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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:40 pm 
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BlackMan wrote:
Controversy aside, Honda is once again on the top step of the podium in F1. That deserves some respect.


Yes, this should be huge motivation for them. There were couple of scares with software or sensor issues but I think last 10 laps or so he was allowed to use full engine power. I think engine will improve and Max will fight for the title next year.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:50 pm 
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BlackMan wrote:
Controversy aside, Honda is once again on the top step of the podium in F1. That deserves some respect.


Wonder how McLaren are feeling tonight?


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:54 pm 
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sidders wrote:
BlackMan wrote:
Controversy aside, Honda is once again on the top step of the podium in F1. That deserves some respect.


Wonder how McLaren are feeling tonight?

Probably not too bad, considering they are best of the rest so far in 2019 after another solid double points finish. That said, yeah, they gave up works team status and Honda are in the ascendancy. Make no mistake; neither Renault nor even Ferrari or Mercedes can outspend Honda on engine development. I'd watch the Red Bull Honda team closely from now until the beginning of next year. They might be the team to overthrow Mercedes. Just our luck, it would happen in the last year of the technical era.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:55 pm 
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sidders wrote:
BlackMan wrote:
Controversy aside, Honda is once again on the top step of the podium in F1. That deserves some respect.


Wonder how McLaren are feeling tonight?

Pretty great I'd say. They had a fantastic result. Honda and McLaren just didn't work. They're both clearly much better off without each other

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:56 pm 
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sidders wrote:
BlackMan wrote:
Controversy aside, Honda is once again on the top step of the podium in F1. That deserves some respect.


Wonder how McLaren are feeling tonight?


McLaren?

What about Ferrari?
2 races in a row they come out on the short end of things.

On the other hand, see what happens when the racing gods frown on Mercedes......Racing gold.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:13 pm 
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shoot999 wrote:
And I think Leclerc believes he has the measure of Vettel at Ferrari.

I don't think that he can think that way. Vettel was in more races better than him.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:07 pm 
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Good race. A lot of things came together and the circuit, temperature, penalties, kerbs and a few mistakes mixed the grid up in a fortuitous way.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:18 pm 
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Was I the only fan who was surprised by how much of the time we were looking at the open DRS-letterboxes? Goodness, it's hard enough to enjoy racing with this abberation, but to have to watch it open just about all the time spoils it all.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:19 pm 
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Red Bull really do have a dilemma now with Gasly. They are 59 points behind Ferrari in the constructors championship.

By my calculations Red Bull would have 25 points more had Gasly managed to simply achieve the "big three bare minimum" of 6th place in all the races he finished (discounting Monaco where he was 5th and of course Azerbaijan where his driveshaft failed).


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:24 pm 
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Ferrari have said they won't appeal, I think this the reason why:



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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:29 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Ferrari have said they won't appeal, I think this the reason why:



Then why did Max leave room the previous lap if the expectation is that the outside driver will simply move off the circuit to wave you through?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:34 pm 
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Asphalt_World wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Ferrari have said they won't appeal, I think this the reason why:



Then why did Max leave room the previous lap if the expectation is that the outside driver will simply move off the circuit to wave you through?


I think the joke was about who did that analysis.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:36 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Ferrari have said they won't appeal, I think this the reason why:



I like Karun's thinking here, the leaving a cars width is why we now have drivers driving into a closing gap.

Once you defend the outside you end up running out of space.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:38 pm 
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Flash2k11 wrote:
Asphalt_World wrote:
Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Ferrari have said they won't appeal, I think this the reason why:



Then why did Max leave room the previous lap if the expectation is that the outside driver will simply move off the circuit to wave you through?


I think the joke was about who did that analysis.


Aha, I'm with you now. Cheers

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:56 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Ferrari have said they won't appeal, I think this the reason why:


Their unofficial rules consultant :lol:

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:04 pm 
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mcdo wrote:
sidders wrote:
BlackMan wrote:
Controversy aside, Honda is once again on the top step of the podium in F1. That deserves some respect.

Wonder how McLaren are feeling tonight?

Pretty great I'd say. They had a fantastic result. Honda and McLaren just didn't work. They're both clearly much better off without each other

As a McLaren fan, I'm feeling pretty good. Verstappen won last year at the same track with a Renault - what reason is there to think Honda had anything to do with it?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:12 pm 
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Exediron wrote:
mcdo wrote:
sidders wrote:
BlackMan wrote:
Controversy aside, Honda is once again on the top step of the podium in F1. That deserves some respect.

Wonder how McLaren are feeling tonight?

Pretty great I'd say. They had a fantastic result. Honda and McLaren just didn't work. They're both clearly much better off without each other

As a McLaren fan, I'm feeling pretty good. Verstappen won last year at the same track with a Renault - what reason is there to think Honda had anything to do with it?

The Mercs were out last year and it was kind of lucky. This year he was the best package out there.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:05 pm 
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Well, after watching a video of the incident, I am again, less than impressed with Max. He deliberately ran Leclerc off the track and left him no room. This is pretty similar to Hamilton vs Rosberg at the same bloody track in 2016, with Rosberg getting a penalty for that effort if my memory serves me. Max was in complete control of the car and simply let the car drift to the Left, leaving Leclerc with a diminishing space to race. Personally, if it'd been me, I'd have not moved left and stayed on track and let Max crash into me. But hey, Max is, and always will be, a thug.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:11 pm 
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dpastern wrote:
Well, after watching a video of the incident, I am again, less than impressed with Max. He deliberately ran Leclerc off the track and left him no room. This is pretty similar to Hamilton vs Rosberg at the same bloody track in 2016, with Rosberg getting a penalty for that effort if my memory serves me. Max was in complete control of the car and simply let the car drift to the Left, leaving Leclerc with a diminishing space to race. Personally, if it'd been me, I'd have not moved left and stayed on track and let Max crash into me. But hey, Max is, and always will be, a thug.

Rosberg didn't get a penalty for the move - he got a penalty for rejoining and putting bits of his wing all over the track. In his case, Hamilton turned into him more forcefully and his car got damaged.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:32 pm 
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It seems like every time I start thinking that Max has turned the corner and matured into a more fair racer he does something like this. Otherwise a great race, though; plenty of close action, a real question of who's going to be where on the podium, and several good battles. It's nice to see McLaren doing reasonably well again also.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:36 pm 
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Remmirath wrote:
It seems like every time I start thinking that Max has turned the corner and matured into a more fair racer he does something like this. Otherwise a great race, though; plenty of close action, a real question of who's going to be where on the podium, and several good battles. It's nice to see McLaren doing reasonably well again also.


Max is the new Schumacher. Dirty AF.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:59 pm 
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Remmirath wrote:
It seems like every time I start thinking that Max has turned the corner and matured into a more fair racer he does something like this. Otherwise a great race, though; plenty of close action, a real question of who's going to be where on the podium, and several good battles. It's nice to see McLaren doing reasonably well again also.


This is the problem i still see with Verstappen. He has done at least 2 moves this year that could have resulted in a puncture or worse. If he had waited a bit longer, he would have easily got by leclerc anyway. Verstappen had these risky moves have bad consequences last year at the start. He's still doing them every now and then now but having a rather lucky escape. The rest of his drive was incredible, but I think given that could have ruined his race if there was contact in just a slightly different way, that was a really poor decision what he did. Pure luck for both drivers to get away without damage.

verstappen is quick enough for him to be able to overtake without needing to do these sort of moves a bit earlier most of the time. If he continues like this, he's still going to end up having some end badly. This is what makes me think he just isn't at hamilton's level yet. Speedwise, he's probably there by now but he needs to work on cleaner overtakes and defending if he expects them to always work.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:04 pm 
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TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Remmirath wrote:
It seems like every time I start thinking that Max has turned the corner and matured into a more fair racer he does something like this. Otherwise a great race, though; plenty of close action, a real question of who's going to be where on the podium, and several good battles. It's nice to see McLaren doing reasonably well again also.


This is the problem i still see with Verstappen. He has done at least 2 moves this year that could have resulted in a puncture or worse. If he had waited a bit longer, he would have easily got by leclerc anyway. Verstappen had these risky moves have bad consequences last year at the start. He's still doing them every now and then now but having a rather lucky escape. The rest of his drive was incredible, but I think given that could have ruined his race if there was contact in just a slightly different way, that was a really poor decision what he did. Pure luck for both drivers to get away without damage.

verstappen is quick enough for him to be able to overtake without needing to do these sort of moves a bit earlier most of the time. If he continues like this, he's still going to end up having some end badly. This is what makes me think he just isn't at hamilton's level yet. Speedwise, he's probably there by now but he needs to work on cleaner overtakes and defending if he expects them to always work.

To be fair, this is exactly what people used to say about Lewis during his first couple of years. That he's too aggressive and needs to show more patience, etc. I know Max has been in F1 for a few years now but he's still younger than Lewis was when he made his debut.

I think Max has shown clear signs of growth and maturity but he still has that sense of entitlement when he thinks the win is on. He's going for it no matter what and he will put his opponents in harm's way if he has to. Reminds me more of Marc Marquez to be honest. He will have to temper that and master his emotions if he wants to evolve to that highest state.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:20 pm 
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Alienturnedhuman wrote:
Ferrari have said they won't appeal, I think this the reason why:



Maybe someone should show him the Dijon 79 footage.

He might’ve conceded a corner but that was probably because he was being lapped at the time.

What a load of rot

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:24 pm 
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sandman1347 wrote:
sidders wrote:
BlackMan wrote:
Controversy aside, Honda is once again on the top step of the podium in F1. That deserves some respect.


Wonder how McLaren are feeling tonight?

Probably not too bad, considering they are best of the rest so far in 2019 after another solid double points finish. That said, yeah, they gave up works team status and Honda are in the ascendancy. Make no mistake; neither Renault nor even Ferrari or Mercedes can outspend Honda on engine development. I'd watch the Red Bull Honda team closely from now until the beginning of next year. They might be the team to overthrow Mercedes. Just our luck, it would happen in the last year of the technical era.

The thing is it's a bit like the chicken and the egg, it wasn't until they ditched Honda that they realised they had a problem with their car, some of the designers were telling porkies, they needed to do that to move forward with the car itself.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:46 am 
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mcdo wrote:
sidders wrote:
BlackMan wrote:
Controversy aside, Honda is once again on the top step of the podium in F1. That deserves some respect.


Wonder how McLaren are feeling tonight?

Pretty great I'd say. They had a fantastic result. Honda and McLaren just didn't work. They're both clearly much better off without each other


I think Mclaren lost free engines which is worth some 25 million $ ? and 100 or so million $ that Honda brings. I read some where Alonso had to take a big hit on his Salary as well, 50% less. Mclaren are doing well this year but Honda I am sure are definitely more happy with RBR, who obviously are far superior team to Mclaren.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:26 am 
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sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Remmirath wrote:
It seems like every time I start thinking that Max has turned the corner and matured into a more fair racer he does something like this. Otherwise a great race, though; plenty of close action, a real question of who's going to be where on the podium, and several good battles. It's nice to see McLaren doing reasonably well again also.


This is the problem i still see with Verstappen. He has done at least 2 moves this year that could have resulted in a puncture or worse. If he had waited a bit longer, he would have easily got by leclerc anyway. Verstappen had these risky moves have bad consequences last year at the start. He's still doing them every now and then now but having a rather lucky escape. The rest of his drive was incredible, but I think given that could have ruined his race if there was contact in just a slightly different way, that was a really poor decision what he did. Pure luck for both drivers to get away without damage.

verstappen is quick enough for him to be able to overtake without needing to do these sort of moves a bit earlier most of the time. If he continues like this, he's still going to end up having some end badly. This is what makes me think he just isn't at hamilton's level yet. Speedwise, he's probably there by now but he needs to work on cleaner overtakes and defending if he expects them to always work.

To be fair, this is exactly what people used to say about Lewis during his first couple of years. That he's too aggressive and needs to show more patience, etc. I know Max has been in F1 for a few years now but he's still younger than Lewis was when he made his debut.

I think Max has shown clear signs of growth and maturity but he still has that sense of entitlement when he thinks the win is on. He's going for it no matter what and he will put his opponents in harm's way if he has to. Reminds me more of Marc Marquez to be honest. He will have to temper that and master his emotions if he wants to evolve to that highest state.


That's a pretty fair comment. However, I don't think Hamilton was "dirty" as such, just being aggressive. Max strikes me as being "dirty" (much like Schumacher).


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:46 am 
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mcdo wrote:
That drive from Verstappen was peak Schumacher stuff


It reminded me of Ricciardo, Hungary 2014, hunting down the leaders in the last few laps

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:42 am 
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Mercedes-Benz wrote:
mcdo wrote:
sidders wrote:
BlackMan wrote:
Controversy aside, Honda is once again on the top step of the podium in F1. That deserves some respect.


Wonder how McLaren are feeling tonight?

Pretty great I'd say. They had a fantastic result. Honda and McLaren just didn't work. They're both clearly much better off without each other


I think Mclaren lost free engines which is worth some 25 million $ ? and 100 or so million $ that Honda brings. I read some where Alonso had to take a big hit on his Salary as well, 50% less. Mclaren are doing well this year but Honda I am sure are definitely more happy with RBR, who obviously are far superior team to Mclaren.

Do you think McLaren were happier with all the Honda money, an irate Alonso and getting knocked out in Q1?
I think they're happier now with the 4th best package, making Q3, double points finish, putting the works Renault team to shame

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:50 am 
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mcdo wrote:
Mercedes-Benz wrote:
mcdo wrote:
sidders wrote:
BlackMan wrote:
Controversy aside, Honda is once again on the top step of the podium in F1. That deserves some respect.


Wonder how McLaren are feeling tonight?

Pretty great I'd say. They had a fantastic result. Honda and McLaren just didn't work. They're both clearly much better off without each other


I think Mclaren lost free engines which is worth some 25 million $ ? and 100 or so million $ that Honda brings. I read some where Alonso had to take a big hit on his Salary as well, 50% less. Mclaren are doing well this year but Honda I am sure are definitely more happy with RBR, who obviously are far superior team to Mclaren.

Do you think McLaren were happier with all the Honda money, an irate Alonso and getting knocked out in Q1?
I think they're happier now with the 4th best package, making Q3, double points finish, putting the works Renault team to shame

I know I'm happier with it as a Macca fan! :thumbup: :]

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:43 am 
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Just much as Leclerc lost the win, it was Ferrari's loss as well. Not having a fresh hard tyre was a tall order for Leclerc where Verstappen stopped later & was on fresh hard tyres. Leclerc was the only one to race on worn out hards.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:05 am 
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F1 Racer wrote:
Invade wrote:

Some have commented that Verstappen's performance was Schumacher-esque - thoughts?


Pace-wise, very Schumacher-esque.

Ability to win by crashing into your opponent, very Schumacher-esque.

They crashed? Wow, must have been watching another race


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:13 am 
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pokerman wrote:
What planet is Brundle on saying that Vettel will still come out in front of Hamilton?

Hindsight is a bliss, but I giggled a bit with this one Poker!


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:34 pm 
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FormulaFun wrote:
Bottas is pathetic.

No defence

Wow, so quick to judge. The Dark Matter here is that he had engine overheating problems all day. Though to push through thermodynamic limits. One can only conclude that you belive that Rudolf Clausius and William Thomson, the 1st Baron Kelvin, are pathetic.

It's always the reasons we don't know about init.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:39 pm 
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dpastern wrote:
sandman1347 wrote:
TheGiantHogweed wrote:
Remmirath wrote:
It seems like every time I start thinking that Max has turned the corner and matured into a more fair racer he does something like this. Otherwise a great race, though; plenty of close action, a real question of who's going to be where on the podium, and several good battles. It's nice to see McLaren doing reasonably well again also.


This is the problem i still see with Verstappen. He has done at least 2 moves this year that could have resulted in a puncture or worse. If he had waited a bit longer, he would have easily got by leclerc anyway. Verstappen had these risky moves have bad consequences last year at the start. He's still doing them every now and then now but having a rather lucky escape. The rest of his drive was incredible, but I think given that could have ruined his race if there was contact in just a slightly different way, that was a really poor decision what he did. Pure luck for both drivers to get away without damage.

verstappen is quick enough for him to be able to overtake without needing to do these sort of moves a bit earlier most of the time. If he continues like this, he's still going to end up having some end badly. This is what makes me think he just isn't at hamilton's level yet. Speedwise, he's probably there by now but he needs to work on cleaner overtakes and defending if he expects them to always work.

To be fair, this is exactly what people used to say about Lewis during his first couple of years. That he's too aggressive and needs to show more patience, etc. I know Max has been in F1 for a few years now but he's still younger than Lewis was when he made his debut.

I think Max has shown clear signs of growth and maturity but he still has that sense of entitlement when he thinks the win is on. He's going for it no matter what and he will put his opponents in harm's way if he has to. Reminds me more of Marc Marquez to be honest. He will have to temper that and master his emotions if he wants to evolve to that highest state.


That's a pretty fair comment. However, I don't think Hamilton was "dirty" as such, just being aggressive. Max strikes me as being "dirty" (much like Schumacher).

Yes I would make that distinction as well.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:41 pm 
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UnlikeUday wrote:
Just much as Leclerc lost the win, it was Ferrari's loss as well. Not having a fresh hard tyre was a tall order for Leclerc where Verstappen stopped later & was on fresh hard tyres. Leclerc was the only one to race on worn out hards.

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So Leclerc had no fresh tyres for the race, that seems bad planning?

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2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 21st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:42 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:30 pm
Posts: 31524
Siao7 wrote:
pokerman wrote:
What planet is Brundle on saying that Vettel will still come out in front of Hamilton?

Hindsight is a bliss, but I giggled a bit with this one Poker!

It wasn't hindsight it was obvious.

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PF1 Pick 10 Competition

2013: 5th Place
2014: Champion
2015: 3rd Place
2016: 4th Place

2017: 9th Place
2018: 7th place
2019: Currently 21st

Wins: Canada 2018, Abu Dhabi 2017
Podiums: (8)


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:14 am
Posts: 921
Location: Stratford
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Just much as Leclerc lost the win, it was Ferrari's loss as well. Not having a fresh hard tyre was a tall order for Leclerc where Verstappen stopped later & was on fresh hard tyres. Leclerc was the only one to race on worn out hards.

Image
Source - http://www.imgur.com

So Leclerc had no fresh tyres for the race, that seems bad planning?


I've just looked back at the graphics that Uday posts after practice where you can see what tyres they used and Leclerc didn't use hards in any practice, or qualifying so I'm not sure when they became used?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:33 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:48 pm
Posts: 3176
Location: UK
pokerman wrote:
UnlikeUday wrote:
Just much as Leclerc lost the win, it was Ferrari's loss as well. Not having a fresh hard tyre was a tall order for Leclerc where Verstappen stopped later & was on fresh hard tyres. Leclerc was the only one to race on worn out hards.

Image
Source - http://www.imgur.com

So Leclerc had no fresh tyres for the race, that seems bad planning?

If that's true then I'd put this down as another Ferrari team blunder that's cost them a race win.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:15 pm 
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This tweet shows that the pre-race graphic showed Leclerc as having a new set of hards for the race, but the post-race graphic shows they were used. I guess that gives two options:

1. One of the graphics is wrong - as I posted earlier the practice/qualy graphics don't show him as having used hards at all so my guess if one graphic is wrong, it'd be the post-race one.
2. He used the hard tyres to drive to the grid from the pit lane - possible but I don't get why he'd do this

Ferrari didn't have a great day, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have such a bad day/weekend to put Leclerc on used hard tyres... (surely not :lol:)



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