planetf1.com

It is currently Wed Aug 21, 2019 3:57 pm

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:08 pm
Posts: 1664
mikeyg123 wrote:
babararacucudada wrote:
I think it is a worthwhile thread. There are many things wrong with the current F1. I consider fiddling around and not tackling the real core problems is what the FIA and the owners have been doing, and so actually trying to fix F1 requires what could be considered radical ideas - yet those could actualy be sensible ideas that would result in a better F1.

eg. Stewards.
It is fairly obvious that if you hire different non-professional stewards for each Grand Prix, you are not going to get consistent interpretation of the rules.
There is also the question of interference in the stewards decisions by the owners or the FIA to try to keep the World Championship contest alive for as long into each year as they can.

What they need is an FIA that writes and interprets the rules, and has the same professional stewards employed by the FIA at each race.


Would having professional stewards who solely relied on F1 for their income be a lot more susceptible to FIA influence than the current set up? I.E do what we say or you may be out of a job rather than do what we say or we won't ask you again next year.

It would give the FIA a lot more leverage for manipulation.


A different FIA is also part of the solution.

The FIA need to be in charge of steering the sport. They have to write rules that create good race cars that suit the racing circuits and require the best drivers to make the biggest difference on who wins. They also have to write rules that keep the sport competitive and can be policed by the FIA, and they have to be responsible for the integrity of the Sport of F1.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:16 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 7616
babararacucudada wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
babararacucudada wrote:
I think it is a worthwhile thread. There are many things wrong with the current F1. I consider fiddling around and not tackling the real core problems is what the FIA and the owners have been doing, and so actually trying to fix F1 requires what could be considered radical ideas - yet those could actualy be sensible ideas that would result in a better F1.

eg. Stewards.
It is fairly obvious that if you hire different non-professional stewards for each Grand Prix, you are not going to get consistent interpretation of the rules.
There is also the question of interference in the stewards decisions by the owners or the FIA to try to keep the World Championship contest alive for as long into each year as they can.

What they need is an FIA that writes and interprets the rules, and has the same professional stewards employed by the FIA at each race.


Would having professional stewards who solely relied on F1 for their income be a lot more susceptible to FIA influence than the current set up? I.E do what we say or you may be out of a job rather than do what we say or we won't ask you again next year.

It would give the FIA a lot more leverage for manipulation.


A different FIA is also part of the solution.


The FIA need to be in charge of steering the sport. They have to write rules that create good race cars that suit the racing circuits and require the best drivers to make the biggest difference on who wins. They also have to write rules that keep the sport competitive and can be policed by the FIA, and they have to be responsible for the integrity of the Sport of F1.


I was wondering how that would be under Vatanen a decade ago...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:06 am
Posts: 7758
Location: Belgium
babararacucudada wrote:
Stewards.
It is fairly obvious that if you hire different non-professional stewards for each Grand Prix, you are not going to get consistent interpretation of the rules.
There is also the question of interference in the stewards decisions by the owners or the FIA to try to keep the World Championship contest alive for as long into each year as they can.

What they need is an FIA that writes and interprets the rules, and has the same professional stewards employed by the FIA at each race.
All the stewards are super-licence holders. The FIA already write the rules. Whether they should be more or less open to interpretation is debatable. What we don't really know is how the drivers view the rules, or how they debate them with the FIA or within the GPDA.

I think that having the same set of stewards at every Grand Prix of a season may be undesirable to some of the best people available. It might be possible to install a permanent team of stewards at the FIA headquarters in Paris (for example), and only have one or two representatives in place at the actual race venue. They could speak to the drivers in person, although with modern video-conferencing technology, that might not even be necessary.

_________________
Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 18, 2015 5:38 pm
Posts: 2112
Location: Miami, Florida
Bring back Gravel Traps and get rid of excessive run-off areas. Watch how quickly drivers tidy up their lines and most mistakes result in loss of position rather than maintaining position thanks to the ability to maintain speed when you veer off the track. With Gravel traps, drivers would have to lift and possibly brake in order to keep from beaching it. From there, get rid of the farce that IS Monaco. DONE!

Show improved.

_________________
HAMILTON :: ALONSO :: VETTEL :: RAIKKONEN :: RICCIARDO :: VERSTAPPEN
BOTTAS :: MAGNUSSEN :: OCON :: SAINZ :: PEREZ :: VANDOORNE :: HULKENBERG
GROSJEAN :: GASLY :: ERICSON :: LECLERC :: STROLL :: SEROTKIN :: HARTLEY


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:20 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:50 am
Posts: 1241
Location: UK
Why were they removed in the first place?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:48 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 3982
Whilst I'd love gravel traps to return, the primary reason for their removal was safety. It would take quite a change in the thoughts ,of those responsible for safety, to bring them back like they were.

_________________
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. [Lord Acton]
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:59 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15593
I'd love to bring gravel traps back. Others will disagree but I do not think safety issues should impact on the sport as much as concrete run offs have.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:04 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 3982
mikeyg123 wrote:
I'd love to bring gravel traps back. Others will disagree but I do not think safety issues should impact on the sport as much as concrete run offs have.


Tell that to those that flipped in gravel or skipped across the top and hit the barriers without hardly slowing down. The options were extensively testing by the FIA.

_________________
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. [Lord Acton]
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:17 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15593
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I'd love to bring gravel traps back. Others will disagree but I do not think safety issues should impact on the sport as much as concrete run offs have.


Tell that to those that flipped in gravel or skipped across the top and hit the barriers without hardly slowing down. The options were extensively testing by the FIA.


I would if I knew any. I'm not arguing gravel would be safer.

Safety is great. I'm all for it. But it should not be intrude on the sport IMO.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6695
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Bring back Gravel Traps and get rid of excessive run-off areas. Watch how quickly drivers tidy up their lines and most mistakes result in loss of position rather than maintaining position thanks to the ability to maintain speed when you veer off the track. With Gravel traps, drivers would have to lift and possibly brake in order to keep from beaching it. From there, get rid of the farce that IS Monaco. DONE!

Show improved.

We ask for this but then complain when a driver faces a consequence for going off the track (not you specifically - just generalizing).


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:32 am 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15593
sandman1347 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Bring back Gravel Traps and get rid of excessive run-off areas. Watch how quickly drivers tidy up their lines and most mistakes result in loss of position rather than maintaining position thanks to the ability to maintain speed when you veer off the track. With Gravel traps, drivers would have to lift and possibly brake in order to keep from beaching it. From there, get rid of the farce that IS Monaco. DONE!

Show improved.

We ask for this but then complain when a driver faces a consequence for going off the track (not you specifically - just generalizing).


Urgh yes, all the complaining about Vettel's penalty is because he lost time going off track.

Just look at what a talking point having grass there instead of tarmac created. It's not about a driver losing a prescribed amount of seconds or places. It's about drivers actually having to be precise and risk losing out if they are not.

Rather than the situation we have now where an average driver can drive like a great one because it doesn't matter if they mess up every 10th lap.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:48 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 25, 2014 9:50 am
Posts: 1241
Location: UK
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Bring back Gravel Traps and get rid of excessive run-off areas. Watch how quickly drivers tidy up their lines and most mistakes result in loss of position rather than maintaining position thanks to the ability to maintain speed when you veer off the track. With Gravel traps, drivers would have to lift and possibly brake in order to keep from beaching it. From there, get rid of the farce that IS Monaco. DONE!

Show improved.

We ask for this but then complain when a driver faces a consequence for going off the track (not you specifically - just generalizing).


Urgh yes, all the complaining about Vettel's penalty is because he lost time going off track.

Just look at what a talking point having grass there instead of tarmac created. It's not about a driver losing a prescribed amount of seconds or places. It's about drivers actually having to be precise and risk losing out if they are not.

Rather than the situation we have now where an average driver can drive like a great one because it doesn't matter if they mess up every 10th lap.


Agree with this, what is the point in designing bends, curves and chicanes if drivers effectively straighten them out, if all drivers got a 5 second penalty for leaving the track irrespective of why the Vettel issue goes away! Forced off not included.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:20 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 7141
Location: Michigan, USA
mikeyg123 wrote:
Rather than the situation we have now where an average driver can drive like a great one because it doesn't matter if they mess up every 10th lap.

That really doesn't happen anyway. Do tarmac runoffs let Gasly drive at Max's pace? No.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 9:08 pm
Posts: 1664
Option or Prime wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Bring back Gravel Traps and get rid of excessive run-off areas. Watch how quickly drivers tidy up their lines and most mistakes result in loss of position rather than maintaining position thanks to the ability to maintain speed when you veer off the track. With Gravel traps, drivers would have to lift and possibly brake in order to keep from beaching it. From there, get rid of the farce that IS Monaco. DONE!

Show improved.

We ask for this but then complain when a driver faces a consequence for going off the track (not you specifically - just generalizing).


Urgh yes, all the complaining about Vettel's penalty is because he lost time going off track.

Just look at what a talking point having grass there instead of tarmac created. It's not about a driver losing a prescribed amount of seconds or places. It's about drivers actually having to be precise and risk losing out if they are not.

Rather than the situation we have now where an average driver can drive like a great one because it doesn't matter if they mess up every 10th lap.


Agree with this, what is the point in designing bends, curves and chicanes if drivers effectively straighten them out, if all drivers got a 5 second penalty for leaving the track irrespective of why the Vettel issue goes away! Forced off not included.


That's another radical idea - racing on the race track!

I've long thought that the racing should take place on the track, and there shouldn't be any legitimate forcing another driver off the track. I remember thinking that it was a good thing that at McLaren years ago, Button and Hamilton raced each other but also let each other stay on the track. I think it should be like that all the time for all the racers. It doesn't take much skill to force another driver off the track.

It would require the tracks to be wide enough and the cars to be narrow enough to allow good racing, and they might need a cable buried in the track to be used with sensors on the cars to signal automatically that a car is 'off the track'. There would still need to be decisions made as to actions which were against the rules.

It would be a very major change for F1 and take a lot of time and money to implement.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:48 pm
Posts: 3225
Location: UK
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1 MERCENARY wrote:
Bring back Gravel Traps and get rid of excessive run-off areas. Watch how quickly drivers tidy up their lines and most mistakes result in loss of position rather than maintaining position thanks to the ability to maintain speed when you veer off the track. With Gravel traps, drivers would have to lift and possibly brake in order to keep from beaching it. From there, get rid of the farce that IS Monaco. DONE!

Show improved.

We ask for this but then complain when a driver faces a consequence for going off the track (not you specifically - just generalizing).


Urgh yes, all the complaining about Vettel's penalty is because he lost time going off track.

Just look at what a talking point having grass there instead of tarmac created. It's not about a driver losing a prescribed amount of seconds or places. It's about drivers actually having to be precise and risk losing out if they are not.

Rather than the situation we have now where an average driver can drive like a great one because it doesn't matter if they mess up every 10th lap.

Totally agree.

I remember a few years when they put a large kerb at Raidillon at Spa to deter drivers from cutting the corner. All the drivers complained it was unsafe and it was removed. They then proceeded to cut the corner repeatedly. The entire challenge of the corner was gone overnight.

There are a few corners on the calendar that do need tarmac run-off for safety reasons in case someone goes off at high speed, Raidillon incidentally being one of them. However most of them do not, and I would strongly support putting the gravel back there. Or at the very least, as has been proposed on here many times, put a few metres of gravel around the edge of the track and then tarmac beyond it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:27 am 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15593
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Rather than the situation we have now where an average driver can drive like a great one because it doesn't matter if they mess up every 10th lap.

That really doesn't happen anyway. Do tarmac runoffs let Gasly drive at Max's pace? No.


It does happen. Many drivers have spoken about how having tarmac run off completely changes how they approach driving the corner. Look how close team mates are in pace now to 20 years ago. It's a fair old difference.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 7141
Location: Michigan, USA
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Rather than the situation we have now where an average driver can drive like a great one because it doesn't matter if they mess up every 10th lap.

That really doesn't happen anyway. Do tarmac runoffs let Gasly drive at Max's pace? No.

It does happen. Many drivers have spoken about how having tarmac run off completely changes how they approach driving the corner. Look how close team mates are in pace now to 20 years ago. It's a fair old difference.

Sure, it's a difference. But a lot of that is down to how the standard of driving has improved. Do the gaps between teammates widen when we go to a track that doesn't have runoffs? My feeling is 'no'.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:01 am 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15593
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Rather than the situation we have now where an average driver can drive like a great one because it doesn't matter if they mess up every 10th lap.

That really doesn't happen anyway. Do tarmac runoffs let Gasly drive at Max's pace? No.

It does happen. Many drivers have spoken about how having tarmac run off completely changes how they approach driving the corner. Look how close team mates are in pace now to 20 years ago. It's a fair old difference.

Sure, it's a difference. But a lot of that is down to how the standard of driving has improved. Do the gaps between teammates widen when we go to a track that doesn't have runoffs? My feeling is 'no'.


Well that is only really Monaco and Baku? Are there any standard tracks that still mainly use gravel?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:34 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 7141
Location: Michigan, USA
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Rather than the situation we have now where an average driver can drive like a great one because it doesn't matter if they mess up every 10th lap.

That really doesn't happen anyway. Do tarmac runoffs let Gasly drive at Max's pace? No.

It does happen. Many drivers have spoken about how having tarmac run off completely changes how they approach driving the corner. Look how close team mates are in pace now to 20 years ago. It's a fair old difference.

Sure, it's a difference. But a lot of that is down to how the standard of driving has improved. Do the gaps between teammates widen when we go to a track that doesn't have runoffs? My feeling is 'no'.

Well that is only really Monaco and Baku? Are there any standard tracks that still mainly use gravel?

Suzuka still has plenty of gravel, off the top of my head. But even if it were only Monaco and Baku, shouldn't it be observable there?

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:38 am 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15593
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
That really doesn't happen anyway. Do tarmac runoffs let Gasly drive at Max's pace? No.

It does happen. Many drivers have spoken about how having tarmac run off completely changes how they approach driving the corner. Look how close team mates are in pace now to 20 years ago. It's a fair old difference.

Sure, it's a difference. But a lot of that is down to how the standard of driving has improved. Do the gaps between teammates widen when we go to a track that doesn't have runoffs? My feeling is 'no'.

Well that is only really Monaco and Baku? Are there any standard tracks that still mainly use gravel?

Suzuka still has plenty of gravel, off the top of my head. But even if it were only Monaco and Baku, shouldn't it be observable there?


Suzuka is tarmac now for most of the difficult corners. It possibly is with Monaco and Baku but they are so unique I think any findings could be argued away.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 5:52 am
Posts: 2802
Doesn't the Paul Ricard (Le Castallet) circuit use a form of high-abrasion surface off the circuit? It's supposedly designed to keep the cars safe but also slow them down (and increase tyre wear) as a form of 'instant' penalty for leaving the circuit.

_________________
Where I'm going, I don't need roads


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:14 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15593
tootsie323 wrote:
Doesn't the Paul Ricard (Le Castallet) circuit use a form of high-abrasion surface off the circuit? It's supposedly designed to keep the cars safe but also slow them down (and increase tyre wear) as a form of 'instant' penalty for leaving the circuit.


They do but the high abrasion stuff is miles off the circuit (It's the stuff with the red stripes rather than the blue)

The one and only issue I have with gravel is that we get a safety car come out every time there's so much a speck of dust 20 meters off the racing line these days.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 3982
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I'd love to bring gravel traps back. Others will disagree but I do not think safety issues should impact on the sport as much as concrete run offs have.


Tell that to those that flipped in gravel or skipped across the top and hit the barriers without hardly slowing down. The options were extensively testing by the FIA.


I would if I knew any. I'm not arguing gravel would be safer.

Safety is great. I'm all for it. But it should not be intrude on the sport IMO.


Safety has intruded in to Motorsport since it began. It's just that some are not as obvious to us viewers as others. We have to accept that those responsible for the safety of the drivers are doing their best to increase safety year on year whilst trying to not spoil the sport too much.

_________________
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. [Lord Acton]
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:44 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15593
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I'd love to bring gravel traps back. Others will disagree but I do not think safety issues should impact on the sport as much as concrete run offs have.


Tell that to those that flipped in gravel or skipped across the top and hit the barriers without hardly slowing down. The options were extensively testing by the FIA.


I would if I knew any. I'm not arguing gravel would be safer.

Safety is great. I'm all for it. But it should not be intrude on the sport IMO.


Safety has intruded in to Motorsport since it began. It's just that some are not as obvious to us viewers as others. We have to accept that those responsible for the safety of the drivers are doing their best to increase safety year on year whilst trying to not spoil the sport too much.


IMO with the tarmac run off's they have spoilt the sport too much.

I can think of very few safety measures that have taken as much away from the spectacle as tarmac run offs.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 10:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:57 am
Posts: 713
Location: Scotland/Lancashire
I think the tarmac runoffs are used far to liberally, and excessively where they are.

Yes some corners definitely should have them, as they are high speed and dangerous!

However, for example, Hockenheim - the hairpin. Why do we have a huge car park there - would something like this not be better? (I've coloured green where i think carpark could be replaced by grass)
Image
upload image

Yes an escape road, but the grass is there too so running wide gets punished harder.

There are countless examples of the completely unnecessary use of tarmac all over the calendar.

_________________
I'm competing this season, if anyone is interested in how I am getting on.

Car #36 - Blog


Last edited by Badgeronimous on Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 7141
Location: Michigan, USA
Badgeronimous wrote:
I think the tarmac runoffs are used far to liberally, and excessively where they are.

Yes some corners definitely should have them, as they are high speed and dangerous!

However, for example, Hockenheim - the hairpin. Why do we have a huge car park there - would something like this not be better?
Image
upload image

Yes an escape road, but the grass is there too so running wide gets punished harder.

There are countless examples of the completely unnecessary use of tarmac all over the calendar.

I think tarmac at the end of a straight is there in case of brake failure or a bizarre Buemi-in-China type accident. It seems like they could have a little strip of gravel or something to penalize people that just run wide, while still allowing room for an out-of-control car to slow down before hitting the wall.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:11 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 12:49 am
Posts: 341
Ban division 1.

It you take the top three teams out, or just consider them a sideshow, then formulae 1 is quite interesting. Who will win division 2 this weekend is a lot more open than who will will division 1.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:37 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:57 am
Posts: 713
Location: Scotland/Lancashire
Exediron wrote:
Badgeronimous wrote:
I think the tarmac runoffs are used far to liberally, and excessively where they are.

Yes some corners definitely should have them, as they are high speed and dangerous!

However, for example, Hockenheim - the hairpin. Why do we have a huge car park there - would something like this not be better?
Image
upload image

Yes an escape road, but the grass is there too so running wide gets punished harder.

There are countless examples of the completely unnecessary use of tarmac all over the calendar.

I think tarmac at the end of a straight is there in case of brake failure or a bizarre Buemi-in-China type accident. It seems like they could have a little strip of gravel or something to penalize people that just run wide, while still allowing room for an out-of-control car to slow down before hitting the wall.


A strip of gravel would be quite dangerous imo.

Gravel only really works if its in a full trap. You couldn't really have a strip of it, due to depth.

The gravel is usually (at least) 30cm deep.

_________________
I'm competing this season, if anyone is interested in how I am getting on.

Car #36 - Blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:40 am 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15593
Badgeronimous wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Badgeronimous wrote:
I think the tarmac runoffs are used far to liberally, and excessively where they are.

Yes some corners definitely should have them, as they are high speed and dangerous!

However, for example, Hockenheim - the hairpin. Why do we have a huge car park there - would something like this not be better?
Image
upload image

Yes an escape road, but the grass is there too so running wide gets punished harder.

There are countless examples of the completely unnecessary use of tarmac all over the calendar.

I think tarmac at the end of a straight is there in case of brake failure or a bizarre Buemi-in-China type accident. It seems like they could have a little strip of gravel or something to penalize people that just run wide, while still allowing room for an out-of-control car to slow down before hitting the wall.


A strip of gravel would be quite dangerous imo.

Gravel only really works if its in a full trap. You couldn't really have a strip of it, due to depth.

The gravel is usually (at least) 30cm deep.


Why would a strip of gravel be more dangerous than a full gravel trap?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:43 am 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15593
iano wrote:
Ban division 1.

It you take the top three teams out, or just consider them a sideshow, then formulae 1 is quite interesting. Who will win division 2 this weekend is a lot more open than who will will division 1.


This I can get on board with. Without the big 3 the championship battle would look like this -

1. Perez 77
2. Sainz 75
3. Ricciardo 70
4. Magnussen 68
5. Albon 64
6. Raikkonen 64
7. Kvyat 63
8. Norris 56
9. Stroll 51
10. Hulkenberg 48

How exciting would that be from race to race?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:46 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:57 am
Posts: 713
Location: Scotland/Lancashire
mikeyg123 wrote:
Badgeronimous wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Badgeronimous wrote:
I think the tarmac runoffs are used far to liberally, and excessively where they are.

Yes some corners definitely should have them, as they are high speed and dangerous!

However, for example, Hockenheim - the hairpin. Why do we have a huge car park there - would something like this not be better?
Image
upload image

Yes an escape road, but the grass is there too so running wide gets punished harder.

There are countless examples of the completely unnecessary use of tarmac all over the calendar.

I think tarmac at the end of a straight is there in case of brake failure or a bizarre Buemi-in-China type accident. It seems like they could have a little strip of gravel or something to penalize people that just run wide, while still allowing room for an out-of-control car to slow down before hitting the wall.


A strip of gravel would be quite dangerous imo.

Gravel only really works if its in a full trap. You couldn't really have a strip of it, due to depth.

The gravel is usually (at least) 30cm deep.


Why would a strip of gravel be more dangerous than a full gravel trap?


To install a thin strip of gravel would require a fairly deep and narrow trench to be dug in the tarmac, then filled level with gravel. As said gravel needs to be at least 30cm deep to be effective. Any shallower and you've just put marbles on the run off.

Spinning at speed into a narrow and deep trench wouldnt be good.

_________________
I'm competing this season, if anyone is interested in how I am getting on.

Car #36 - Blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:09 am 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15593
Badgeronimous wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Badgeronimous wrote:
Exediron wrote:
Badgeronimous wrote:
I think the tarmac runoffs are used far to liberally, and excessively where they are.

Yes some corners definitely should have them, as they are high speed and dangerous!

However, for example, Hockenheim - the hairpin. Why do we have a huge car park there - would something like this not be better?
Image
upload image

Yes an escape road, but the grass is there too so running wide gets punished harder.

There are countless examples of the completely unnecessary use of tarmac all over the calendar.

I think tarmac at the end of a straight is there in case of brake failure or a bizarre Buemi-in-China type accident. It seems like they could have a little strip of gravel or something to penalize people that just run wide, while still allowing room for an out-of-control car to slow down before hitting the wall.


A strip of gravel would be quite dangerous imo.

Gravel only really works if its in a full trap. You couldn't really have a strip of it, due to depth.

The gravel is usually (at least) 30cm deep.


Why would a strip of gravel be more dangerous than a full gravel trap?


To install a thin strip of gravel would require a fairly deep and narrow trench to be dug in the tarmac, then filled level with gravel. As said gravel needs to be at least 30cm deep to be effective. Any shallower and you've just put marbles on the run off.

Spinning at speed into a narrow and deep trench wouldnt be good.


OK, so the you don't level it off with the rest off the run off. You have it raised slightly. Secondly I don't agree the car spinning because of the gravel is a bad thing. Thirdly all that strip of gravel has to do is slow down a car going in it enough to provide an incentive not to. If it only costs two seconds that's better than what we have now.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 4:21 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:33 pm
Posts: 1976
Location: Colwyn Bay, North Wales
mikeyg123 wrote:
OK, so the you don't level it off with the rest off the run off. You have it raised slightly. Secondly I don't agree the car spinning because of the gravel is a bad thing. Thirdly all that strip of gravel has to do is slow down a car going in it enough to provide an incentive not to. If it only costs two seconds that's better than what we have now.

I think he means a car already spinning would snag a wheel on the edge of the trench and be liable to flip, not that the trench could cause a spin.

_________________
Organiser of the single most low-tech Robot Wars tournament in history, PM for details!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 3:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2011 6:17 pm
Posts: 636
Location: illinois
mikeyg123 wrote:
iano wrote:
Ban division 1.

It you take the top three teams out, or just consider them a sideshow, then formulae 1 is quite interesting. Who will win division 2 this weekend is a lot more open than who will will division 1.


This I can get on board with. Without the big 3 the championship battle would look like this -

1. Perez 77
2. Sainz 75
3. Ricciardo 70
4. Magnussen 68
5. Albon 64
6. Raikkonen 64
7. Kvyat 63
8. Norris 56
9. Stroll 51
10. Hulkenberg 48

How exciting would that be from race to race?


i wish the tv would show more of this battle, it is exciting. mercedes is going to mop the floor with everyone sunday. no need to show them way out front lap after lap, show the midfield battle, it's intense


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 12:36 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 2:46 am
Posts: 608
Just bring back the 1980s F1..... that would fix everything.

_________________
too fast to slow down


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 7:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2012 11:57 am
Posts: 713
Location: Scotland/Lancashire
Tufty wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
OK, so the you don't level it off with the rest off the run off. You have it raised slightly. Secondly I don't agree the car spinning because of the gravel is a bad thing. Thirdly all that strip of gravel has to do is slow down a car going in it enough to provide an incentive not to. If it only costs two seconds that's better than what we have now.

I think he means a car already spinning would snag a wheel on the edge of the trench and be liable to flip, not that the trench could cause a spin.


Exactly what I mean. I don't know what people real life driving experience is, but if you've ever been in a car spinning on the asphalt then going into the gravel whilst still spinning - you'd understand why strips of gravel wouldn't work well - You have to have sufficient depth for the car to bed into the gravel, and sufficient gravel to allow the car to bed in. Once the car beds into the gravel, it really slows you down. I would support strips of grass though lining tracks, certainly in all but the hairiest high speed corners, with asphalt behind - I think it is a sensible option. I would support more gravel traps being used as well, again a bit of logic to where they are used and how they are designed. I certainly do think the 'car parks' detract from the sport.

You need to remember a lot of these tracks do much more than F1 racing - the staple for tracks (certainly in Europe) is amateur racing, red letter days, and track days - with a few big professional race meeting a season. I will tell you as an amateur racer, I really want the chances of my car being badly damaged or destroyed after making a minor mistake to be as minimal as possible - so tracks need to be designed with that in mind too.

_________________
I'm competing this season, if anyone is interested in how I am getting on.

Car #36 - Blog


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:57 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 11:06 am
Posts: 7758
Location: Belgium
mikeyg123 wrote:
Thirdly all that strip of gravel has to do is slow down a car going in it enough to provide an incentive not to. If it only costs two seconds that's better than what we have now.
The gravel is there to keep car and driver safe. So is the asphalt overrun. The consequence of having these safety features is that track limits have to be strictly observed and penalties served. The incentive for staying within the track limits is being allowed to continue in the race.

_________________
Use every man after his desert, and who should scape whipping? Use them after your own honour and dignity.

Maria de Villota - Jules Bianchi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:12 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed May 27, 2009 12:49 am
Posts: 341
pc27b wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
iano wrote:
Ban division 1.

It you take the top three teams out, or just consider them a sideshow, then formulae 1 is quite interesting. Who will win division 2 this weekend is a lot more open than who will will division 1.


This I can get on board with. Without the big 3 the championship battle would look like this -

1. Perez 77
2. Sainz 75
3. Ricciardo 70
4. Magnussen 68
5. Albon 64
6. Raikkonen 64
7. Kvyat 63
8. Norris 56
9. Stroll 51
10. Hulkenberg 48

How exciting would that be from race to race?


i wish the tv would show more of this battle, it is exciting. mercedes is going to mop the floor with everyone sunday. no need to show them way out front lap after lap, show the midfield battle, it's intense


In fact this 'real F1' is so appealing that Red Bull are also trying to get a slice of the action this weekend.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:31 pm 
Online

Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15593
Not radical but I'm watching the Indycar race and they have actual grass up to the edge of the track and the cars are able to follow each other.

That would be a nice start.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 5:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 18, 2008 8:56 pm
Posts: 878
No radical idea is needed. Just remove the dependence on aero by mandating small and simple wings. It will allow cars to follow closely and overtake without DRS assistance. DRS could then be reduced in scope or even eliminated entirely at some tracks.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: mikeyg123, UnlikeUday and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group