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Silly Season 2020 (Kubica joins Alfa Romeo)!
http://forum.planet-f1.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15520
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Author:  F1 Racer [ Fri Oct 11, 2019 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
It seems unfathomable that the Hulk could be out of a seat, but I'm now struggling to see where he'll get in.


Wow, why?

It's not like it's Verstappen, Hamilton or Leclerc that can't find a drive here. That would be unfathomable.

The Hulk has been mostly making up the numbers his entire grand prix career, so why is it so hard to understand or comprehend that someone in Hulk's position, with very little cold hard results to show for his long career to date, would be the kind of driver making way for new drivers coming through?

His teammates frequently best him and, while he has never had a podium finish, his teammates have had several over the years. At some point the results needed to come. It's miraculous that he made it this far in some ways. Is he F1 caliber? Sure he is, but he's no longer young and he does not have the resume to guarantee anything. He's neither a guy that you can hire to win you a championship (like Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen, etc.) not is he a young driver with a lot of potential. It's like a big game of musical chairs and he just got caught out when the music stopped.


I think he's a top 10 driver on the grid so for us it's a shame to lose him but for him I sort of see this as a good scenario.

If anything implodes at Ferrari or Red Bull he's got a very good chance of that seat. At this point in his career I doubt he has much to gain by spending yet another midfield year at a team like Alfa or Haas so it's worth waiting it out.

If that doesn't come off there's a hell of a lot of fun a millionaire in his early 30s could have in a year off.



No it's not a shame for us to lose him. Even if he is top 10, then he is only just sneaking in there at best in 9th or 10th place, and it's not like F1 has 100 drivers in it and top 10 is in the top 10%. Being 10th best F1 driver means that you are only at the 50th percentile which is nothing worth mentioning.

I doubt he even is 9th or 10th either, I'm just trying to give you the benefit of the doubt about the notion of him being 'top 10', and even with doing so it is not a shame for us to lose a driver that is middle of the road and mundane with no spice or ability to spring a surprise result out of the hat. He's not even that interesting personality-wise, about the only fun thing he did was to get Magnussen to make the 'balls' comment. Hulk is boring and we should be well shot of him.

Author:  kleefton [ Fri Oct 11, 2019 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

sandman1347 wrote:
F1 Racer wrote:
BMWSauber84 wrote:
It seems unfathomable that the Hulk could be out of a seat, but I'm now struggling to see where he'll get in.


Wow, why?

It's not like it's Verstappen, Hamilton or Leclerc that can't find a drive here. That would be unfathomable.

The Hulk has been mostly making up the numbers his entire grand prix career, so why is it so hard to understand or comprehend that someone in Hulk's position, with very little cold hard results to show for his long career to date, would be the kind of driver making way for new drivers coming through?

His teammates frequently best him and, while he has never had a podium finish, his teammates have had several over the years. At some point the results needed to come. It's miraculous that he made it this far in some ways. Is he F1 caliber? Sure he is, but he's no longer young and he does not have the resume to guarantee anything. He's neither a guy that you can hire to win you a championship (like Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen, etc.) not is he a young driver with a lot of potential. It's like a big game of musical chairs and he just got caught out when the music stopped.



I think that's a pretty unfair assessment to be honest. Hulk had never been outqualified by a teammate until Ricciardo came along. He has put a midfield car on pole, could have won that race in Brazil 2012 had he not collided with Hamilton, could have had a bunch of podiums if it wasn't for bad luck. Some of that luck was due to him, no doubt, but he has shown that he is plenty quick enough, if not slightly too erratic. But the guy is clearly a talented f1 driver. He is better than more than half the grid for sure. Not a first tier driver but his talent combined with his experience should serve a top team well. So to me it's a shame he never got a shot at a top car whereas the likes of Bottas and Massa did. Those two aren't any better than him, and likely are worse. Personally I think he's done enough work in the midfield and should only accept a top drive at this point or find a new series.

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Mon Nov 04, 2019 5:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

As per unofficial reports, Hulk is switching over to DTM for 2020. Williams & Alfa Romeo were his only options & neither of them looks realistic. An announcement relating to this should be made on Tuesday. Sad he never achieved the success which he achieved in lower formulae.

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/700595/Reports_Hulkenberg_moving_to_DTM_confirmation_on_Tuesday_after_American_GP/?fbclid=IwAR0ls6UT8vC44ECwX6O0eI05TXyK6xxlHp_ZyIzaJY-y_-7G1DKyBkm1Fvg#.Xb-wyuO19gE.facebook

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Mon Nov 04, 2019 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

Alfa Romeo confirm Giovinazzi for 2020.
https://www.sauber-group.com/motorsport/f1-news/alfa-romeo-racing-and-antonio-giovinazzi-to-continue-together-in-2020/

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

Albon (understandably) has been confirmed as Verstappen's team-mate for 2020.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-7676481/Alex-Albon-earns-permanent-Red-Bull-seat-2020-F1-season-impressing.html

Which also brings in Toro Rosso's line-up announcement of Kvyat & Gasly:
https://f1i.com/news/361396-toro-rosso-to-continue-with-gasly-and-kvyat-in-2020.html

Author:  pokerman [ Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

UnlikeUday wrote:
As per unofficial reports, Hulk is switching over to DTM for 2020. Williams & Alfa Romeo were his only options & neither of them looks realistic. An announcement relating to this should be made on Tuesday. Sad he never achieved the success which he achieved in lower formulae.

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/700595/Reports_Hulkenberg_moving_to_DTM_confirmation_on_Tuesday_after_American_GP/?fbclid=IwAR0ls6UT8vC44ECwX6O0eI05TXyK6xxlHp_ZyIzaJY-y_-7G1DKyBkm1Fvg#.Xb-wyuO19gE.facebook

A top 10 driver but not top tier, Ricciardo seemed to have the beating of him this year, apparently he could have stayed in F1 but somewhat overvalued his worth.

Author:  pokerman [ Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

UnlikeUday wrote:

Giovinazzi really needs to be beating Kimi next year, rookie excuses don't last long.

Author:  pokerman [ Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

UnlikeUday wrote:
Albon (understandably) has been confirmed as Verstappen's team-mate for 2020.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/formulaone/article-7676481/Alex-Albon-earns-permanent-Red-Bull-seat-2020-F1-season-impressing.html

Which also brings in Toro Rosso's line-up announcement of Kvyat & Gasly:
https://f1i.com/news/361396-toro-rosso-to-continue-with-gasly-and-kvyat-in-2020.html

Albon is the best choice for Red Bull, he seems to be mentally stronger than Gasly and Kvyat, also I can see next year being Kvyat's last season in F1 if he can't beat Gasly.

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

This also unofficially confirms Hulk is out of F1 in 2020!

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

It kind of relates to 2020 (lineup) so putting this here.

Mercedes & Renault have made an agreement to release Ocon from Mercedes camp & be a part of the Renault team from 2nd December onwards when the 2 days of post-season testing begin.

https://www.gptoday.net/en/news/f1/252465/ocon-to-take-part-in-post-season-abu-dhabi-test-with-renault

Author:  pokerman [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 5:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

UnlikeUday wrote:
It kind of relates to 2020 (lineup) so putting this here.

Mercedes & Renault have made an agreement to release Ocon from Mercedes camp & be a part of the Renault team from 2nd December onwards when the 2 days of post-season testing begin.

https://www.gptoday.net/en/news/f1/252465/ocon-to-take-part-in-post-season-abu-dhabi-test-with-renault

I thought that might happen.

Author:  paulsf1fix [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

I was reading on another F1 news site today that Hulkenberg was offered a years extension at Renault but choose not to re-sign as he thought he was heading to Red Bull.

Esteban Ocon has been released after his reserve driver duties after the Abu Dhabi race so that he can test for Renault earlier than planned.

George Russell will instead do the 2020 Pirelli test for Mercedes and that Nicholas Latifi will test for Williams as he could get announced for the Williams drive soon. All 2020 drivers are confirmed apart from the 2nd Williams seat.

Author:  paulsf1fix [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

Shame Hulkenberg doesnt wanna do Sim and reserve driver duties next year, there's an opening at Mercedes. ;)

Author:  pokerman [ Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

paulsf1fix wrote:
I was reading on another F1 news site today that Hulkenberg was offered a years extension at Renault but choose not to re-sign as he thought he was heading to Red Bull.

Esteban Ocon has been released after his reserve driver duties after the Abu Dhabi race so that he can test for Renault earlier than planned.

George Russell will instead do the 2020 Pirelli test for Mercedes and that Nicholas Latifi will test for Williams as he could get announced for the Williams drive soon. All 2020 drivers are confirmed apart from the 2nd Williams seat.

I heard differently that the Hulk refused the 1 year contract with Renault because he wanted a 2 year contract.

In regards to Latifi he hasn't got the required amount of F1 super license points yet which is probably delaying the announcement, there is still 1 round to go in F2.

Author:  Jenson's Understeer [ Thu Nov 21, 2019 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

pokerman wrote:
paulsf1fix wrote:
I was reading on another F1 news site today that Hulkenberg was offered a years extension at Renault but choose not to re-sign as he thought he was heading to Red Bull.

Esteban Ocon has been released after his reserve driver duties after the Abu Dhabi race so that he can test for Renault earlier than planned.

George Russell will instead do the 2020 Pirelli test for Mercedes and that Nicholas Latifi will test for Williams as he could get announced for the Williams drive soon. All 2020 drivers are confirmed apart from the 2nd Williams seat.

I heard differently that the Hulk refused the 1 year contract with Renault because he wanted a 2 year contract.

In regards to Latifi he hasn't got the required amount of F1 super license points yet which is probably delaying the announcement, there is still 1 round to go in F2.


The lowest he can finish in F2 this year is 5th. Add that to his 5th place finish in 2017 and he'll be guaranteed to reach the 40 points required (44, to be precise, with his 9th last year). So it's nothing to do with Latifi potentially not getting a Superlicense.

Author:  pokerman [ Thu Nov 21, 2019 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

Jenson's Understeer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
paulsf1fix wrote:
I was reading on another F1 news site today that Hulkenberg was offered a years extension at Renault but choose not to re-sign as he thought he was heading to Red Bull.

Esteban Ocon has been released after his reserve driver duties after the Abu Dhabi race so that he can test for Renault earlier than planned.

George Russell will instead do the 2020 Pirelli test for Mercedes and that Nicholas Latifi will test for Williams as he could get announced for the Williams drive soon. All 2020 drivers are confirmed apart from the 2nd Williams seat.

I heard differently that the Hulk refused the 1 year contract with Renault because he wanted a 2 year contract.

In regards to Latifi he hasn't got the required amount of F1 super license points yet which is probably delaying the announcement, there is still 1 round to go in F2.


The lowest he can finish in F2 this year is 5th. Add that to his 5th place finish in 2017 and he'll be guaranteed to reach the 40 points required (44, to be precise, with his 9th last year). So it's nothing to do with Latifi potentially not getting a Superlicense.

I know but officially he still doesn't have a F1 super license, I can't see any other reason for delaying his announcement?

Author:  Jenson's Understeer [ Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

pokerman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I heard differently that the Hulk refused the 1 year contract with Renault because he wanted a 2 year contract.

In regards to Latifi he hasn't got the required amount of F1 super license points yet which is probably delaying the announcement, there is still 1 round to go in F2.


The lowest he can finish in F2 this year is 5th. Add that to his 5th place finish in 2017 and he'll be guaranteed to reach the 40 points required (44, to be precise, with his 9th last year). So it's nothing to do with Latifi potentially not getting a Superlicense.

I know but officially he still doesn't have a F1 super license, I can't see any other reason for delaying his announcement?


I was thinking about this earlier. The only reasons I can come up with are:

1) Williams want to run him in the post season test and then make a decision. This wouldn't make sense because they've run him enough to have a pretty good idea whether they want him or not and, more to the point, there aren't any better options (realistic ones, anyway) available. Unless...
2) Nico Hulkenberg hasn't completely closed the door on them, despite what has been said publicly. Maybe there has been a renewed push from within the team to try and make that deal happen after all?
3) There is something sponsor-related holding up the deal.
4) Williams simply want to wait until the season is over so that when they announce it, there aren't any other F1 stories going on to detract from it.

#1 doesn't make sense, #2 is - let's be honest - very unlikely, so #3 or #4 would seem to be the most logical explanations.

Author:  pokerman [ Thu Nov 21, 2019 2:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

Jenson's Understeer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
pokerman wrote:
I heard differently that the Hulk refused the 1 year contract with Renault because he wanted a 2 year contract.

In regards to Latifi he hasn't got the required amount of F1 super license points yet which is probably delaying the announcement, there is still 1 round to go in F2.


The lowest he can finish in F2 this year is 5th. Add that to his 5th place finish in 2017 and he'll be guaranteed to reach the 40 points required (44, to be precise, with his 9th last year). So it's nothing to do with Latifi potentially not getting a Superlicense.

I know but officially he still doesn't have a F1 super license, I can't see any other reason for delaying his announcement?


I was thinking about this earlier. The only reasons I can come up with are:

1) Williams want to run him in the post season test and then make a decision. This wouldn't make sense because they've run him enough to have a pretty good idea whether they want him or not and, more to the point, there aren't any better options (realistic ones, anyway) available. Unless...
2) Nico Hulkenberg hasn't completely closed the door on them, despite what has been said publicly. Maybe there has been a renewed push from within the team to try and make that deal happen after all?
3) There is something sponsor-related holding up the deal.
4) Williams simply want to wait until the season is over so that when they announce it, there aren't any other F1 stories going on to detract from it.

#1 doesn't make sense, #2 is - let's be honest - very unlikely, so #3 or #4 would seem to be the most logical explanations.

It's interesting that you mention the Hulk because it's something that's slipped my mind, I did hear said that Williams were not overly impressed with Latifi and might consider the Hulk, but that would be a big financial discrepancy turning down Latifi's money and then paying the Hulk, that's not really how they've operated these past few years.

As for the Hulk would that appeal to him, I guess it's a paid drive and more money than what he would get elsewheres but then again he turned down a paid contract at Renault because it was for only 1 year and supposedly he turned down Haas because they didn't offer him enough money.

Maybe that was the Hulk playing hard ball and it went wrong both times, now it's getting so late in the day that it s a take it or nothing situation in F1, does he really want to be out of F1?

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Fri Nov 22, 2019 11:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

As per reports, Kubica who was in the fight to become a reserve/test driver for either Haas or Racing Point for 2020, will opt for Racing Point. Along with Kubica, Kubica's sponsor PKN-Orlen will too move ship to Racing Point. Kubica's experience will be utilized in making the car better to help fight in a super tight midfield.
https://www.gptoday.net/en/news/f1/252501/kubica-set-for-racing-point-test-and-reserve-role

Author:  Banana Man [ Fri Nov 22, 2019 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

Markelov will compete in F2 next year.













For the seventh time. :?

Author:  Black_Flag_11 [ Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

Banana Man wrote:
Markelov will compete in F2 next year.

For the seventh time. :?

It's a shame he doesn't seem to have the speed for F1 because he is one of the most exciting drivers to watch and has such talent when it comes to wheel to wheel racing.

Have to say I'm happy he's back.

Author:  Exediron [ Sat Nov 23, 2019 8:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

Black_Flag_11 wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
Markelov will compete in F2 next year.

For the seventh time. :?

It's a shame he doesn't seem to have the speed for F1 because he is one of the most exciting drivers to watch and has such talent when it comes to wheel to wheel racing.

Have to say I'm happy he's back.

Yeah, I kind of feel the same. F2 isn't the same without ARTEM MARKELOV out there saving his tyres and pulling off moves.

Author:  Banana Man [ Sat Nov 23, 2019 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

That's basically just because hes been racing those cars and tyres since the beginning of time. I'd expect him to know them inside out, compared to some 19 year old F3 rookie.

To be honest it's just a bit sad to me. Like being the 'smartest' kid in year 6 at school and getting the highest grades, because you've resat the year twice and you remember all the exam papers. All the drivers he made his 2014 debut against (except Latifi) have long since moved on.

Author:  Exediron [ Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

Banana Man wrote:
That's basically just because hes been racing those cars and tyres since the beginning of time. I'd expect him to know them inside out, compared to some 19 year old F3 rookie.

To be honest it's just a bit sad to me. Like being the 'smartest' kid in year 6 at school and getting the highest grades, because you've resat the year twice and you remember all the exam papers. All the drivers he made his 2014 debut against (except Latifi) have long since moved on.

Oh, he's absolutely a lifer in F2. I just don't see anything wrong with that. We've never had a situation where there are hot prospects trying to get into F2 who simply can't because there aren't seats available (unlike F1), so what's the harm? He's entertaining, and a good benchmark for the truly good drivers. If you can beat Markelov despite his vast experience advantage, you're the real deal.

Author:  Paolo_Lasardi [ Sat Nov 23, 2019 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

7 years in F2? And that is the top feeder category? Really? Seriously?

Author:  mikeyg123 [ Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

Exediron wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
That's basically just because hes been racing those cars and tyres since the beginning of time. I'd expect him to know them inside out, compared to some 19 year old F3 rookie.

To be honest it's just a bit sad to me. Like being the 'smartest' kid in year 6 at school and getting the highest grades, because you've resat the year twice and you remember all the exam papers. All the drivers he made his 2014 debut against (except Latifi) have long since moved on.

Oh, he's absolutely a lifer in F2. I just don't see anything wrong with that. We've never had a situation where there are hot prospects trying to get into F2 who simply can't because there aren't seats available (unlike F1), so what's the harm? He's entertaining, and a good benchmark for the truly good drivers. If you can beat Markelov despite his vast experience advantage, you're the real deal.


Actually we have. Frijns, Wickens etc. F2 is massively expensive.

Author:  Jenson's Understeer [ Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

Exediron wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
That's basically just because hes been racing those cars and tyres since the beginning of time. I'd expect him to know them inside out, compared to some 19 year old F3 rookie.

To be honest it's just a bit sad to me. Like being the 'smartest' kid in year 6 at school and getting the highest grades, because you've resat the year twice and you remember all the exam papers. All the drivers he made his 2014 debut against (except Latifi) have long since moved on.

Oh, he's absolutely a lifer in F2. I just don't see anything wrong with that. We've never had a situation where there are hot prospects trying to get into F2 who simply can't because there aren't seats available (unlike F1), so what's the harm? He's entertaining, and a good benchmark for the truly good drivers. If you can beat Markelov despite his vast experience advantage, you're the real deal.


That's one way of looking at it, I suppose, but I completely disagree. The point of F2 is to give young drivers their final preparation and evaluation before F1. Leclerc and Russell weren't anointed as future F1 stars because they beat Markelov; it was because they came into the series as rookies, immediately adapted and were immediately successful. F2 doesn't need guys like Markelov there to help identify what is going to be completely apparent anyway. F1 teams aren't going to suddenly go, "Wow, look at this Markelov guy, fighting for the F2 title! Where did he come from? Let's sign him for 2021!" They're all fully aware of him, what he can do, and the fact that only one of them (Williams) actually considering signing him at the end of 2018 (after two seasons in the top five) speaks volumes.

Stick a four, maybe even three season maximum on the series and be done with it already. As I've previously documented, drivers who need four+ seasons to fight for the title are usually getting there purely because of experience and, if they do get an F1 seat, are quickly exposed as such.

Author:  JN23 [ Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
That's basically just because hes been racing those cars and tyres since the beginning of time. I'd expect him to know them inside out, compared to some 19 year old F3 rookie.

To be honest it's just a bit sad to me. Like being the 'smartest' kid in year 6 at school and getting the highest grades, because you've resat the year twice and you remember all the exam papers. All the drivers he made his 2014 debut against (except Latifi) have long since moved on.

Oh, he's absolutely a lifer in F2. I just don't see anything wrong with that. We've never had a situation where there are hot prospects trying to get into F2 who simply can't because there aren't seats available (unlike F1), so what's the harm? He's entertaining, and a good benchmark for the truly good drivers. If you can beat Markelov despite his vast experience advantage, you're the real deal.


That's one way of looking at it, I suppose, but I completely disagree. The point of F2 is to give young drivers their final preparation and evaluation before F1. Leclerc and Russell weren't anointed as future F1 stars because they beat Markelov; it was because they came into the series as rookies, immediately adapted and were immediately successful. F2 doesn't need guys like Markelov there to help identify what is going to be completely apparent anyway. F1 teams aren't going to suddenly go, "Wow, look at this Markelov guy, fighting for the F2 title! Where did he come from? Let's sign him for 2021!" They're all fully aware of him, what he can do, and the fact that only one of them (Williams) actually considering signing him at the end of 2018 (after two seasons in the top five) speaks volumes.

Stick a four, maybe even three season maximum on the series and be done with it already. As I've previously documented, drivers who need four+ seasons to fight for the title are usually getting there purely because of experience and, if they do get an F1 seat, are quickly exposed as such.


Doesn’t look good for Latifi then does it.

Author:  tootsie323 [ Sun Nov 24, 2019 1:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

Su unless I'm mistaken: should Markelov actually win the F2 title, that's his career up in smoke..?

Author:  Jenson's Understeer [ Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

JN23 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
That's basically just because hes been racing those cars and tyres since the beginning of time. I'd expect him to know them inside out, compared to some 19 year old F3 rookie.

To be honest it's just a bit sad to me. Like being the 'smartest' kid in year 6 at school and getting the highest grades, because you've resat the year twice and you remember all the exam papers. All the drivers he made his 2014 debut against (except Latifi) have long since moved on.

Oh, he's absolutely a lifer in F2. I just don't see anything wrong with that. We've never had a situation where there are hot prospects trying to get into F2 who simply can't because there aren't seats available (unlike F1), so what's the harm? He's entertaining, and a good benchmark for the truly good drivers. If you can beat Markelov despite his vast experience advantage, you're the real deal.


That's one way of looking at it, I suppose, but I completely disagree. The point of F2 is to give young drivers their final preparation and evaluation before F1. Leclerc and Russell weren't anointed as future F1 stars because they beat Markelov; it was because they came into the series as rookies, immediately adapted and were immediately successful. F2 doesn't need guys like Markelov there to help identify what is going to be completely apparent anyway. F1 teams aren't going to suddenly go, "Wow, look at this Markelov guy, fighting for the F2 title! Where did he come from? Let's sign him for 2021!" They're all fully aware of him, what he can do, and the fact that only one of them (Williams) actually considering signing him at the end of 2018 (after two seasons in the top five) speaks volumes.

Stick a four, maybe even three season maximum on the series and be done with it already. As I've previously documented, drivers who need four+ seasons to fight for the title are usually getting there purely because of experience and, if they do get an F1 seat, are quickly exposed as such.


Doesn’t look good for Latifi then does it.


Based on previous years I would say no, it really doesn't. The fact that he hasn't even won the title (and could yet finish as low as 5th) makes me expect that Russell will absolutely destroy him next year, probably every bit as much as he has Kubica.

Author:  Jenson's Understeer [ Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

tootsie323 wrote:
Su unless I'm mistaken: should Markelov actually win the F2 title, that's his career up in smoke..?


His F1 'career'? Yes. And honestly, even if he win the F2 title, I'd still be quite surprised to see him graduate to F1 in 2021. The best chance he had was after he finished 2nd in 2017. It didn't happen then, nor after he followed that up with a 5th place finish in the 2018 series. So I'd be surprised if him winning the title in 2020 on the back of substantially more experience than his competitors would really cause F1 teams to sit up and take notice.

Author:  Exediron [ Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Oh, he's absolutely a lifer in F2. I just don't see anything wrong with that. We've never had a situation where there are hot prospects trying to get into F2 who simply can't because there aren't seats available (unlike F1), so what's the harm? He's entertaining, and a good benchmark for the truly good drivers. If you can beat Markelov despite his vast experience advantage, you're the real deal.

That's one way of looking at it, I suppose, but I completely disagree. The point of F2 is to give young drivers their final preparation and evaluation before F1. Leclerc and Russell weren't anointed as future F1 stars because they beat Markelov; it was because they came into the series as rookies, immediately adapted and were immediately successful. F2 doesn't need guys like Markelov there to help identify what is going to be completely apparent anyway. F1 teams aren't going to suddenly go, "Wow, look at this Markelov guy, fighting for the F2 title! Where did he come from? Let's sign him for 2021!" They're all fully aware of him, what he can do, and the fact that only one of them (Williams) actually considering signing him at the end of 2018 (after two seasons in the top five) speaks volumes.

Stick a four, maybe even three season maximum on the series and be done with it already. As I've previously documented, drivers who need four+ seasons to fight for the title are usually getting there purely because of experience and, if they do get an F1 seat, are quickly exposed as such.

As you say, I suppose that's one way of looking at it. I realize the FIA has tried their hardest to turn all of the European Formula series into a direct feeder ladder for F1, but to me it's unrealistic and unsustainable to have all these different racing series positioned into a pyramid aiming at perhaps 20 seats, no more than 2-3 of which are actually available at any time. There will never be a time when every F2 seat is filled by someone with a genuine chance of going into F1. That would be like saying that junior leagues exist to find the stars of the NHL, so only players with a legitimate shot at making an NHL roster should be allowed to play in them. There just aren't enough of them at any one time.

The big budgets needed to compete in F1 are a problem, but they're a separate problem. Frijns and Wickens weren't driven out of F2 by someone like Markelov, they were driven out by the basic nature of racing budgets. That needs fixing, but the solution isn't to ban drivers after four years. You'd just have different pay drivers, not a field of promising young chargers destined for F1.

Author:  pokerman [ Mon Nov 25, 2019 10:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

JN23 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
That's basically just because hes been racing those cars and tyres since the beginning of time. I'd expect him to know them inside out, compared to some 19 year old F3 rookie.

To be honest it's just a bit sad to me. Like being the 'smartest' kid in year 6 at school and getting the highest grades, because you've resat the year twice and you remember all the exam papers. All the drivers he made his 2014 debut against (except Latifi) have long since moved on.

Oh, he's absolutely a lifer in F2. I just don't see anything wrong with that. We've never had a situation where there are hot prospects trying to get into F2 who simply can't because there aren't seats available (unlike F1), so what's the harm? He's entertaining, and a good benchmark for the truly good drivers. If you can beat Markelov despite his vast experience advantage, you're the real deal.


That's one way of looking at it, I suppose, but I completely disagree. The point of F2 is to give young drivers their final preparation and evaluation before F1. Leclerc and Russell weren't anointed as future F1 stars because they beat Markelov; it was because they came into the series as rookies, immediately adapted and were immediately successful. F2 doesn't need guys like Markelov there to help identify what is going to be completely apparent anyway. F1 teams aren't going to suddenly go, "Wow, look at this Markelov guy, fighting for the F2 title! Where did he come from? Let's sign him for 2021!" They're all fully aware of him, what he can do, and the fact that only one of them (Williams) actually considering signing him at the end of 2018 (after two seasons in the top five) speaks volumes.

Stick a four, maybe even three season maximum on the series and be done with it already. As I've previously documented, drivers who need four+ seasons to fight for the title are usually getting there purely because of experience and, if they do get an F1 seat, are quickly exposed as such.


Doesn’t look good for Latifi then does it.

Well I guess we have to look upon Latifi as being another Stroll, he's competent enough but very much buying a seat in F1.

Author:  pokerman [ Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

tootsie323 wrote:
Su unless I'm mistaken: should Markelov actually win the F2 title, that's his career up in smoke..?

Unless his sponsors have said if you win F2 then we buy you a seat in F1?

Author:  pokerman [ Mon Nov 25, 2019 11:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

Jenson's Understeer wrote:
JN23 wrote:
Jenson's Understeer wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Banana Man wrote:
That's basically just because hes been racing those cars and tyres since the beginning of time. I'd expect him to know them inside out, compared to some 19 year old F3 rookie.

To be honest it's just a bit sad to me. Like being the 'smartest' kid in year 6 at school and getting the highest grades, because you've resat the year twice and you remember all the exam papers. All the drivers he made his 2014 debut against (except Latifi) have long since moved on.

Oh, he's absolutely a lifer in F2. I just don't see anything wrong with that. We've never had a situation where there are hot prospects trying to get into F2 who simply can't because there aren't seats available (unlike F1), so what's the harm? He's entertaining, and a good benchmark for the truly good drivers. If you can beat Markelov despite his vast experience advantage, you're the real deal.


That's one way of looking at it, I suppose, but I completely disagree. The point of F2 is to give young drivers their final preparation and evaluation before F1. Leclerc and Russell weren't anointed as future F1 stars because they beat Markelov; it was because they came into the series as rookies, immediately adapted and were immediately successful. F2 doesn't need guys like Markelov there to help identify what is going to be completely apparent anyway. F1 teams aren't going to suddenly go, "Wow, look at this Markelov guy, fighting for the F2 title! Where did he come from? Let's sign him for 2021!" They're all fully aware of him, what he can do, and the fact that only one of them (Williams) actually considering signing him at the end of 2018 (after two seasons in the top five) speaks volumes.

Stick a four, maybe even three season maximum on the series and be done with it already. As I've previously documented, drivers who need four+ seasons to fight for the title are usually getting there purely because of experience and, if they do get an F1 seat, are quickly exposed as such.


Doesn’t look good for Latifi then does it.


Based on previous years I would say no, it really doesn't. The fact that he hasn't even won the title (and could yet finish as low as 5th) makes me expect that Russell will absolutely destroy him next year, probably every bit as much as he has Kubica.

...or like he did last year in F2 and Russell was a rookie to boot?

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Thu Nov 28, 2019 7:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020!

First time heard this!

Latifi confirmed as Russell's teammate for 2020.
https://www.williamsf1.com/racing/news/2019/11/rokit-williams-racing-confirms-nicholas-latifi-as-race-driver-for-2020

Author:  Exediron [ Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020 (Grid lineup now complete)!

Russell 20-0 incoming for next year... 8)

Author:  UnlikeUday [ Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020 (Grid lineup now complete)!

2020 lineup in a nutshell:

Image
Source - Imgur

Author:  Tufty [ Fri Nov 29, 2019 3:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020 (Grid lineup now complete)!

Got to admit, this is one of the most boring silly seasons we've had in a while. Aside from the loss of Hulkenberg from the grid, basically everything stayed the same. Kubica may be included if he proves later it was just the car holding him back. But I think both drivers' replacements are going to lose the teammate wars.

Author:  Altair [ Fri Nov 29, 2019 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Silly Season 2020 (Grid lineup now complete)!

3 Brits

3 Frenchmen

2 Canucks

2 Finns

1 Dutch

1 German

1 Mexican

1 Monégasque

1 Thai

1 Dane

1 Aussie

1 Italian

1 Russian

1 Spaniard

Long way of saying go Canada!

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