planetf1.com

It is currently Sun Sep 15, 2019 10:17 am

All times are UTC


Forum rules


Please read the forum rules



Post new topic Reply to topic

What did you think?
Acceptable: emotions were understandably running high 53%  53%  [ 44 ]
Didn't go far enough: he should have boycotted the podium entirely 8%  8%  [ 7 ]
Unacceptable: regardless of the rights/wrongs of the penalty 27%  27%  [ 22 ]
Completely unacceptable: brings the sport into disrepute 5%  5%  [ 4 ]
Other 7%  7%  [ 6 ]
Total votes : 83
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32501
Asphalt_World wrote:
And now we have a third claiming he brought the sport in to disrepute! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My god, these people must have had minimal viewing of other sports over the years if they think this is so bad!

Well you always have the two extremes, some think that Vettel did nothing wrong. ;)

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6800
F1Oz wrote:
Clear that Vettel's drive was equal to Hamilton vs Ricciardo in 2016 - except Hamilton failed to make chicane (and should have been penalised) - and Hamilton could clearly have given room and decided not to - versus vettel who had little choice - I'm no vettel fan as my posts over time would show - but Hamilton SHOULD have been penaised (twice) - Vettel - dubious

Hamilton should be feeling awkward - he is clearly hypocritical -

No that is false. Watch this video which breaks down both incidents (as well as Max's incident in Japan last year) in detail. Let's see if you are willing to accept the facts.



Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 7240
Location: Michigan, USA
sandman1347 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
Clear that Vettel's drive was equal to Hamilton vs Ricciardo in 2016 - except Hamilton failed to make chicane (and should have been penalised) - and Hamilton could clearly have given room and decided not to - versus vettel who had little choice - I'm no vettel fan as my posts over time would show - but Hamilton SHOULD have been penaised (twice) - Vettel - dubious

Hamilton should be feeling awkward - he is clearly hypocritical -

No that is false. Watch this video which breaks down both incidents (as well as Max's incident in Japan last year) in detail. Let's see if you are willing to accept the facts.

The crowding or lack thereof aside, I really think both drivers (Vettel in Canada, Hamilton in Monaco) shouldn't have been able to keep their position. If you cut the track and stay ahead, you've cheated.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:06 am 
Offline

Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 7:55 pm
Posts: 6800
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
Clear that Vettel's drive was equal to Hamilton vs Ricciardo in 2016 - except Hamilton failed to make chicane (and should have been penalised) - and Hamilton could clearly have given room and decided not to - versus vettel who had little choice - I'm no vettel fan as my posts over time would show - but Hamilton SHOULD have been penaised (twice) - Vettel - dubious

Hamilton should be feeling awkward - he is clearly hypocritical -

No that is false. Watch this video which breaks down both incidents (as well as Max's incident in Japan last year) in detail. Let's see if you are willing to accept the facts.

The crowding or lack thereof aside, I really think both drivers (Vettel in Canada, Hamilton in Monaco) shouldn't have been able to keep their position. If you cut the track and stay ahead, you've cheated.

As the video shows clearly; Hamilton rejoined the track safely and without causing another driver to take avoiding action. That's what the rule says you must do. When Vettel rejoined the track, he forced another driver to take avoiding action. It's really that simple. There's a debate to be had about not liking the rule but saying the stewards got it wrong is just not correct.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 23, 2014 3:53 am
Posts: 7240
Location: Michigan, USA
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
Clear that Vettel's drive was equal to Hamilton vs Ricciardo in 2016 - except Hamilton failed to make chicane (and should have been penalised) - and Hamilton could clearly have given room and decided not to - versus vettel who had little choice - I'm no vettel fan as my posts over time would show - but Hamilton SHOULD have been penaised (twice) - Vettel - dubious

Hamilton should be feeling awkward - he is clearly hypocritical -

No that is false. Watch this video which breaks down both incidents (as well as Max's incident in Japan last year) in detail. Let's see if you are willing to accept the facts.

The crowding or lack thereof aside, I really think both drivers (Vettel in Canada, Hamilton in Monaco) shouldn't have been able to keep their position. If you cut the track and stay ahead, you've cheated.

As the video shows clearly; Hamilton rejoined the track safely and without causing another driver to take avoiding action. That's what the rule says you must do. When Vettel rejoined the track, he forced another driver to take avoiding action. It's really that simple. There's a debate to be had about not liking the rule but saying the stewards got it wrong is just not correct.

And the debate about the rule being rubbish is what I'm having, not the one about the stewards' ruling.

Case in point, Rosberg in Canada 2015. He rejoined the track without forcing anyone to take evasive action, but he blatantly cut the chicane and not only gained a position, he set fastest lap. Is this somehow correct racing just because he didn't threaten to hit anyone else? No, of course not. If you cut the track because you couldn't make the corner, you should lose something for it. If you did it while actively defending your position, you should lose that position.

_________________
PICK 10 COMPETITION (4 wins, 15 podiums): 3rd in 2016
TOP THREE CHAMPIONSHIP (No Limit Excedrin Racing): Champions in 2015 & 2018 | 2nd in 2017
AUTOSPORT GP PREDICTOR: 2017 USA & P-F1 Champion | #2 in the world in 2017


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:13 pm
Posts: 389
F1 would be more boring without Vettel.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:26 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32501
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
Clear that Vettel's drive was equal to Hamilton vs Ricciardo in 2016 - except Hamilton failed to make chicane (and should have been penalised) - and Hamilton could clearly have given room and decided not to - versus vettel who had little choice - I'm no vettel fan as my posts over time would show - but Hamilton SHOULD have been penaised (twice) - Vettel - dubious

Hamilton should be feeling awkward - he is clearly hypocritical -

No that is false. Watch this video which breaks down both incidents (as well as Max's incident in Japan last year) in detail. Let's see if you are willing to accept the facts.

The crowding or lack thereof aside, I really think both drivers (Vettel in Canada, Hamilton in Monaco) shouldn't have been able to keep their position. If you cut the track and stay ahead, you've cheated.

That's interesting because in Monaco 2016 Massa totally cut the chicane as in straight lined it when under pressure from another car but wasn't penalised, that kind of comes under do that again and you will be penalised, Vettel didn't get penalised for cutting the chicane in Canada.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 32501
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
Exediron wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
F1Oz wrote:
Clear that Vettel's drive was equal to Hamilton vs Ricciardo in 2016 - except Hamilton failed to make chicane (and should have been penalised) - and Hamilton could clearly have given room and decided not to - versus vettel who had little choice - I'm no vettel fan as my posts over time would show - but Hamilton SHOULD have been penaised (twice) - Vettel - dubious

Hamilton should be feeling awkward - he is clearly hypocritical -

No that is false. Watch this video which breaks down both incidents (as well as Max's incident in Japan last year) in detail. Let's see if you are willing to accept the facts.

The crowding or lack thereof aside, I really think both drivers (Vettel in Canada, Hamilton in Monaco) shouldn't have been able to keep their position. If you cut the track and stay ahead, you've cheated.

As the video shows clearly; Hamilton rejoined the track safely and without causing another driver to take avoiding action. That's what the rule says you must do. When Vettel rejoined the track, he forced another driver to take avoiding action. It's really that simple. There's a debate to be had about not liking the rule but saying the stewards got it wrong is just not correct.

And the debate about the rule being rubbish is what I'm having, not the one about the stewards' ruling.

Case in point, Rosberg in Canada 2015. He rejoined the track without forcing anyone to take evasive action, but he blatantly cut the chicane and not only gained a position, he set fastest lap. Is this somehow correct racing just because he didn't threaten to hit anyone else? No, of course not. If you cut the track because you couldn't make the corner, you should lose something for it. If you did it while actively defending your position, you should lose that position.

Nominally drivers get a warning for doing that, do it again and you get penalised.

_________________
PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 26th

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:56 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:48 pm
Posts: 3249
Location: UK
Asphalt_World wrote:
And now we have a third claiming he brought the sport in to disrepute! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My god, these people must have had minimal viewing of other sports over the years if they think this is so bad!

The problem is not so much what Vettel did, it's what it might lead to in the future. I don't want any of this rubbish in F1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buwrTL3XRFo

Sure it's a long, long way from what Vettel has done but it demonstrates what you can end up with when a culture of disrespect to the officials is condoned. When some impressionable youngsters in karting watch Vettel having a tantrum or telling the race director to eff off you can be sure that some of them will do the same. And then some of them will end up in F1 someday with the same attitude, and it all snowballs from there. We should be very wary of normalising that sort of behaviour.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 7621
j man wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
And now we have a third claiming he brought the sport in to disrepute! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My god, these people must have had minimal viewing of other sports over the years if they think this is so bad!

The problem is not so much what Vettel did, it's what it might lead to in the future. I don't want any of this rubbish in F1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buwrTL3XRFo

Sure it's a long, long way from what Vettel has done but it demonstrates what you can end up with when a culture of disrespect to the officials is condoned. When some impressionable youngsters in karting watch Vettel having a tantrum or telling the race director to eff off you can be sure that some of them will do the same. And then some of them will end up in F1 someday with the same attitude, and it all snowballs from there. We should be very wary of normalising that sort of behaviour.

That's quite a jump from switching the boards in protest to physically attacking/harming the stewards


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 9:39 pm
Posts: 3543
j man wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
And now we have a third claiming he brought the sport in to disrepute! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My god, these people must have had minimal viewing of other sports over the years if they think this is so bad!

The problem is not so much what Vettel did, it's what it might lead to in the future. I don't want any of this rubbish in F1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buwrTL3XRFo

Sure it's a long, long way from what Vettel has done but it demonstrates what you can end up with when a culture of disrespect to the officials is condoned. When some impressionable youngsters in karting watch Vettel having a tantrum or telling the race director to eff off you can be sure that some of them will do the same. And then some of them will end up in F1 someday with the same attitude, and it all snowballs from there. We should be very wary of normalising that sort of behaviour.

To be honest, if this is something that could become a problem, then the first blame should be with Liberty for broadcasting the messages in the first place. It's unreasonable to expect drivers high on adrenaline not to radio in expletive riddled messages when they feel they have been wronged, however if it is considered this behaviour could encourage younger drivers to be influenced by it then Liberty shouldn't be choosing to broadcast it.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 6:08 pm
Posts: 4100
j man wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
And now we have a third claiming he brought the sport in to disrepute! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My god, these people must have had minimal viewing of other sports over the years if they think this is so bad!

The problem is not so much what Vettel did, it's what it might lead to in the future. I don't want any of this rubbish in F1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buwrTL3XRFo

Sure it's a long, long way from what Vettel has done but it demonstrates what you can end up with when a culture of disrespect to the officials is condoned. When some impressionable youngsters in karting watch Vettel having a tantrum or telling the race director to eff off you can be sure that some of them will do the same. And then some of them will end up in F1 someday with the same attitude, and it all snowballs from there. We should be very wary of normalising that sort of behaviour.


Vettel didn't do or say anything whatsoever that brought the sport in to disrepute. I've seen drivers have a go at each other post race or post crash. I've seen other things too.

_________________
Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely. [Lord Acton]
My own Google Earth Motor Sport file. http://www.mediafire.com/?jzm1ieatytv
Follow me @asphalt_world


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:48 pm
Posts: 3249
Location: UK
Siao7 wrote:
j man wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
And now we have a third claiming he brought the sport in to disrepute! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My god, these people must have had minimal viewing of other sports over the years if they think this is so bad!

The problem is not so much what Vettel did, it's what it might lead to in the future. I don't want any of this rubbish in F1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buwrTL3XRFo

Sure it's a long, long way from what Vettel has done but it demonstrates what you can end up with when a culture of disrespect to the officials is condoned. When some impressionable youngsters in karting watch Vettel having a tantrum or telling the race director to eff off you can be sure that some of them will do the same. And then some of them will end up in F1 someday with the same attitude, and it all snowballs from there. We should be very wary of normalising that sort of behaviour.

That's quite a jump from switching the boards in protest to physically attacking/harming the stewards

It is yes, and is a rare event even in football (though more common at amateur level where the eyes of the world are not watching). I was more trying to highlight my main frustration with football which is the constant sight of players haranguing the referee when any decision is made against their team.

Like I said previously I don't have a massively strong opinion on the matter, but I don't think it is the sort of behaviour that should be encouraged. What Vettel did in Canada was harmless, but I was trying to highlight that if gone unchecked these things can gradually escalate over the years until you do get the situation football finds itself in where a culture of disrespect has taken hold that cannot be stamped out.

Plenty of sports manage to be commercially successful without having to resort to this sort of pantomime to generate interest. Rugby, for instance.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:18 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue May 05, 2009 11:31 am
Posts: 7621
j man wrote:
Siao7 wrote:
j man wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
And now we have a third claiming he brought the sport in to disrepute! :lol: :lol: :lol:

My god, these people must have had minimal viewing of other sports over the years if they think this is so bad!

The problem is not so much what Vettel did, it's what it might lead to in the future. I don't want any of this rubbish in F1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buwrTL3XRFo

Sure it's a long, long way from what Vettel has done but it demonstrates what you can end up with when a culture of disrespect to the officials is condoned. When some impressionable youngsters in karting watch Vettel having a tantrum or telling the race director to eff off you can be sure that some of them will do the same. And then some of them will end up in F1 someday with the same attitude, and it all snowballs from there. We should be very wary of normalising that sort of behaviour.

That's quite a jump from switching the boards in protest to physically attacking/harming the stewards

It is yes, and is a rare event even in football (though more common at amateur level where the eyes of the world are not watching). I was more trying to highlight my main frustration with football which is the constant sight of players haranguing the referee when any decision is made against their team.

Like I said previously I don't have a massively strong opinion on the matter, but I don't think it is the sort of behaviour that should be encouraged. What Vettel did in Canada was harmless, but I was trying to highlight that if gone unchecked these things can gradually escalate over the years until you do get the situation football finds itself in where a culture of disrespect has taken hold that cannot be stamped out.

Plenty of sports manage to be commercially successful without having to resort to this sort of pantomime to generate interest. Rugby, for instance.

Yeah, playing sports myself I agree that the adrenaline is high and eyes get red misted when you are pouring your whole soul into something just to see someone demolish it with a decision you do not agree. I think that the difference with F1 is that they do not have the "refs" in front of them like in football, tennis or basketball, so they will not just hound them after a decision. So in this way the F1 stewards are protected, normally the drivers cool down way before they have an interaction (if at all) with them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Jun 19, 2019 2:45 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 05, 2010 6:33 pm
Posts: 10279
Location: Ireland
pendulumeffect wrote:
F1 would be more boring without Vettel.

I'd say that for all of the top drivers. It's more boring now without Alonso

_________________
I don't rely entirely on God
ImageImage
I rely on Prost


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Schumacher forever#1 and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group