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Rank the drivers in order of ability
Rank the drivers in order of ability 2%  2%  [ 56 ]
Albon 1%  1%  [ 30 ]
Albon_1 1%  1%  [ 19 ]
Albon_2 1%  1%  [ 30 ]
Albon_3 2%  2%  [ 39 ]
Albon_4 1%  1%  [ 15 ]
Bottas 1%  1%  [ 29 ]
Bottas_1 1%  1%  [ 28 ]
Bottas_2 2%  2%  [ 37 ]
Bottas_3 0%  0%  [ 9 ]
Bottas_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Gasly 1%  1%  [ 36 ]
Gasly_1 1%  1%  [ 24 ]
Gasly_2 1%  1%  [ 28 ]
Gasly_3 1%  1%  [ 31 ]
Gasly_4 1%  1%  [ 22 ]
Giovianzzi 1%  1%  [ 33 ]
Giovianzzi_1 2%  2%  [ 41 ]
Giovianzzi_2 1%  1%  [ 14 ]
Giovianzzi_3 0%  0%  [ 5 ]
Giovianzzi_4 2%  2%  [ 51 ]
Grosjean 1%  1%  [ 31 ]
Grosjean_1 1%  1%  [ 26 ]
Grosjean_2 1%  1%  [ 21 ]
Grosjean_3 1%  1%  [ 35 ]
Grosjean_4 1%  1%  [ 21 ]
Hamilton 2%  2%  [ 48 ]
Hamilton_1 1%  1%  [ 13 ]
Hamilton_2 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Hamilton_3 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Hamilton_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Hulkenberg 1%  1%  [ 27 ]
Hulkenberg_1 1%  1%  [ 28 ]
Hulkenberg_2 1%  1%  [ 31 ]
Hulkenberg_3 1%  1%  [ 31 ]
Hulkenberg_4 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Kubica 1%  1%  [ 15 ]
Kubica_1 1%  1%  [ 19 ]
Kubica_2 1%  1%  [ 35 ]
Kubica_3 0%  0%  [ 3 ]
Kubica_4 2%  2%  [ 52 ]
Kyvat 1%  1%  [ 27 ]
Kyvat_1 1%  1%  [ 30 ]
Kyvat_2 1%  1%  [ 34 ]
Kyvat_3 2%  2%  [ 43 ]
Kyvat_4 0%  0%  [ 12 ]
Leclerc 1%  1%  [ 26 ]
Leclerc_1 1%  1%  [ 24 ]
Leclerc_2 2%  2%  [ 40 ]
Leclerc_3 0%  0%  [ 10 ]
Leclerc_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Magnussen 1%  1%  [ 21 ]
Magnussen_1 1%  1%  [ 31 ]
Magnussen_2 1%  1%  [ 29 ]
Magnussen_3 2%  2%  [ 45 ]
Magnussen_4 0%  0%  [ 5 ]
Norris 1%  1%  [ 27 ]
Norris_1 1%  1%  [ 29 ]
Norris_2 1%  1%  [ 33 ]
Norris_3 2%  2%  [ 42 ]
Norris_4 0%  0%  [ 9 ]
Perez 1%  1%  [ 30 ]
Perez_1 1%  1%  [ 22 ]
Perez_2 1%  1%  [ 21 ]
Perez_3 1%  1%  [ 31 ]
Perez_4 0%  0%  [ 10 ]
Raikkonen 1%  1%  [ 26 ]
Raikkonen_1 1%  1%  [ 26 ]
Raikkonen_2 1%  1%  [ 26 ]
Raikkonen_3 2%  2%  [ 37 ]
Raikkonen_4 0%  0%  [ 3 ]
Ricciardo 1%  1%  [ 28 ]
Ricciardo_1 1%  1%  [ 26 ]
Ricciardo_2 1%  1%  [ 33 ]
Ricciardo_3 0%  0%  [ 8 ]
Ricciardo_4 0%  0%  [ 1 ]
Russell 1%  1%  [ 32 ]
Russell_1 1%  1%  [ 33 ]
Russell_2 1%  1%  [ 20 ]
Russell_3 1%  1%  [ 32 ]
Russell_4 1%  1%  [ 22 ]
Sainz 1%  1%  [ 24 ]
Sainz_1 1%  1%  [ 28 ]
Sainz_2 1%  1%  [ 22 ]
Sainz_3 2%  2%  [ 40 ]
Sainz_4 0%  0%  [ 5 ]
Stroll 1%  1%  [ 21 ]
Stroll_1 2%  2%  [ 39 ]
Stroll_2 0%  0%  [ 11 ]
Stroll_3 0%  0%  [ 4 ]
Stroll_4 2%  2%  [ 51 ]
Verstappen 1%  1%  [ 19 ]
Verstappen_1 2%  2%  [ 44 ]
Verstappen_2 0%  0%  [ 4 ]
Verstappen_3 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Verstappen_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Vettel 1%  1%  [ 30 ]
Vettel_1 1%  1%  [ 30 ]
Vettel_2 1%  1%  [ 34 ]
Vettel_3 0%  0%  [ 2 ]
Vettel_4 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 2408
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:49 am 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
I think Max is the stand out driver so far and Kubica is probably the least. Bottas is on par with Hamilton very evenly matched so far except Bahrain. I do not think Renault drivers should be so high :? I would say STR drivers inspite of their experience are doing a better job instead.


It's not just based on this season.


Mate, the reason why many are getting confused is because in the title it's mentioned 'Summer 2019'!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:37 am 
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Why is Max so highly regarded this year?

He is driving more conservatively for first time in his 5th year in F1.
He is now the team leader and responsible for bringing home the points.
He admitted to paying attention in testing for the first time in the preseason.
His team mate is a dreadful benchmark.
Ferrari are gifting positions to Max at every opportunity.

Is there a possibility that 2019 conservative Max is not as quick as win at all costs at every race Max we have seen for the last 4 years?
I don’t know what the hype is about.

I agree with others that the grid is the worst it has been in a long time.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2019 8:51 am 
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Randine wrote:
Why is Max so highly regarded this year?

He is driving more conservatively for first time in his 5th year in F1.
He is now the team leader and responsible for bringing home the points.
He admitted to paying attention in testing for the first time in the preseason.
His team mate is a dreadful benchmark.
Ferrari are gifting positions to Max at every opportunity.

Is there a possibility that 2019 conservative Max is not as quick as win at all costs at every race Max we have seen for the last 4 years?
I don’t know what the hype is about.

I agree with others that the grid is the worst it has been in a long time.


It's not just this season. Max has been brilliant for a year now. He cut the errors out after Monaco last year and was just as quick so I have no reason to believe he's slowed down now.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:05 am 
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Randine wrote:
Why is Max so highly regarded this year?

He is driving more conservatively for first time in his 5th year in F1.
He is now the team leader and responsible for bringing home the points.
He admitted to paying attention in testing for the first time in the preseason.
His team mate is a dreadful benchmark.
Ferrari are gifting positions to Max at every opportunity.

Is there a possibility that 2019 conservative Max is not as quick as win at all costs at every race Max we have seen for the last 4 years?
I don’t know what the hype is about.

I agree with others that the grid is the worst it has been in a long time.

Didn't he mess up the Italian GP last year, causing a collision with Bottas?

Edit: Sorry, this was going for the other post from mikeyg


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:22 am 
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Siao7 wrote:
Randine wrote:
Why is Max so highly regarded this year?

He is driving more conservatively for first time in his 5th year in F1.
He is now the team leader and responsible for bringing home the points.
He admitted to paying attention in testing for the first time in the preseason.
His team mate is a dreadful benchmark.
Ferrari are gifting positions to Max at every opportunity.

Is there a possibility that 2019 conservative Max is not as quick as win at all costs at every race Max we have seen for the last 4 years?
I don’t know what the hype is about.

I agree with others that the grid is the worst it has been in a long time.

Didn't he mess up the Italian GP last year, causing a collision with Bottas?

Edit: Sorry, this was going for the other post from mikeyg


IMO he didn't do anything wrong but others think differently. Even if you do think that's his fault it's very clear he cut out making a lot of the errors and his pace stayed the same.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:50 am 
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Posts: 7616
mikeyg123 wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
Randine wrote:
Why is Max so highly regarded this year?

He is driving more conservatively for first time in his 5th year in F1.
He is now the team leader and responsible for bringing home the points.
He admitted to paying attention in testing for the first time in the preseason.
His team mate is a dreadful benchmark.
Ferrari are gifting positions to Max at every opportunity.

Is there a possibility that 2019 conservative Max is not as quick as win at all costs at every race Max we have seen for the last 4 years?
I don’t know what the hype is about.

I agree with others that the grid is the worst it has been in a long time.

Didn't he mess up the Italian GP last year, causing a collision with Bottas?

Edit: Sorry, this was going for the other post from mikeyg


IMO he didn't do anything wrong but others think differently. Even if you do think that's his fault it's very clear he cut out making a lot of the errors and his pace stayed the same.

Oh absolutely, he's stopped the stupid mistakes and I;d agree he looks like the DOY so far, I just remembered that one and thought I'd add it.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:22 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
IMO he didn't do anything wrong but others think differently. Even if you do think that's his fault it's very clear he cut out making a lot of the errors and his pace stayed the same.

The initial incident may not have been too bad, but what he did after that (knowingly throwing away his own race to sabotage Bottas) showed that he hadn't quite gotten over his hot-headed driving.

We haven't seen any of that this year, however.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 2:24 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
IMO he didn't do anything wrong but others think differently. Even if you do think that's his fault it's very clear he cut out making a lot of the errors and his pace stayed the same.

The initial incident may not have been too bad, but what he did after that (knowingly throwing away his own race to sabotage Bottas) showed that he hadn't quite gotten over his hot-headed driving.

We haven't seen any of that this year, however.


I'll be honest, I can't really remember that!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 4:23 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
IMO he didn't do anything wrong but others think differently. Even if you do think that's his fault it's very clear he cut out making a lot of the errors and his pace stayed the same.

The initial incident may not have been too bad, but what he did after that (knowingly throwing away his own race to sabotage Bottas) showed that he hadn't quite gotten over his hot-headed driving.

We haven't seen any of that this year, however.


I'll be honest, I can't really remember that!

Didn't Verstappen have a 5 second penalty for hitting Bottas and he was so incensed he continued to race against Bottas even though it was somewhat futile because of his penalty, this allowed Vettel to close within 5 seconds of Verstappen thus finishing in front of him?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:16 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
IMO he didn't do anything wrong but others think differently. Even if you do think that's his fault it's very clear he cut out making a lot of the errors and his pace stayed the same.

The initial incident may not have been too bad, but what he did after that (knowingly throwing away his own race to sabotage Bottas) showed that he hadn't quite gotten over his hot-headed driving.

We haven't seen any of that this year, however.


I'll be honest, I can't really remember that!

Didn't Verstappen have a 5 second penalty for hitting Bottas and he was so incensed he continued to race against Bottas even though it was somewhat futile because of his penalty, this allowed Vettel to close within 5 seconds of Verstappen thus finishing in front of him?


How would that work?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:22 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
IMO he didn't do anything wrong but others think differently. Even if you do think that's his fault it's very clear he cut out making a lot of the errors and his pace stayed the same.

The initial incident may not have been too bad, but what he did after that (knowingly throwing away his own race to sabotage Bottas) showed that he hadn't quite gotten over his hot-headed driving.

We haven't seen any of that this year, however.


I'll be honest, I can't really remember that!

Didn't Verstappen have a 5 second penalty for hitting Bottas and he was so incensed he continued to race against Bottas even though it was somewhat futile because of his penalty, this allowed Vettel to close within 5 seconds of Verstappen thus finishing in front of him?


How would that work?

Verstappen slowed himself down fighting with Bottas which allowed Vettel to finish within 5 seconds of Verstappen.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:03 pm 
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pokerman wrote:
Verstappen slowed himself down fighting with Bottas which allowed Vettel to finish within 5 seconds of Verstappen.


I don't remember but I assume he was behind Bottas trying to pass? If so then surely he was trying to clear Bottas to enable him to hold a gap with Vettel? Otherwise he would be stuck at Bottas' pace?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:23 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Verstappen slowed himself down fighting with Bottas which allowed Vettel to finish within 5 seconds of Verstappen.


I don't remember but I assume he was behind Bottas trying to pass? If so then surely he was trying to clear Bottas to enable him to hold a gap with Vettel? Otherwise he would be stuck at Bottas' pace?


From memory, Verstappen was ahead. Bottas tried to pass. Verstappen blocked and got a 5 second penalty. Threw a tantrum. Lost time defending to Bottas which allowed Vettel to close within five seconds. If he'd let Bottas passed and off into the distance then he might have stayed ahead of Vettel.

I seem to remember Red Bull telling him to let Bottas past, but I could be wrong.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:25 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Verstappen slowed himself down fighting with Bottas which allowed Vettel to finish within 5 seconds of Verstappen.


I don't remember but I assume he was behind Bottas trying to pass? If so then surely he was trying to clear Bottas to enable him to hold a gap with Vettel? Otherwise he would be stuck at Bottas' pace?

Bottas was not slower than Verstappen. That is for certain. The overtaking difficulties was just making it hard for Botttas. He was between 1.5 and 0.5 or closer behind Verstappen the entire first stint. Lost a bit when pitting, but then instantly closed back up. It was really obvious that Bottas was faster and would have easily pulled away if he had got past. Verstappen should have been able to judge that given Bottas came out the pits 3.5 seconds behind him and soon closed to DRS range that he was faster. He then went to defensive against Bottas who was already there along side him. That got the gap down to 4.5 seconds. Then Bottas even after skidding on his tyres closed up to Verstappen just 5 laps later and got DRS. Even when Vettel got new tyres, he came out 13 seconds behind Bottas and dropped back to 14. This showed he was actually slower than Verstappen initially. Verstappen knew Bottas was faster. He also knew he had the penalty. But he went on being pointlessly defensive on Bottas clearly not caring about his penalty and Vettel was just getting ever closer. Vettel was now 8 seconds behind. Bottas would have got him without that overly defensive move that got him the penalty, but getting 5th place was totally his own fault. If he didn't keep fighting Bottas and Bottas got passed, Bottas will have pulled away and he will have been able to keep that 5 seconds ahead of Vettel. But due to Verstappen's constant defending, the gap to Vettel dropped to was 3.7 near the end.


Verstappen certainly hasn't had many poor moments in a year now, but this certainly was one of them. I guess you can have your own view on the penalty, but it certainly is a fact that it was pointless to defend Bottas, as if he didn't, he could have finished 4th not 5th. He even said "i know I'm losing time to Vettel but I really don't care". That is just stupid. Wasting some extra points for a team because he doens't care.....


Last edited by TheGiantHogweed on Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:30 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Verstappen slowed himself down fighting with Bottas which allowed Vettel to finish within 5 seconds of Verstappen.


I don't remember but I assume he was behind Bottas trying to pass? If so then surely he was trying to clear Bottas to enable him to hold a gap with Vettel? Otherwise he would be stuck at Bottas' pace?

Bottas was not slower than Verstappen. That is for certain. The overtaking difficulties was just making it hard for Botttas. He was between 1.5 and 0.5 or closer behind Verstappen the entire first stint. Lost a pit when pitting, but then instantly closed back up. It was really obvious that Bottas was faster and would have easily pulled away if he had got past. Verstappen should have been able to judge that given Bottas came out the pits 3.5 seconds behind him and soon closed to DRS range that he was faster. He then went to defensive against Bottas who was already there. That got the gap down to 4.5 seconds. Then Bottas even after skidding on his tyres closed up to Verstappen, 5 laps later, Bottas was within DRS again. Vettel was 8 seconds behind. But Verstappen knew Bottas was faster. He also knew he had the penalty. But he went on being pointlessly defensive on Bottas clearly not caring about his penalty and Vettel was just getting ever closer. Bottas would have got him without that overly defensive move that got him the penalty, but getting 5th place was totally his own fault. If he didn't keep fighting Bottas and Bottas got passed, Bottas will have pulled away and he will have been able to keep that 5 seconds ahead of Vettel.


Verstappen certainly ahsn't had many poor moments in a year now, but this certainly was one of them. I guess you can have your own view on the penalty, but it certainly is a fact that it was pointless to defend Bottas, as if he didn't, he could have finished 4th not 5th.


Ahh OK Bottas was behind him. Does that not beg the question why Bottas was trying to overtake someone he was already technically ahead of? Surely he would've done better to just sit in behind Verstappen and not take the risk?


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:43 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Verstappen slowed himself down fighting with Bottas which allowed Vettel to finish within 5 seconds of Verstappen.


I don't remember but I assume he was behind Bottas trying to pass? If so then surely he was trying to clear Bottas to enable him to hold a gap with Vettel? Otherwise he would be stuck at Bottas' pace?

Bottas was not slower than Verstappen. That is for certain. The overtaking difficulties was just making it hard for Botttas. He was between 1.5 and 0.5 or closer behind Verstappen the entire first stint. Lost a pit when pitting, but then instantly closed back up. It was really obvious that Bottas was faster and would have easily pulled away if he had got past. Verstappen should have been able to judge that given Bottas came out the pits 3.5 seconds behind him and soon closed to DRS range that he was faster. He then went to defensive against Bottas who was already there. That got the gap down to 4.5 seconds. Then Bottas even after skidding on his tyres closed up to Verstappen, 5 laps later, Bottas was within DRS again. Vettel was 8 seconds behind. But Verstappen knew Bottas was faster. He also knew he had the penalty. But he went on being pointlessly defensive on Bottas clearly not caring about his penalty and Vettel was just getting ever closer. Bottas would have got him without that overly defensive move that got him the penalty, but getting 5th place was totally his own fault. If he didn't keep fighting Bottas and Bottas got passed, Bottas will have pulled away and he will have been able to keep that 5 seconds ahead of Vettel.


Verstappen certainly ahsn't had many poor moments in a year now, but this certainly was one of them. I guess you can have your own view on the penalty, but it certainly is a fact that it was pointless to defend Bottas, as if he didn't, he could have finished 4th not 5th.


Ahh OK Bottas was behind him. Does that not beg the question why Bottas was trying to overtake someone he was already technically ahead of? Surely he would've done better to just sit in behind Verstappen and not take the risk?

Bottas never took any big risks after he knew Verstappen had the penalty. But he did clearly let verstappen know he was there quite a few times. He didn't get anywhere near as close to getting an overtake done as earlier on so I think Bottas did ok there. But Verstappen really messed up his result as he did keep changing his line trying to prevent Bottas sneaking past. I had edited my post adding what he said on the team radio and a few other things if you want to look back. It shows that there were signs of him being very immature again this time. I have all the races recorded from the past 4 seasons so that is how i look into them to remember what happened :lol:


Last edited by TheGiantHogweed on Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 7:45 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Verstappen slowed himself down fighting with Bottas which allowed Vettel to finish within 5 seconds of Verstappen.


I don't remember but I assume he was behind Bottas trying to pass? If so then surely he was trying to clear Bottas to enable him to hold a gap with Vettel? Otherwise he would be stuck at Bottas' pace?

Bottas was not slower than Verstappen. That is for certain. The overtaking difficulties was just making it hard for Botttas. He was between 1.5 and 0.5 or closer behind Verstappen the entire first stint. Lost a pit when pitting, but then instantly closed back up. It was really obvious that Bottas was faster and would have easily pulled away if he had got past. Verstappen should have been able to judge that given Bottas came out the pits 3.5 seconds behind him and soon closed to DRS range that he was faster. He then went to defensive against Bottas who was already there. That got the gap down to 4.5 seconds. Then Bottas even after skidding on his tyres closed up to Verstappen, 5 laps later, Bottas was within DRS again. Vettel was 8 seconds behind. But Verstappen knew Bottas was faster. He also knew he had the penalty. But he went on being pointlessly defensive on Bottas clearly not caring about his penalty and Vettel was just getting ever closer. Bottas would have got him without that overly defensive move that got him the penalty, but getting 5th place was totally his own fault. If he didn't keep fighting Bottas and Bottas got passed, Bottas will have pulled away and he will have been able to keep that 5 seconds ahead of Vettel.


Verstappen certainly ahsn't had many poor moments in a year now, but this certainly was one of them. I guess you can have your own view on the penalty, but it certainly is a fact that it was pointless to defend Bottas, as if he didn't, he could have finished 4th not 5th.


Ahh OK Bottas was behind him. Does that not beg the question why Bottas was trying to overtake someone he was already technically ahead of? Surely he would've done better to just sit in behind Verstappen and not take the risk?


I think Bottas might have had a shot at getting Kimi if he'd got past Verstappen quickly


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:21 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Verstappen slowed himself down fighting with Bottas which allowed Vettel to finish within 5 seconds of Verstappen.


I don't remember but I assume he was behind Bottas trying to pass? If so then surely he was trying to clear Bottas to enable him to hold a gap with Vettel? Otherwise he would be stuck at Bottas' pace?

Bottas was not slower than Verstappen. That is for certain. The overtaking difficulties was just making it hard for Botttas. He was between 1.5 and 0.5 or closer behind Verstappen the entire first stint. Lost a pit when pitting, but then instantly closed back up. It was really obvious that Bottas was faster and would have easily pulled away if he had got past. Verstappen should have been able to judge that given Bottas came out the pits 3.5 seconds behind him and soon closed to DRS range that he was faster. He then went to defensive against Bottas who was already there. That got the gap down to 4.5 seconds. Then Bottas even after skidding on his tyres closed up to Verstappen, 5 laps later, Bottas was within DRS again. Vettel was 8 seconds behind. But Verstappen knew Bottas was faster. He also knew he had the penalty. But he went on being pointlessly defensive on Bottas clearly not caring about his penalty and Vettel was just getting ever closer. Bottas would have got him without that overly defensive move that got him the penalty, but getting 5th place was totally his own fault. If he didn't keep fighting Bottas and Bottas got passed, Bottas will have pulled away and he will have been able to keep that 5 seconds ahead of Vettel.


Verstappen certainly ahsn't had many poor moments in a year now, but this certainly was one of them. I guess you can have your own view on the penalty, but it certainly is a fact that it was pointless to defend Bottas, as if he didn't, he could have finished 4th not 5th.


Ahh OK Bottas was behind him. Does that not beg the question why Bottas was trying to overtake someone he was already technically ahead of? Surely he would've done better to just sit in behind Verstappen and not take the risk?

Bottas never took any big risks after he knew Verstappen had the penalty. But he did clearly let verstappen know he was there quite a few times. He didn't get anywhere near as close to getting an overtake done as earlier on so I think Bottas did ok there. But Verstappen really messed up his result as he did keep changing his line trying to prevent Bottas sneaking past. I had edited my post adding what he said on the team radio and a few other things if you want to look back. It shows that there were signs of him being very immature again this time. I have all the races recorded from the past 4 seasons so that is how i look into them to remember what happened :lol:


Fair enough


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2019 10:31 pm 
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mikeyg123 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
Verstappen slowed himself down fighting with Bottas which allowed Vettel to finish within 5 seconds of Verstappen.


I don't remember but I assume he was behind Bottas trying to pass? If so then surely he was trying to clear Bottas to enable him to hold a gap with Vettel? Otherwise he would be stuck at Bottas' pace?

No he was in front of Bottas and holding Bottas up who was quicker, but by driving defensively he was going slower and gained nothing by doing this because of his 5 second penalty, but he did lose a position to Vettel.

I do realise other people have explained it now so no need to reply.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:05 pm 
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This is based on a combination of cross comparisons and my general impression.

Tier 1: Hamilton = Verstappen
Tier 2: Vettel = Ricciardo
Tier 3: Bottas = Hulkenberg = Perez = Leclerc
Tier 4: Sainz = Magnussen = Grosjean = Raikkonen = Norris = Gasly = Kvyat = Russell
Tier 5: Kubica = Gio = Stroll = Albon


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:09 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
This is based on a combination of cross comparisons and my general impression.

Tier 1: Hamilton = Verstappen
Tier 2: Vettel = Ricciardo
Tier 3: Bottas = Hulkenberg = Perez = Leclerc
Tier 4: Sainz = Magnussen = Grosjean = Raikkonen = Norris = Gasly = Kvyat = Russell
Tier 5: Kubica = Gio = Stroll = Albon



Can't really disagree, though I think it's very hard to judge Russell especially right now. I suspect he might be much handier than we realise but there's not much chance to really figure this out for the foreseeable future.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:15 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
This is based on a combination of cross comparisons and my general impression.

Tier 1: Hamilton = Verstappen
Tier 2: Vettel = Ricciardo
Tier 3: Bottas = Hulkenberg = Perez = Leclerc
Tier 4: Sainz = Magnussen = Grosjean = Raikkonen = Norris = Gasly = Kvyat = Russell
Tier 5: Kubica = Gio = Stroll = Albon

Nah. For me, you can't put Max even with Hamilton nor can you put Albon beneath the likes of Norris, Russel and Sainz. In fact your whole Tier 3 is comparable to tier 4 for me and Albon belongs in it. I think Ricciardo and Vettel are tough to peg. I suppose ranking them as even is okay but it must be said that they did not perform evenly in the same car when they were teammates.

For me, with Alonso retired, instead of a Big 5 we now have a Big 4. It's Hamilton, Vettel, Verstappen and Ricciardo as the clear best drivers in F1. I am not quick to try to peg Leclerc though as I think that he is having a bumpy first year at Ferrari so far and I expect things to improve for him. We might have a Big 5 again before long but that remains to be seen.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:18 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
Nah. For me, you can't put Max even with Hamilton

Ricciardo is comfortably quicker than Hulkenberg

Verstappen was comfortably quicker than Ricciardo towards the end of their time together.

That gives you some idea of just how fast Max is. For what it's worth, I rate Hulkenberg no lower than Bottas.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:32 pm 
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KingVoid wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Nah. For me, you can't put Max even with Hamilton

Ricciardo is comfortably quicker than Hulkenberg

Verstappen was comfortably quicker than Ricciardo towards the end of their time together.

That gives you some idea of just how fast Max is. For what it's worth, I rate Hulkenberg no lower than Bottas.

Max is certainly very fast but to claim that he's Hamilton's equal means more than just saying that you think he's as fast as Lewis. I actually wouldn't be shocked if Max has Lewis's speed. Max is really the only driver in the field who I think might be a match for Hamilton in terms of raw pace but does he have Lewis's racecraft? Does he have his decision-making or his ability to deliver under pressure? Does he have Lewis's consistency? Above all; can he maintain those attributes when there are championships on the line and the pressure is really ratcheted up?

You have to make a great many assumptions to put Max on level pegging with Hamilton at this stage. For me, he has to prove it, I'm not just going to hand it to him. Lewis has 100% proven himself. With Max, you are taking a logical leap.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:32 pm 
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I might bump Albon into your tier 4 and Sainz into your tier 3.

Also with Hamilton vs Verstappen I'd kinda do it like in boxing where Hamilton is the Champion and Max is the number one challenger.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:42 pm 
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Maybe I just don’t pay enough attention to Toro Rosso. Has Albon matched Kvyat this year?

Sainz in tier 3 is not a bad shout. I seriously considered placing him there.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:26 pm 
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Albon has shown some potential but IMO is getting overrated. I think Kvyat has looked the better so far and Kvyat hasn't looked better than any of his previous F1 team mates.

Sainz is a good solid midfield driver. Matched Hulk through the second half of last season.


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