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Rank the drivers in order of ability
Rank the drivers in order of ability 2%  2%  [ 54 ]
Albon 1%  1%  [ 28 ]
Albon_1 1%  1%  [ 19 ]
Albon_2 1%  1%  [ 29 ]
Albon_3 2%  2%  [ 38 ]
Albon_4 1%  1%  [ 14 ]
Bottas 1%  1%  [ 27 ]
Bottas_1 1%  1%  [ 26 ]
Bottas_2 2%  2%  [ 36 ]
Bottas_3 0%  0%  [ 9 ]
Bottas_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Gasly 2%  2%  [ 35 ]
Gasly_1 1%  1%  [ 22 ]
Gasly_2 1%  1%  [ 27 ]
Gasly_3 1%  1%  [ 29 ]
Gasly_4 1%  1%  [ 22 ]
Giovianzzi 1%  1%  [ 32 ]
Giovianzzi_1 2%  2%  [ 40 ]
Giovianzzi_2 1%  1%  [ 13 ]
Giovianzzi_3 0%  0%  [ 5 ]
Giovianzzi_4 2%  2%  [ 49 ]
Grosjean 1%  1%  [ 31 ]
Grosjean_1 1%  1%  [ 25 ]
Grosjean_2 1%  1%  [ 20 ]
Grosjean_3 1%  1%  [ 34 ]
Grosjean_4 1%  1%  [ 20 ]
Hamilton 2%  2%  [ 46 ]
Hamilton_1 1%  1%  [ 13 ]
Hamilton_2 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Hamilton_3 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Hamilton_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Hulkenberg 1%  1%  [ 26 ]
Hulkenberg_1 1%  1%  [ 26 ]
Hulkenberg_2 1%  1%  [ 30 ]
Hulkenberg_3 1%  1%  [ 30 ]
Hulkenberg_4 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Kubica 1%  1%  [ 14 ]
Kubica_1 1%  1%  [ 18 ]
Kubica_2 1%  1%  [ 34 ]
Kubica_3 0%  0%  [ 3 ]
Kubica_4 2%  2%  [ 50 ]
Kyvat 1%  1%  [ 25 ]
Kyvat_1 1%  1%  [ 28 ]
Kyvat_2 1%  1%  [ 33 ]
Kyvat_3 2%  2%  [ 41 ]
Kyvat_4 1%  1%  [ 12 ]
Leclerc 1%  1%  [ 24 ]
Leclerc_1 1%  1%  [ 24 ]
Leclerc_2 2%  2%  [ 38 ]
Leclerc_3 0%  0%  [ 10 ]
Leclerc_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Magnussen 1%  1%  [ 21 ]
Magnussen_1 1%  1%  [ 29 ]
Magnussen_2 1%  1%  [ 27 ]
Magnussen_3 2%  2%  [ 43 ]
Magnussen_4 0%  0%  [ 5 ]
Norris 1%  1%  [ 27 ]
Norris_1 1%  1%  [ 28 ]
Norris_2 1%  1%  [ 32 ]
Norris_3 2%  2%  [ 41 ]
Norris_4 0%  0%  [ 8 ]
Perez 1%  1%  [ 29 ]
Perez_1 1%  1%  [ 22 ]
Perez_2 1%  1%  [ 21 ]
Perez_3 1%  1%  [ 29 ]
Perez_4 0%  0%  [ 10 ]
Raikkonen 1%  1%  [ 26 ]
Raikkonen_1 1%  1%  [ 24 ]
Raikkonen_2 1%  1%  [ 25 ]
Raikkonen_3 2%  2%  [ 36 ]
Raikkonen_4 0%  0%  [ 3 ]
Ricciardo 1%  1%  [ 26 ]
Ricciardo_1 1%  1%  [ 24 ]
Ricciardo_2 1%  1%  [ 32 ]
Ricciardo_3 0%  0%  [ 8 ]
Ricciardo_4 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Russell 1%  1%  [ 32 ]
Russell_1 1%  1%  [ 33 ]
Russell_2 1%  1%  [ 20 ]
Russell_3 1%  1%  [ 32 ]
Russell_4 1%  1%  [ 20 ]
Sainz 1%  1%  [ 23 ]
Sainz_1 1%  1%  [ 28 ]
Sainz_2 1%  1%  [ 22 ]
Sainz_3 2%  2%  [ 38 ]
Sainz_4 0%  0%  [ 5 ]
Stroll 1%  1%  [ 19 ]
Stroll_1 2%  2%  [ 39 ]
Stroll_2 0%  0%  [ 10 ]
Stroll_3 0%  0%  [ 3 ]
Stroll_4 2%  2%  [ 50 ]
Verstappen 1%  1%  [ 19 ]
Verstappen_1 2%  2%  [ 43 ]
Verstappen_2 0%  0%  [ 3 ]
Verstappen_3 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Verstappen_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Vettel 1%  1%  [ 30 ]
Vettel_1 1%  1%  [ 29 ]
Vettel_2 1%  1%  [ 33 ]
Vettel_3 0%  0%  [ 2 ]
Vettel_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 2322
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:32 pm 
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As a second test of the sortable poll type, I am now running the poll type it was designed for.

To participate in the poll, simply place the drivers in order from best to worst in terms of ability. You must select all drivers. Obviously, this refers to their ability as an F1 driver, not the driver you 'like the best'. It is also a measure of their ability at the present time, not how good they used to be in the past.

This is a second test of the poll type, however I feel this thread should be used for discussion of the topic, please leave feedback in the official feedback thread: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=16

How to use the poll
To add a driver to the list, click on their name in the left column and it will move to the right hand column below whichever driver is highlighted in blue (obviously, in the empty list it just gets added in position 1)

To remove a driver from the list, click on the x by their name. To change the driver you are adding after, click on the driver in the right hand list and they will be turned blue. To insert a driver at the top, click on the right hand column header.

Note, you must have ranked all items in the poll to be able to vote and you cannot rank things 'equal'


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:51 pm 
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With Alonso goes, the field certainly has been made a lot poorer, and consequently a little easier to judge. Originally there were a top 3, now it's just between Hamilton and Verstappen for the top slot in my opinion. I went with:



















1Hamilton
2Verstappen
3Ricciardo
4Vettel
5Hulkenberg
6Bottas
7Perez
8Leclerc
9Raikkonen
10Sainz
11Russell
12Norris
13Albon
14Magnussen
15Kyvat
16Grosjean
17Gasly
18Stroll
19Giovianzzi
20Kubica

It's depressing to put Kubica last, but unfortunately after such a long time out, and his injury, he's a shadow of the driver he once was and while he did perform well against Russell at Monaco, elsewhere he's had a substantial pace deficit. Midfield was hard to judge. I think there is a case for the Hulkenberg/Ricciardo pairing to be considered the strongest in the sport. Perez may be the most underrated driver on the grid. Max is maturing a lot, but he's also younger than Hamilton was when he entered the sport, so I have no doubts he will be topping future polls for many years to come...


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 1:57 pm 
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Posts: 15008
1. Hamilton
2. Verstappen
3. Vettel
4. Ricciardo
5. Perez
6. Bottas
7. Leclerc
8. Hulkenberg
9. Sainz
10. Raikkonen
11. Russell
12. Magnussen
13. Gasly
14. Grosjean
15. Kvyat
16. Albon
17. Norris
18. Stroll
19. Giovinazzi
20. Kubica

I think this is the weakest gird for a long time. There was a time when I could fill a top 6 of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Button, Rosberg and Ricciardo. The good news is there is a lot of improvement to come from a lot of the drivers. It's still almost impossible to judge Russell so I have put him in the middle.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 2:18 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I think this is the weakest gird for a long time. There was a time when I could fill a top 6 of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Button, Rosberg and Ricciardo. The good news is there is a lot of improvement to come from a lot of the drivers. It's still almost impossible to judge Russell so I have put him in the middle.

I think it is a weaker grid, but I think it's mostly down to the loss of Alonso and that weight would have been felt whenever it happened. Trying to rank Alonso and Hamilton was always the hardest part of the poll for me as there was a good case for either to be top. However, I feel soon Max will give me the same headache. The question is whether it's before or after Hamilton retires.

I think that the number of drivers in the Gold to Bronze levels is the same, it's just more weighted to bronze than before; for me there are only 4 questionable drivers, and given that Gasly is one of them, that's not too bad an indictment of the field.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 2:24 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think this is the weakest gird for a long time. There was a time when I could fill a top 6 of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Button, Rosberg and Ricciardo. The good news is there is a lot of improvement to come from a lot of the drivers. It's still almost impossible to judge Russell so I have put him in the middle.

I think it is a weaker grid, but I think it's mostly down to the loss of Alonso and that weight would have been felt whenever it happened. Trying to rank Alonso and Hamilton was always the hardest part of the poll for me as there was a good case for either to be top. However, I feel soon Max will give me the same headache. The question is whether it's before or after Hamilton retires.

I think that the number of drivers in the Gold to Bronze levels is the same, it's just more weighted to bronze than before; for me there are only 4 questionable drivers, and given that Gasly is one of them, that's not too bad an indictment of the field.


Well over the last few years we've lost Alonso, Button, and Rosberg. I personally now find it hard to draw up a top 10 of drivers I think deserve to be there where as 5 years ago I would have a hard time deciding who to leave out. Even not having someone like Ocon on the grid is a loss. He'd be top 10.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 2:33 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think this is the weakest gird for a long time. There was a time when I could fill a top 6 of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Button, Rosberg and Ricciardo. The good news is there is a lot of improvement to come from a lot of the drivers. It's still almost impossible to judge Russell so I have put him in the middle.

I think it is a weaker grid, but I think it's mostly down to the loss of Alonso and that weight would have been felt whenever it happened. Trying to rank Alonso and Hamilton was always the hardest part of the poll for me as there was a good case for either to be top. However, I feel soon Max will give me the same headache. The question is whether it's before or after Hamilton retires.

I think that the number of drivers in the Gold to Bronze levels is the same, it's just more weighted to bronze than before; for me there are only 4 questionable drivers, and given that Gasly is one of them, that's not too bad an indictment of the field.


Well over the last few years we've lost Alonso, Button, and Rosberg. I personally now find it hard to draw up a top 10 of drivers I think deserve to be there where as 5 years ago I would have a hard time deciding who to leave out. Even not having someone like Ocon on the grid is a loss. He'd be top 10.

True, but this is a natural cycle the sport goes through, post 93 was probably the weakest field we've seen. Senna/Schumacher were very similar to Hamilton/Verstappen, there was Hakkinen who was still unproven at the time, and then there wasn't really anyone. Alesi, Berger were all competent drivers, but very much high bronze/low silver calibre of drivers in the current order. They deserved to be there, but we not natural front runners. We then saw the same after Hakkinen retired. One one generation to the next there is always a drop in quality - but I think this is at a higher standard than previous transition grids.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 2:39 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think this is the weakest gird for a long time. There was a time when I could fill a top 6 of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Button, Rosberg and Ricciardo. The good news is there is a lot of improvement to come from a lot of the drivers. It's still almost impossible to judge Russell so I have put him in the middle.

I think it is a weaker grid, but I think it's mostly down to the loss of Alonso and that weight would have been felt whenever it happened. Trying to rank Alonso and Hamilton was always the hardest part of the poll for me as there was a good case for either to be top. However, I feel soon Max will give me the same headache. The question is whether it's before or after Hamilton retires.

I think that the number of drivers in the Gold to Bronze levels is the same, it's just more weighted to bronze than before; for me there are only 4 questionable drivers, and given that Gasly is one of them, that's not too bad an indictment of the field.


Well over the last few years we've lost Alonso, Button, and Rosberg. I personally now find it hard to draw up a top 10 of drivers I think deserve to be there where as 5 years ago I would have a hard time deciding who to leave out. Even not having someone like Ocon on the grid is a loss. He'd be top 10.

And Massa.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 2:40 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 31090
The overall list looks close to my list, nice. :)

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 16th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 2:45 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:13 pm
Posts: 15008
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think this is the weakest gird for a long time. There was a time when I could fill a top 6 of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Button, Rosberg and Ricciardo. The good news is there is a lot of improvement to come from a lot of the drivers. It's still almost impossible to judge Russell so I have put him in the middle.

I think it is a weaker grid, but I think it's mostly down to the loss of Alonso and that weight would have been felt whenever it happened. Trying to rank Alonso and Hamilton was always the hardest part of the poll for me as there was a good case for either to be top. However, I feel soon Max will give me the same headache. The question is whether it's before or after Hamilton retires.

I think that the number of drivers in the Gold to Bronze levels is the same, it's just more weighted to bronze than before; for me there are only 4 questionable drivers, and given that Gasly is one of them, that's not too bad an indictment of the field.


Well over the last few years we've lost Alonso, Button, and Rosberg. I personally now find it hard to draw up a top 10 of drivers I think deserve to be there where as 5 years ago I would have a hard time deciding who to leave out. Even not having someone like Ocon on the grid is a loss. He'd be top 10.

True, but this is a natural cycle the sport goes through, post 93 was probably the weakest field we've seen. Senna/Schumacher were very similar to Hamilton/Verstappen, there was Hakkinen who was still unproven at the time, and then there wasn't really anyone. Alesi, Berger were all competent drivers, but very much high bronze/low silver calibre of drivers in the current order. They deserved to be there, but we not natural front runners. We then saw the same after Hakkinen retired. One one generation to the next there is always a drop in quality - but I think this is at a higher standard than previous transition grids.


Yes, I don't think it's anything to worry about. We've got a lot of drivers on the grid showing promise.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 2:52 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think this is the weakest gird for a long time. There was a time when I could fill a top 6 of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Button, Rosberg and Ricciardo. The good news is there is a lot of improvement to come from a lot of the drivers. It's still almost impossible to judge Russell so I have put him in the middle.

I think it is a weaker grid, but I think it's mostly down to the loss of Alonso and that weight would have been felt whenever it happened. Trying to rank Alonso and Hamilton was always the hardest part of the poll for me as there was a good case for either to be top. However, I feel soon Max will give me the same headache. The question is whether it's before or after Hamilton retires.

I think that the number of drivers in the Gold to Bronze levels is the same, it's just more weighted to bronze than before; for me there are only 4 questionable drivers, and given that Gasly is one of them, that's not too bad an indictment of the field.


Well over the last few years we've lost Alonso, Button, and Rosberg. I personally now find it hard to draw up a top 10 of drivers I think deserve to be there where as 5 years ago I would have a hard time deciding who to leave out. Even not having someone like Ocon on the grid is a loss. He'd be top 10.

In that same period of time, we've gained Max, Charles, Norris, Albon, Russel, Gasly and Stroll. Max and Charles speak for themselves. I think both will be great (one already is). For me, the odds are that Norris and/or Russel and/or Albon will be outstanding in F1 as well. The sport has replenished itself quite nicely. I disagree with your notion that it's a weak grid. It's just a young grid and Daniel has been shuffled off to the side now at Renault. We've had a lot of the previous generation leave the sport in recent years including some of the real top names. Only Raikkonen remains from the V10 era now.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 3:00 pm 
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Posts: 15008
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think this is the weakest gird for a long time. There was a time when I could fill a top 6 of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Button, Rosberg and Ricciardo. The good news is there is a lot of improvement to come from a lot of the drivers. It's still almost impossible to judge Russell so I have put him in the middle.

I think it is a weaker grid, but I think it's mostly down to the loss of Alonso and that weight would have been felt whenever it happened. Trying to rank Alonso and Hamilton was always the hardest part of the poll for me as there was a good case for either to be top. However, I feel soon Max will give me the same headache. The question is whether it's before or after Hamilton retires.

I think that the number of drivers in the Gold to Bronze levels is the same, it's just more weighted to bronze than before; for me there are only 4 questionable drivers, and given that Gasly is one of them, that's not too bad an indictment of the field.


Well over the last few years we've lost Alonso, Button, and Rosberg. I personally now find it hard to draw up a top 10 of drivers I think deserve to be there where as 5 years ago I would have a hard time deciding who to leave out. Even not having someone like Ocon on the grid is a loss. He'd be top 10.

In that same period of time, we've gained Max, Charles, Norris, Albon, Russel, Gasly and Stroll. Max and Charles speak for themselves. I think both will be great (one already is). For me, the odds are that Norris and/or Russel and/or Albon will be outstanding in F1 as well. The sport has replenished itself quite nicely. I disagree with your notion that it's a weak grid. It's just a young grid and Daniel has been shuffled off to the side now at Renault. We've had a lot of the previous generation leave the sport in recent years including some of the real top names. Only Raikkonen remains from the V10 era now.


I don't think it's a strong grid this year. I do think the drivers on this grid could well contribute to strong grid in years to come. We are in a transition phase.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 3:09 pm 
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Posts: 6310
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
I think this is the weakest gird for a long time. There was a time when I could fill a top 6 of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Button, Rosberg and Ricciardo. The good news is there is a lot of improvement to come from a lot of the drivers. It's still almost impossible to judge Russell so I have put him in the middle.

I think it is a weaker grid, but I think it's mostly down to the loss of Alonso and that weight would have been felt whenever it happened. Trying to rank Alonso and Hamilton was always the hardest part of the poll for me as there was a good case for either to be top. However, I feel soon Max will give me the same headache. The question is whether it's before or after Hamilton retires.

I think that the number of drivers in the Gold to Bronze levels is the same, it's just more weighted to bronze than before; for me there are only 4 questionable drivers, and given that Gasly is one of them, that's not too bad an indictment of the field.


Well over the last few years we've lost Alonso, Button, and Rosberg. I personally now find it hard to draw up a top 10 of drivers I think deserve to be there where as 5 years ago I would have a hard time deciding who to leave out. Even not having someone like Ocon on the grid is a loss. He'd be top 10.

In that same period of time, we've gained Max, Charles, Norris, Albon, Russel, Gasly and Stroll. Max and Charles speak for themselves. I think both will be great (one already is). For me, the odds are that Norris and/or Russel and/or Albon will be outstanding in F1 as well. The sport has replenished itself quite nicely. I disagree with your notion that it's a weak grid. It's just a young grid and Daniel has been shuffled off to the side now at Renault. We've had a lot of the previous generation leave the sport in recent years including some of the real top names. Only Raikkonen remains from the V10 era now.


I don't think it's a strong grid this year. I do think the drivers on this grid could well contribute to strong grid in years to come. We are in a transition phase.

In terms of talent, I think the current grid is very strong. In terms of experience, it's very weak. It depends on what you prioritize.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 3:19 pm 
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Posts: 15008
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
I think it is a weaker grid, but I think it's mostly down to the loss of Alonso and that weight would have been felt whenever it happened. Trying to rank Alonso and Hamilton was always the hardest part of the poll for me as there was a good case for either to be top. However, I feel soon Max will give me the same headache. The question is whether it's before or after Hamilton retires.

I think that the number of drivers in the Gold to Bronze levels is the same, it's just more weighted to bronze than before; for me there are only 4 questionable drivers, and given that Gasly is one of them, that's not too bad an indictment of the field.


Well over the last few years we've lost Alonso, Button, and Rosberg. I personally now find it hard to draw up a top 10 of drivers I think deserve to be there where as 5 years ago I would have a hard time deciding who to leave out. Even not having someone like Ocon on the grid is a loss. He'd be top 10.

In that same period of time, we've gained Max, Charles, Norris, Albon, Russel, Gasly and Stroll. Max and Charles speak for themselves. I think both will be great (one already is). For me, the odds are that Norris and/or Russel and/or Albon will be outstanding in F1 as well. The sport has replenished itself quite nicely. I disagree with your notion that it's a weak grid. It's just a young grid and Daniel has been shuffled off to the side now at Renault. We've had a lot of the previous generation leave the sport in recent years including some of the real top names. Only Raikkonen remains from the V10 era now.


I don't think it's a strong grid this year. I do think the drivers on this grid could well contribute to strong grid in years to come. We are in a transition phase.

In terms of talent, I think the current grid is very strong. In terms of experience, it's very weak. It depends on what you prioritize.


In terms of how good the drivers are right now it's weak.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 3:28 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:

Well over the last few years we've lost Alonso, Button, and Rosberg. I personally now find it hard to draw up a top 10 of drivers I think deserve to be there where as 5 years ago I would have a hard time deciding who to leave out. Even not having someone like Ocon on the grid is a loss. He'd be top 10.

In that same period of time, we've gained Max, Charles, Norris, Albon, Russel, Gasly and Stroll. Max and Charles speak for themselves. I think both will be great (one already is). For me, the odds are that Norris and/or Russel and/or Albon will be outstanding in F1 as well. The sport has replenished itself quite nicely. I disagree with your notion that it's a weak grid. It's just a young grid and Daniel has been shuffled off to the side now at Renault. We've had a lot of the previous generation leave the sport in recent years including some of the real top names. Only Raikkonen remains from the V10 era now.


I don't think it's a strong grid this year. I do think the drivers on this grid could well contribute to strong grid in years to come. We are in a transition phase.

In terms of talent, I think the current grid is very strong. In terms of experience, it's very weak. It depends on what you prioritize.


In terms of how good the drivers are right now it's weak.

No I disagree. By what frame of reference are you making that claim? I know that this is your new thing; complaining about everything in F1 as though the ceiling is caving in but I do not see justification for your claim. A year ago you were saying that the grid was extremely strong; with the big 5 (Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Ricciardo, Verstappen) and several solid midfielders like Hulk, Perez, Ocon, etc. So Alonso walks away and now you want people to believe that it's suddenly a vastly weaker grid? I'm not buying it mate. Okay, the loss of Alonso is a significant loss. He was a great driver but as he walks away, Norris, Russel and Albon all join in. I didn't mention Ocon in my post about recent entries into the sport but I think the influx of talent since 2015 has more than made up for the out-flow. The grid is very strong right now. In fact; only Stroll and Kubica could be labelled "pay drivers" and they are clearly the bottom two drivers on the grid at the moment.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 3:29 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
1. Hamilton
2. Verstappen
3. Vettel
4. Ricciardo
5. Perez
6. Bottas
7. Leclerc
8. Hulkenberg
9. Sainz
10. Raikkonen
11. Russell
12. Magnussen
13. Gasly
14. Grosjean
15. Kvyat
16. Albon
17. Norris
18. Stroll
19. Giovinazzi
20. Kubica

I think this is the weakest gird for a long time. There was a time when I could fill a top 6 of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Button, Rosberg and Ricciardo. The good news is there is a lot of improvement to come from a lot of the drivers. It's still almost impossible to judge Russell so I have put him in the middle.

Broadly agree with this, but I'd say Max is looking like a contender for top spot so far this year while Leclerc certainly looks like having the potential of vaulting up the ranks. I would put Sainz higher, too, but a little undecided exactly where. Higher than Hulk and might even put Bottas behind him. I also think Ricciardo is trading on his past and hasn't really shown an awful lot so far this year


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 3:40 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
In that same period of time, we've gained Max, Charles, Norris, Albon, Russel, Gasly and Stroll. Max and Charles speak for themselves. I think both will be great (one already is). For me, the odds are that Norris and/or Russel and/or Albon will be outstanding in F1 as well. The sport has replenished itself quite nicely. I disagree with your notion that it's a weak grid. It's just a young grid and Daniel has been shuffled off to the side now at Renault. We've had a lot of the previous generation leave the sport in recent years including some of the real top names. Only Raikkonen remains from the V10 era now.


I don't think it's a strong grid this year. I do think the drivers on this grid could well contribute to strong grid in years to come. We are in a transition phase.

In terms of talent, I think the current grid is very strong. In terms of experience, it's very weak. It depends on what you prioritize.


In terms of how good the drivers are right now it's weak.

No I disagree. By what frame of reference are you making that claim? I know that this is your new thing; complaining about everything in F1 as though the ceiling is caving in but I do not see justification for your claim. A year ago you were saying that the grid was extremely strong; with the big 5 (Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Ricciardo, Verstappen) and several solid midfielders like Hulk, Perez, Ocon, etc. So Alonso walks away and now you want people to believe that it's suddenly a vastly weaker grid? I'm not buying it mate. Okay, the loss of Alonso is a significant loss. He was a great driver but as he walks away, Norris, Russel and Albon all join in. I didn't mention Ocon in my post about recent entries into the sport but I think the influx of talent since 2015 has more than made up for the out-flow. The grid is very strong right now. In fact; only Stroll and Kubica could be labelled "pay drivers" and they are clearly the bottom two drivers on the grid at the moment.


Christ. I said a few posts up that I don't think it is anything to worry about.

It's my opinion that as of now the grid isn't has strong as we have had in recent years. That's not to say that the current crop can't make a strong grid in the coming years. Losing Alonso and Ocon does make quite a difference TBF it's 20% of the top 10.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 3:42 pm 
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Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
1. Hamilton
2. Verstappen
3. Vettel
4. Ricciardo
5. Perez
6. Bottas
7. Leclerc
8. Hulkenberg
9. Sainz
10. Raikkonen
11. Russell
12. Magnussen
13. Gasly
14. Grosjean
15. Kvyat
16. Albon
17. Norris
18. Stroll
19. Giovinazzi
20. Kubica

I think this is the weakest gird for a long time. There was a time when I could fill a top 6 of Hamilton, Alonso, Vettel, Button, Rosberg and Ricciardo. The good news is there is a lot of improvement to come from a lot of the drivers. It's still almost impossible to judge Russell so I have put him in the middle.

Broadly agree with this, but I'd say Max is looking like a contender for top spot so far this year while Leclerc certainly looks like having the potential of vaulting up the ranks. I would put Sainz higher, too, but a little undecided exactly where. Higher than Hulk and might even put Bottas behind him. I also think Ricciardo is trading on his past and hasn't really shown an awful lot so far this year


If it was based just on this year I would agree. I think we are supposed to be ranking on current ability rather than current form.

Ricciardo has clearly been better than Hulkenberg thus far so for me he's nailed on as 3rd or 4th. I think 5th - 10th are very close.


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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 4:43 pm 
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Agreed that past Hamilton and Verstappen and (I think the jury will remain out) Vettel, it's definitely a case of only being best-of-the rest. I don't look at any of them and find myself screaming "someone give that man a better car!" Possible exception of Ricciardo maybe. Leclerc still too early and same for Russel and Norris maybe. I used to think Sainz was undervalued but I'm less convinced now. He's good, but can goes several races without really shining.
I do wonder how Vettel would be rated if people only tuned into F1 in 2014 and had no idea he was a 4 x WDC.

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PostPosted: Wed May 29, 2019 5:02 pm 
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Hamilton
Verstappen
Ricciardo
Vettel
Leclerc
Hulkenberg
Bottas
Raikkonen
Perez
Sainz
Russell
Magnussen
Albon
Norris
Gasly
Kvyat
Grosjean
Kubica
Giovinazzi
Stroll

With Alonso gone, I can finally put Hamilton at the top of the list. Verstappen is the only one in the same league if you ask me, and I'm yet to be convinced that he's cut the recklessness out of his driving.

I'm not sure that Ricciardo is really top drawer based on how he matched up against Verstappen, but then I struggled with naming drivers that would belong above him. Vettel has made far too many mistakes in the past couple of years, Leclerc is still a bit erratic and Bottas needs to put together a full season of strong performances rather than having a few good races and then falling into obscurity for the rest of the year.

Regarding the overall strength of the grid I've no reason to believe that it's any weaker than it has been in recent years, the problem that with so few teams being in contention for wins in the past decade we've not seen many of these drivers get the chance to show their skills at the front end of the field. If you ask me the only real difference between Button / Rosberg and the likes of Hulkenberg and Perez is the opportunities that they have been presented with. Both Rosberg and Button were considered no more than good midfield drivers until they were handed a front-running car with a well-proven team mate. You could say the same for Bottas, who currently sits 5th in the poll when he was never anywhere near that as a Williams driver.


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 8:08 pm 
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What interesting is that everyone who has published lists has an identical top ten drivers (in different orders) , the same selection of top four drivers, and ranked the same top two, and same bottom three. This matches with the group as well.

However, it's the fact that everyone seems to have split the grid into exactly the same top ten, and same bottom ten, that surprises me.


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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 9:48 pm 
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Perez is so underappreciated

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PostPosted: Thu May 30, 2019 10:04 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
Perez is so underappreciated

He's in eighth place, behind only Hulk and the top six drivers. I think he might deserve to be up a place (he's arguably better than Hulk) but I don't think he's being badly underrated on this poll. There are years where I would have said he was better than Bottas, but this wouldn't be one of them.

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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 4:24 am 
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Exediron wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Perez is so underappreciated

He's in eighth place, behind only Hulk and the top six drivers. I think he might deserve to be up a place (he's arguably better than Hulk) but I don't think he's being badly underrated on this poll. There are years where I would have said he was better than Bottas, but this wouldn't be one of them.


Hulk is only better than Checo in qualy or in wet weather but in race pace & tyre preservation, Checo is better. Checo's driving style is similar to Verstappen's (aggressive) whereas Hulk's is similar to Button (smooth & conservative). Checo will always push the driver ahead & try to go for gaps whereas Hulk prefers to be safe than sorry & bring the car home.

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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:47 am 
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Is it no longer possible to just view the results without submitting an entry of your own?

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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 10:41 am 
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Exediron wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Perez is so underappreciated

He's in eighth place, behind only Hulk and the top six drivers. I think he might deserve to be up a place (he's arguably better than Hulk) but I don't think he's being badly underrated on this poll. There are years where I would have said he was better than Bottas, but this wouldn't be one of them.

I think Leclerc is too highly rated to be honest. If we're going by this season alone both Ferrari drivers are too highly rated and agreed, Bottas ahead of Perez. If we're going by career up to date I put Perez ahead of Bottas, but only just

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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 10:46 am 
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mcdo wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Perez is so underappreciated

He's in eighth place, behind only Hulk and the top six drivers. I think he might deserve to be up a place (he's arguably better than Hulk) but I don't think he's being badly underrated on this poll. There are years where I would have said he was better than Bottas, but this wouldn't be one of them.

I think Leclerc is too highly rated to be honest. If we're going by this season alone both Ferrari drivers are too highly rated and agreed, Bottas ahead of Perez. If we're going by career up to date I put Perez ahead of Bottas, but only just

It's not a measure of their performance over their careers, or of their performance this season, it's a measure of how 'good' you rate them. I guess the easiest way to think about it, is if you were a team principal of a one car team*, operating for one season*, the order you put them in is your preferred order in which you would select the driver for that seat.

(* These constraints are so issues like 'how well they work in a team' or 'how long they will stay in F1' are not part of the consideration)


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 10:49 am 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Perez is so underappreciated

He's in eighth place, behind only Hulk and the top six drivers. I think he might deserve to be up a place (he's arguably better than Hulk) but I don't think he's being badly underrated on this poll. There are years where I would have said he was better than Bottas, but this wouldn't be one of them.

I think Leclerc is too highly rated to be honest. If we're going by this season alone both Ferrari drivers are too highly rated and agreed, Bottas ahead of Perez. If we're going by career up to date I put Perez ahead of Bottas, but only just

It's not a measure of their performance over their careers, or of their performance this season, it's a measure of how 'good' you rate them. I guess the easiest way to think about it, is if you were a team principal of a one car team*, operating for one season*, the order you put them in is your preferred order in which you would select the driver for that seat.

(* These constraints are so issues like 'how well they work in a team' or 'how long they will stay in F1' are not part of the consideration)


I put Perez ahead of Bottas and at the moment I would pick him for a drive above Bottas. I guess it depends if you think his current run is a small patch of good form or if it will continue.

I'm very surprised to see that Perez is still rated below Hulkenberg.


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 11:01 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Perez is so underappreciated

He's in eighth place, behind only Hulk and the top six drivers. I think he might deserve to be up a place (he's arguably better than Hulk) but I don't think he's being badly underrated on this poll. There are years where I would have said he was better than Bottas, but this wouldn't be one of them.

I think Leclerc is too highly rated to be honest. If we're going by this season alone both Ferrari drivers are too highly rated and agreed, Bottas ahead of Perez. If we're going by career up to date I put Perez ahead of Bottas, but only just

It's not a measure of their performance over their careers, or of their performance this season, it's a measure of how 'good' you rate them. I guess the easiest way to think about it, is if you were a team principal of a one car team*, operating for one season*, the order you put them in is your preferred order in which you would select the driver for that seat.

(* These constraints are so issues like 'how well they work in a team' or 'how long they will stay in F1' are not part of the consideration)


I put Perez ahead of Bottas and at the moment I would pick him for a drive above Bottas. I guess it depends if you think his current run is a small patch of good form or if it will continue.

I'm very surprised to see that Perez is still rated below Hulkenberg.

For me, ranking Perez, Bottas and Hulkenberg was the hardest part of the poll. Hulkenberg is also less disadvantaged this year due to the changes to the driver seat weight regulations.


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 11:41 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Perez is so underappreciated

He's in eighth place, behind only Hulk and the top six drivers. I think he might deserve to be up a place (he's arguably better than Hulk) but I don't think he's being badly underrated on this poll. There are years where I would have said he was better than Bottas, but this wouldn't be one of them.

I think Leclerc is too highly rated to be honest. If we're going by this season alone both Ferrari drivers are too highly rated and agreed, Bottas ahead of Perez. If we're going by career up to date I put Perez ahead of Bottas, but only just

It's not a measure of their performance over their careers, or of their performance this season, it's a measure of how 'good' you rate them. I guess the easiest way to think about it, is if you were a team principal of a one car team*, operating for one season*, the order you put them in is your preferred order in which you would select the driver for that seat.

(* These constraints are so issues like 'how well they work in a team' or 'how long they will stay in F1' are not part of the consideration)


I put Perez ahead of Bottas and at the moment I would pick him for a drive above Bottas. I guess it depends if you think his current run is a small patch of good form or if it will continue.

I'm very surprised to see that Perez is still rated below Hulkenberg.

Hulk is a bit anonymous during the races and doesn't really pull off any memorable moves that I can think of. Solid but unspectacular is how I'd describe him. I'd put him below Perez and Sainz tbh

Post edited by Mod Aqua. This is not a thread about Rosberg


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 11:44 am 
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Zoue wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
mcdo wrote:
Exediron wrote:
He's in eighth place, behind only Hulk and the top six drivers. I think he might deserve to be up a place (he's arguably better than Hulk) but I don't think he's being badly underrated on this poll. There are years where I would have said he was better than Bottas, but this wouldn't be one of them.

I think Leclerc is too highly rated to be honest. If we're going by this season alone both Ferrari drivers are too highly rated and agreed, Bottas ahead of Perez. If we're going by career up to date I put Perez ahead of Bottas, but only just

It's not a measure of their performance over their careers, or of their performance this season, it's a measure of how 'good' you rate them. I guess the easiest way to think about it, is if you were a team principal of a one car team*, operating for one season*, the order you put them in is your preferred order in which you would select the driver for that seat.

(* These constraints are so issues like 'how well they work in a team' or 'how long they will stay in F1' are not part of the consideration)


I put Perez ahead of Bottas and at the moment I would pick him for a drive above Bottas. I guess it depends if you think his current run is a small patch of good form or if it will continue.

I'm very surprised to see that Perez is still rated below Hulkenberg.

Hulk reminds me a bit of Rosberg before 2014. He's a bit anonymous during the races and doesn't really pull off any memorable moves that I can think of. Solid but unspectacular is how I'd describe him. I'd put him below Perez and Sainz tbh

That description reminds me a bit of "quick Nick"


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 2:19 pm 
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Surprised at how high some people rate Ricciardo. He looked good in a good RedBull car but not as good as Verstappen. He doesn't seem to look any better than Hulkenberg in a bad Renault.
There's not too many teams that have 1 driver that is vastly superior to the other. Seem like most of the driver are pretty equal and the equipment sets them apart. Everyone knows the standout drivers.


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 2:25 pm 
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Vettel Fan wrote:
Surprised at how high some people rate Ricciardo. He looked good in a good RedBull car but not as good as Verstappen. He doesn't seem to look any better than Hulkenberg in a bad Renault.
There's not too many teams that have 1 driver that is vastly superior to the other. Seem like most of the driver are pretty equal and the equipment sets them apart. Everyone knows the standout drivers.


I think Ricciardo has done a fair bit better than Hulkenberg this season. He made a mistake in Baku but aside from that he's been consistently the better performing Renault driver.


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 5:57 pm 
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On the Perez-Hulk comparison, I would agree that Perez > Hulk. However surprised that Hulk outscored Perez quite comfortably in 2014, 96-59. I don't remember it being that comfortable, was it really that comfortable?


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 6:43 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Vettel Fan wrote:
Surprised at how high some people rate Ricciardo. He looked good in a good RedBull car but not as good as Verstappen. He doesn't seem to look any better than Hulkenberg in a bad Renault.
There's not too many teams that have 1 driver that is vastly superior to the other. Seem like most of the driver are pretty equal and the equipment sets them apart. Everyone knows the standout drivers.


I think Ricciardo has done a fair bit better than Hulkenberg this season. He made a mistake in Baku but aside from that he's been consistently the better performing Renault driver.

I'm really not sure about this. Ricciardo first off in australia drove onto the grass when he could have just backed off and wrecked his race. Then did a very clumsy overtake on Hulkenberg in Bahrain in his usual lunging style. It often works, but that just looked silly. Luckily, no serious damage. The only time where I thought Ricciardo was obviously much better was Baku, but that was until another silly mistake. Even the latest race, Ricciardo did look good, but Hulkenberg was very unlucky and got a puncture from Leclerc. I'm not convinced there would have been much of a difference between the two by the end if not for this. I would say that Hulkenberg has certainly been the better of the two so far, but not by a huge margin.


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 8:52 pm 
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Ok guys. The Rosberg comment was first allowed to slide as it was initially a throwaway remark - but seeing how both sides let it quickly escalate off topic, that decision has been changed. Please keep this on topic, and if you want a thread discussing in depth the merits of former drivers on the grid, new threads are easy to start.


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:09 pm 
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DOLOMITE wrote:
Agreed that past Hamilton and Verstappen and (I think the jury will remain out) Vettel, it's definitely a case of only being best-of-the rest. I don't look at any of them and find myself screaming "someone give that man a better car!" Possible exception of Ricciardo maybe. Leclerc still too early and same for Russel and Norris maybe. I used to think Sainz was undervalued but I'm less convinced now. He's good, but can goes several races without really shining.
I do wonder how Vettel would be rated if people only tuned into F1 in 2014 and had no idea he was a 4 x WDC.


If you just look at 2014-2019, Vettel shouldn't even be top 5, he has been Perez-level. 2014 was horrendous. 2015-2016 was OK. 2017, he made mistakes and arguably threw away a championship. In 2018 he was beyond horrendous and definitely threw away a championship that was his to lose. 2019, he's pretty average. Going from 9 wins on the trot in 2013 to this. What a fall for that guy. I no longer consider him the same caliber as Hamilton or Verstappen.


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:13 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Vettel Fan wrote:
Surprised at how high some people rate Ricciardo. He looked good in a good RedBull car but not as good as Verstappen. He doesn't seem to look any better than Hulkenberg in a bad Renault.
There's not too many teams that have 1 driver that is vastly superior to the other. Seem like most of the driver are pretty equal and the equipment sets them apart. Everyone knows the standout drivers.


I think Ricciardo has done a fair bit better than Hulkenberg this season. He made a mistake in Baku but aside from that he's been consistently the better performing Renault driver.

I'm really not sure about this. Ricciardo first off in australia drove onto the grass when he could have just backed off and wrecked his race. Then did a very clumsy overtake on Hulkenberg in Bahrain in his usual lunging style. It often works, but that just looked silly. Luckily, no serious damage. The only time where I thought Ricciardo was obviously much better was Baku, but that was until another silly mistake. Even the latest race, Ricciardo did look good, but Hulkenberg was very unlucky and got a puncture from Leclerc. I'm not convinced there would have been much of a difference between the two by the end if not for this. I would say that Hulkenberg has certainly been the better of the two so far, but not by a huge margin.


I'm sorry I can't agree.

Australia - Hulk was better in quali. In the race Ricciardo went on to the grass to avoid another car that was turning towards him 99% of the time that would be ok.

Bahrain - Ricciardo qualifies way ahead. He didn't make a lunging overtake on Hulk. He was being passed and left his front wing in too long. Still a mistake but no lunging.

China - Ricciardo qualifies and races ahead.

Baku - Ricciardo again qualifies ahead. Makes a silly error in the race but he was up in the points. Hulk was miles off the pace the whole race.

Spain - Ricciardo qualifiers again by a big margin and finishes ahead.

Monaco - Ricciardo ahead in qualy again. Ricciardo was never going to beat him in the race. Both held up for most of it so race pace impossible to deduce. I'm baffled as to how you think he didn't look good? He was best of the rest until the safety car then was held up for almost the entire race.

Ricciardo has made more errors but when he's been clean he's always been ahead. A 5-1 quali battle shows that.


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PostPosted: Fri May 31, 2019 9:39 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
I'm sorry I can't agree.

Australia - Hulk was better in quali. In the race Ricciardo went on to the grass to avoid another car that was turning towards him 99% of the time that would be ok.

Bahrain - Ricciardo qualifies way ahead. He didn't make a lunging overtake on Hulk. He was being passed and left his front wing in too long. Still a mistake but no lunging.

China - Ricciardo qualifies and races ahead.

Baku - Ricciardo again qualifies ahead. Makes a silly error in the race but he was up in the points. Hulk was miles off the pace the whole race.

Spain - Ricciardo qualifiers again by a big margin and finishes ahead.

Monaco - Ricciardo ahead in qualy again. Ricciardo was never going to beat him in the race. Both held up for most of it so race pace impossible to deduce. I'm baffled as to how you think he didn't look good? He was best of the rest until the safety car then was held up for almost the entire race.

Ricciardo has made more errors but when he's been clean he's always been ahead. A 5-1 quali battle shows that.

Yeah, Dan took a few races to get to terms with the car, but ever since at least Baku he's looked comfortably ahead of Hulk by about the margin you expect from a top driver to a very good journeyman driver. He's lost some good finishes due to either strategy (arguably Bahrain, certainly Monaco) or errors (Baku), but I don't think there's any doubt who has been the better Renault driver on balance.

Clearly there is, however, since TheGiantHogweed said the same thing for the opposite driver! 8)

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:28 am 
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I think Max is the stand out driver so far and Kubica is probably the least. Bottas is on par with Hamilton very evenly matched so far except Bahrain. I do not think Renault drivers should be so high :? I would say STR drivers inspite of their experience are doing a better job instead.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:03 am 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
I think Max is the stand out driver so far and Kubica is probably the least. Bottas is on par with Hamilton very evenly matched so far except Bahrain. I do not think Renault drivers should be so high :? I would say STR drivers inspite of their experience are doing a better job instead.


It's not just based on this season.


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