ocon signs.

If his contract's greater than a season then it might be Russell who gets the nod but I think if it's a 1 yr contract then to me that'd be a sign that Merc are giving him a year to get his F1 legs back then they'll re-evaluate the #2 seat at seasons end.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:36 am 
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Jezza13 wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Bottas confirmed for 2020.

Which is weird since I thought Toto was so much more invested in Ocon than he was Bottas, right... ;)


Apparently.

So i'm guessing it's only a 1 yr deal? If that's the case & Ocon signs a 1 yr deal with whoever takes him then my guess is either Bottas will need to be stellar or Ocon will need to flop next year for Bottas to stay at Merc for 2021.

If Russell completes his apprenticeship with Williams next season (and performs like 2019) then don't count him out for the second Merc seat.


Well that might be reflected in the length of contract Ocon signs.

If his contract's greater than a season then it might be Russell who gets the nod but I think if it's a 1 yr contract then to me that'd be a sign that Merc are giving him a year to get his F1 legs back then they'll re-evaluate the #2 seat at seasons end.


I would be shocked if Russell's loan deal doesn't include an option for Mercedes to recall him at the end of the 2019 season. Similarly, if Ocon was going out on a multi-year loan deal then I would expect Mercedes to be able to recall him at the end of 2020. I think that would be a pretty standard clause to have in any multi-year loan deal.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:40 am 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
It's inevitable now:
Renault - Ocon > Hulkenberg
Haas - Hulkenberg > Grosjean


I would add Grosjean > Williams for the following reasons:

1) Grosjean (and I've said this before) feels like the kind of driver who will take whatever seat he can get as long as he's still on the F1 grid
2) Even with point #1 in mind, he would actually be a smart signing for Williams. On his day he is a good midfield driver and is going to be better, short-term, than any of the F2 field.
3) If we believe what we've been told then it was Grosjean who was pushing for Haas to revert back to the Melbourne-spec car, something he did previously with (I think it was) Renault. If that is correct then Williams might benefit from having him racing for them, certainly more so than they would having Russell alongside an F1 rookie.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:48 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
It's inevitable now:
Renault - Ocon > Hulkenberg
Haas - Hulkenberg > Grosjean


I would add Grosjean > Williams for the following reasons:

1) Grosjean (and I've said this before) feels like the kind of driver who will take whatever seat he can get as long as he's still on the F1 grid
2) Even with point #1 in mind, he would actually be a smart signing for Williams. On his day he is a good midfield driver and is going to be better, short-term, than any of the F2 field.
3) If we believe what we've been told then it was Grosjean who was pushing for Haas to revert back to the Melbourne-spec car, something he did previously with (I think it was) Renault. If that is correct then Williams might benefit from having him racing for them, certainly more so than they would having Russell alongside an F1 rookie.

Does Grosjean have any significant backing behind him though? I get the feeling the second Williams seat isn't so much up for grabs as it is up for sale.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:49 am 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Bottas confirmed for 2020.

Which is weird since I thought Toto was so much more invested in Ocon than he was Bottas, right... ;)


Apparently.

So i'm guessing it's only a 1 yr deal? If that's the case & Ocon signs a 1 yr deal with whoever takes him then my guess is either Bottas will need to be stellar or Ocon will need to flop next year for Bottas to stay at Merc for 2021.

If Russell completes his apprenticeship with Williams next season (and performs like 2019) then don't count him out for the second Merc seat.


Well that might be reflected in the length of contract Ocon signs.

If his contract's greater than a season then it might be Russell who gets the nod but I think if it's a 1 yr contract then to me that'd be a sign that Merc are giving him a year to get his F1 legs back then they'll re-evaluate the #2 seat at seasons end.


I would be shocked if Russell's loan deal doesn't include an option for Mercedes to recall him at the end of the 2019 season. Similarly, if Ocon was going out on a multi-year loan deal then I would expect Mercedes to be able to recall him at the end of 2020. I think that would be a pretty standard clause to have in any multi-year loan deal.


And that depends on if Merc could do a deal with a team willing to take Ocon on what could potentially be a single year deal.

They may have had to let Ocon go for him to get a drive.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:05 pm 
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Ocon has joined Renault as per this tweet:


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:12 pm 
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Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
It's inevitable now:
Renault - Ocon > Hulkenberg
Haas - Hulkenberg > Grosjean


I would add Grosjean > Williams for the following reasons:

1) Grosjean (and I've said this before) feels like the kind of driver who will take whatever seat he can get as long as he's still on the F1 grid
2) Even with point #1 in mind, he would actually be a smart signing for Williams. On his day he is a good midfield driver and is going to be better, short-term, than any of the F2 field.
3) If we believe what we've been told then it was Grosjean who was pushing for Haas to revert back to the Melbourne-spec car, something he did previously with (I think it was) Renault. If that is correct then Williams might benefit from having him racing for them, certainly more so than they would having Russell alongside an F1 rookie.

Does Grosjean have any significant backing behind him though? I get the feeling the second Williams seat isn't so much up for grabs as it is up for sale.


He traditionally came with Total backing I think. I'm not sure if that's still the case though.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:14 pm 
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I can't help but feel Hulk's crash in Germany ended his Renault career. Because overall he hasn't done a bad job relative to Dan (who hasn't been wowing the world either)

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:25 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
I can't help but feel Hulk's crash in Germany ended his Renault career. Because overall he hasn't done a bad job relative to Dan (who hasn't been wowing the world either)


He's been to slow to make keeping him a no brainer. I think it's harsh but Ocon probably is the better driver, or at least will be.

Hulk now has to pray Albon is awful and Gasly looks about equal to Kvyat. Otherwise it's Haas.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:28 pm 
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Confirmed:

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ocon ... t/4523388/

A Frenchman at Renault - makes sense really.

I wonder what Hulk's tweet was about the other day then?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:29 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
I can't help but feel Hulk's crash in Germany ended his Renault career. Because overall he hasn't done a bad job relative to Dan (who hasn't been wowing the world either)


Part of the myriad of rumours doing the rounds was the Renault were keen on getting a Merc backed Ocon to help offset Ricciardo's salary.

I do feel a bit for Hulkenberg. Value for money wise, looking at track performance alone, I think he's done a pretty good job in a less than competitive car.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:29 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
I can't help but feel Hulk's crash in Germany ended his Renault career. Because overall he hasn't done a bad job relative to Dan (who hasn't been wowing the world either)


He's been to slow to make keeping him a no brainer. I think it's harsh but Ocon probably is the better driver, or at least will be.

Hulk now has to pray Albon is awful and Gasly looks about equal to Kvyat. Otherwise it's Haas.


Steiner has said Ocon, Hulk & even Grosjean were for a running of the 2nd seat at Haas. With Ocon to Renault, Hulk has a good chance with Haas.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:47 pm 
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So the only reason Hulkenberg wouldn't already have signed with Haas is that he fancies a shot at that second Red Bull seat.

On that basis - and assuming Haas would rather sign Hulk than retain Grosjean - then it doesn't really hurt either Hulk or Haas to wait a little. If the Red Bull option doesn't transpire then they can do a deal then, and if Hulk did end up at Red Bull, Haas would still have the option of retaining Grosjean (who Steiner said was one of the three candidates) or even taking whichever of Albon/Gasly/Kvyat get dropped by Red Bull to make room for Hulk.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:51 pm 
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The more I think about it, a Verstappen/Hulkenberg tie-up wouldn't be too bad. Nico would finally get that shot at a podium.

I can't see Albon doing a better job than Gasly and I don't see RBR taking Kvyat back, so options for 2020 are limited for them indeed.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 12:58 pm 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
The more I think about it, a Verstappen/Hulkenberg tie-up wouldn't be too bad. Nico would finally get that shot at a podium.

I can't see Albon doing a better job than Gasly and I don't see RBR taking Kvyat back, so options for 2020 are limited for them indeed.


It would also be kind of ironic that Ricciardo's move in the other direction had, indirectly, resulted in Hulkenberg ending up in a better car.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:04 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Bottas confirmed for 2020.

Which is weird since I thought Toto was so much more invested in Ocon than he was Bottas, right... ;)

Well according to the article in this thread, Wolff wanted Ocon but Hamilton and the engineers wanted Bottas and that swayed the decision.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:05 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
First domino has fallen for 2020. Bottas confirmed by Mercedes!


As what was most recently rumoured, so if the rumours continue to be true that would put Ocon in the Renault and the Hulk in the Haas?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:08 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
Jezza13 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Bottas confirmed for 2020.

Which is weird since I thought Toto was so much more invested in Ocon than he was Bottas, right... ;)


Apparently.

So i'm guessing it's only a 1 yr deal? If that's the case & Ocon signs a 1 yr deal with whoever takes him then my guess is either Bottas will need to be stellar or Ocon will need to flop next year for Bottas to stay at Merc for 2021.

If Russell completes his apprenticeship with Williams next season (and performs like 2019) then don't count him out for the second Merc seat.


Well that might be reflected in the length of contract Ocon signs.

If his contract's greater than a season then it might be Russell who gets the nod but I think if it's a 1 yr contract then to me that'd be a sign that Merc are giving him a year to get his F1 legs back then they'll re-evaluate the #2 seat at seasons end.


I would be shocked if Russell's loan deal doesn't include an option for Mercedes to recall him at the end of the 2019 season. Similarly, if Ocon was going out on a multi-year loan deal then I would expect Mercedes to be able to recall him at the end of 2020. I think that would be a pretty standard clause to have in any multi-year loan deal.

You mean at the end of the 2020 season for Russell?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:10 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
So the only reason Hulkenberg wouldn't already have signed with Haas is that he fancies a shot at that second Red Bull seat.

On that basis - and assuming Haas would rather sign Hulk than retain Grosjean - then it doesn't really hurt either Hulk or Haas to wait a little. If the Red Bull option doesn't transpire then they can do a deal then, and if Hulk did end up at Red Bull, Haas would still have the option of retaining Grosjean (who Steiner said was one of the three candidates) or even taking whichever of Albon/Gasly/Kvyat get dropped by Red Bull to make room for Hulk.



Yeah he really should hold off going to Haas. He said on his twitter that he is hoping to find a “good solution”. Imo Haas is not a good solution for him. Will be interesting to see what he does.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:13 pm 
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Jenson's Understeer wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
It's inevitable now:
Renault - Ocon > Hulkenberg
Haas - Hulkenberg > Grosjean


I would add Grosjean > Williams for the following reasons:

1) Grosjean (and I've said this before) feels like the kind of driver who will take whatever seat he can get as long as he's still on the F1 grid
2) Even with point #1 in mind, he would actually be a smart signing for Williams. On his day he is a good midfield driver and is going to be better, short-term, than any of the F2 field.
3) If we believe what we've been told then it was Grosjean who was pushing for Haas to revert back to the Melbourne-spec car, something he did previously with (I think it was) Renault. If that is correct then Williams might benefit from having him racing for them, certainly more so than they would having Russell alongside an F1 rookie.

Williams' form in recent seasons is to have at least one pay driver so on that score Latifi I think is the favourite to replace Kubica, as for leading a team forward I'm not that convinced by Grosjean, how can someone that inconsistent really be a stable influence on a team?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:13 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
First domino has fallen for 2020. Bottas confirmed by Mercedes!


As what was most recently rumoured, so if the rumours continue to be true that would put Ocon in the Renault and the Hulk in the Haas?

Ocon has already been confirmed at Renault but Hulk is still unconfirmed.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:14 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Ocon has joined Renault as per this tweet:


Well that didn't take long. :)

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:15 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
It's inevitable now:
Renault - Ocon > Hulkenberg
Haas - Hulkenberg > Grosjean


I would add Grosjean > Williams for the following reasons:

1) Grosjean (and I've said this before) feels like the kind of driver who will take whatever seat he can get as long as he's still on the F1 grid
2) Even with point #1 in mind, he would actually be a smart signing for Williams. On his day he is a good midfield driver and is going to be better, short-term, than any of the F2 field.
3) If we believe what we've been told then it was Grosjean who was pushing for Haas to revert back to the Melbourne-spec car, something he did previously with (I think it was) Renault. If that is correct then Williams might benefit from having him racing for them, certainly more so than they would having Russell alongside an F1 rookie.

Does Grosjean have any significant backing behind him though? I get the feeling the second Williams seat isn't so much up for grabs as it is up for sale.


He traditionally came with Total backing I think. I'm not sure if that's still the case though.

Still nothing near the level of backing that someone like Latifi can bring I wouldn't have thought?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:16 pm 
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MistaVega23 wrote:
The more I think about it, a Verstappen/Hulkenberg tie-up wouldn't be too bad. Nico would finally get that shot at a podium.

I can't see Albon doing a better job than Gasly and I don't see RBR taking Kvyat back, so options for 2020 are limited for them indeed.



Dude Gasly was god awful. Albon is pretty much Kvyat’s level with probably more scope to improve. Kvyat wasn’t awful when he was at Redbull. I think Albon will be an improvement, closer to Max and able to put the car where it belongs most of the time. He’s not going to challenge Max though.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:16 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
I can't help but feel Hulk's crash in Germany ended his Renault career. Because overall he hasn't done a bad job relative to Dan (who hasn't been wowing the world either)

Yeah such things can make a difference.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:19 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
mcdo wrote:
I can't help but feel Hulk's crash in Germany ended his Renault career. Because overall he hasn't done a bad job relative to Dan (who hasn't been wowing the world either)


He's been to slow to make keeping him a no brainer. I think it's harsh but Ocon probably is the better driver, or at least will be.

Hulk now has to pray Albon is awful and Gasly looks about equal to Kvyat. Otherwise it's Haas.

Well from what we've seen the Hulk is certainly no better than Ocon, whilst Ocon is a lot younger and French to boot.

In respect to were the Hulk now goes, this is the domino affect we expected from recent rumours that will see the Hulk announced as a Haas driver next week at Monza.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:23 pm 
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Covalent wrote:
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
First domino has fallen for 2020. Bottas confirmed by Mercedes!


As what was most recently rumoured, so if the rumours continue to be true that would put Ocon in the Renault and the Hulk in the Haas?

Ocon has already been confirmed at Renault but Hulk is still unconfirmed.

Yeah I had not seen that when I posted.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:17 pm 
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kleefton wrote:
MistaVega23 wrote:
The more I think about it, a Verstappen/Hulkenberg tie-up wouldn't be too bad. Nico would finally get that shot at a podium.

I can't see Albon doing a better job than Gasly and I don't see RBR taking Kvyat back, so options for 2020 are limited for them indeed.



Dude Gasly was god awful. Albon is pretty much Kvyat’s level with probably more scope to improve. Kvyat wasn’t awful when he was at Redbull. I think Albon will be an improvement, closer to Max and able to put the car where it belongs most of the time. He’s not going to challenge Max though.

I meant relative to Max. I see this as a Benetton '94-type season where Max is killing it at the front and yet no one else can drive that car. I hope I'm wrong though.

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:40 pm 
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So that's it for Hulk then. Like Perez, he will never get that top drive. I think a move to Haas is pretty much inevitable now and then it's just a matter of how long he can hang on in F1. He clearly is a talented driver but he just never managed to make something truly special happen in the races. No podiums in almost a decade speaks volumes.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:52 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
So that's it for Hulk then. Like Perez, he will never get that top drive. I think a move to Haas is pretty much inevitable now and then it's just a matter of how long he can hang on in F1. He clearly is a talented driver but he just never managed to make something truly special happen in the races. No podiums in almost a decade speaks volumes.


I would say it's worse than that. Every time something special looked like it may happen he threw it away. Hulk was unfortunate to come into F1 just before big teams had junior drivers. By the time he was ready for his chance top teams only hired WDC's or their own junior drivers.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:35 pm 
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https://streamable.com/at7a8
Steiner said that Kevin is confirmed. There were some speculations about him. Now it's over.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:39 pm 
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K.F. wrote:
https://streamable.com/at7a8
Steiner said that Kevin is confirmed. There were some speculations about him. Now it's over.

I though that KMag always had a contract for 2020?

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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 4:43 pm 
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I think as an option only for 2020. That was not sure if he'll stay.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:31 pm 
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Ocon being on a two year deal at Renault while Bottas is on a one year deal at Merc is interesting. Perhaps there are all sorts of clauses involved like an option for Merc to take Ocon back after one year if they don't re-sign Bottas again or something.

Or perhaps Mercedes are banking on someone else entirely becoming available for 2021.


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 Post subject: Re: Silly Season 2020!
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:48 pm 
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BMWSauber84 wrote:
Ocon being on a two year deal at Renault while Bottas is on a one year deal at Merc is interesting. Perhaps there are all sorts of clauses involved like an option for Merc to take Ocon back after one year if they don't re-sign Bottas again or something.

Or perhaps Mercedes are banking on someone else entirely becoming available for 2021.


Unless Ocon turns out be absolutely brilliant, he won't drive for Mercedes IMO. I reckon their idea is now to get Russell to be in the car for 2021.


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