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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 8:57 am 
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Lt. Drebin wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
There's one thing about Nikki that I'm curious about. I wonder if there are any old-timers in here who can comment on 1984 (kidding - you don't have to be that old to remember that). I didn't start following F1 until the late 80s and didn't see that season myself. Everyone just says Lauda was lucky and that Prost was clearly the better performer. Anyone see it differently?

There is something in Lauda's luck, as well as Prost performance, but not all that decisive. The main point is that Lauda was not (anymore) that good qualifier and it did not looked good on the eyes. His first half of the season was not that good, as he had many retirements. Also, all in all Prost beat him in victories 7:5. However, Lauda was very able to make it up in the second part of the season, and throughout the season his finished always first and second, when he finished the race at all, with one exception at Nurburgring, fourth. He had 6 retirements and Prost five, so his achievement looks better. However, it looks like that the Monaco victory and half points cost Prost the crown, and even with eventual second place (Senna would almost certainly retire as he had badly damaged his front right suspension, so it would be still a victory, or still a second place behind Bellof), he would have 6 points instead of 4,5 which would have lifted him in the standings to first. Lauda said that it was his hardest championship win, and we have all reasons to believe him. Yet, nothing can be taken from his 1984 achievement.
I wonder where Senna had damaged his suspension, and how badly. I remember Prost driving the whole of the Belgian Grand Prix once with a damaged front suspension, so the fact Senna had damage might have allowed him to finish anyway. But if Senna had dropped out, and if Bellof did win the race, then surely Prost would have been elevated to first place when Tyrrell were disqualified?

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 8:59 am 
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RIP Niki. You were a truly inspiring person, both on and off the track. Very few drivers have achieved as much in or outside the F1 world. We all loved your total honesty and refusal to spout corporate b/s. Thanks above all for showing us what is possible through sheer willpower and belief.. :proud:


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:06 am 
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purchville wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
There's one thing about Nikki that I'm curious about. I wonder if there are any old-timers in here who can comment on 1984 (kidding - you don't have to be that old to remember that). I didn't start following F1 until the late 80s and didn't see that season myself. Everyone just says Lauda was lucky and that Prost was clearly the better performer. Anyone see it differently?


Prost threw away points that year, in Dallas and in Austria. Those mistakes cost him in the end. Niki crashed out in the rain of Monaco, and perhaps Prost was lucky to win it with Senna and Bellof catching rapidly, but it was only worth half points anyway. Prost was the better qualifier, Niki showed more consistency in races.


I'm pretty sure it was the last race of the year (Oz?) which Prost was leading, with Mansell's Lotus 2nd, and Lauda 3rd. Had they finished like that Prost would have been champ. But Mansell retired, so Niki won the title by half a point. But as he said to Prost on the rostrum. 'Don't worry, you'll win it next year.' ..


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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 6:19 pm 
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tim3003 wrote:
purchville wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
There's one thing about Nikki that I'm curious about. I wonder if there are any old-timers in here who can comment on 1984 (kidding - you don't have to be that old to remember that). I didn't start following F1 until the late 80s and didn't see that season myself. Everyone just says Lauda was lucky and that Prost was clearly the better performer. Anyone see it differently?


Prost threw away points that year, in Dallas and in Austria. Those mistakes cost him in the end. Niki crashed out in the rain of Monaco, and perhaps Prost was lucky to win it with Senna and Bellof catching rapidly, but it was only worth half points anyway. Prost was the better qualifier, Niki showed more consistency in races.


I'm pretty sure it was the last race of the year (Oz?) which Prost was leading, with Mansell's Lotus 2nd, and Lauda 3rd. Had they finished like that Prost would have been champ. But Mansell retired, so Niki won the title by half a point. But as he said to Prost on the rostrum. 'Don't worry, you'll win it next year.' ..
The last race of the year was in Portugal, at Estoril.

From memory Purchville, Prost didn't throw points away in Austria, going off on oil in a very fast corner (the one leading onto the finishing straight) isn't throwing it away. Max defending against an unlapping driver last year, that was throwing points away.

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PostPosted: Wed May 22, 2019 9:41 pm 
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RIP Nikki. Very sad news indeed. He was a true legend, a cornerstone of F1. Very bummed about this news.


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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 3:53 pm 
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This far I’ve seen just 4 teams paying tribute to Niki. McLaren, Ferrari Toro Rosso and Mercedes have done so on their cars with Mercedes having a sticker on the nose of the car saying thank you Niki with his signature above it, curiously dawning a W instead of a U, and the car featuring a single Red Tri-Star on the engine cover, but that is said to continue moving forward so really a great gesture by the team.

Vettel had a helmet painted honoring Niki as well which is very cool. I wonder if any other driver might do the same.

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PostPosted: Thu May 23, 2019 3:53 pm 
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Fiki wrote:
tim3003 wrote:
purchville wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
There's one thing about Nikki that I'm curious about. I wonder if there are any old-timers in here who can comment on 1984 (kidding - you don't have to be that old to remember that). I didn't start following F1 until the late 80s and didn't see that season myself. Everyone just says Lauda was lucky and that Prost was clearly the better performer. Anyone see it differently?


Prost threw away points that year, in Dallas and in Austria. Those mistakes cost him in the end. Niki crashed out in the rain of Monaco, and perhaps Prost was lucky to win it with Senna and Bellof catching rapidly, but it was only worth half points anyway. Prost was the better qualifier, Niki showed more consistency in races.


I'm pretty sure it was the last race of the year (Oz?) which Prost was leading, with Mansell's Lotus 2nd, and Lauda 3rd. Had they finished like that Prost would have been champ. But Mansell retired, so Niki won the title by half a point. But as he said to Prost on the rostrum. 'Don't worry, you'll win it next year.' ..
The last race of the year was in Portugal, at Estoril.

From memory Purchville, Prost didn't throw points away in Austria, going off on oil in a very fast corner (the one leading onto the finishing straight) isn't throwing it away. Max defending against an unlapping driver last year, that was throwing points away.


That's a matter of opinion I guess. Other drivers drove through the exact same oil patch and didn't spin off and retire. Okay, perhaps "throwing it away" is a bit harsh. You could call it unfortunate for Prost, but it didn't affect other drivers like it did Prost.

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- 5 victories (Mexico '18, Singapore '18, USA '17, USA '16, Mexico '16),
- 6 podiums
- 2013 Rookie of the Year
- 2014 Championship 6th position
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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 6:58 am 
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In all the tributes I think this was quite a funny yet warming comment by CH:

We’ll certainly miss the breakfast where he would come, pretty much every morning and Helmut and he would be like the two old guys in the Muppet Show, Waldorf and Statler I think it was, and they’d basically be commenting on all aspects of life, none of what I’m going to repeat here, that’s for sure – but his openness, his sense of humour, his ability to say “how did you screw that up?” something “was rubbish” – or complement you when you’d done well. He was a great guy, a great personality and he’ll be very, very sadly missed.

Have that image in my head now :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2019 2:14 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
In all the tributes I think this was quite a funny yet warming comment by CH:

We’ll certainly miss the breakfast where he would come, pretty much every morning and Helmut and he would be like the two old guys in the Muppet Show, Waldorf and Statler I think it was, and they’d basically be commenting on all aspects of life, none of what I’m going to repeat here, that’s for sure – but his openness, his sense of humour, his ability to say “how did you screw that up?” something “was rubbish” – or complement you when you’d done well. He was a great guy, a great personality and he’ll be very, very sadly missed.

Have that image in my head now :lol:

I can totally see that!


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 11:29 am 
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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 12:14 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
In all the tributes I think this was quite a funny yet warming comment by CH:

We’ll certainly miss the breakfast where he would come, pretty much every morning and Helmut and he would be like the two old guys in the Muppet Show, Waldorf and Statler I think it was, and they’d basically be commenting on all aspects of life, none of what I’m going to repeat here, that’s for sure – but his openness, his sense of humour, his ability to say “how did you screw that up?” something “was rubbish” – or complement you when you’d done well. He was a great guy, a great personality and he’ll be very, very sadly missed.

Have that image in my head now :lol:

:thumbup: :lol:

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